Early TNG was as guilty as Voyager when it came to the prime directive, ironically the less Gene was involved the more sensible it got with TNG.
And by more sensible you mean it became the gun shield excuse of the admiralty?
That is internal to the Klingons, we will not back any one for anything because, you know we would have to help. Prime Directive
Let a race die because we can't interfere? (Changed their minds there but sheesh.)
We can take a world from people because we want it and we claim the area. They know about warp drive so the prime directive doesn't apply.
If I have one gripe on the Federation it is the Prime Directive seems to be a catch all excuse not a clearly defined guide.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
And by more sensible you mean it became the gun shield excuse of the admiralty?
That is internal to the Klingons, we will not back any one for anything because, you know we would have to help. Prime Directive
Let a race die because we can't interfere? (Changed their minds there but sheesh.)
We can take a world from people because we want it and we claim the area. They know about warp drive so the prime directive doesn't apply.
If I have one gripe on the Federation it is the Prime Directive seems to be a catch all excuse not a clearly defined guide.
of course its not a clearly defined guide, it can't be. The universe is too complex, It is used to keep federation resources out of unnecessary entanglements. Mostly to stop well meaning idiots from using their cultural views to mess up a society.
Like that TRIBBLE guy from tos. But it is insane to let millions upon millions suffer and die so a few hundred Baku can be young for centuries. Cause the Baku don't have viable population, and their son'a kids the Healing vibes on their on is not enough to help them.
The Prime Directive, is better gone into by SF debris on Blip tv.
of course its not a clearly defined guide, it can't be. The universe is too complex, It is used to keep federation resources out of unnecessary entanglements. Mostly to stop well meaning idiots from using their cultural views to mess up a society.
Like that TRIBBLE guy from tos. But it is insane to let millions upon millions suffer and die so a few hundred Baku can be young for centuries. Cause the Baku don't have viable population, and their son'a kids the Healing vibes on their on is not enough to help them.
The Prime Directive, is better gone into by SF debris on Blip tv.
The problem with saying it is fine to take the Baku world from them means that the Federation should have done the same in the first Mirror episode of TOS as well. The dilithium deposits they had could be used to help millions.
Same arguement can be said of any mineral rich world. The not conquering to take the resources of a world because they can is what separates the Federation from the Romulan Empire. (I would like to think the honourable Klingon Empire would not dirty their hands killing pacifists.)
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
And by more sensible you mean it became the gun shield excuse of the admiralty?
That is internal to the Klingons, we will not back any one for anything because, you know we would have to help. Prime Directive
Let a race die because we can't interfere? (Changed their minds there but sheesh.)
We can take a world from people because we want it and we claim the area. They know about warp drive so the prime directive doesn't apply.
If I have one gripe on the Federation it is the Prime Directive seems to be a catch all excuse not a clearly defined guide.
No I mean it went from Picard being a jumped up prick about things like a child dieing to them using it more in like with don't TRIBBLE with non warp travel species or internal matters of another race like the KDF civil war between Gowron and Duras.
As others have said though the dodgy writing over the years has made it a get out of plot free card only to be disregarded when it is convenient again.
SFDebris has an excellent peace on the prime directive and he explains it far better than I can though it is a 15 min long video.
Same arguement can be said of any mineral rich world. The not conquering to take the resources of a world because they can is what separates the Federation from the Romulan Empire. (I would like to think the honourable Klingon Empire would not dirty their hands killing pacifists.)
I think Kor was more than willing to execute Organians to prove how ruthless the Klingons could be. I won't spoil any more of the episode, but I think watching some of those TOS Klingon episodes will debunk the idea that killing civilians is beneath the dignity of a Klingon.
Ahh yes, those TOS Klingons.. which have been retconned to being failed augment virus victims.
((with the associated proclivity towards over aggressive behavior... not something that would generally be noted by Klingons...Kor did get to deal with a bit of dissapointment later ...))
The one thing I can say for certain, and it ties right in with the Roddenberry vision and meem, and its been said by many a scifi author.
