Seriously though, call me crazy but I don't want the new FPE on my future characters, I want the old one. I like the 4/2/4 console layout better (even though the new boff seating is essentially superior). Now I'm unable to acquire it and I'm pissed off. Cryptic should never retire a ship. Period. Make both versions available under different class names (Maelstrom, Hurricane, whatever).
If I were to hazard a guess it would be that the Fleet Patrol Escort is probably their worst selling Fleet ship. That is why they spruced it all up with a new C-Store and Fleet versions - they are turning a lemon into lemonaide. They are playing on people's psychological need to have the newest/bestest thing to generate sales from something that was a financial dead end for them.
I should also say that I do not disagree that they should offer both versions; but I understand why they will not: it will cause issues with people purchasing the incorrect version and demanding a refund.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
That's pretty much what I originally said. Because Cryptic cannot add Tier 6 ships since people invested hundreds of dollars in Tier 5 C-store ships and Fleet ships. So they need a way for players to upgrade their existing ships.
Or... they don't because they want players to spend (not invest) hundreds of dollars (again) in new ships.
I should also say that I do not disagree that they should offer both versions; but I understand why they will not: it will cause issues with people purchasing the incorrect version and demanding a refund.
Uh... we have how many Vestas, Scimitars, Odysseys, Bortases, Andorian Escorts, Science Destroyers and God knows what else do we have? Selling multiple versions of ships isn't exactly something Cryptic has shied away from... in fact, they're profiteering off of it.
If I were to hazard a guess it would be that the Fleet Patrol Escort is probably their worst selling Fleet ship. That is why they spruced it all up with a new C-Store and Fleet versions - they are turning a lemon into lemonaide. They are playing on people's psychological need to have the newest/bestest thing to generate sales from something that was a financial dead end for them.
I should also say that I do not disagree that they should offer both versions; but I understand why they will not: it will cause issues with people purchasing the incorrect version and demanding a refund.
Caveat emptor man! If people don't read the description it's their own fault.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Ships in this game have to be manufactured. An artist designs them, they get added into the game etc. It costs time and money to put ships in the game. So ya. Geko said it took one Design Dev 3 months to complete one of the changes they implemented recently. I don't remember exactly which one but the point stands. They have to pay for this game to keep it going.
People line up to buy a new Iphone every year that's slightly upgraded or different than the last one. How is this any different?
It's different in that the iPhones, unlike your patently false claim about the ships, have to be manufactured.
Both of them have to be designed, drawn, implemented- but at the point where "manufacturing" comes into the picture they part ways. Then the iPhones keep a factory busy taking in raw materials and parts and turning them into phones...and the STO ships are done.
Select a piece of text, use control-C to copy it, then use control-V repeatedly to paste it. However many times you pasted it, you just did all it takes to "manufacture" that many of a particular ship in STO once the design is complete and it's in-game.
If I were to hazard a guess it would be that the Fleet Patrol Escort is probably their worst selling Fleet ship. That is why they spruced it all up with a new C-Store and Fleet versions - they are turning a lemon into lemonaide. They are playing on people's psychological need to have the newest/bestest thing to generate sales from something that was a financial dead end for them.
If they're turning lemons into lemonade, then ethically the people who spent money on what was considered a 'financial dead end' should be compensated in some way. Even if it's a FSM discount, or a trade-in option. I'm not even saying they have to be given it for free. But some kind of compensation is in order.
Even the extremely false equivelance of cell phone carriers have 'buy back' programs when it's time to upgrade.
I should also say that I do not disagree that they should offer both versions; but I understand why they will not: it will cause issues with people purchasing the incorrect version and demanding a refund.
That's their fault for not reading the fine print. People lose millions of EC selling a lockbox ship, but didn't buy the EC limit removal. You know what Cryptic has to say about that?
Tough rocks. Should have bought the EC limit removal before selling a JHAS for a few hundred million EC. Enjoy your 10 mil EC.
I like the Maelstrom design. They sold the skin for a while, then they decided to retire it and make it a fleet ship variant out of it. While I purchased the skin, I was sort of OK that I wouldn't get the discount for the Fleet Patrol Escort. Ship Vs Skin... so ok...
At the time there was not C-Store discount path for the Fleet Patrol Escort. Everyone of us who purchased the ship spent Four Fleet Ship Modules... which for this ship... not many wanted to spend.
