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A solution to the Constitution-class question (and more).
superfort29
Member Posts: 12 Arc User
An oft heard refrain from the Star Trek Online community is the ability to use the iconic Constitution-class cruiser in end game content. This has been addressed multiple times in the past five years (see end of this post for every statement Cryptic has made on the subject). However, I believe that the solution may have already been presented, offhandedly, in the May 2012 edition of Ask Cryptic:
http://community.arcgames.com/en/news/star-trek-online/detail/1050070-ask-cryptic_-may-2012
While this was by no means a promise, guarantee, or contract, it brilliantly gives us the framework for how the beloved Constitution-class could make a comeback to relevance in STOs end game. We have already seen this mechanic in action, through the Atmosphere Assault and Vault Shuttle Event PvE scenarios. Imagine if you will, a setting where your primary vessel is need to hold the line against the current seasons enemy (in the more than capable hands of your first officer), but your commanding presence is required elsewhere. Perhaps a setting not so crucial to the fate of the galaxy; visiting a backwater outpost, low level negotiations with a factions member species, or a routine system patrol. Something within the canonical abilities of a Tier 2 ship in a Tier 5 universe.
This could be even used to help further CBSs vision of the Constitution-classs abilities by giving these T2 ships powerful T3 or T4 enemies to fight. Certainly these little ships would be no match for a Voth Citadel Dreadnaught, or a Borg Cube or anything that would be considered end game. But what about a Ktinga battle cruiser or a Mogai heavy warbird? The dramatic difference in power between these vessels could be illustrated by their status as boss level enemies for the Constitution. Imagine a battle on par with players chasing Donatra in the Khitomer Vortex Special Task Force mission, but scaled down to the equivalent firepower levels appropriate for a T2 ship. Cryptic has already given us a taste of how well this can work in the Cardassian Struggle arc mission Operation Gamma. (Spoiler Alert!) The players shuttle is intercepted by a JemHadar attack ship (you remember those, the little things that tend to be the first casualties of your Fire At Will ability), and it proves to be quite a challenge for your little craft (end spoiler!). We even have a precedent from the show as to the feasibility of this idea from The Next Generation's S2E21 "Peak Performance", in which Commander Riker takes the old, mothballed Constellation-class USS Hathaway against the flagship of the Federation, with moderate success through clever tactics.
Now this is all well and good mechanically, but what incentive does Cryptic have for implementing something like this? One word: refits! Those beautiful, slightly-more-powerful additions that were made for each tier of starship such as the Exeter-class, or the Gladius-class. I have nothing other than anecdotal evidence, but I suspect that these refits have not been a great financial success for Cryptic as they have really served no other point than a potential console for players end game vessels. The leveling experience is far too quick to justify the purchase of one of these starships, and I would suspect that the majority of player who choose to spend money on this game are the ones who are also heavily involved in end game content. So why not make these refits a part of that end game?
In summary, the addition of end game content specifically designed around lower tier ships would be a win for everyone involved. Player would be the ability to fly their beloved Constitution-classes in a meaningful way. CBS would be able to reinforce their idea of the Constitution-class as a non-competitor in the 2410 environment, as illustrated by enemy selection and balancing. And finally, Cryptic could potentially increase sales of already existing assets by providing a context for their use.
TL;DR Lower tier PvE queues like shuttles.
January 7th, 2009:
Q: Is there a way to keep a ship you like and be able to upgrade it to be the equivalent to your avatar's level? For instance, if I want to stay with a Defiant class but my character is at Sovereign class level - is there a way I can get it to match a bigger ships capability?
A: The answer here is yes and no. Youll start with a Tier 1 ship and you can certainly upgrade it and trick it out so that its comparable to a mid-level Tier 2 ship. However, a top of the line Tier 2 ship is going to be much better than even the most tricked out Tier 1. It has to do with growth capacity. Theres just more room for growth built into the higher tier ships. Of course, your skills and the skills of your bridge crew also affect how much you can do with your ship.