"The universe is not as starange as we can imagine, its a damd sight stranger!"
And my favorite..
"Aliens are alien!"
Klingons are not human.. They are klingons.
My main character these days is Orion, and Female.. Yep, she does dress provocativly from time to time as appropriate for the situation, But she's also a General of the Klingon Defence Forces and has at her beck and call some of the very finest ships in the Klingon fleet inventory. She is a warrior of the empire, who just happens to be Orion and female. And she is a heir to a warror tradion that predates the Klingons, the Vulcan... and the Hur'q! (only a fraction of racial orions are involved with the cartels.. yet of course everyone assumes...) The Orions had thier intersteller empire long ago, and had thier experiments with augmentation (just where do you think the Orion pheremone trick came from anyway? Not also they provided equipment to doctor Sung to do his augmention work..translation.. they all ready not only had the equipment but it was more sophisticated then what would be the Federation had available!
(see Enterprise)
The Klingon Empire is an empire, and racial Klingons are the governing body of the empire.. But Klingons are neither stupid, or particularly racist... All the evidence from TNG, and DS-9 show them to be somewhat more..ohhhh... cosmopolitan then most has assumed, and far more accepting of racial differences. If your willing to fight for what you want, if your willing to lay it on the line, and proof of the same is seen, then the Klingons will almost always give you a big grin, and politly step out of the way . (for a Klingon)
Pay less attention to what Klingons say.. pay attention to what they DO!
The KDF ambassador to the federation.. Gorn
Omega task force inititive headed by a KLINGON general, not a federation admiral.
Infiltration of the Alpha and Beta quadrants by changling spies during the war against the founders and cardassia revealed by KLINGON investigation.
Undine infiltration of the Alpha and Beta quadrant revieled by Klingon investigation.
In STO current timeline (from DS-9 forward) I can think of at least 3 seperate instances where Klingon intervention may have well have saved the civilizations of the Alpha and Beta quadrants while the Federation dithered and chased its tail.
Klingons as a whole repect the Federation but wonder WHY and space going civilization would saddle its self with such an in-effective government! I really tends to irritate them.
Ahh yes, those TOS Klingons.. which have been retconned to being failed augment virus victims.
((with the associated proclivity towards over aggressive behavior... not something that would generally be noted by Klingons...Kor did get to deal with a bit of dissapointment later ...))
The one thing I can say for certain, and it ties right in with the Roddenberry vision and meem, and its been said by many a scifi author.
"The universe is not as starange as we can imagine, its a damd sight stranger!"
And my favorite..
"Aliens are alien!"
Klingons are not human.. They are klingons.
My main character these days is Orion, and Female.. Yep, she does dress provocativly from time to time as appropriate for the situation, But she's also a General of the Klingon Defence Forces and has at her beck and call some of the very finest ships in the Klingon fleet inventory. She is a warrior of the empire, who just happens to be Orion and female. And she is a heir to a warror tradion that predates the Klingons, the Vulcan... and the Hur'q! (only a fraction of racial orions are involved with the cartels.. yet of course everyone assumes...) The Orions had thier intersteller empire long ago, and had thier experiments with augmentation (just where do you think the Orion pheremone trick came from anyway? Not also they provided equipment to doctor Sung to do his augmention work..translation.. they all ready not only had the equipment but it was more sophisticated then what would be the Federation had available!
(see Enterprise)
The Klingon Empire is an empire, and racial Klingons are the governing body of the empire.. But Klingons are neither stupid, or particularly racist... All the evidence from TNG, and DS-9 show them to be somewhat more..ohhhh... cosmopolitan then most has assumed, and far more accepting of racial differences. If your willing to fight for what you want, if your willing to lay it on the line, and proof of the same is seen, then the Klingons will almost always give you a big grin, and politly step out of the way . (for a Klingon)
Pay less attention to what Klingons say.. pay attention to what they DO!
The KDF ambassador to the federation.. Gorn
Omega task force inititive headed by a KLINGON general, not a federation admiral.
