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Forums > Home› Star Trek Online General Discussion

New Ship

andihraveyandihravey Member Posts: 132 Arc User
edited May 2014 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
I know that realistically i should put this in the shipyard discussion board, but i cannot remember how to get onto the shipyard forum.

Anyways i was wondering if it was possible to introduce the Allegiance class star ship. Its a really nice looking ship and is a heavy cruiser.

Where the Allegiance really does stand out is its design as it is a cross between the Galaxy class and Sovereign class design. I know it sounds weird but honestly i think it looks fantastic. I knw its a big link but copy and paste that its the google address bar, hit enter and it will show you an image of the ship.

One thing though if the ship was to be introduced i hope they dont ruin it. It should have the same layout as the fleet galaxy dreadnought (minus the cloaking and hanger options). and instead of a commander engineering have a lt cmdr engineer and a lt commander tac. or something along them lines. It is a heavy cruiser, a tac cruiser not an engineering ship.

What do you guys think??????

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=allegiance+starship&biw=1242&bih=585&tbm=isch&imgil=bpMCksaVIeqKfM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcSM0jpZx5J37nKRwEPHDLn6ZqcosFZC7DzH9Hkmnl1-RakvDgrZ%253B400%253B267%253BoMF1n4Ef_I6pzM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ufstarfleet.org%25252Fwiki%25252Findex.php%25253Ftitle%2525253DAllegiance_Class_Starship&source=iu&usg=__Eu-u2AZUEL_j6k221YhDuEFqSbY%3D&sa=X&ei=ZzRiU-LnBo3DPLn_gIAO&ved=0CEQQ9QEwAw#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=3TqTWBN8A9pfxM%253A%3BDJyFqpz36mT-pM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252F3.bp.blogspot.com%252F-aYsvFYqnsOc%252FThIfcVJycoI%252FAAAAAAAADig%252FXi9N--jpuIQ%252Fs1600%252Fallegiance_class.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.thetrekcollective.com%252F2011%252F07%252Fbehind-scenes-on-ships-of-line-2012.html%3B640%3B603
Post edited by andihravey on
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Comments

  • greyhame3greyhame3 Member Posts: 914 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I doubt we'll see something that fan designed.
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Considering the time it took them to get permission to put the fuglyness (also a fan/non-canon design) that is the Vesta class into the game, I think they'd rather continue working on their own designs.

    Too much work, too little reward.

    It is a nice looking ship though.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    pwebranflakes wrote: »
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • admiralcarteradmiralcarter Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    andihravey wrote: »
    I know that realistically i should put this in the shipyard discussion board, but i cannot remember how to get onto the shipyard forum.

    Anyways i was wondering if it was possible to introduce the Allegiance class star ship. Its a really nice looking ship and is a heavy cruiser.

    Where the Allegiance really does stand out is its design as it is a cross between the Galaxy class and Sovereign class design. I know it sounds weird but honestly i think it looks fantastic. I knw its a big link but copy and paste that its the google address bar, hit enter and it will show you an image of the ship.

    One thing though if the ship was to be introduced i hope they dont ruin it. It should have the same layout as the fleet galaxy dreadnought (minus the cloaking and hanger options). and instead of a commander engineering have a lt cmdr engineer and a lt commander tac. or something along them lines. It is a heavy cruiser, a tac cruiser not an engineering ship.

    What do you guys think??????

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=allegiance+starship&biw=1242&bih=585&tbm=isch&imgil=bpMCksaVIeqKfM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcSM0jpZx5J37nKRwEPHDLn6ZqcosFZC7DzH9Hkmnl1-RakvDgrZ%253B400%253B267%253BoMF1n4Ef_I6pzM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ufstarfleet.org%25252Fwiki%25252Findex.php%25253Ftitle%2525253DAllegiance_Class_Starship&source=iu&usg=__Eu-u2AZUEL_j6k221YhDuEFqSbY%3D&sa=X&ei=ZzRiU-LnBo3DPLn_gIAO&ved=0CEQQ9QEwAw#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=3TqTWBN8A9pfxM%253A%3BDJyFqpz36mT-pM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252F3.bp.blogspot.com%252F-aYsvFYqnsOc%252FThIfcVJycoI%252FAAAAAAAADig%252FXi9N--jpuIQ%252Fs1600%252Fallegiance_class.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.thetrekcollective.com%252F2011%252F07%252Fbehind-scenes-on-ships-of-line-2012.html%3B640%3B603

    Love that ship design. There was even a Fan Series based on that called "Star Trek: Odyssey"
    greyhame3 wrote: »
    I doubt we'll see something that fan designed.