I think that in addition to tweaking the ship, part of the idea was the create a C-Store variant so there was an "Upgrade Path"... Well I feel that those of us who spent the 4 FSM on the original should at least be offered the C-Store style upgrade path of 1 FSM as if we had the C-Store variant.
I personally am going to buy the C-Store variant anyway (basically for the console I guess...idk).... so it's sort of moot point, but I would have entertained the option if it was available.... and I am kind of ticked off that it is not.
join Date: Sep 2009 - I want my changeling lava lamp!
If they're turning lemons into lemonade, then logically the people who spent money on what was considered a 'financial dead end' should be compensated in some way. Even if it's a FSM discount, or a trade-in option. I'm not even saying they have to be given it for free. But some kind of compensation is in order.
Well, as I said above, they are not talking anything away from anyone. If someone purchased the Fleet ship they get to keep it. So from that standpoint I do not see any problem. If they were taking away someone's purchase then they should be entitled to whatever was spent on the ship in refund, but they are talking away nothing.
As far as the new version, I see that as an entirely new ship. It might have the same Class name but it is a new item entirely. To my mind a new Patrol Escort is no different then them adding any other new ship to the Fleet store. If I owned a Fleet Sovereign and then decided to buy a Fleet Ambassador when it came out it is my choice. I simply own two Fleet Cruisers at that point.
I understand a lot of people do not see it that way. They bought X and so they feel they are entitled to X+1. But to me they are two different entities. Still, I would have no issue if Cryptic decided to offer some soft of trade-in service. Of course I believe the intent here is to get people to buy the C-Store version - and from there 1 additional Module is not a big deal.
That's their fault for not reading the fine print. People lose millions of EC selling a lockbox ship, but didn't buy the EC limit removal. You know what Cryptic has to say about that?
Tough rocks. Should have bought the EC limit removal before selling a JHAS for a few hundred million EC. Enjoy your 10 mil EC.
Easy to say, but when the nerd rage hits the forum - as it always does - it is another thing entirely. Then it is not "Ooh! I made a mistake!" Instead it is "Cryptic suxs for not giving me a refund, and I am sure the ships were not labeled well enough for me to discern the difference. It is really not my fault!"
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Well, as I said above, they are not talking anything away from anyone. If someone purchased the Fleet ship they get to keep it. So from that standpoint I do not see any problem. If they were taking away someone's purchase then they should be entitled to whatever was spent on the ship in refund, but they are talking away nothing.
As far as the new version, I see that as an entirely new ship. It might have the same Class name but it is a new item entirely. To my mind a new Patrol Escort is no different then them adding any other new ship to the Fleet store. If I owned a Fleet Sovereign and then decided to buy a Fleet Ambassador when it came out it is my choice. I simply own two Fleet Cruisers at that point.
I understand a lot of people do not see it that way. They bought X and so they feel they are entitled to X+1. But to me they are two different entities. Still, I would have no issue if Cryptic decided to offer some soft of trade-in service. Of course I believe the intent here is to get people to buy the C-Store version - and from there 1 additional Module is not a big deal.
I think that's fair enough, even if I don't really see things that way.
Easy to say, but when the nerd rage hits the forum - as it always does - it is another thing entirely. Then it is not "Ooh! I made a mistake!" Instead it is "Cryptic suxs for not giving me a refund, and I am sure the ships were not labeled well enough for me to discern the difference. It is really not my fault!"
And we'd still mock them derisively for not reading the fine print, just as we do every now and again when someone else rages on the forum because they failed to read something before clicking OK. :P
And we'd still mock them derisively for not reading the fine print, just as we do every now and again when someone else rages on the forum because they failed to read something before clicking OK. :P
Yes, that is true.
But to some extent I feel like there has been a shift on the forum over the last 6ish months. I feel like people are taking everything personally now rather then just seeing it as a change in the game. Cryptic changed Tour the Galaxy and some forum people saw it as a personal attack on them making ECs. Cryptic changed the Mirror Event and some forum people saw it as a personal attack on them making EXP. Cryptic changed the Galaxy X and some took it as a personal attack that they did not also change the Galaxy R - and there are many other examples from Rep to Dilithium to Dinosaurs with lasers and onward. It really feels like every little change is now fuel to feed some posters' paranoia that Cryptic really is out to TRIBBLE-over its players.
