Translation: You don't care that JJTrek sucks, you just want to start a fight.
You are pathetic.
You're not actually refuting his claims, you're just throwing personal attacks out at someone. Very classy. You're also putting words in someone else's mouth, which is not cool, ever.
You are the pathetic one here.
If you wish to argue, why don't you provide some actual arguments about *why* you think JJtrek sucks compared to TOS. TOS had "Spock's Brain", which everyone knows is the epitome of brilliant writing. Star Trek: The Search for God is possibly the most boring movie I can think of. Star Trek: TMP and it's uniforms, the too-tight uniforms that just oozed 1970s in all the worst possible ways that everyone involved hated, from the tailors to the actors.
If you wish to argue, provide actual legitimate arguments to back up your statements. Otherwise, go away and stop talking while you're ahead. Please.
Wrong. Yes, Trek has bad bits. JJTrek is concentrated bad with nothing to redeem it. You have offered nothing to support JJTrek or your point. You are simply being patronizing and insulting to literally everyone else here.
Please stop being a jerk.
Also, don't diss ST4. A lot of people, myself included, liked it a LOT.
Finally, your confrontational attitude isn't winning you any friends.
You and really, anyone else in this thread isn't really bringing any points about JJTrek being bad either except "ABRAMS MADE IT LENSFLARES HURRR" Hell, you just said it was concentrated bad with nothing to redeem it, that's not really an offer to support YOUR point of JJTrek being bad. Good points? I'll give a few, why not?
-Great actors who for the most part nailed their characters almost perfectly (Quinto's Spock, Yelchin's Chekov, to name a few).
-A fresh new influx of people who with hope will be converted to Trek fans.
-A step forward in technology. even in our new millenium the technology in TNG and forward is now kinda outdated. JJTrek pushed it forward, making this sci-fi, technologically-advanced serious LOOK advanced.
-Simple, yet engaging movies. Plotholes? Every movie has plotholes. Even TNG and TOS had plotholes.
-A new alternate universe means new things to explore in regards to plot. Blowing up Romulus and Remus (something you wouldn't do on the TV show or else the poisonous grognards would cry delicious tears) was a ballsy and IMO interesting move to take. It means THIS new universe will develop differently.
-The movie was ENTERTAINING. Sure, it had explosions and lots of action... but the pre-JJTrek movies with tons of action were bad, and the ones with little action (TMP) were bad too. At least ST09 was fun to watch, I felt I had to force myself to watch the entirely of TMP.
-Aesthetics. You may not like the new look of the Enterprise, but I do. It's clean, simple, beautiful, and looks more advanced than the TOS Connie which looked like it was about to fall apart. Even the new Klingon ships and their appearance in Into Darkness was amazing and refreshing. I also loved ST09's warp effect, it was, to this day, been the ONLY Warp animation that made me feel that ships were traveling faster than light. No glitter, no trails, just the ship stretching and a muted bass-ish boom. Glorious.
-Khan in Into Darkness is what Khan in WoK should've been. If you're going to introduce a bunch of humans that are stronger, smarter, and more capable in any way than your typical Starfleet officer, don't shove them all in a Miranda's bridge. Khan in Into Darkness single-handedly beat the TRIBBLE out of a bunch of Klingons. THAT Khan showed us he was augmented and thus stronger than most mundane people.
Also, I won't diss ST4 if you don't diss JJTrek movies. Deal?
Shatner was mostly good. Have you even watched TOS? 99% of Shatner parodies are based off one performance from "The Omega Glory" (which was a bad episode all around) (and was actually decent acting: how else could a Canadian get into such passion from quoting the US Constitution :P). True, his style wasn't exactly subtle, but that was how they rolled back then...and most importantly, that's how the character was written.
I don't think him speaking like he was holding back breaking wind was how the character was written... it was just the actor. Shatner got much better as time went by and it's pretty noticeable, but his work at TOS was a bit painful to watch. Some episdes in TOS were pretty brilliant, but some were just... yeah. TOS was all over the place and it turned me away. TNG was a bit more centralized and a bit more focused on what it was doing and for that it made me enjoy it.