    Enterprise-F *cough*
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  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    admiralcarter wrote: »
    Enterprise-F *cough*

    Vesta?

    The above mentioned example is however a special case... It was chosen in a process specifically asking for fan designs... This is the opposite scenario.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    pwebranflakes wrote: »
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • andihraveyandihravey Member Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Actually graham3 it is a cannon ship, it was just never seen. It was orignally going to be the Enterprise E. The story around the ship was that the Enterprise D had been destroyed, the Dominion war was around the corner and they needed a new flag ship, the sovereign class was still on the drawing board. So they were going to combine the galaxy and sovereign class ship design together to make a heavy duty and multi functional ship. But the writers thought that it would be "holding the story back" and showing a lack or progress in the trek universe.

    so the just went ahead with the sovereign, which in a way im glad they did, but on the other hand i think we missed out on a great looking ship.
  • assimilatedktarassimilatedktar Member Posts: 1,708 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    andihravey wrote: »
    Actually graham3 it is a cannon ship, it was just never seen.

    It was never seen (not even as blueprints on some computer screen) = non-canon. Only things that were seen on-screen are canon. Just as it is canon that Starfleet has a ship called the USS Titan that is commanded by William Riker but the Luna-class is not.
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  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    andihravey wrote: »
    Actually graham3 it is a cannon ship, it was just never seen. It was orignally going to be the Enterprise E. The story around the ship was that the Enterprise D had been destroyed, the Dominion war was around the corner and they needed a new flag ship, the sovereign class was still on the drawing board. So they were going to combine the galaxy and sovereign class ship design together to make a heavy duty and multi functional ship. But the writers thought that it would be "holding the story back" and showing a lack or progress in the trek universe.

    so the just went ahead with the sovereign, which in a way im glad they did, but on the other hand i think we missed out on a great looking ship.

    It's not a canon ship unless it was onscreen.
    And how is it supposed to be the original Enterprise-E when the movie First Contact is from 1996 and the design is from 2003?

    http://www.thetrekcollective.com/2011/07/behind-scenes-on-ships-of-line-2012.html
  • sle1989sle1989 Member Posts: 552 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    There would be too many people complaining about it being a "lazy kitbash." People wouldn't buy it because it looks too similar to both the Galaxy and the Sovereign.
    y1arXbh.png

  • andihraveyandihravey Member Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Actually misterde3 the Allegiance was a concept for the first contact movie, and no, no blue prints were ever made, it was a scribbled down idea on a piece of paper but Ronald D. Moore who was a producer on the movie wanted the Allegiance to be the Enterprise E, But Rick Berman and Marty Hornstein turned it down saying that the ship would make it look like very little progress in ship design has been made, Hence it was dropped and we got the sovereign. Marty Hornstein even said this in an interview he did for a magazine just prior to the launch or First contact in the cinemas.

    And if you look at the description of the link you posted it is a "reworking" of something he did back in 2003. So he has read the description somewhere did some drawings and then reworked them. The ship has even been used in some of the star trek odyssey fan fiction programmes and if im not mistaken also in some star trek books
  • doctorfunke1doctorfunke1 Member Posts: 107 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Well the Aventine class is in the same boat as that class, if Cryptic could get the original artist to use it, its been in SOTL calendar for years now, I would buy it.
  • andihraveyandihravey Member Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Sle1989 isnt that the case of the odyssey and Avenger???

    When i look at the odyssey i see a combined intrepid and sovereign ship with a new look. and when i look at the Avenger i see an intrepid and constitution combined ship. The new "dev designed" ships are just 2 ships combined together and then spruced up to look good.

    And to be honest i think there will always be people out there that complain about something. Pvper's kicking off about placate been removed and timers changing

    some pver's complaining about the rep and trai system changning. Role players complaining about the ship layouts.

    its like the game can never win. Its a shame because recently they have been trying really hard and come out with some fantastic stuff and they should be proud of themselves.
  • decroniadecronia Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Doesn't matter if it isn't seen officially on screen it is not canon books and fan flicks are not canon. Then again our character flying alien ships permanently isn't either so the canon/none canon argument was thrown out of the window a long time ago.
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Canon is of cause what is shown on the screen (big or small)... But canon or non-canon isn't the issue here:

    The work belongs to someone else... Cryptic and CBS dosen't own the rights to it (as illustrated by the continuous work done on it), and as such it would work like this (IF they wanted to put it in):

    Cryptic asks PWE for permission
    PWE says yes (for the sake of argument)
    Cryptic asks CBS for permission
    CBS Says yes (for the sake of argument)
    Cryptic tries to find the owner
    Cryptic asks owner (at this point we are AT LEAST a month down the road)
    Cryptic gets permission by owner
    Cryptic asks lawyers to draw up basic agreement...

    you see where this is going right?
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    pwebranflakes wrote: »
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • tenkaritenkari Member Posts: 2,906 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    anazonda wrote: »
    Canon is of cause what is shown on the screen (big or small)... But canon or non-canon isn't the issue here:

    The work belongs to someone else... Cryptic and CBS dosen't own the rights to it (as illustrated by the continuous work done on it), and as such it would work like this (IF they wanted to put it in):

    Cryptic asks PWE for permission
    PWE says yes (for the sake of argument)
    Cryptic asks CBS for permission
    CBS Says yes (for the sake of argument)
    Cryptic tries to find the owner
    Cryptic asks owner (at this point we are AT LEAST a month down the road)
    Cryptic gets permission by owner
    Cryptic asks lawyers to draw up basic agreement...

    you see where this is going right?

    and then at least 6 months after the deal goes through we get said ship... so it can take about a year at minimum from start of negotiations to final product.... assuming it goes quick.
  • andihraveyandihravey Member Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    yea but that doesn't matter. Its been done in the past. The Luna class starship was never actually, but that has made it into the game. And to be honest unless the ship design has been patented then they can use it. But as such all they have to do is contact paramount and CBS to do some background research on if its possible to bring it into the game. (they would need to ask paramount as they were the ones who were going to design the ship back when first contact was been made, and obviously CBS now owns star trek).
  • tenkaritenkari Member Posts: 2,906 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    andihravey wrote: »
    yea but that doesn't matter. Its been done in the past. The Luna class starship was never actually, but that has made it into the game. And to be honest unless the ship design has been patented then they can use it. But as such all they have to do is contact paramount and CBS to do some background research on if its possible to bring it into the game. (they would need to ask paramount as they were the ones who were going to design the ship back when first contact was been made, and obviously CBS now owns star trek).

    the biggest thing is. with Radamaker they got more than just the Vesta, i think they got permission to use all his designs IF they want.

    also, Price is an issue. if PWE/CBS think the cost is way too much for the potential gain, a deal wont be reached no matter what.

    P.S. CBS has always owned the ST IP when it comes to the TV shows. Paramount owns the Movie Rights.

    As for the luna class, yes it was a fan design, but it was a contest much like the Ent-F contest, as CBS now has sole rights to the Luna class, its why it's shown up on the Titan novel covers.
  • andihraveyandihravey Member Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    well, either way, i hope they pick it up and try to bring it out. It would be a nice ship to have
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    andihravey wrote: »
    yea but that doesn't matter. Its been done in the past. The Luna class starship was never actually, but that has made it into the game. And to be honest unless the ship design has been patented then they can use it. But as such all they have to do is contact paramount and CBS to do some background research on if its possible to bring it into the game. (they would need to ask paramount as they were the ones who were going to design the ship back when first contact was been made, and obviously CBS now owns star trek).

    Of cause it matters... What kind of a statement is that? Time invested = money, and labor isn't cheap... Especially not lawyers.

    Quite frankly "that dosen't matter because it's been done before" is a silly argument.

    They'd have to see some serious $$$ on the horizon, to even consider start working on getting the permission to use the ship, and considering that there aren't that many Vestas flying around, it's safe to assume that they did'n really earn that much, especially compared to the Grab-bag ships...

    Based on that, I don't sense the vibe that they are too interested in getting a barely-ever-requested-kitbash ship into the game, when one of the most requested ships on the forums is only met occationally.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    pwebranflakes wrote: »
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    andihravey wrote: »
    Actually misterde3 the Allegiance was a concept for the first contact movie, and no, no blue prints were ever made, it was a scribbled down idea on a piece of paper but Ronald D. Moore who was a producer on the movie wanted the Allegiance to be the Enterprise E, But Rick Berman and Marty Hornstein turned it down saying that the ship would make it look like very little progress in ship design has been made, Hence it was dropped and we got the sovereign. Marty Hornstein even said this in an interview he did for a magazine just prior to the launch or First contact in the cinemas.

    And if you look at the description of the link you posted it is a "reworking" of something he did back in 2003. So he has read the description somewhere did some drawings and then reworked them. The ship has even been used in some of the star trek odyssey fan fiction programmes and if im not mistaken also in some star trek books

    Can you give a source beyond "it was in an interview almost 20 years ago"?

    And if you read the same stuff I read it states:

    "D.M. Pheonix explains how this image is a reworking of something he did back in 2003, featuring his own design, the USS Allegiance, a hybrid of the Galaxy and Sovereign classes."

    not "featuring something Ron Moore scribbled down".
    It's also strange that this ship is supposed to be based on plans that you yourself said don't exist. Which basically means it's impossible for the Allegiance to be based on it since nobody has seen it.

    Also, D.M. Phoenix claims intellectual ownership over his material:

    http://www.phoenixium.com/CG02/annualstarship.htm

    http://www.phoenixium.com/CG03/DMP_Terminal_Descent_Of_The_Allegiance.htm

    All image content of Phoenixium.Com are copyright property of D. M. Phoenix and may not be used in any other site or publication.

    so it seems he doesn't even know he supposedly based his ship on something Moore drew.
  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited May 2014
    misterde3 wrote: »
    It's not a canon ship unless it was onscreen.
    And how is it supposed to be the original Enterprise-E when the movie First Contact is from 1996 and the design is from 2003?

    http://www.thetrekcollective.com/2011/07/behind-scenes-on-ships-of-line-2012.html

    To be Canon does not mean it has to be seen on a pc or movie screen

    Any ship design approved by gene roddenbury is also Canon..Hard canon

    3 manuals are full of canon starships approved by GR the fasa klingon ...Romulaan and fed ship manuals
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
  • daan2006daan2006 Member Posts: 5,346 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    unless was in show or movies its not canon and that the end of that

    also CBS decided what is canon and not
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  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    jellico1 wrote: »

    To be Canon does not mean it has to be seen on a pc or movie screen

    Any ship design approved by gene roddenbury is also Canon..Hard canon

    3 manuals are full of canon starships approved by GR the fasa klingon ...Romulaan and fed ship manuals

    Lol... that theory again...
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    pwebranflakes wrote: »
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • tenkaritenkari Member Posts: 2,906 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    jellico1 wrote: »

    To be Canon does not mean it has to be seen on a pc or movie screen

    Any ship design approved by gene roddenbury is also Canon..Hard canon

    3 manuals are full of canon starships approved by GR the fasa klingon ...Romulaan and fed ship manuals

    however, the FASA created ships belong to someone else and cannot be used, CBS doesnt own those designs.
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    jellico1 wrote: »

    To be Canon does not mean it has to be seen on a pc or movie screen

    Any ship design approved by gene roddenbury is also Canon..Hard canon

    3 manuals are full of canon starships approved by GR the fasa klingon ...Romulaan and fed ship manuals

    Nope, they're not. Hence why Cryptic can't use them.
    Also, from what I read about it Roddenberry had precisely zero to do with the FASA materials and did all he could to get the RPG and Starship Combat Simulator canceled because he didn't like the militaristic overtones of that game.
  • chiyoumikuchiyoumiku Member Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Love that design. And No Fan Design? Uhm, Rademaker had to design the Vesta from scratch based purely on words in a book and Lets not forget the two Enterprise Contest designs, Oddy and Chimera.
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  • decroniadecronia Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    chiyoumiku wrote: »
    Lets not forget the two Enterprise Contest designs, Oddy and Chimera.

    Let's not forget the trouble that followed that. Hence why I think they have avoided doing it since.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited May 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    decronia wrote: »
    Let's not forget the trouble that followed that. Hence why I think they have avoided doing it since.

    The problem with those ships were us (the players), not the designers... The willingly and knowingly "gifted" their designs to Cryptic in that contest, removing 95%'is of the legal problems involved.


    This is an entirely different problem.

    But yes: They defnetly burned themselves on that one
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    pwebranflakes wrote: »
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • greyhame3greyhame3 Member Posts: 914 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    admiralcarter wrote: »
    Enterprise-F *cough*

    Okay, to clarify since people seem to be taking things a bit too literally.

    I doubt we'll see a fan designed ship again.
  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited May 2014
    tenkari wrote: »
    however, the FASA created ships belong to someone else and cannot be used, CBS doesnt own those designs.

    That is correct cryptic wont buy the rights so cryptic cant use the designs

    There still hard Canon ships approved by the creator of star trek and will be forever

    And they look better than any trash cryptic has created lol

    The last klingon /romulan science vessels being the exception very nice looking designs
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
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