However, you do get to keep your ships. So, if you find yourself in a situation where an earlier ship would be more useful, you can switch back to it for that encounter. For example, you might want to shift back to a smaller and more maneuverable ship for running a blockade.
http://community.arcgames.com/en/news/star-trek-online/detail/1059790-ask-cryptic-_january-7_-2009_
January 2011:
Q: Captain-Lang: Will we have refit for lower tier ship such as a miranda refit?
A: While we do not currently intend to add specific lower tier refits into the ship requisition stores, a future goal of the crafting system is to allow players to outfit and refit their own starships. Under that new system, I would hope that you could take a Miranda class ship and using a budget, refit the class to be something more appropriate to modern times. We're a ways off from having details on this type of feature, but I can say we want to see refits in the future.
http://community.arcgames.com/en/news/star-trek-online/detail/1059520-ask-cryptic_-january-2011
April 2011
Q: DecadeComplete How's the T5 Constitution Refit-Refit that was in a recent engineering report doing? Will there ever be a way to purchase "Ship Slots" and "Costume Slots" in game with say 1Mil EC or so?
A: We are working to add more variations to existing ships for both factions and one of the ships they are working on is an additional Constitution refit; however there has been no confirmation that this is a top tier ship. Geko can add more details as we get closer to Season 4 release, but for now, I can only say that we are working with CBS on an alternative refit design.
As far as making ship and costume slots available for in game currency, we are considering finding a way we could offer them for in game currency, or in the case of ship slots, have the ships come with slots as part of the purchase price.
http://community.arcgames.com/en/news/star-trek-online/detail/1059490-ask-cryptic_-april-2011
May 2011:
Q: dorko1 I know that the refit is still a touchy subject, but could you guys shed any light on what might happen? I understand that there should be obvious misgivings about the idea of the Constitution class outmatching a vessel 200 yrs new and twice its size, but a replica that's really more of an Excalibur class vessel might be able to add something to the mix.
A: You are correct that it is a touchy subject amongst the community and based on the discussions we've had with CBS about ships, I don't think we're going to put a high-end Constitution Class refit into the game. You can still have a lower tier TOS Connie use the Squad Leader feature to bring their stats up to a higher level, but the odds of an end game Connie refit is a long shot.
http://community.arcgames.com/en/news/star-trek-online/detail/1059480-ask-cryptic_-may-2011
November 2012:
Q: (thmichael) Are you going to implement the Ambassador Class at some point? And would it be possible to implement the Old Constitution Class for higher ranks?
Dstahl: Yes. The Ambassador class is coming in 2013. CBS is still pretty adamant about the Old Connie not being an end game ship, but you never know what can happen as time rolls by.
http://community.arcgames.com/en/news/star-trek-online/detail/1020330-ask-cryptic_-november-2012
Q: (Commadore_Bob) Have you considered adding tier-based STFs or Fleet Actions? For example, a TOS version of Sacrifice of Angels where 20 Tier-2 ships take on a fleet of period specific enemies?
A: Not exactly, but we are making a new challenges for Season 6 that do require players to be at Max level to take on challenging objectives. It brings up a good point that we need a way to limit the types of ships that are allowed in a specific mission. Once we get that tech implemented, we could do something like you describe, as well as make it easier to swap in and out of your shuttle by designating this is my default small craft, this is my default T2 ship, etc
A: Not exactly, but we are making a new challenges for Season 6 that do require players to be at Max level to take on challenging objectives. It brings up a good point that we need a way to limit the types of ships that are allowed in a specific mission. Once we get that tech implemented, we could do something like you describe, as well as make it easier to swap in and out of your shuttle by designating this is my default small craft, this is my default T2 ship, etc
http://community.arcgames.com/en/news/star-trek-online/detail/1050070-ask-cryptic_-may-2012
While this was by no means a promise, guarantee, or contract, it brilliantly gives us the framework for how the beloved Constitution-class could make a comeback to relevance in STOs end game. We have already seen this mechanic in action, through the Atmosphere Assault and Vault Shuttle Event PvE scenarios. Imagine if you will, a setting where your primary vessel is need to hold the line against the current seasons enemy (in the more than capable hands of your first officer), but your commanding presence is required elsewhere. Perhaps a setting not so crucial to the fate of the galaxy; visiting a backwater outpost, low level negotiations with a factions member species, or a routine system patrol. Something within the canonical abilities of a Tier 2 ship in a Tier 5 universe.
This could be even used to help further CBSs vision of the Constitution-classs abilities by giving these T2 ships powerful T3 or T4 enemies to fight. Certainly these little ships would be no match for a Voth Citadel Dreadnaught, or a Borg Cube or anything that would be considered end game. But what about a Ktinga battle cruiser or a Mogai heavy warbird? The dramatic difference in power between these vessels could be illustrated by their status as boss level enemies for the Constitution. Imagine a battle on par with players chasing Donatra in the Khitomer Vortex Special Task Force mission, but scaled down to the equivalent firepower levels appropriate for a T2 ship. Cryptic has already given us a taste of how well this can work in the Cardassian Struggle arc mission Operation Gamma. (Spoiler Alert!) The players shuttle is intercepted by a JemHadar attack ship (you remember those, the little things that tend to be the first casualties of your Fire At Will ability), and it proves to be quite a challenge for your little craft (end spoiler!). We even have a precedent from the show as to the feasibility of this idea from The Next Generation's S2E21 "Peak Performance", in which Commander Riker takes the old, mothballed Constellation-class USS Hathaway against the flagship of the Federation, with moderate success through clever tactics.
Now this is all well and good mechanically, but what incentive does Cryptic have for implementing something like this? One word: refits! Those beautiful, slightly-more-powerful additions that were made for each tier of starship such as the Exeter-class, or the Gladius-class. I have nothing other than anecdotal evidence, but I suspect that these refits have not been a great financial success for Cryptic as they have really served no other point than a potential console for players end game vessels. The leveling experience is far too quick to justify the purchase of one of these starships, and I would suspect that the majority of player who choose to spend money on this game are the ones who are also heavily involved in end game content. So why not make these refits a part of that end game?
In summary, the addition of end game content specifically designed around lower tier ships would be a win for everyone involved. Player would be the ability to fly their beloved Constitution-classes in a meaningful way. CBS would be able to reinforce their idea of the Constitution-class as a non-competitor in the 2410 environment, as illustrated by enemy selection and balancing. And finally, Cryptic could potentially increase sales of already existing assets by providing a context for their use.
TL;DR Lower tier PvE queues like shuttles.
January 7th, 2009:
Q: Is there a way to keep a ship you like and be able to upgrade it to be the equivalent to your avatar's level? For instance, if I want to stay with a Defiant class but my character is at Sovereign class level - is there a way I can get it to match a bigger ships capability?
A: The answer here is yes and no. Youll start with a Tier 1 ship and you can certainly upgrade it and trick it out so that its comparable to a mid-level Tier 2 ship. However, a top of the line Tier 2 ship is going to be much better than even the most tricked out Tier 1. It has to do with growth capacity. Theres just more room for growth built into the higher tier ships. Of course, your skills and the skills of your bridge crew also affect how much you can do with your ship.
However, you do get to keep your ships. So, if you find yourself in a situation where an earlier ship would be more useful, you can switch back to it for that encounter. For example, you might want to shift back to a smaller and more maneuverable ship for running a blockade.
http://community.arcgames.com/en/news/star-trek-online/detail/1059790-ask-cryptic-_january-7_-2009_
January 2011:
Q: Captain-Lang: Will we have refit for lower tier ship such as a miranda refit?
A: While we do not currently intend to add specific lower tier refits into the ship requisition stores, a future goal of the crafting system is to allow players to outfit and refit their own starships. Under that new system, I would hope that you could take a Miranda class ship and using a budget, refit the class to be something more appropriate to modern times. We're a ways off from having details on this type of feature, but I can say we want to see refits in the future.
http://community.arcgames.com/en/news/star-trek-online/detail/1059520-ask-cryptic_-january-2011
April 2011
Q: DecadeComplete How's the T5 Constitution Refit-Refit that was in a recent engineering report doing? Will there ever be a way to purchase "Ship Slots" and "Costume Slots" in game with say 1Mil EC or so?
A: We are working to add more variations to existing ships for both factions and one of the ships they are working on is an additional Constitution refit; however there has been no confirmation that this is a top tier ship. Geko can add more details as we get closer to Season 4 release, but for now, I can only say that we are working with CBS on an alternative refit design.
As far as making ship and costume slots available for in game currency, we are considering finding a way we could offer them for in game currency, or in the case of ship slots, have the ships come with slots as part of the purchase price.
http://community.arcgames.com/en/news/star-trek-online/detail/1059490-ask-cryptic_-april-2011
May 2011:
Q: dorko1 I know that the refit is still a touchy subject, but could you guys shed any light on what might happen? I understand that there should be obvious misgivings about the idea of the Constitution class outmatching a vessel 200 yrs new and twice its size, but a replica that's really more of an Excalibur class vessel might be able to add something to the mix.
A: You are correct that it is a touchy subject amongst the community and based on the discussions we've had with CBS about ships, I don't think we're going to put a high-end Constitution Class refit into the game. You can still have a lower tier TOS Connie use the Squad Leader feature to bring their stats up to a higher level, but the odds of an end game Connie refit is a long shot.
http://community.arcgames.com/en/news/star-trek-online/detail/1059480-ask-cryptic_-may-2011
November 2012:
Q: (thmichael) Are you going to implement the Ambassador Class at some point? And would it be possible to implement the Old Constitution Class for higher ranks?
Dstahl: Yes. The Ambassador class is coming in 2013. CBS is still pretty adamant about the Old Connie not being an end game ship, but you never know what can happen as time rolls by.
http://community.arcgames.com/en/news/star-trek-online/detail/1020330-ask-cryptic_-november-2012
"Hakeev is too badly injured to speak. He struggles only for a moment before he is finally still...Hakeev's end comes without any desperate speech or furious diatribe. As his plans collapse around him, only silence follows him into oblivion." -The original ending to Cutting the Cord
Post edited by superfort29 on
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Comments
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
To be fair, CBS only said "no" to a TOS Constitution at T5... not the refit or it's modern equivalents i.e. the Exeter. That's Cryptics doing.
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They keep the bestseller for later. Putting each "I need the ..." ship into the game will not let much room for a money making future.
the ent-A? that mean the miranda can make t5 status as well?
more seriously though, i just dont see it happening, they could be playing with fire if they get cbs' attention by trying it.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Apparently only because they're 'fun' and 'amazing'
*shuffles off grumbling about the IP*
Keep that in mind folks when replying
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
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But this thread and its idea have nothing to do with Tier 5.
It's asking for a queued T2 event.
Since the Centaur can go toe to toe with a JHAS, there's already onscreen evidence of that starter ship (at least one of its skins) being T5 capable.
I think you misunderstand what I am proposing.
Replace, in your mind, "Shuttle PvE scenario" with "Tier 2 PvE scenario". The T2 vessel you would use to queue for the event would be the exact same one you leveled with when you were a Lieutenant Commander. No Tier 5 involved.
And because it would be specific for a tier of ships, Cryptic would be able to balance the scenario around those canonical levels of power. So there would be no Undine battleships or Elachi dreadnaughts to fight against (as we can all agree it would be no contest against a little Constitution-class); but instead, sparring against its Tier equivalents or perhaps a tier +1 as a "boss" of sorts.
From a profit incentive: 1.) ship slots; 2.) selling C-Store ships (Constitution, Oberth, etc.); load out trays.
I was going to suggest holographic image units to skin an existing vessel. But that would probably break the legal agreement when you see a multitude of weapons and effects coming from a T1 or T2 starship like the NX-class Enterprise.
I'm all for it. And I'd like to be able to play those ships again.