The Fleet Patrol Escort is a minor issue, and I would wonder how many posters in this thread have even purchased the Fleet ship, yet here we are 4 pages into the thread already - over a ship you do not even need to purchase unless you want it.
There is a lot of rage fueling more rage on this forum, IMO.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
But to some extent I feel like there has been a shift on the forum over the last 6ish months. I feel like people are taking everything personally now rather then just seeing it as a change in the game. Cryptic changed Tour the Galaxy and some forum people saw it as a personal attack on them making ECs. Cryptic changed the Mirror Event and some forum people saw it as a personal attack on them making EXP. Cryptic changed the Galaxy X and some took it as a personal attack that they did not also change the Galaxy R - and there are many other examples from Rep to Dilithium to Dinosaurs with lasers and onward. It really feels like every little change is now fuel to feed some posters' paranoia that Cryptic really is out to TRIBBLE-over its players.
The Fleet Patrol Escort is a minor issue, and I would wonder how many posters in this thread have even purchased the Fleet ship, yet here we are 4 pages into the thread already - over a ship you do not even need to purchase unless you want it.
There is a lot of rage fueling more rage on this forum, IMO.
Eh, the big difference for me is that we didn't pay zen or FSMs for Tour the Galaxy, Mirror Event, or scientifically-ignorant people who seem to think the Voth have dinosaurs as pets.
The Galaxy-R I can somewhat agree on, but that goes into the deeper issue of the gameplay in STO being the issue rather than an issue with the ship, per se.
Likewise with the FPE, it's not I ship I even owned, but I see this as a taste of things to come, and I'd rather speak out about it now than wait until they retire one of the ships I do play with.
I think it comes down to what we bought with our purchases. The Fleet ships were marketed and advertised as the cream of the crop. Can't get any better than those. Just like Lockbox ships, the Fleet ships are the very best help someone can get in the game.
But with the FPE being retired, that calls the entire 'Fleet-quality' label into question, because now we see for the first time that Fleet ships are not only no longer peerless in quality, but you can't trade the 'retired' version in towards the purchase of the upgraded one.
It's not false advertising, since the old and busted FPE is still a very good ship, but the fact it was removed implies it was somehow inferior to the new one.
When you buy something in the real world, you're granted the benefits and risks of owning a tangible object. It's yours until you sell it, it breaks down, you lose it or it gets stolen.
This is a computer game, where you buy things that aren't actually real on a server that someone else owns. All purchases in a computer game should be done with the implicit knowledge that it's "yours" for as long as the people who own the server and the game deem fit. If they close the game, so be it. If they change the ship, so be it. If they take the ship, so be it. Because you don't own a physical item you're at the whim of the person who owns and runs the server.
Based on this, I think in future you need to realise this before you make any purchase. You don't "own" the ships you buy, you're essentially "renting" them for a single payment.
When you buy something in the real world, you're granted the benefits and risks of owning a tangible object. It's yours until you sell it, it breaks down, you lose it or it gets stolen.
This is a computer game, where you buy things that aren't actually real on a server that someone else owns. All purchases in a computer game should be done with the implicit knowledge that it's "yours" for as long as the people who own the server and the game deem fit. If they close the game, so be it. If they change the ship, so be it. If they take the ship, so be it. Because you don't own a physical item you're at the whim of the person who owns and runs the server.
Based on this, I think in future you need to realise this before you make any purchase. You don't "own" the ships you buy, you're essentially "renting" them for a single payment.
Of course. It's just more ethical if you aren't a jerk about such things.
I'm not saying they're not in their rights to do this. I'm just saying they're being jerks for doing so.
I apologise if I came across as a jerk when I wrote that. It was not my intention. I wrote that more as a reminder that we can have our lovely shinies changed or taken away at the whim or a person we've never met. As such we really can't become too attached to them.
I apologise if I came across as a jerk when I wrote that. It was not my intention. I wrote that more as a reminder that we can have our lovely shinies changed or taken away at the whim or a person we've never met. As such we really can't become too attached to them.
No, you aren't acting like a jerk. The devs are. They can ban me from the forums, the game, etc., and make a press release about how I'm worse than Hitler. All within their rights.
But it's ethically questionable for them to do so, see what I mean?
That's what it comes down to. Not what they're 'allowed' to do but what they 'should' or 'should not' do. Because they're 'allowed' to do more or less anything they want with their own game.
I feel for the OP. If my fave ship (my beautiful Orb Weaver) got messed with I'd be unhappy. Thing to remember is because it's online content on their servers they can not only be jerks but they can be right proper #$%#&%^$.
I feel for the OP. If my fave ship (my beautiful Orb Weaver) got messed with I'd be unhappy. Thing to remember is because it's online content on their servers they can not only be jerks but they can be right proper #$%#&%^$.
And really, if they want feedback, we're giving it to them. They say they read the forums, and I know they implement player suggestions and make changes to the game based on such things.
Like I said, I don't even have the FPE (nor did I have the retired version), but just like your Orb Weaver, I do have favorite Fleet-quality ships of mine that I do not want to re-purchase (whether for FSMs bought with EC or with zen), and I know there are other people in the game who similarly do not want such things to happen to their favorite Fleet-quality ships.
They have the artistic freedom to do really anything they want with their game, but since they've had a past history of changing things based on player backlash, it stands to reason they might do so again, they just need that feedback.
In the end, if nothing changes, what am I going to do? Nothing. I'll grumble and snark about it and point out this incident as evidence for future 'retired' ships. But I'll still play STO even if I'm unhappy with some of the decisions made. This being one of them.
Just to note, the Tempest's console cannot equip to the Mirror Universe Advanced Escort. It can however be equipped to the Mirror Universe Patrol Escort, aka the mirror Prometheus. Therefore, the mirror Prometheus can indeed have the Multi-Vector Assault Module and the Nadion Saturation Bomb console equipped at the same time.
I understand a lot of people do not see it that way. They bought X and so they feel they are entitled to X+1. But to me they are two different entities. Still, I would have no issue if Cryptic decided to offer some soft of trade-in service. Of course I believe the intent here is to get people to buy the C-Store version - and from there 1 additional Module is not a big deal.
I do not feel entitled to X+1.
I do expect the company to follow past precedent, similar to the original fleet ship releases, and allow me to get my +1 at the reasonable cost difference of 1 fleet ship module.
By them not doing so it makes me wary of two things, one of which I already was wary of. The second being what to expect when, and we all know it is a question of when not if, when the next tier of ships is released what will happen to our currently owned ships. Matters not if the next tier is merely a new 'gimmick' per ship (like the aft turret) and rolled out to one ship every two months, or if it is a gaint roll out with an additional item slot (like fleet ships, or warp cores). Will my previous purchases be completely outdated? Will I get a discount for the upgrade? Will the upgrade be free?
Previously I assumed the secondary deflectors would be added to every existing science ship. Now I'm not so sure.
As to the first thing I was wary of was the insistence on rolling out the 'new hotness' constantly invaliding older ships. This has been happening since F2P launch and is the number one source of power creep in the game. Yet even though devs have acknowledged simply pushing up the stats and increasing power creep is a bad idea in the long term as it comes to reputations and their gear, they continue to do so with the ships.
It is not the ship in the end. I don't even really care much for the new offering and doubt I would even fly it although I would participate in an upgrade for 1 FSM option just to vote with my wallet. It is a matter of principles, and a question of precedent. Do I want to continue both playing and spending money on a game if it's F2P model becomes something I do not like?
Many would argue STO has the best F2P model of any game with the content being free. I do not but that is another topic for another day. Simply put I didn't like the direction of the past very much, and I am concerned for the future.
Easy to say, but when the nerd rage hits the forum - as it always does - it is another thing entirely. Then it is not "Ooh! I made a mistake!" Instead it is "Cryptic suxs for not giving me a refund, and I am sure the ships were not labeled well enough for me to discern the difference. It is really not my fault!"
I'm not in favor of punishing others to coddle people that are likely to earn a Darwin Award later in life. :P
Removing access to the old FPE is Cryptic's way of thinking for them. Having access to both requires them to use a modicum of intelligence and read the ship description. If they don't, well they earn that knowledge the hard way and won't do that twice then will they?
Also since I haven't mentioned it before, I'm actually okay with the fact that the new version "obsoletes" the old one with power creep, my single point of contention is the removal of access to that old one for those that didn't have it already but might want it already. And I guess I suppose those with the old one should probably get a discount on the new one, 2FSM maybe I dunno, this is rather unprecedented.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Just to note, the Tempest's console cannot equip to the Mirror Universe Advanced Escort. It can however be equipped to the Mirror Universe Patrol Escort, aka the mirror Prometheus. Therefore, the mirror Prometheus can indeed have the Multi-Vector Assault Module and the Nadion Saturation Bomb console equipped at the same time.
Bug? Or feature?
No, I actually think that's a feature. It's only usable for the "Patrol Escort" and that's what the Mirror Prometheus is - a "Patrol Escort".
There shouldn't be any kind of "compensation", since Cryptic hasn't done anything to TRIBBLE anybody over.
The original Fleet Patrol Escort is still very playable in the game. Those who bought it are still getting what they payed for when they bought it. Just because Cryptic came out with a new variant in the C-Store, and produced an updated Fleet variant because of that, doesn't mean that they owe anybody jack ****.
I bought the c-store one for my tac and having a lot of fun with it.Once I get all my gear for it will get fleet version also. If you don't like it don't buy it no one is making you to buy it.
Likewise with the FPE, it's not I ship I even owned, but I see this as a taste of things to come, and I'd rather speak out about it now than wait until they retire one of the ships I do play with.
I think it comes down to what we bought with our purchases. The Fleet ships were marketed and advertised as the cream of the crop. Can't get any better than those. Just like Lockbox ships, the Fleet ships are the very best help someone can get in the game.
But with the FPE being retired, that calls the entire 'Fleet-quality' label into question, because now we see for the first time that Fleet ships are not only no longer peerless in quality, but you can't trade the 'retired' version in towards the purchase of the upgraded one.
It's not false advertising, since the old and busted FPE is still a very good ship, but the fact it was removed implies it was somehow inferior to the new one.
And really, if they want feedback, we're giving it to them. They say they read the forums, and I know they implement player suggestions and make changes to the game based on such things.
Like I said, I don't even have the FPE (nor did I have the retired version), but just like your Orb Weaver, I do have favorite Fleet-quality ships of mine that I do not want to re-purchase (whether for FSMs bought with EC or with zen), and I know there are other people in the game who similarly do not want such things to happen to their favorite Fleet-quality ships.
They have the artistic freedom to do really anything they want with their game, but since they've had a past history of changing things based on player backlash, it stands to reason they might do so again, they just need that feedback.
I agree, and thank you for stating exactly how I also feel about the subject in an eloquent manner. I have no desire to have my ships contantly become outdated and be forced to re-purchase them.
One of the first F2P I ever played was LoL, I also play warframe quite a bit. In both of those games they frequently go back to older champions and warframes to give them an update and keep them relevant. They might be a bit slow about it, they might not update them in the exact way I wish they would. but they also do not expect the customer to buy the second updated version.
That is what I had hoped was occurring with the FPE. I was wrong apparently. My wallet is now closed.
I do think it would be a good idea for Cryptic to consider more discount-type purchases for cases like this.
I don't have the old version, but if I did I'd be upset too. If they ever decided to re-release the Vesta in the same way, for example, and expected me to pay full price for it, I'd be more than upset.
I think it would be reasonable to either let players keep the old versions they paid for, or to upgrade for a fraction of the cost of a new ship. Sort of like the discounted cost in Fleet Ship Modules for a fleet ship version of a C-Store ship you already have.
I bet a lot of people who have the old version of the ship would have jumped at paying 500 zen to buy the upgraded version. And maybe the fleet version should have permitted the discount cost if you only had the old version. You wouldn't get the new console, but you'd get the fleet version at a reasonable cost.
On the other hand, I think minor updates should be done for older ships as a routine thing, with no extra cost, to bring them closer to the current standards. Or, add things to the upgraded ships to make an up-charge worth it. New skins, new interiors, unique gear with or without set bonuses, etc.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
No, I actually think that's a feature. It's only usable for the "Patrol Escort" and that's what the Mirror Prometheus is - a "Patrol Escort".
I suppose. But it does seem to give the Mirror Universe Advanced Escort the shaft, as it can equip neither consoles.
Anyway, doesn't the Fleet Escort (Saber-class) have the exact same setup as the old Fleet Patrol Escort? That may be one of their reasons for changing it - they don't want two ships that are identical stat-wise. It could also be a hint of what (fleet?) ship they decide to alter next.
Edit: The Wiki says the old FPE had an Ensign universal and more hull than the Fleet Saber. Otherwise, yeah they were identical.
I do think it would be a good idea for Cryptic to consider more discount-type purchases for cases like this.
I don't have the old version, but if I did I'd be upset too. If they ever decided to re-release the Vesta in the same way, for example, and expected me to pay full price for it, I'd be more than upset.
I think it would be reasonable to either let players keep the old versions they paid for, or to upgrade for a fraction of the cost of a new ship. Sort of like the discounted cost in Fleet Ship Modules for a fleet ship version of a C-Store ship you already have.
I bet a lot of people who have the old version of the ship would have jumped at paying 500 zen to buy the upgraded version. And maybe the fleet version should have permitted the discount cost if you only had the old version. You wouldn't get the new console, but you'd get the fleet version at a reasonable cost.
On the other hand, I think minor updates should be done for older ships as a routine thing, with no extra cost, to bring them closer to the current standards. Or, add things to the upgraded ships to make an up-charge worth it. New skins, new interiors, unique gear with or without set bonuses, etc.
Comments
I should also say that I do not disagree that they should offer both versions; but I understand why they will not: it will cause issues with people purchasing the incorrect version and demanding a refund.
No, they don't. There is a difference between design and manufacturing. There is no per unit cost on ships.
Or... they don't because they want players to spend (not invest) hundreds of dollars (again) in new ships.
Uh... we have how many Vestas, Scimitars, Odysseys, Bortases, Andorian Escorts, Science Destroyers and God knows what else do we have? Selling multiple versions of ships isn't exactly something Cryptic has shied away from... in fact, they're profiteering off of it.
Agreed.
Caveat emptor man! If people don't read the description it's their own fault.
Joined January 2009
It's different in that the iPhones, unlike your patently false claim about the ships, have to be manufactured.
Both of them have to be designed, drawn, implemented- but at the point where "manufacturing" comes into the picture they part ways. Then the iPhones keep a factory busy taking in raw materials and parts and turning them into phones...and the STO ships are done.
Select a piece of text, use control-C to copy it, then use control-V repeatedly to paste it. However many times you pasted it, you just did all it takes to "manufacture" that many of a particular ship in STO once the design is complete and it's in-game.
If they're turning lemons into lemonade, then ethically the people who spent money on what was considered a 'financial dead end' should be compensated in some way. Even if it's a FSM discount, or a trade-in option. I'm not even saying they have to be given it for free. But some kind of compensation is in order.
Even the extremely false equivelance of cell phone carriers have 'buy back' programs when it's time to upgrade.
That's their fault for not reading the fine print. People lose millions of EC selling a lockbox ship, but didn't buy the EC limit removal. You know what Cryptic has to say about that?
Tough rocks. Should have bought the EC limit removal before selling a JHAS for a few hundred million EC. Enjoy your 10 mil EC.
https://twitter.com/CaptainGeko/status/464167819190345728
I like the Maelstrom design. They sold the skin for a while, then they decided to retire it and make it a fleet ship variant out of it. While I purchased the skin, I was sort of OK that I wouldn't get the discount for the Fleet Patrol Escort. Ship Vs Skin... so ok...
At the time there was not C-Store discount path for the Fleet Patrol Escort. Everyone of us who purchased the ship spent Four Fleet Ship Modules... which for this ship... not many wanted to spend.
I think that in addition to tweaking the ship, part of the idea was the create a C-Store variant so there was an "Upgrade Path"... Well I feel that those of us who spent the 4 FSM on the original should at least be offered the C-Store style upgrade path of 1 FSM as if we had the C-Store variant.
I personally am going to buy the C-Store variant anyway (basically for the console I guess...idk).... so it's sort of moot point, but I would have entertained the option if it was available.... and I am kind of ticked off that it is not.
As far as the new version, I see that as an entirely new ship. It might have the same Class name but it is a new item entirely. To my mind a new Patrol Escort is no different then them adding any other new ship to the Fleet store. If I owned a Fleet Sovereign and then decided to buy a Fleet Ambassador when it came out it is my choice. I simply own two Fleet Cruisers at that point.
I understand a lot of people do not see it that way. They bought X and so they feel they are entitled to X+1. But to me they are two different entities. Still, I would have no issue if Cryptic decided to offer some soft of trade-in service. Of course I believe the intent here is to get people to buy the C-Store version - and from there 1 additional Module is not a big deal.
Easy to say, but when the nerd rage hits the forum - as it always does - it is another thing entirely. Then it is not "Ooh! I made a mistake!" Instead it is "Cryptic suxs for not giving me a refund, and I am sure the ships were not labeled well enough for me to discern the difference. It is really not my fault!"
I think that's fair enough, even if I don't really see things that way.
And we'd still mock them derisively for not reading the fine print, just as we do every now and again when someone else rages on the forum because they failed to read something before clicking OK. :P
But to some extent I feel like there has been a shift on the forum over the last 6ish months. I feel like people are taking everything personally now rather then just seeing it as a change in the game. Cryptic changed Tour the Galaxy and some forum people saw it as a personal attack on them making ECs. Cryptic changed the Mirror Event and some forum people saw it as a personal attack on them making EXP. Cryptic changed the Galaxy X and some took it as a personal attack that they did not also change the Galaxy R - and there are many other examples from Rep to Dilithium to Dinosaurs with lasers and onward. It really feels like every little change is now fuel to feed some posters' paranoia that Cryptic really is out to TRIBBLE-over its players.
The Fleet Patrol Escort is a minor issue, and I would wonder how many posters in this thread have even purchased the Fleet ship, yet here we are 4 pages into the thread already - over a ship you do not even need to purchase unless you want it.
There is a lot of rage fueling more rage on this forum, IMO.
Eh, the big difference for me is that we didn't pay zen or FSMs for Tour the Galaxy, Mirror Event, or scientifically-ignorant people who seem to think the Voth have dinosaurs as pets.
The Galaxy-R I can somewhat agree on, but that goes into the deeper issue of the gameplay in STO being the issue rather than an issue with the ship, per se.
Likewise with the FPE, it's not I ship I even owned, but I see this as a taste of things to come, and I'd rather speak out about it now than wait until they retire one of the ships I do play with.
I think it comes down to what we bought with our purchases. The Fleet ships were marketed and advertised as the cream of the crop. Can't get any better than those. Just like Lockbox ships, the Fleet ships are the very best help someone can get in the game.
But with the FPE being retired, that calls the entire 'Fleet-quality' label into question, because now we see for the first time that Fleet ships are not only no longer peerless in quality, but you can't trade the 'retired' version in towards the purchase of the upgraded one.
It's not false advertising, since the old and busted FPE is still a very good ship, but the fact it was removed implies it was somehow inferior to the new one.
It's a shady and underhanded tactic.
This is a computer game, where you buy things that aren't actually real on a server that someone else owns. All purchases in a computer game should be done with the implicit knowledge that it's "yours" for as long as the people who own the server and the game deem fit. If they close the game, so be it. If they change the ship, so be it. If they take the ship, so be it. Because you don't own a physical item you're at the whim of the person who owns and runs the server.
Based on this, I think in future you need to realise this before you make any purchase. You don't "own" the ships you buy, you're essentially "renting" them for a single payment.
Of course. It's just more ethical if you aren't a jerk about such things.
I'm not saying they're not in their rights to do this. I'm just saying they're being jerks for doing so.
No, you aren't acting like a jerk. The devs are. They can ban me from the forums, the game, etc., and make a press release about how I'm worse than Hitler. All within their rights.
But it's ethically questionable for them to do so, see what I mean?
That's what it comes down to. Not what they're 'allowed' to do but what they 'should' or 'should not' do. Because they're 'allowed' to do more or less anything they want with their own game.
And really, if they want feedback, we're giving it to them. They say they read the forums, and I know they implement player suggestions and make changes to the game based on such things.
Like I said, I don't even have the FPE (nor did I have the retired version), but just like your Orb Weaver, I do have favorite Fleet-quality ships of mine that I do not want to re-purchase (whether for FSMs bought with EC or with zen), and I know there are other people in the game who similarly do not want such things to happen to their favorite Fleet-quality ships.
They have the artistic freedom to do really anything they want with their game, but since they've had a past history of changing things based on player backlash, it stands to reason they might do so again, they just need that feedback.
In the end, if nothing changes, what am I going to do? Nothing. I'll grumble and snark about it and point out this incident as evidence for future 'retired' ships. But I'll still play STO even if I'm unhappy with some of the decisions made. This being one of them.
Bug? Or feature?
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
I do not feel entitled to X+1.
I do expect the company to follow past precedent, similar to the original fleet ship releases, and allow me to get my +1 at the reasonable cost difference of 1 fleet ship module.
By them not doing so it makes me wary of two things, one of which I already was wary of. The second being what to expect when, and we all know it is a question of when not if, when the next tier of ships is released what will happen to our currently owned ships. Matters not if the next tier is merely a new 'gimmick' per ship (like the aft turret) and rolled out to one ship every two months, or if it is a gaint roll out with an additional item slot (like fleet ships, or warp cores). Will my previous purchases be completely outdated? Will I get a discount for the upgrade? Will the upgrade be free?
Previously I assumed the secondary deflectors would be added to every existing science ship. Now I'm not so sure.
As to the first thing I was wary of was the insistence on rolling out the 'new hotness' constantly invaliding older ships. This has been happening since F2P launch and is the number one source of power creep in the game. Yet even though devs have acknowledged simply pushing up the stats and increasing power creep is a bad idea in the long term as it comes to reputations and their gear, they continue to do so with the ships.
It is not the ship in the end. I don't even really care much for the new offering and doubt I would even fly it although I would participate in an upgrade for 1 FSM option just to vote with my wallet. It is a matter of principles, and a question of precedent. Do I want to continue both playing and spending money on a game if it's F2P model becomes something I do not like?
Many would argue STO has the best F2P model of any game with the content being free. I do not but that is another topic for another day. Simply put I didn't like the direction of the past very much, and I am concerned for the future.
I'm not in favor of punishing others to coddle people that are likely to earn a Darwin Award later in life. :P
Related: http://splicd.com/ZUssvstnWvo/6/73
Removing access to the old FPE is Cryptic's way of thinking for them. Having access to both requires them to use a modicum of intelligence and read the ship description. If they don't, well they earn that knowledge the hard way and won't do that twice then will they?
Also since I haven't mentioned it before, I'm actually okay with the fact that the new version "obsoletes" the old one with power creep, my single point of contention is the removal of access to that old one for those that didn't have it already but might want it already. And I guess I suppose those with the old one should probably get a discount on the new one, 2FSM maybe I dunno, this is rather unprecedented.
Joined January 2009
No, I actually think that's a feature. It's only usable for the "Patrol Escort" and that's what the Mirror Prometheus is - a "Patrol Escort".
The original Fleet Patrol Escort is still very playable in the game. Those who bought it are still getting what they payed for when they bought it. Just because Cryptic came out with a new variant in the C-Store, and produced an updated Fleet variant because of that, doesn't mean that they owe anybody jack ****.
People need to grow up.
The ship is out and very nice to fly. It's just a shame that a lot of people are building it as an Aux2BS ship.
you don't pay the design and the software people?
I agree, and thank you for stating exactly how I also feel about the subject in an eloquent manner. I have no desire to have my ships contantly become outdated and be forced to re-purchase them.
One of the first F2P I ever played was LoL, I also play warframe quite a bit. In both of those games they frequently go back to older champions and warframes to give them an update and keep them relevant. They might be a bit slow about it, they might not update them in the exact way I wish they would. but they also do not expect the customer to buy the second updated version.
That is what I had hoped was occurring with the FPE. I was wrong apparently. My wallet is now closed.
I don't have the old version, but if I did I'd be upset too. If they ever decided to re-release the Vesta in the same way, for example, and expected me to pay full price for it, I'd be more than upset.
I think it would be reasonable to either let players keep the old versions they paid for, or to upgrade for a fraction of the cost of a new ship. Sort of like the discounted cost in Fleet Ship Modules for a fleet ship version of a C-Store ship you already have.
I bet a lot of people who have the old version of the ship would have jumped at paying 500 zen to buy the upgraded version. And maybe the fleet version should have permitted the discount cost if you only had the old version. You wouldn't get the new console, but you'd get the fleet version at a reasonable cost.
On the other hand, I think minor updates should be done for older ships as a routine thing, with no extra cost, to bring them closer to the current standards. Or, add things to the upgraded ships to make an up-charge worth it. New skins, new interiors, unique gear with or without set bonuses, etc.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Anyway, doesn't the Fleet Escort (Saber-class) have the exact same setup as the old Fleet Patrol Escort? That may be one of their reasons for changing it - they don't want two ships that are identical stat-wise. It could also be a hint of what (fleet?) ship they decide to alter next.
Edit: The Wiki says the old FPE had an Ensign universal and more hull than the Fleet Saber. Otherwise, yeah they were identical.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
^--- agreed.