Infiltration of the Alpha and Beta quadrants by changling spies during the war against the founders and cardassia revealed by KLINGON investigation.
Undine infiltration of the Alpha and Beta quadrant revieled by Klingon investigation.
In STO current timeline (from DS-9 forward) I can think of at least 3 seperate instances where Klingon intervention may have well have saved the civilizations of the Alpha and Beta quadrants while the Federation dithered and chased its tail.
Klingons as a whole repect the Federation but wonder WHY and space going civilization would saddle its self with such an in-effective government! I really tends to irritate them.
General Kuiama "Kui" del Solima sends.
I thought D'vak is an Admiral, he just dresses in KDF gear. As For the Klingons revealing changlings on cardassia, proved to be inconclusive, and it was revealed that not only Martok was a changling that the KDF and the Maquis pasting the cardies is what drove them into the arms of the dominion.
The Klingons are very federation like in their assumption of their own correctness, without the federations tendency for self reflection.
The Klinks have the bad habit of being Aggressive and Ethnocentric, and this seems to make the enemies, the Gorn, the Cardassians, Federation, the Romulans.
This is further exposited in the Tyhon pact series, in which the Gorn, The Tholians, the Romuans, The Breen, the Kinsharaa and the Tzenkehi all group up to create a Federation-esque alliance.
When the Fed characters point out some of the TRIBBLE the Pact pulls as ask why more fed friendly pack members like the Gorn Hegemony and the Romulan Star Empire, why they are apart of the pact, 2 points always come up.
The Fedration's monopoly on Quantum Slipstream
The Klingons Aggressiveness, The Roms and the Gorn fear a Slipstream capable Empire.
The problem with saying it is fine to take the Baku world from them means that the Federation should have done the same in the first Mirror episode of TOS as well. The dilithium deposits they had could be used to help millions.
Same arguement can be said of any mineral rich world. The not conquering to take the resources of a world because they can is what separates the Federation from the Romulan Empire. (I would like to think the honourable Klingon Empire would not dirty their hands killing pacifists.)
No its not,
the Benefit of a few thousand (If that) versus killing off out a native viable population is very different.
The Baku are going extinct if they live on that world, in a few generations, and the Federation has moved (Forcibly) larger populations of Federation citizens for political expediency.
Mineral rich worlds are not uncommon, its a planet, heavy industrial favorable minerals and elements coagulate as big or small stellar bodies. If it was something unique only to that planet the Federation most likely wouldn't need it.
Obvious exceptions being the Cure everything vibes of the Baku planet.
the Benefit of a few thousand (If that) versus killing off out a native viable population is very different.
The Baku are going extinct if they live on that world, in a few generations, and the Federation has moved (Forcibly) larger populations of Federation citizens for political expediency.
Mineral rich worlds are not uncommon, its a planet, heavy industrial favorable minerals and elements coagulate as big or small stellar bodies. If it was something unique only to that planet the Federation most likely wouldn't need it.
Obvious exceptions being the Cure everything vibes of the Baku planet.
First, they have several generations before they even need to worry at all about the kind of damage you mention. The growth rate seems incredibly slow. Most likely they do not have children on a whim, but choose to do so in clumps so the young will grow up with peers. But the population does not show signs of geometric growth you would expect from three-hundred years of colonization.
Yanking them from that world and telling them to now breed or die however will hasten their deaths.
Further, as I stated previously and elsewhere, if you do not understand the technology of the collector how do you know 'Life spans will be extended' 'New forms of medicine invented' and so forth? You are shooting the source of the fountain of youth to bottle the water faster and not worrying if maybe you are going to break the fountain.
And please before you say they understand what will happen and it is harmless to the rings. They do not know, they don't understand the technology a bunch of 'thugs' that seem to be aligned with the Dominion want to use on this unique resource.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
the reason why this is happening actually deeply sleeps in the core of "StarTrek" as franchise itself.
though claiming to be humanitarian and politically progressive, startrek is full of "racism towards species". where a speciaes ALWAYS is descripbed or pictured as somehow beeing "stereotypic specisism" so "good old starfleet" can show the "progressivness" they and only THEY have.
i think this happened kind of like an accident, by trying to make a story promoting versatility and variety you somehow fall in the loophole of creating stereotypes accidentally. this was heavy in TNG.
i read a article about that making clear points in the picturing and description of "worf within the starfleet" as a character on the enterprise, that was clearly the black joke person of startrek.
(remember the first episode, where picard has to CONSTANTLY take his war-dog worf down to just not kill each and everything? - thats "racism" (or specisism, if you like) at its finest.
everytime worf gets in contact with his own species he kind of failes even basic rules of starfleet and humans, even though he was raised by humans. (kind of projecting the thought, that behavior is 100% genetic, which is wrong)
this all is coming from a misunderstood kind of progressiveness and social stereotypes, i think its acidentally, but its still there and really interesting as a topic, cause startrek nevertheless is kind of a milestone in humanism.
the reason why this is happening actually deeply sleeps in the core of "StarTrek" as franchise itself.
though claiming to be humanitarian and politically progressive, startrek is full of "racism towards species". where a speciaes ALWAYS is descripbed or pictured as somehow beeing "stereotypic specisism" so "good old starfleet" can show the "progressivness" they and only THEY have.
i think this happened kind of like an accident, by trying to make a story promoting versatility and variety you somehow fall in the loophole of creating stereotypes accidentally. this was heavy in TNG.
i read a article about that making clear points in the picturing and description of "worf within the starfleet" as a character on the enterprise, that was clearly the black joke person of startrek.
(remember the first episode, where picard has to CONSTANTLY take his war-dog worf down to just not kill each and everything? - thats "racism" (or specisism, if you like) at its finest.
everytime worf gets in contact with his own species he kind of failes even basic rules of starfleet and humans, even though he was raised by humans. (kind of projecting the thought, that behavior is 100% genetic, which is wrong)
this all is coming from a misunderstood kind of progressiveness and social stereotypes, i think its acidentally, but its still there and really interesting as a topic, cause startrek nevertheless is kind of a milestone in humanism.
That depends on the point of view because aliens in Star Trek seem to be the incarnation of one particular human trait in order to perform morality plays. I think the baic concept Gene Rodenberry envisioned was something along the lines of alien people suffers in some way from terrible human aspects (racism, greed, warmongering etc.) and Starfleet and the UFP persuade them to abandon the destructive behaviour and they eventually join the UFP wich is supposed to be the utopian society that evolved beyond that in order to work together for a better future.
That of course seemed more and more strange the further the show progressed to a point that even the actors considered it strange. The more fleshed out Klingons we know today are the result of Michael Dorn expanding his character on the show, I don't know wether we would have gotten "evolved" Klingons with Gene still on board
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
That depends on the point of view because aliens in Star Trek seem to be the incarnation of one particular human trait in order to perform morality plays. I think the baic concept Gene Rodenberry envisioned was something along the lines of alien people suffers in some way from terrible human aspects (racism, greed, warmongering etc.) and Starfleet and the UFP persuade them to abandon the destructive behaviour and they eventually join the UFP wich is supposed to be the utopian society that evolved beyond that in order to work together for a better future.
That of course seemed more and more strange the further the show progressed to a point that even the actors considered it strange. The more fleshed out Klingons we know today are the result of Michael Dorn expanding his character on the show, I don't know wether we would have gotten "evolved" Klingons with Gene still on board
The trick is, if you spend enough time with a species the hat generally has to come off because otherwise you run out of plots. Hence why, while (for example) the Cardassian hat is basically patriotism and service to the State, how that hat applies wanders all over the place: From Dukat paying lip-service to it to cover feeding his own ego, to Aamin Marritza ("Duet"), who tried to martyr himself to get Cardassia to fess up to its war crimes ... for the good of Cardassia.
Similarly the Klingons. You go from your basic drunken violent @sshole Klingon who pays lip-service to honor to provide an excuse for being a drunken violent @sshole, to Worf, who views honor as an ideal to be striven for as hard as Klingonly possible but never reached (and as a result other Klingons think the rod up his butt has a rod up its butt, if you'll pardon the Simpsons reference), to Martok, an old, pragmatic soldier who likes a fight as much as any other Klink once it starts but doesn't go out of his way to start them.
And then you've got complete outliers like the Klingon chef, who's the most unthreatening Klingon you will ever meet in your life.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Ditto. The whole idea of a tubby Klingon who plays the accordion is just made of win.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
First, they have several generations before they even need to worry at all about the kind of damage you mention. The growth rate seems incredibly slow. Most likely they do not have children on a whim, but choose to do so in clumps so the young will grow up with peers. But the population does not show signs of geometric growth you would expect from three-hundred years of colonization.
Yanking them from that world and telling them to now breed or die however will hasten their deaths.
Further, as I stated previously and elsewhere, if you do not understand the technology of the collector how do you know 'Life spans will be extended' 'New forms of medicine invented' and so forth? You are shooting the source of the fountain of youth to bottle the water faster and not worrying if maybe you are going to break the fountain.
And please before you say they understand what will happen and it is harmless to the rings. They do not know, they don't understand the technology a bunch of 'thugs' that seem to be aligned with the Dominion want to use on this unique resource.
They age normally until puberty It was mentioned in the movie, So no itheir problems are not long ways away
And those thugs are Baku, so there are big disagreements within there community, Its not breed now our die. It is just die they are going extinct there is noting that will stop that. may be mass cloning (Which just prolongs things like in Masterpiece Society) or some future genetic therapy, which would have to stop the problems with inbreeding.
As for it not working, the Son'a faction of the Baku wanted to save there lives. If the Boonie baku can attempt to fix data, likely the Thug Son'a new what they were doing.
If they just wanted to hurt the baku a Kinetic strike with a big space rock would do just nicely.
They age normally until puberty It was mentioned in the movie, So no itheir problems are not long ways away
And those thugs are Baku, so there are big disagreements within there community, Its not breed now our die. It is just die they are going extinct there is noting that will stop that. may be mass cloning (Which just prolongs things like in Masterpiece Society) or some future genetic therapy, which would have to stop the problems with inbreeding.
As for it not working, the Son'a faction of the Baku wanted to save there lives. If the Boonie baku can attempt to fix data, likely the Thug Son'a new what they were doing.
If they just wanted to hurt the baku a Kinetic strike with a big space rock would do just nicely.
Interesting, who wanted a duck blind to map the Baku village and move them without hurting them? How many Son'a argued against letting them die when they fired the weapon to collect the radiation of life? Please tell me how they were being merciful again?
And please offer some counter arguement why the Son'a were to be trusted, at all.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
They age normally until puberty It was mentioned in the movie, So no itheir problems are not long ways away
And those thugs are Baku, so there are big disagreements within there community, Its not breed now our die. It is just die they are going extinct there is noting that will stop that. may be mass cloning (Which just prolongs things like in Masterpiece Society) or some future genetic therapy, which would have to stop the problems with inbreeding.
As for it not working, the Son'a faction of the Baku wanted to save there lives. If the Boonie baku can attempt to fix data, likely the Thug Son'a new what they were doing.
If they just wanted to hurt the baku a Kinetic strike with a big space rock would do just nicely.
Sorry to double post here. But right after I had another thought. The Baku are in no danger if they stay. But have a high probability of death if they leave.
And the reason is the magic rings again. Geordi is blind because of a genetic defect. The same kinds of things you will find in inbreeding. But just being in the area regenerated eyes he did not have genetic coding to be functional.
I got that after trying to do the math for there to be only 600 Baku after 300 years and with only half the population having one child per pair (25% growth) We get too big for the colony population with a starting colony of only 100. So something is up there.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Interesting, who wanted a duck blind to map the Baku village and move them without hurting them? How many Son'a argued against letting them die when they fired the weapon to collect the radiation of life? Please tell me how they were being merciful again?
And please offer some counter arguement why the Son'a were to be trusted, at all.
One of them did the second in command, and if they wanted to hurt them Rock + Space solves there problem. They needed Star Fleets industrial capabilities to do the tech tech with the ring.
as for how many Baku would have died, a few hundred? I chuck inconsistencies up to bad writing. It was not a well crafted story.
Comments
And by more sensible you mean it became the gun shield excuse of the admiralty?
That is internal to the Klingons, we will not back any one for anything because, you know we would have to help. Prime Directive
Let a race die because we can't interfere? (Changed their minds there but sheesh.)
We can take a world from people because we want it and we claim the area. They know about warp drive so the prime directive doesn't apply.
If I have one gripe on the Federation it is the Prime Directive seems to be a catch all excuse not a clearly defined guide.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
of course its not a clearly defined guide, it can't be. The universe is too complex, It is used to keep federation resources out of unnecessary entanglements. Mostly to stop well meaning idiots from using their cultural views to mess up a society.
Like that TRIBBLE guy from tos. But it is insane to let millions upon millions suffer and die so a few hundred Baku can be young for centuries. Cause the Baku don't have viable population, and their son'a kids the Healing vibes on their on is not enough to help them.
The Prime Directive, is better gone into by SF debris on Blip tv.
The problem with saying it is fine to take the Baku world from them means that the Federation should have done the same in the first Mirror episode of TOS as well. The dilithium deposits they had could be used to help millions.
Same arguement can be said of any mineral rich world. The not conquering to take the resources of a world because they can is what separates the Federation from the Romulan Empire. (I would like to think the honourable Klingon Empire would not dirty their hands killing pacifists.)
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
No I mean it went from Picard being a jumped up prick about things like a child dieing to them using it more in like with don't TRIBBLE with non warp travel species or internal matters of another race like the KDF civil war between Gowron and Duras.
As others have said though the dodgy writing over the years has made it a get out of plot free card only to be disregarded when it is convenient again.
SFDebris has an excellent peace on the prime directive and he explains it far better than I can though it is a 15 min long video.
http://blip.tv/sf-debris-opinionated-reviews/prime-directive-analysis-5638650
I think Kor was more than willing to execute Organians to prove how ruthless the Klingons could be. I won't spoil any more of the episode, but I think watching some of those TOS Klingon episodes will debunk the idea that killing civilians is beneath the dignity of a Klingon.
((with the associated proclivity towards over aggressive behavior... not something that would generally be noted by Klingons...Kor did get to deal with a bit of dissapointment later ...))
The one thing I can say for certain, and it ties right in with the Roddenberry vision and meem, and its been said by many a scifi author.
"The universe is not as starange as we can imagine, its a damd sight stranger!"
And my favorite..
"Aliens are alien!"
Klingons are not human.. They are klingons.
My main character these days is Orion, and Female.. Yep, she does dress provocativly from time to time as appropriate for the situation, But she's also a General of the Klingon Defence Forces and has at her beck and call some of the very finest ships in the Klingon fleet inventory. She is a warrior of the empire, who just happens to be Orion and female. And she is a heir to a warror tradion that predates the Klingons, the Vulcan... and the Hur'q! (only a fraction of racial orions are involved with the cartels.. yet of course everyone assumes...) The Orions had thier intersteller empire long ago, and had thier experiments with augmentation (just where do you think the Orion pheremone trick came from anyway? Not also they provided equipment to doctor Sung to do his augmention work..translation.. they all ready not only had the equipment but it was more sophisticated then what would be the Federation had available!
(see Enterprise)
The Klingon Empire is an empire, and racial Klingons are the governing body of the empire.. But Klingons are neither stupid, or particularly racist... All the evidence from TNG, and DS-9 show them to be somewhat more..ohhhh... cosmopolitan then most has assumed, and far more accepting of racial differences. If your willing to fight for what you want, if your willing to lay it on the line, and proof of the same is seen, then the Klingons will almost always give you a big grin, and politly step out of the way . (for a Klingon)
Pay less attention to what Klingons say.. pay attention to what they DO!
The KDF ambassador to the federation.. Gorn
Omega task force inititive headed by a KLINGON general, not a federation admiral.
Infiltration of the Alpha and Beta quadrants by changling spies during the war against the founders and cardassia revealed by KLINGON investigation.
Undine infiltration of the Alpha and Beta quadrant revieled by Klingon investigation.
In STO current timeline (from DS-9 forward) I can think of at least 3 seperate instances where Klingon intervention may have well have saved the civilizations of the Alpha and Beta quadrants while the Federation dithered and chased its tail.
Klingons as a whole repect the Federation but wonder WHY and space going civilization would saddle its self with such an in-effective government! I really tends to irritate them.
General Kuiama "Kui" del Solima sends.
I thought D'vak is an Admiral, he just dresses in KDF gear. As For the Klingons revealing changlings on cardassia, proved to be inconclusive, and it was revealed that not only Martok was a changling that the KDF and the Maquis pasting the cardies is what drove them into the arms of the dominion.
The Klingons are very federation like in their assumption of their own correctness, without the federations tendency for self reflection.
The Klinks have the bad habit of being Aggressive and Ethnocentric, and this seems to make the enemies, the Gorn, the Cardassians, Federation, the Romulans.
This is further exposited in the Tyhon pact series, in which the Gorn, The Tholians, the Romuans, The Breen, the Kinsharaa and the Tzenkehi all group up to create a Federation-esque alliance.
When the Fed characters point out some of the TRIBBLE the Pact pulls as ask why more fed friendly pack members like the Gorn Hegemony and the Romulan Star Empire, why they are apart of the pact, 2 points always come up.
The Fedration's monopoly on Quantum Slipstream
The Klingons Aggressiveness, The Roms and the Gorn fear a Slipstream capable Empire.
No its not,
the Benefit of a few thousand (If that) versus killing off out a native viable population is very different.
The Baku are going extinct if they live on that world, in a few generations, and the Federation has moved (Forcibly) larger populations of Federation citizens for political expediency.
Mineral rich worlds are not uncommon, its a planet, heavy industrial favorable minerals and elements coagulate as big or small stellar bodies. If it was something unique only to that planet the Federation most likely wouldn't need it.
Obvious exceptions being the Cure everything vibes of the Baku planet.
First, they have several generations before they even need to worry at all about the kind of damage you mention. The growth rate seems incredibly slow. Most likely they do not have children on a whim, but choose to do so in clumps so the young will grow up with peers. But the population does not show signs of geometric growth you would expect from three-hundred years of colonization.
Yanking them from that world and telling them to now breed or die however will hasten their deaths.
Further, as I stated previously and elsewhere, if you do not understand the technology of the collector how do you know 'Life spans will be extended' 'New forms of medicine invented' and so forth? You are shooting the source of the fountain of youth to bottle the water faster and not worrying if maybe you are going to break the fountain.
And please before you say they understand what will happen and it is harmless to the rings. They do not know, they don't understand the technology a bunch of 'thugs' that seem to be aligned with the Dominion want to use on this unique resource.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
though claiming to be humanitarian and politically progressive, startrek is full of "racism towards species". where a speciaes ALWAYS is descripbed or pictured as somehow beeing "stereotypic specisism" so "good old starfleet" can show the "progressivness" they and only THEY have.
i think this happened kind of like an accident, by trying to make a story promoting versatility and variety you somehow fall in the loophole of creating stereotypes accidentally. this was heavy in TNG.
i read a article about that making clear points in the picturing and description of "worf within the starfleet" as a character on the enterprise, that was clearly the black joke person of startrek.
(remember the first episode, where picard has to CONSTANTLY take his war-dog worf down to just not kill each and everything? - thats "racism" (or specisism, if you like) at its finest.
everytime worf gets in contact with his own species he kind of failes even basic rules of starfleet and humans, even though he was raised by humans. (kind of projecting the thought, that behavior is 100% genetic, which is wrong)
this all is coming from a misunderstood kind of progressiveness and social stereotypes, i think its acidentally, but its still there and really interesting as a topic, cause startrek nevertheless is kind of a milestone in humanism.
That depends on the point of view because aliens in Star Trek seem to be the incarnation of one particular human trait in order to perform morality plays. I think the baic concept Gene Rodenberry envisioned was something along the lines of alien people suffers in some way from terrible human aspects (racism, greed, warmongering etc.) and Starfleet and the UFP persuade them to abandon the destructive behaviour and they eventually join the UFP wich is supposed to be the utopian society that evolved beyond that in order to work together for a better future.
That of course seemed more and more strange the further the show progressed to a point that even the actors considered it strange. The more fleshed out Klingons we know today are the result of Michael Dorn expanding his character on the show, I don't know wether we would have gotten "evolved" Klingons with Gene still on board
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The trick is, if you spend enough time with a species the hat generally has to come off because otherwise you run out of plots. Hence why, while (for example) the Cardassian hat is basically patriotism and service to the State, how that hat applies wanders all over the place: From Dukat paying lip-service to it to cover feeding his own ego, to Aamin Marritza ("Duet"), who tried to martyr himself to get Cardassia to fess up to its war crimes ... for the good of Cardassia.
Similarly the Klingons. You go from your basic drunken violent @sshole Klingon who pays lip-service to honor to provide an excuse for being a drunken violent @sshole, to Worf, who views honor as an ideal to be striven for as hard as Klingonly possible but never reached (and as a result other Klingons think the rod up his butt has a rod up its butt, if you'll pardon the Simpsons reference), to Martok, an old, pragmatic soldier who likes a fight as much as any other Klink once it starts but doesn't go out of his way to start them.
And then you've got complete outliers like the Klingon chef, who's the most unthreatening Klingon you will ever meet in your life.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I loved that guy!
Ditto. The whole idea of a tubby Klingon who plays the accordion is just made of win.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
http://www.klingonmusic.net/klingon-musical-instruments/susdeq/mayron/
Because Klingons don't buy accordions, Klingons hunt down their accordions! :P
Which reminds me of Baron Greenback having his henchmen hunt bagpipes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P5mkAS0AU0
It is an honor to play that creatures ribs in such a fashion!
They age normally until puberty It was mentioned in the movie, So no itheir problems are not long ways away
And those thugs are Baku, so there are big disagreements within there community, Its not breed now our die. It is just die they are going extinct there is noting that will stop that. may be mass cloning (Which just prolongs things like in Masterpiece Society) or some future genetic therapy, which would have to stop the problems with inbreeding.
As for it not working, the Son'a faction of the Baku wanted to save there lives. If the Boonie baku can attempt to fix data, likely the Thug Son'a new what they were doing.
If they just wanted to hurt the baku a Kinetic strike with a big space rock would do just nicely.
Interesting, who wanted a duck blind to map the Baku village and move them without hurting them? How many Son'a argued against letting them die when they fired the weapon to collect the radiation of life? Please tell me how they were being merciful again?
And please offer some counter arguement why the Son'a were to be trusted, at all.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Sorry to double post here. But right after I had another thought. The Baku are in no danger if they stay. But have a high probability of death if they leave.
And the reason is the magic rings again. Geordi is blind because of a genetic defect. The same kinds of things you will find in inbreeding. But just being in the area regenerated eyes he did not have genetic coding to be functional.
I got that after trying to do the math for there to be only 600 Baku after 300 years and with only half the population having one child per pair (25% growth) We get too big for the colony population with a starting colony of only 100. So something is up there.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
One of them did the second in command, and if they wanted to hurt them Rock + Space solves there problem. They needed Star Fleets industrial capabilities to do the tech tech with the ring.
as for how many Baku would have died, a few hundred? I chuck inconsistencies up to bad writing. It was not a well crafted story.