And you can forget the ship-based power creep issue.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies. ~Askray
Heck, even the Miranda itself did pretty much the same thing as the JHAS in the big battle scenes - they were both small, fast expendable ships getting a few shots off and exploding when anything looked sideways at them.
So... can I haz T5 Miranda with JHAS stats plz Cryptic? :P
So lets have some T1 pve and/or pvp content like we did with shuttles and show up in our Connies, Mirandas and starter B'rels and T'liss'...muuuuuhahhahaa
Such events for each Tier of ships could be fun...but hard to keep populated...Maybe T1, T3..shrug
It's a great idea, btw.
On the one hand I'm thinking it's amazing in how you suggested it since it addresses an oft brought up topic (the Constitution).
But on the other hand I think while that will lead to a lot more discussion, it may also get steamrolled by the T5 Connie debate, and I think your idea goes WAAAAAY beyond the Constitution in its scope and application.
I mean this could really be something here.
Sort of hand-crafted queued events.
Like a Galaxy class event. Using the T4. AND ... get this ... something people have been asking for, for ages ... detailed spec to canon Galaxy INTERIORS for part of the mission (kind of a combo ground/space event, with one phase on the ship and another phase in space ... or just separated into two missions for one larger umbrella Galaxy event). That would really tickle the fancy of a lot of people on the forums who ask for more Galaxy love/attention and better interiors.
Or ...
An Excelsior event.
A D7 or D'Deridex or ...
I mean there's just a lot of flexibility here to feature a specific ship or specific tier. And mix in some of the added visuals people have been asking for. Even tie it to past episodes with some of the fluff/trappings.
So yeah I think you've offered a clever idea for the Connie fans.
But have opened the door BIG TIME for fans of like every other aspect of Star Trek. This could be big if handled correctly.
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You do know CBS does not make money off ship sales right?
Cryptic makes money on ship sales, and if I go by forum logic Cryptic, and PWE are greedy people who only like money, and don't care about Star Trek if they can make a buck off it. So going on that, why would cryptic not sale a ship that will make them money???
What is stopping these greedy people from putting a price tag on a Connie and selling it??
Nice idea. I've been wanting something similar for PvP; but it would work just as well for PvE.
If nothing else, it would mean you might actually see an NX- class ship or the T1 Kumari that no one seems to fly.
This is however a misconception due to Cryptic's "ship tier" system which was a bad decision in the first place. Ships should only be meassured by their own dimensions, not by an artificial "tier" - the show showed that a Miranda, a B'Rel, a Defiant and a JHAS pretty much fill the exact same role in terms of combat scenarios - that does however not mean that any of those should be able to beat a Galaxy Class, Negh'Var or D'Deridex cruiser 1 on 1. The artificial tiers and roles lead to the ridiculous set-up that the smallest vessels feature the biggest firepower and thus are pretty much unstoppable since larger ships are basically not needed.
The OP suggestion has some merit, I would appreciate it. I'd rather see a game system without "tiers" and mixed fleets of player ship in "endgame" content, but that ship has sailed before the game even launched
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Getting this thread back on topic, snoggy thought about the OP's suggestion and offered up some great options.
A "TOS" flavored PvE queue? A "Next Gen" flavored one? With accompanying ground missions too? Cryptic could sell some uniforms!
I agree, this could be something that is a win for lots of folks and no downside I can think of.
Maybe getting queues filled would be a problem, but I really don't think so.
Perhaps we could tell the story of the Earth-Romulan war through such space and ground events?
I absolutely love this idea, I've been itching to fly some of my lower Tier ships but I just don't want to handicap my team in STFEs and normals are rarely played nowadays. Besides, this would partially eliminate power creep - with limited weapon/console slots and Boff settings, there's only so much you can put on a Miranda or a Connie refit.
Cryptic, this is a win-win scenario, make it so!
CBS said no to a T5 Constitution class in any form, end of discussion.
Standard answer completely fails to match point of thread.
This is not about a T5 Connie - this is about creating endame level content specifically for T1, T2, T3 and T4 ships.
Thread never asks for a T5 Consitution class in any form.
Reading is OP, plz nerf. :rolleyes: