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Fleet Patrol Escort Re-Release Feedback / Future Concerns
bareel
Member Posts: 3 Arc User
Constructive Criticism
Due to the roll out of the new Patrol Escort and how it was handled I now both have buyers remorse over my original purchase of the ship, and do not have any consumer confidence with the Cstore products both new and the back catalog.
It is your option to not upgrade the old version for those whom have already purchased it. You also have the option to cut the hull of every ship we have already purchased in half. Both are bad ideas. Additionally the lack of communication about what would happen to those who already own the ship was extremely unprofessional. It was the first question many had and it has gone unanswered further eroding my consumer confidence with your company.
I understand the new version has a higher cost. I would completely understand having to pay that difference to get the new version. But to simply be ignored and forced to make the assumption that you expect me to pay full price again after your company has decided the old version is not longer desirable enough to even continue to offer it for sale is extremely disappointing.
Warning: Rest of post makes no attempts at being polite or diplomatic about my personal opinion and feelings on this subject but may contain valuable feedback, you have been warned.
Prologue
I used to try and collect all the ship releases as if they were Pokemon. I wanted to have them all because I love variety and enjoy using different ships with various setups to achieve victory!
I had finished getting all the escorts and began to move onward to the science vessels and cruisers. The first pair I snagged were the Nebula and Galaxy X with the standard Galaxy being the next ones on the list. Unfortunately at that time science vessels were terrible for PvE and no matter how I tweaked the Nebula it just could not perform well enough to meet my expectations. The Galaxy X did well enough, mostly because it was being flown by a tactical captain, but simply put was weaker than the defiant he used to use even in survivability due to it being a literal brick.
It was then that the Reagent was released. Here I am with two ships I just purchased that just cannot keep up performance wise with ones I already have looking to purchase the Galaxy R and knowing just how terrible it will be. And instead of taking any steps to improve the capabilities of an entire ship class (Science Vessels) or tweaking that of the under performing cruisers they simply power creep a solution. Ugh.
Now don't misunderstand I wasn't annoyed by the release of a tactical heavy cruisers, I was already flying a Galor at the time, I was annoyed that already released ships were being held to the 'as is' standard even if they were bad. Additionally I know that they were, and are, still capable of completing the content in STO but so are T1 ships. I have a 'good enough' philosophy with my ship builds and care little about being the top DPS person in the game. But these ships simply could not meet my 'good enough' standards and the idea that Cryptic did not care one bit about their ships being relatively balanced to one another really bothered me.
Additionally it was not and is not, simply a matter of ship balance, if science console are the weakest then by inference a ship with mostly science console slots will be weaker. Ditto with boff abilities, weapon selection, HP vs Speed/Turn Rate, and so on.
So I adopted a new policy. If the ship isn't the 'new hotness' so to speak, I don't want it. Unless I had a character whom was sure to fly the ship to my 'good enough' standard I have no intention of purchasing the ship. I even go so far as to try them out on tribble before I pick them up.
$20 isn't an unreasonable amount of money for a ship in a F2P game especially when it's usually not my $20 I'm spending. But for that much money I do have certain expectations from my purchase and many of the ships in STO do not meet them.
The Bright Side
Things have improved. A real effort to improve the performance of things that were under-performing has been and continues to happen. Everything from the new gear to support beams, EPtX changes, tons of science boff abilities being modified, cruiser auras, and on top of it all the new sensor analysis. In fact my faith in the Cstore is nearly restored and I am considering purchasing several more ships. Sure the Galaxy revamp was pretty bad but the changes to EPtX, Auras, and decoupling of the Team abilities went a very long way to improving them in the first place. Oh and the RCS change, did I forget to mention that?
The Rant of Today
Another ship is being revamped, the Patrol Escort. Still a solid ship as is but compared to the steamrunner, andorian, and a few others it is a bit redundant. This is amazing Cryptic has identified a ship that no longer had a true 'nitch' and is remaking it! This is unprecedented and really goes to show they care about ensuring a ship has such a 'nitch'.
Wait a second though, I already have one of those don't I? Why yes, I do. Granted it has been sitting in drydock for quite awhile after I picked up my Steamrunner but hey maybe I'll give it another look.
But no. Not unless I pony up another $25 it seems. So let us see if I understand this. I already spent $20 getting this ship. This ship has been identified as obsolete by Cryptic themselves due to other ship releases. They are updating it to have a nitch. And they want me to pay again?
No. Not going to happen. Instead those other two ship purchases from your back catalog I was considering are now also not going to happen.
This reminds me of another time in STO's history. When the flag ships were released with 10 console slots. Then fleet ships came along and made all the ships obsolete aside from the lockbox ones of course. But atleast when that occurred they allowed me to upgrade those ships for a massive discount making it tolerable.
Now we are nearing yet another such transition. Very soon expansion 2 will be released along with secondary deflectors, comm arrays, and ?targeting computer? item slots being added to ships. Will those be applied to the older ships like warp cores? Or are we going to be forced to advance our fleet shipyard to T6+ and spend another fleet module to get them? Worse yet are we going to have to repurchase all our ships for full price?
This was not a concern for me on Monday. Today it is and I will not be purchasing a single ship until it stops being a concern. You can only burn consumers so long before they close their wallets. Everyone has a line, this is mine.
Due to the roll out of the new Patrol Escort and how it was handled I now both have buyers remorse over my original purchase of the ship, and do not have any consumer confidence with the Cstore products both new and the back catalog.
It is your option to not upgrade the old version for those whom have already purchased it. You also have the option to cut the hull of every ship we have already purchased in half. Both are bad ideas. Additionally the lack of communication about what would happen to those who already own the ship was extremely unprofessional. It was the first question many had and it has gone unanswered further eroding my consumer confidence with your company.
I understand the new version has a higher cost. I would completely understand having to pay that difference to get the new version. But to simply be ignored and forced to make the assumption that you expect me to pay full price again after your company has decided the old version is not longer desirable enough to even continue to offer it for sale is extremely disappointing.
Warning: Rest of post makes no attempts at being polite or diplomatic about my personal opinion and feelings on this subject but may contain valuable feedback, you have been warned.
Prologue
I used to try and collect all the ship releases as if they were Pokemon. I wanted to have them all because I love variety and enjoy using different ships with various setups to achieve victory!
I had finished getting all the escorts and began to move onward to the science vessels and cruisers. The first pair I snagged were the Nebula and Galaxy X with the standard Galaxy being the next ones on the list. Unfortunately at that time science vessels were terrible for PvE and no matter how I tweaked the Nebula it just could not perform well enough to meet my expectations. The Galaxy X did well enough, mostly because it was being flown by a tactical captain, but simply put was weaker than the defiant he used to use even in survivability due to it being a literal brick.
It was then that the Reagent was released. Here I am with two ships I just purchased that just cannot keep up performance wise with ones I already have looking to purchase the Galaxy R and knowing just how terrible it will be. And instead of taking any steps to improve the capabilities of an entire ship class (Science Vessels) or tweaking that of the under performing cruisers they simply power creep a solution. Ugh.
Now don't misunderstand I wasn't annoyed by the release of a tactical heavy cruisers, I was already flying a Galor at the time, I was annoyed that already released ships were being held to the 'as is' standard even if they were bad. Additionally I know that they were, and are, still capable of completing the content in STO but so are T1 ships. I have a 'good enough' philosophy with my ship builds and care little about being the top DPS person in the game. But these ships simply could not meet my 'good enough' standards and the idea that Cryptic did not care one bit about their ships being relatively balanced to one another really bothered me.
Additionally it was not and is not, simply a matter of ship balance, if science console are the weakest then by inference a ship with mostly science console slots will be weaker. Ditto with boff abilities, weapon selection, HP vs Speed/Turn Rate, and so on.
So I adopted a new policy. If the ship isn't the 'new hotness' so to speak, I don't want it. Unless I had a character whom was sure to fly the ship to my 'good enough' standard I have no intention of purchasing the ship. I even go so far as to try them out on tribble before I pick them up.
$20 isn't an unreasonable amount of money for a ship in a F2P game especially when it's usually not my $20 I'm spending. But for that much money I do have certain expectations from my purchase and many of the ships in STO do not meet them.
The Bright Side
Things have improved. A real effort to improve the performance of things that were under-performing has been and continues to happen. Everything from the new gear to support beams, EPtX changes, tons of science boff abilities being modified, cruiser auras, and on top of it all the new sensor analysis. In fact my faith in the Cstore is nearly restored and I am considering purchasing several more ships. Sure the Galaxy revamp was pretty bad but the changes to EPtX, Auras, and decoupling of the Team abilities went a very long way to improving them in the first place. Oh and the RCS change, did I forget to mention that?
The Rant of Today
Another ship is being revamped, the Patrol Escort. Still a solid ship as is but compared to the steamrunner, andorian, and a few others it is a bit redundant. This is amazing Cryptic has identified a ship that no longer had a true 'nitch' and is remaking it! This is unprecedented and really goes to show they care about ensuring a ship has such a 'nitch'.
Wait a second though, I already have one of those don't I? Why yes, I do. Granted it has been sitting in drydock for quite awhile after I picked up my Steamrunner but hey maybe I'll give it another look.
But no. Not unless I pony up another $25 it seems. So let us see if I understand this. I already spent $20 getting this ship. This ship has been identified as obsolete by Cryptic themselves due to other ship releases. They are updating it to have a nitch. And they want me to pay again?
No. Not going to happen. Instead those other two ship purchases from your back catalog I was considering are now also not going to happen.
This reminds me of another time in STO's history. When the flag ships were released with 10 console slots. Then fleet ships came along and made all the ships obsolete aside from the lockbox ones of course. But atleast when that occurred they allowed me to upgrade those ships for a massive discount making it tolerable.
Now we are nearing yet another such transition. Very soon expansion 2 will be released along with secondary deflectors, comm arrays, and ?targeting computer? item slots being added to ships. Will those be applied to the older ships like warp cores? Or are we going to be forced to advance our fleet shipyard to T6+ and spend another fleet module to get them? Worse yet are we going to have to repurchase all our ships for full price?
This was not a concern for me on Monday. Today it is and I will not be purchasing a single ship until it stops being a concern. You can only burn consumers so long before they close their wallets. Everyone has a line, this is mine.
Post edited by bareel on
0
Comments
I wonder if all t5 ships will be getting this treatment?
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
I sure hope so.
I think the main issue to deal with is the ships being "retired". A trade-in option for players who bought the old Fleet Patrol Escort should have been available, much like they did with the Fleet Kits.
I'm guessing it is the test launch for the T5.75 roll out expansion 2 will come with.
I love the new ship, i'll buy one, as simple as that
Computers and TVs need to be manufactured. You don't pay for patches to software to keep it up to date.
How long should we expect a ship purchase for cash to remain up to date in STO?
Apple showed people do not need to pay for iOS upgrade... or even OSX upgrade for that matter. (In short, bad analogy or old style business is bad. Take a pick)
Did you mean "niche"?
I do agree that the ship needed an overhaul, but like so many other out-dated C-store ships, there's always a price to pay for "new" stuff.
Not at all, but windows vista and windows 7 are still receiving updates to ensure they remain secure and work. Additionally their was a 3 year gap between windows 7 and the release of windows 8.
Finally an operating system is more comparable to a game version (STO 2) than a piece of content in the game.
This reminds me of movie releases where they re-release the same movie but with two extra special features and wonder why people don't bother to buy it again.
If I buy a c store ship, I do so with the confidence that I can reclaim it on any of my eligible toons any time I want in the future.
This Patrol escort change though destroys that confidence. They can retire c store ships.
I'd be insanely pissed it I spent real money on a c store ship and then they removed it, effectively stealing the benefit I had.
Even worse is replacing with something better. You don't have the new one and you can't even claim the old one?
Yeh I'm gonna be spreading this around the MMO sites like wildfire to stay far as ****ing can be away from paywall entertainment and cryptic.
This is sleezebay behavior of the lowest sort.
Anyone who had the patrol escort ship should have the new one unlocked in its place. The difference in price is already taken care of since the players who have it spent money long ago on it, and should have that discount - logically so since the retired version is clearly inferior. If anything paying the difference should be it: but it should really be free.
My consumer confidence in STO just tanked. I will never purchase another c store ship again unless this is fixed immediately. Before the weekend. Can't do that? No problem cryptic, your lack of foresight and respect for your customers caused that- not me.
I used a free Sovereign until they offered a Fleet Sovereign; and after that they offered a C-Store Regent. If they offered a new Fleet Sovereign i have the option of buying it or not, but it does not change the fact that I can still use my existing Fleet Sovereign.
And you do realize that Lucas sold TONS of re-edited and formatted Star Wars, right? And that CBS did the same basic thing with Star Trek Blue Ray?
Your argument fails to account for the fact that I can reclaim dismissed c store ships- that's part of the package deal. If the OP had his dismissed he can no longer reclaim a ship he has already paid for. That sets an incredibly shady practice. What if after the expansion the refit every c store ship, requiring them all to be repurchased?
What if they redid the scimitar and pulled the existing one? You think romulans would be okay with that ?? Having to spend another 25$ to get a ship they already bought?
I have the vesta lack, the defiant, the sovereign. If the refitted those and removed the existing versions from the store, I would be out close to 10k zen- without being able to reclaim ships if already paid for.
This sets a very ugly precedent and needs to be rectified immediately. I would be so upset if I found I could no longer reclaim my ships without purchasing.
Bait and switch? Yes.
So the c store version was upgraded and anyone who had it purchased before gets the new version already unlocked?
What are you talking about? There was NEVER a Patrol Escort in the C-Store until today.
What the game is doing is adding a C-Store version, which did not already exist. They are also removing the existing Fleet version and adding a new one. If you already own the Fleet version you get to keep it. If you want the new version you must purchase it - and that is no different then purchasing any other Fleet ship.
Damn I completely misread. That's what I get for freakig out on forums while trying to also work.
There was no C-Store version of this ship before. The C-Store version is a Refit of Patrol Escort.
I think they should offer some kind of exchange option. But it might have been bad to force it upon players, too - who knows if someone preferred the old version (seems unlikely, but there are people that complain about some minor changes to their character faces after a major character art update. I've seen people complain this ship had only 4 instead of 5 BO slots)
But will they - we'll see. I have some doubts, unfortunately, since they did not mention it specifically already.
That is all I ask for, I don't even mind paying the difference with an extra fleet module. Although you would think they would have something like that worked out ahead of time so I'm not exactly expecting it to happen.
It should be an option. People who prefer the original can choose to keep it as a legacy ship, or can trade it in at a discount for the new version. Or pay the full price and just have both to use.
But hey, in the end, it's all about money. A few disgruntled players who lose a bit of faith in the company is a small price to pay for moar money, after all.
Indeed, we had somewhat the same mess with the Fleet Prometheus and the Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit. Some players preferred the original default configuration than the ones offered in the Fleet Store. So perhaps it's time the Dev Team rethink Fleet ships?
Heck, maybe they should revise the entire ship structure and maybe allow for certain upgrades that would allow players to stick with the ships they like as they level up? (With some ships having obvious limitations).
I'm apprehensive about any level cap raise or new tier of ships.
This isn't a sub only MMO where you can obsolete peoples gear every expansion. It's a f2p that makes it money on ships. This is a razor edge to dance:
So they release a new tier of ships, effectively turning what everyone thought was their endgame ship into what is now essentially a very expensive (think lockbox not so much cstore or fleet) leveling ship?
Or do they leave the tiers the same, and just add new types of gear slots to all existing ships as a way for new character development?
I personally would prefer they never raise the ship tier, but start to add modules to them, where we can choose to add another console slot, or a weapon bay, or device slot, or newer item types; and then limit the upper level on mods themselves (think mk12) to the level cap of the player.
This would mean with significant investment one could eventually turn a lower tier ship into endgame. New level cap, new mod "cap".
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
That's pretty much what I originally said. Because Cryptic cannot add Tier 6 ships since people invested hundreds of dollars in Tier 5 C-store ships and Fleet ships. So they need a way for players to upgrade their existing ships.
Ships in this game have to be manufactured. An artist designs them, they get added into the game etc. It costs time and money to put ships in the game. So ya. Geko said it took one Design Dev 3 months to complete one of the changes they implemented recently. I don't remember exactly which one but the point stands. They have to pay for this game to keep it going.
People line up to buy a new Iphone every year that's slightly upgraded or different than the last one. How is this any different?
My feedback: the ship looks great, will perform great and I will buy it.
Concerns for the future: None. Keep doing what you need to do to keep our game going.
This is different because I don't own an iPhone, an iPad, or any other iAppliance specifically for the reasons you mentioned. I think it's dumb and I don't buy into it.
Therefore, I don't want to start now.
That's strange, it would seem that the character I created next month doesn't have an existing FPE that didn't get taken from it and still functions. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong window. Oh wait, no I'm not, my future characters are just unable to acquire the ship with the boff seating and console layout that I want.
[/end sarcasm]
The "wrong" part isn't that they added something that people only have to pay for if they want it, it's that they removed something that some people DO want.
Seriously though, call me crazy but I don't want the new FPE on my future characters, I want the old one. I like the 4/2/4 console layout better (even though the new boff seating is essentially superior). Now I'm unable to acquire it and I'm pissed off. Cryptic should never retire a ship. Period. Make both versions available under different class names (Maelstrom, Hurricane, whatever).
Joined January 2009
Called it when the Dyson destroyer came out... these ships are the beginning of Tier 6.