You're not actually refuting his claims, you're just throwing personal attacks out at someone. Very classy. You're also putting words in someone else's mouth, which is not cool, ever.
You are the pathetic one here.
If you wish to argue, why don't you provide some actual arguments about *why* you think JJtrek sucks compared to TOS. TOS had "Spock's Brain", which everyone knows is the epitome of brilliant writing. Star Trek: The Search for God is possibly the most boring movie I can think of. Star Trek: TMP and it's uniforms, the too-tight uniforms that just oozed 1970s in all the worst possible ways that everyone involved hated, from the tailors to the actors.
If you wish to argue, provide actual legitimate arguments to back up your statements. Otherwise, go away and stop talking while you're ahead. Please.
Voyager had Threshold. TNG had A Matter of Honor.
Every Trek show has a stinker. TMP and ST5 were stinkers. All of JJTrek is one huge stinker.
I am not denying that there are some really terrible Trek movies. I am saying that this guy claiming without evidence that JJTrek is great, that the rest of Trek sucks, and that Trekkies are just a bunch of haters.
And yes, I get emotional about this. Furthermore, you aren't providing any evidence for any of your points, and you're using ad hominems as well.
I'm going out to watch Godzilla. You will probably take this to mean that you have free reign to continue this "debate", which you have plenty of justifications, rights, and reasons to do. I will not respond to any further posts on this thread even after I get back, because I am bored with this same, rehashed argument.
-A step forward in technology. even in our new millenium the technology in TNG and forward is now kinda outdated. JJTrek pushed it forward, making this sci-fi, technologically-advanced serious LOOK advanced.
I disagree. It looks tacky and computer-generated. But that's a matter of opinion.
-A new alternate universe means new things to explore in regards to plot. Blowing up Romulus and Remus (something you wouldn't do on the TV show or else the poisonous grognards would cry delicious tears) was a ballsy and IMO interesting move to take. It means THIS new universe will develop differently.
It was a dumb and weaksauce move, but at least it worked out well. Blowing Vulcan was just weak.
-The movie was ENTERTAINING. Sure, it had explosions and lots of action... but the pre-JJTrek movies with tons of action were bad, and the ones with little action (TMP) were bad too. At least ST09 was fun to watch, I felt I had to force myself to watch the entirely of TMP.
A matter of opinion, which I disagree with. JJTrek 2009 was a miserably boring movie, and Into Darkness was just...pathetic.
-Aesthetics. You may not like the new look of the Enterprise, but I do. It's clean, simple, beautiful, and looks more advanced than the TOS Connie which looked like it was about to fall apart. Even the new Klingon ships and their appearance in Into Darkness was amazing and refreshing. I also loved ST09's warp effect, it was, to this day, been the ONLY Warp animation that made me feel that ships were traveling faster than light. No glitter, no trails, just the ship stretching and a muted bass-ish boom. Glorious.
I disagree with this entirely. The aesthetics were ugly and obviously computerized.
-Khan in Into Darkness is what Khan in WoK should've been. If you're going to introduce a bunch of humans that are stronger, smarter, and more capable in any way than your typical Starfleet officer, don't shove them all in a Miranda's bridge. Khan in Into Darkness single-handedly beat the TRIBBLE out of a bunch of Klingons. THAT Khan showed us he was augmented and thus stronger than most mundane people.
OK, JJTrek has one good thing. Even though JJKhan didn't quote Moby **** even ONCE.
So, Worffan, why is it that when someone else states an opinion, it's "just" an opinion, but when you state one, it's solid fact?
And let's not get started on plot holes and bad astronomy in Trek, or we're going to be here all day...
Good points. I do have a problem with misstating opinions in a way that implies them to be facts. I have been working on that and will continue to do so, but I would also like to note that people who use that argument on me have often misrepresented their own opinions as facts earlier in those debates.
And jonsills. Trek may have bad astronomy, and the format necessitates a certain amount of plot holes (you cannot explain literally every possible option for solving the Big Problem Of The Week in one hour or so), but JJTrek has worse astronomy, bigger plot holes, and even worse plotting (JJKirk was going to SHOOT ANTIMATTER WEAPONS AT AN INHABITED PLANET!!!!!) and openly contradicts canon in ways that can't be explained by the alternate universe thing.
Written on my shiny new smartphone while my buddy drives. Not responsible for any spelling errors (that's autocorrect's fault).
So, Worffan, why is it that when someone else states an opinion, it's "just" an opinion, but when you state one, it's solid fact?
And let's not get started on plot holes and bad astronomy in Trek, or we're going to be here all day...
For starters there is the magic torpedo powerful enough to either terraform an entire planet or create an entire star system from a nebula.
And that the entire plot of that film hinges on the Reliant crew being unable to freaking count.
Or that a planet of galactic controversy is only being guarded by a dinky little science ship captained by a guy who won't even go to the toilet without permission from Starfleet.
I still haven't seen the second one yet and I have had multiple chances to borrow it free, and won't bother with the 3rd one either. I don't agree with blowing up Vulcan and Romulus and am against reboots anyway so just waiting for JJ verse to end and something else to come out.
More on-topic, I do have to say that my objections to ST09 are more to do with the writing than the direction (with the exception of the lens flare and putting Communications in a brewery); haven't seen STID yet, but it's no Netflix now, so I probably will soon.
And half the writing team was Robert Orci. (Alex Kurtzman was the other half; JJ Abrams had no writing credit at all.)
This does not fill me with confidence for the next one. On the other manipulatory appendage, at least it's not Rick Berman...
More on-topic, I do have to say that my objections to ST09 are more to do with the writing than the direction (with the exception of the lens flare and putting Communications in a brewery); haven't seen STID yet, but it's no Netflix now, so I probably will soon.
And half the writing team was Robert Orci. (Alex Kurtzman was the other half; JJ Abrams had no writing credit at all.)
This does not fill me with confidence for the next one. On the other manipulatory appendage, at least it's not Rick Berman...
They had plans for a proper engine room that looked something like the one from the TMP and TWOK, but ran out of money. So they used a Budweiser brewery instead.
The one from Into Darkness was at least an actual scientific device on the outside.
I thought the warp core and engineering looked pretty robust even when they were built at a brewery and fusion reactor or something. I prefer it to the lego-like plasticky warp core of TN/DS9/VOY.
-Khan in Into Darkness is what Khan in WoK should've been. If you're going to introduce a bunch of humans that are stronger, smarter, and more capable in any way than your typical Starfleet officer, don't shove them all in a Miranda's bridge. Khan in Into Darkness single-handedly beat the TRIBBLE out of a bunch of Klingons. THAT Khan showed us he was augmented and thus stronger than most mundane people.
I'm sorry, but I have to put the kibosh on that blatant lie. ID Khan was the crappiest and worst villain to ever grace Star Trek, EVER. People assume that just because Cumberbatch is in something, his characters are the greatest things ever. That's why those people keep trying to force him into every aspect of nerd/geek culture. "The Next Doctor shoulf be Cumberbatch!" "Let's have Cumberbatch play Admiral Thrawn!" "Cumberbatch for Neltharion in the WoW movie!"
NO. Dude plays the first British Sherlock Holmes in years, that does NOT make him freaking Johnny Depp of all nerdom. His Khan was a generic action supervillain and it was so far out of left field that he had to actually SHOUT "MY. NAME. IS. KHAAAAAAAN!" in order for anyone to actually get who his character was. There was more to Khan than brute strength. He was elegant. He was intellectual. He was an enlightened man who found a worthy adversary in James T. Kirk and it INFURIATED him. Here was some normal dude, no augments, no boosts, all natural who bested him. That would TRIBBLE me off if I was a Khan. JJTrek Khan just blew things up for no reason other than "because bad guy". It was a bad Khan and I will not let Cumberbatch's fame blind me to that hack job character. It's like reverse Wesley Crusher Syndrome. We used to think that because Wesley was annoying, Wil was annoying. But we learned that was not true. Same thing here. Cumberbatch is a nice guy, but JJTrek Khan sucked.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"
I'm sorry, but I have to put the kibosh on that blatant lie. ID Khan was the crappiest and worst villain to ever grace Star Trek, EVER. People assume that just because Cumberbatch is in something, his characters are the greatest things ever. That's why those people keep trying to force him into every aspect of nerd/geek culture. "The Next Doctor shoulf be Cumberbatch!" "Let's have Cumberbatch play Admiral Thrawn!" "Cumberbatch for Neltharion in the WoW movie!"
NO. Dude plays the first British Sherlock Holmes in years, that does NOT make him freaking Johnny Depp of all nerdom. His Khan was a generic action supervillain and it was so far out of left field that he had to actually SHOUT "MY. NAME. IS. KHAAAAAAAN!" in order for anyone to actually get who his character was. There was more to Khan than brute strength. He was elegant. He was intellectual. He was an enlightened man who found a worthy adversary in James T. Kirk and it INFURIATED him. Here was some normal dude, no augments, no boosts, all natural who bested him. That would TRIBBLE me off if I was a Khan. JJTrek Khan just blew things up for no reason other than "because bad guy". It was a bad Khan and I will not let Cumberbatch's fame blind me to that hack job character. It's like reverse Wesley Crusher Syndrome. We used to think that because Wesley was annoying, Wil was annoying. But we learned that was not true. Same thing here. Cumberbatch is a nice guy, but JJTrek Khan sucked.
I never, ever, EVER mentioned his name in my post. He did a good job of the role, but I do NOT give him the credit for Khan in ID. Again, like I said, if you're going to put an augmented human that is superior to a normal human in every way possible, literally, you don't shove a bunch of 'em in a Miranda and shoot an Enterprise, you make them kick the living shtako out of everything. In this, Into Darkness succeeded. We SEE Khan's strength and tenacity in that moment where he kicks the TRIBBLE out of the Klingons, and we see his cunning throughout the movie.
I didn't mention Cumberbatch a single time in that post. You don't like him as an actor, and that's fine. That doesn't mean he didn't do a good role as Khan or that the character of Khan was well-written in Into Darkness. The Khan in Into Darkness kicked the TRIBBLE out of the Klingons because he knew that the Federation kept those missile pods intact. During the rest of the movie, he didn't really blow up anything other than play a mindgame with Kirk.
I can't help but notice you didn't actually give examples as to *why* Khan in ID sucked, you just went off on a rant about how much you hate Cumberbatch, which is... not very nice, actually, nor is it relevant your point.
Khan in TWOK just sort of spouted a bunch of quotes from various ancient works and pissed off Kirk. Then he died.
Khan in ID was clearly in control of the entire situation. He could have taken the Enterprise without breaking a sweat (don't try to argue this because you know it's completely true), yet he didn't. Why, you might ask? Because he knew he needed Kirk to get what he needed.
In the Prime universe, Kirk was the first person Khan saw in 200 years. He was the man who freed Khan, and he is the man who bested Khan and imprisoned him and his people on Ceti Alpha V.
In this alternate universe, Kirk is simply another obstacle and a chess piece between him and his people's freedom.
Cute that you went to the Keaton Batman. Also lets us know you are a Batfleck fan.
Go sit in the corner and think about what you've done. :mad:
Affleck for Batman? No way if you ask me. But considering who has gone as Batman after Keaton and before Bale? Well, we can't go worse. Maybe he'll surprise us. The Batman movie franchise underwent a very dark time when Keaton was done and until Bale came in. Maybe it's that time again, maybe not :cool:
May as well make a post. I'm honestly pretty neutral about JJTrek. I'm not saying it's ****, nor am I saying it's good, I am just saying I don't have any strong feelings on it.
I admit, for a couple years I really didn't like them resetting the universe basically. But recently I've come to terms about it, as it gave them a chance to return to the roots as it were, along with not having to worry about everything that'd happened so far. It cleared the skies as it were. Wanna know who else is doing that?
Star Wars.
They said that they are basically ignoring everything in the EU that didn't directly have GL's hand in it. Does it negate good things like Admiral Thrawn? Yes. Does it negate bad things like Dark Empire? Yes. But the point is that it lets them be freed from the chains of the EU and do what they want to without having to worry about ever little detail.
Honestly, I think it's a good thing for both them and the franchise. It means that those who like it can write and do as they wish with effectively the 'old canon', because now there's less to worry about working around. I'm not saying that they should just go hog wild, but they aren't bound.
Same thing goes for Star Trek. After Nemesis, and now that JJTrek is a thing, the 'Prime universe' is allowed to go on it's own. You have the novels like Destiny and Typhon pact going in one direction, and then STO itself going in another (and somewhat based off of JJTrek in terms of dealing with Hobus and such). It's clear that we won't be seeing anything movie or TV-wise from the 'Prime universe' again. And if we did, I have a feeling it'd do it's own thing, and more or less ignore both STO and the novels.
Point is that JJtrek did it's own thing, at least in the first movie, because it meant they wouldn't be tied down so heavily to the years and years of stuff before it. Hell, comic books are notorious for this, pulling whole universe 'reboots' just for the sake of attracting new customers and resetting canon to let all the characters start over.
That said, I have a big beef with ID. Because it didn't do that. It had to rehash a story we'd already seen: Khan. We didn't need Khan. Khan should've been a book, or a series of books. Or part of a TV show, not a movie, if they did Khan at all. It wasn't really it's own story because of that. Could've been anything else. At least the first movie did do that. Like it or not, it DID tell it's own story.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
I never, ever, EVER mentioned his name in my post. He did a good job of the role, but I do NOT give him the credit for Khan in ID. Again, like I said, if you're going to put an augmented human that is superior to a normal human in every way possible, literally, you don't shove a bunch of 'em in a Miranda and shoot an Enterprise, you make them kick the living shtako out of everything. In this, Into Darkness succeeded. We SEE Khan's strength and tenacity in that moment where he kicks the TRIBBLE out of the Klingons, and we see his cunning throughout the movie.
I didn't mention Cumberbatch a single time in that post. You don't like him as an actor, and that's fine. That doesn't mean he didn't do a good role as Khan or that the character of Khan was well-written in Into Darkness. The Khan in Into Darkness kicked the TRIBBLE out of the Klingons because he knew that the Federation kept those missile pods intact. During the rest of the movie, he didn't really blow up anything other than play a mindgame with Kirk.
BULL. TRIBBLE. He stole the biggest dreadnought in the fleet, blew apart a bunch of buildings with a gun ship AND a micro hydrogen activated ring bomb and almost blew up the Enterprise. The ONLY two times where he wasn't blowing stuff up was when he was captured. Do not sit here and lie to me about that. I saw ID.
Khan was not well written and I have no problem with Cumberbatch. I think he's a fine actor, but I don't want him shoved into every facet of geek culture because his Sherlock is not a drugged up crazy person on CBS. ID turned Khan from a vengeful, intelligent villain into a freaking shoot first, be clever never faceless terrorist who couldn't think his way out of a black hole. He didn't play mind games with Kirk. He just refrained from pointing to the admiral and say "He made me do it!" and laugh.
Wrath Khan was a genius and a true testament of the idea of superior lifeform. Darkness Khan was a freaking half arsed attempt to be him.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"
I can't help but notice you didn't actually give examples as to *why* Khan in ID sucked, you just went off on a rant about how much you hate Cumberbatch, which is... not very nice, actually, nor is it relevant your point.
Khan in TWOK just sort of spouted a bunch of quotes from various ancient works and pissed off Kirk. Then he died.
Khan in ID was clearly in control of the entire situation. He could have taken the Enterprise without breaking a sweat (don't try to argue this because you know it's completely true), yet he didn't. Why, you might ask? Because he knew he needed Kirk to get what he needed.
In the Prime universe, Kirk was the first person Khan saw in 200 years. He was the man who freed Khan, and he is the man who bested Khan and imprisoned him and his people on Ceti Alpha V.
In this alternate universe, Kirk is simply another obstacle and a chess piece between him and his people's freedom.
I did explain it at the end. Don't stop at the first paragraph, actually read the entire freaking thing.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"
Comments
You're not actually refuting his claims, you're just throwing personal attacks out at someone. Very classy. You're also putting words in someone else's mouth, which is not cool, ever.
You are the pathetic one here.
If you wish to argue, why don't you provide some actual arguments about *why* you think JJtrek sucks compared to TOS. TOS had "Spock's Brain", which everyone knows is the epitome of brilliant writing. Star Trek: The Search for God is possibly the most boring movie I can think of. Star Trek: TMP and it's uniforms, the too-tight uniforms that just oozed 1970s in all the worst possible ways that everyone involved hated, from the tailors to the actors.
If you wish to argue, provide actual legitimate arguments to back up your statements. Otherwise, go away and stop talking while you're ahead. Please.
You and really, anyone else in this thread isn't really bringing any points about JJTrek being bad either except "ABRAMS MADE IT LENSFLARES HURRR" Hell, you just said it was concentrated bad with nothing to redeem it, that's not really an offer to support YOUR point of JJTrek being bad. Good points? I'll give a few, why not?
-Great actors who for the most part nailed their characters almost perfectly (Quinto's Spock, Yelchin's Chekov, to name a few).
-A fresh new influx of people who with hope will be converted to Trek fans.
-A step forward in technology. even in our new millenium the technology in TNG and forward is now kinda outdated. JJTrek pushed it forward, making this sci-fi, technologically-advanced serious LOOK advanced.
-Simple, yet engaging movies. Plotholes? Every movie has plotholes. Even TNG and TOS had plotholes.
-A new alternate universe means new things to explore in regards to plot. Blowing up Romulus and Remus (something you wouldn't do on the TV show or else the poisonous grognards would cry delicious tears) was a ballsy and IMO interesting move to take. It means THIS new universe will develop differently.
-The movie was ENTERTAINING. Sure, it had explosions and lots of action... but the pre-JJTrek movies with tons of action were bad, and the ones with little action (TMP) were bad too. At least ST09 was fun to watch, I felt I had to force myself to watch the entirely of TMP.
-Aesthetics. You may not like the new look of the Enterprise, but I do. It's clean, simple, beautiful, and looks more advanced than the TOS Connie which looked like it was about to fall apart. Even the new Klingon ships and their appearance in Into Darkness was amazing and refreshing. I also loved ST09's warp effect, it was, to this day, been the ONLY Warp animation that made me feel that ships were traveling faster than light. No glitter, no trails, just the ship stretching and a muted bass-ish boom. Glorious.
-Khan in Into Darkness is what Khan in WoK should've been. If you're going to introduce a bunch of humans that are stronger, smarter, and more capable in any way than your typical Starfleet officer, don't shove them all in a Miranda's bridge. Khan in Into Darkness single-handedly beat the TRIBBLE out of a bunch of Klingons. THAT Khan showed us he was augmented and thus stronger than most mundane people.
Also, I won't diss ST4 if you don't diss JJTrek movies. Deal?
Lastly, I'm not here to win any friends.
I don't think him speaking like he was holding back breaking wind was how the character was written... it was just the actor. Shatner got much better as time went by and it's pretty noticeable, but his work at TOS was a bit painful to watch. Some episdes in TOS were pretty brilliant, but some were just... yeah. TOS was all over the place and it turned me away. TNG was a bit more centralized and a bit more focused on what it was doing and for that it made me enjoy it.
Voyager had Threshold. TNG had A Matter of Honor.
Every Trek show has a stinker. TMP and ST5 were stinkers. All of JJTrek is one huge stinker.
I am not denying that there are some really terrible Trek movies. I am saying that this guy claiming without evidence that JJTrek is great, that the rest of Trek sucks, and that Trekkies are just a bunch of haters.
And yes, I get emotional about this. Furthermore, you aren't providing any evidence for any of your points, and you're using ad hominems as well.
I'm going out to watch Godzilla. You will probably take this to mean that you have free reign to continue this "debate", which you have plenty of justifications, rights, and reasons to do. I will not respond to any further posts on this thread even after I get back, because I am bored with this same, rehashed argument.
Then you won't make any.
And let's not get started on plot holes and bad astronomy in Trek, or we're going to be here all day...
Must...control...urge..to...respond...
Good points. I do have a problem with misstating opinions in a way that implies them to be facts. I have been working on that and will continue to do so, but I would also like to note that people who use that argument on me have often misrepresented their own opinions as facts earlier in those debates.
And jonsills. Trek may have bad astronomy, and the format necessitates a certain amount of plot holes (you cannot explain literally every possible option for solving the Big Problem Of The Week in one hour or so), but JJTrek has worse astronomy, bigger plot holes, and even worse plotting (JJKirk was going to SHOOT ANTIMATTER WEAPONS AT AN INHABITED PLANET!!!!!) and openly contradicts canon in ways that can't be explained by the alternate universe thing.
Written on my shiny new smartphone while my buddy drives. Not responsible for any spelling errors (that's autocorrect's fault).
For starters there is the magic torpedo powerful enough to either terraform an entire planet or create an entire star system from a nebula.
And that the entire plot of that film hinges on the Reliant crew being unable to freaking count.
Or that a planet of galactic controversy is only being guarded by a dinky little science ship captained by a guy who won't even go to the toilet without permission from Starfleet.
I'm done guys really I swear I am done with this conversation.
You're wrong. How do I know? ST09 got me into Star Trek.
And half the writing team was Robert Orci. (Alex Kurtzman was the other half; JJ Abrams had no writing credit at all.)
This does not fill me with confidence for the next one. On the other manipulatory appendage, at least it's not Rick Berman...
The one from Into Darkness was at least an actual scientific device on the outside.
I'm sorry, but I have to put the kibosh on that blatant lie. ID Khan was the crappiest and worst villain to ever grace Star Trek, EVER. People assume that just because Cumberbatch is in something, his characters are the greatest things ever. That's why those people keep trying to force him into every aspect of nerd/geek culture. "The Next Doctor shoulf be Cumberbatch!" "Let's have Cumberbatch play Admiral Thrawn!" "Cumberbatch for Neltharion in the WoW movie!"
NO. Dude plays the first British Sherlock Holmes in years, that does NOT make him freaking Johnny Depp of all nerdom. His Khan was a generic action supervillain and it was so far out of left field that he had to actually SHOUT "MY. NAME. IS. KHAAAAAAAN!" in order for anyone to actually get who his character was. There was more to Khan than brute strength. He was elegant. He was intellectual. He was an enlightened man who found a worthy adversary in James T. Kirk and it INFURIATED him. Here was some normal dude, no augments, no boosts, all natural who bested him. That would TRIBBLE me off if I was a Khan. JJTrek Khan just blew things up for no reason other than "because bad guy". It was a bad Khan and I will not let Cumberbatch's fame blind me to that hack job character. It's like reverse Wesley Crusher Syndrome. We used to think that because Wesley was annoying, Wil was annoying. But we learned that was not true. Same thing here. Cumberbatch is a nice guy, but JJTrek Khan sucked.
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
I never, ever, EVER mentioned his name in my post. He did a good job of the role, but I do NOT give him the credit for Khan in ID. Again, like I said, if you're going to put an augmented human that is superior to a normal human in every way possible, literally, you don't shove a bunch of 'em in a Miranda and shoot an Enterprise, you make them kick the living shtako out of everything. In this, Into Darkness succeeded. We SEE Khan's strength and tenacity in that moment where he kicks the TRIBBLE out of the Klingons, and we see his cunning throughout the movie.
I didn't mention Cumberbatch a single time in that post. You don't like him as an actor, and that's fine. That doesn't mean he didn't do a good role as Khan or that the character of Khan was well-written in Into Darkness. The Khan in Into Darkness kicked the TRIBBLE out of the Klingons because he knew that the Federation kept those missile pods intact. During the rest of the movie, he didn't really blow up anything other than play a mindgame with Kirk.
Khan in TWOK just sort of spouted a bunch of quotes from various ancient works and pissed off Kirk. Then he died.
Khan in ID was clearly in control of the entire situation. He could have taken the Enterprise without breaking a sweat (don't try to argue this because you know it's completely true), yet he didn't. Why, you might ask? Because he knew he needed Kirk to get what he needed.
In the Prime universe, Kirk was the first person Khan saw in 200 years. He was the man who freed Khan, and he is the man who bested Khan and imprisoned him and his people on Ceti Alpha V.
In this alternate universe, Kirk is simply another obstacle and a chess piece between him and his people's freedom.
Affleck for Batman? No way if you ask me. But considering who has gone as Batman after Keaton and before Bale? Well, we can't go worse. Maybe he'll surprise us. The Batman movie franchise underwent a very dark time when Keaton was done and until Bale came in. Maybe it's that time again, maybe not :cool:
I admit, for a couple years I really didn't like them resetting the universe basically. But recently I've come to terms about it, as it gave them a chance to return to the roots as it were, along with not having to worry about everything that'd happened so far. It cleared the skies as it were. Wanna know who else is doing that?
Star Wars.
They said that they are basically ignoring everything in the EU that didn't directly have GL's hand in it. Does it negate good things like Admiral Thrawn? Yes. Does it negate bad things like Dark Empire? Yes. But the point is that it lets them be freed from the chains of the EU and do what they want to without having to worry about ever little detail.
Honestly, I think it's a good thing for both them and the franchise. It means that those who like it can write and do as they wish with effectively the 'old canon', because now there's less to worry about working around. I'm not saying that they should just go hog wild, but they aren't bound.
Same thing goes for Star Trek. After Nemesis, and now that JJTrek is a thing, the 'Prime universe' is allowed to go on it's own. You have the novels like Destiny and Typhon pact going in one direction, and then STO itself going in another (and somewhat based off of JJTrek in terms of dealing with Hobus and such). It's clear that we won't be seeing anything movie or TV-wise from the 'Prime universe' again. And if we did, I have a feeling it'd do it's own thing, and more or less ignore both STO and the novels.
Point is that JJtrek did it's own thing, at least in the first movie, because it meant they wouldn't be tied down so heavily to the years and years of stuff before it. Hell, comic books are notorious for this, pulling whole universe 'reboots' just for the sake of attracting new customers and resetting canon to let all the characters start over.
That said, I have a big beef with ID. Because it didn't do that. It had to rehash a story we'd already seen: Khan. We didn't need Khan. Khan should've been a book, or a series of books. Or part of a TV show, not a movie, if they did Khan at all. It wasn't really it's own story because of that. Could've been anything else. At least the first movie did do that. Like it or not, it DID tell it's own story.
BULL. TRIBBLE. He stole the biggest dreadnought in the fleet, blew apart a bunch of buildings with a gun ship AND a micro hydrogen activated ring bomb and almost blew up the Enterprise. The ONLY two times where he wasn't blowing stuff up was when he was captured. Do not sit here and lie to me about that. I saw ID.
Khan was not well written and I have no problem with Cumberbatch. I think he's a fine actor, but I don't want him shoved into every facet of geek culture because his Sherlock is not a drugged up crazy person on CBS. ID turned Khan from a vengeful, intelligent villain into a freaking shoot first, be clever never faceless terrorist who couldn't think his way out of a black hole. He didn't play mind games with Kirk. He just refrained from pointing to the admiral and say "He made me do it!" and laugh.
Wrath Khan was a genius and a true testament of the idea of superior lifeform. Darkness Khan was a freaking half arsed attempt to be him.
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
I did explain it at the end. Don't stop at the first paragraph, actually read the entire freaking thing.
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP