a lot of what is written here makes next to no sense.
some things in the galaxy you just cant overcome, borg cant adapt to what they do not know, thats why they assimilate to gain knowledge, even if the borg had a skin tight forcefield all one person with a tr rifle would need to do is to adjust the transport location from just outside the body to just inside and its game over. it would be like stating from your point of view that the borg can walk through molten rock or warp plasma, better still anti matter because they assimilated anti matter into the collective and understand its thoughts... dont be silly.
Well individual drones have displayed the ability to prevent beaming... And Kinetic energy is not unknown to the Collective.
But yes: Certain things are just not something the individual borg can't adapt to ever... I Doubt a bullet that is beamed is one of them.
At same time: Targeting the surface of a moving target is relatively simple... Thats still "sorta" in 2D... But aiming at a moving target, just below the shileds... I think that would be no laughing matter.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
I just don't think the Borg have ever prioritized kinetic damage as a threat.
Or their shield technology is so geared towards remodulation that adapting it to kinetic damage is a technical impossibility.
Simply put, a Borg shield is not corporeal, which is why physical objects or particles pass right through it.
As for space, the Borg have internal implants that provide them with oxygen and (presumably) heat, so it's not a function of their shield.
And why the Borg vessels aren't damaged by physical objects in space, they use deflectors like any other vessel to push the space debris out of the way.
But apparently, that doesn't protect you if your enemy intends to ram you on purpose!
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
I just don't think the Borg have ever prioritized kinetic damage as a threat.
Or their shield technology is so geared towards remodulation that adapting it to kinetic damage is a technical impossibility.
Simply put, a Borg shield is not corporeal, which is why physical objects or particles pass right through it.
I tend to agree. But that still does not exclude the possibility of them developing anti-kinetic shields, when needed.
As for space, the Borg have internal implants that provide them with oxygen and (presumably) heat, so it's not a function of their shield.
That wouldn account for the cellular destruction that results from space radiation.
And why the Borg vessels aren't damaged by physical objects in space, they use deflectors like any other vessel to push the space debris out of the way.
But apparently, that doesn't protect you if your enemy intends to ram you on purpose!
Obviously their deflectors could be used on a minimum setting. This would deflect the average floating objects, but would'n be able to stop a ship at full impulse or warp. Now also obviously this would "Only" a question of pumping up the powerflow to the deflectors.
Reply/confirmation in orange
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
About the cellular damage, it could be possible that the Borg nanites are continually repairing the damage from space radiation, as it was shown onscreen they do have the ability to reconstruct damaged organic tissue.
I'm assuming radiation damage in space is a slow process.
I'm assuming however, this would not be enough to cope with the instant disintegration of organic tissue from Thalaron radiation.
You can't repair organic tissue if it's not there anymore.
And now that I think about it, there is one canon example of the Borg having EMP problems.
When Doctor Phlox is infected with Borg nanites, he exposes himself to a high level electromagnetic field to "kill" the nanites.
Also, it might be possible Borg are vulnerable to electric shock as well, given that their implants are circuit pathways.
But I think shocking them requires direct contact with their implants, as in using a taser or a shockprod.
The only case I've seen of this is when the Borg Queen sent an electric charge to 7 of 9's alcove and shocked her severely, as a warning to stop interfering with the Collective.
Chakotay also used a similar tactic to sever her connection to the Borg hivemind, but somehow, he sent the charge to her remotely.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Heat is also energy, so of course, again in theory, it's possible to walk through molten lava.
So is an exploding cube. There have to be some limits and I don't think that molten rock is going to be stopped by a bit of green light.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Isn't there a book where seven of nine suggests using thalaron against the Borg but Geordie laforge refuses to build a weapon?
Problem with books are, that they are even less reliable than canon... At least the roads in the shows/movies aren't forked enough that you still can't explain certain inconsistencies.
After all, theres a book where the Enterprise is a gigant blob of Terminator T-1000 that can spawn any of the previous Enterprises from it's own mass.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
Obviously there are ways to safely store and shield antimatter, otherwise most starships would explode before leaving space dock. Therefore, in theory, it's possible to have a personal anti-antimatter shield !
*cough* Artificial gravity, anyone? Just continuously generate a high-mass zone in the center of the antimatter storage and you're done.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
It's, as you not surprisingly point out, not uncommon to see kinetic energy destroy borg, but as you may have forgotten, space is filled with different kinds of debris (from microscopic particles, to asteroid fragments and ship debris from destroyed ships). These seem to have no effect on borg ships... Yet: Kinetic energy.
That is why ships have navigational deflectors, Borg, Romulan, Federation or Klingon though they are not so obvious on all vessels. Borg cube, Vor'cha class , Negh'var D'Deridex ect
That is why ships have navigational deflectors, Borg, Romulan, Federation or Klingon though they are not so obvious on all vessels. Borg cube, Vor'cha class , Negh'var D'Deridex ect
The discussion went further a few posts up...
Also, The Galaxy Class deflector could stop lasers... Riker laughed and pointed that out in a TNG episode, so it's clearly not just adding a counter force to debris.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
That is why ships have navigational deflectors, Borg, Romulan, Federation or Klingon though they are not so obvious on all vessels. Borg cube, Vor'cha class , Negh'var D'Deridex ect
Then explain why the nav deflector didn't stop a Jem bug from reducing the USS Odyssey to free hydrogen. Or the various Klingon ships they rammed head-on at First Chin'toka and Cardassia Prime.
Either the nav deflector is very weak (which is impossible because that would make it useless at warp speeds, defeating its primary function), or they leave it switched off during combat unless they need technobabble (possibly to save on power).
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Then explain why the nav deflector didn't stop a Jem bug from reducing the USS Odyssey to free hydrogen. Or the various Klingon ships they rammed head-on at First Chin'toka and Cardassia Prime.
Either the nav deflector is very weak (which is impossible because that would make it useless at warp speeds, defeating its primary function), or they leave it switched off during combat unless they need technobabble (possibly to save on power).
It might be a size thing, there would be no need to move say an asteroid or comet as sensors could detect them already so you know not to fly into them (plus if it was that much of a threat blow it up with torps)
There is also LT. Reeds comment in ENT about how a spec of dust would punch a hole in the ship the size of a fist suggests the deflector is used for stopping smaller particles that a ship would have difficulty flying around or detecting.
The Odyssey's deflector must of been on though as it was lit up and it was what got rammmed, exploding and taking the rest of the ship with it. Its possible that the Odyssey might of survived had they rammed the saucer or the engineering hull.
If only the Borg had assimilated Romulans and a Scimitar, they would..... oh, wait, they did. Problem solved. Thalaron is on file !
The problem with the Borg is, they dont consider romulans as a threat, and they never had to face thalaron radiation, so they never developed strategies against that. In fact the only species that the Borg consider a threat are the Undine, and Starfleet, because Federation dedicated decades to develop strategies and weapons to fight em. So the Borg realized that the Federation was a real danger to em, more than Romulans, klingons or any other specie (except Undine). After that, STO arrives, and the Borg is "angry" against all of em. No matter wat lol.
Um, what is that meant to be?
I kept getting an illegal message to update Flash player!
I use NoScript with Firefox and I sometimes get this message too. What it seems to mean is:
Either: You have to temporarily allow the website's scripts (you either have to temporarily allow the entire website or allow each script individually until the video appears), watch the video, close your browser, and when you open your browser again your NoScript website allowances should be back to normal. (I underlined "temporarily" on purpose -- you don't have to permanently allow scripts to run unless you wish them to.) Somewhere in your browser window (I'm not sure where it is in yours; it's near the upper right corner in mine), the "icon" for NoScript is a dark S within a solid white circle. Move your mouse cursor onto it and a menu will immediately drop down. That's where the website's scripts will be listed, both the allowed ones (those will say "forbid" in front of them) and the forbidden ones (those will say "allow" in front of them).
Or (if that isn't the case): Go to http://www.adobe.com, download and install the latest version of Flash Player, then go to the video's website and try to watch it again.
The problem with the Borg is, they dont consider romulans as a threat, and they never had to face thalaron radiation, so they never developed strategies against that. In fact the only species that the Borg consider a threat are the Undine, and Starfleet, because Federation dedicated decades to develop strategies and weapons to fight em. So the Borg realized that the Federation was a real danger to em, more than Romulans, klingons or any other specie (except Undine). After that, STO arrives, and the Borg is "angry" against all of em. No matter wat lol.
What saved the Romulans from the Borg was a writers strike. :cool:
Well that particular scenario has never been proven in canon... And still, one would think that if they can create personal forcefields that defend against space, they could adjust that to resist a certain amount of kinetic force as well. Even the tommy-gun from FC (Remember... Picard only shot 2 borg...)
Considering that Worf tinkered with a combadge to create a shield to block kinetic bullets, I would bet the Borg would be able to do so if everyone started firing bullets at them. Exactly how effective it would end up being is up for debate.
We know shields were no help against Thalaron radiation in Nemesis, but thalaron radiation was only theoretically known by the Federation. In the decades since, as thalaron weapons became more common, adjustments to shield technology may have allowed shields to be somewhat effective.
While borg eventually succumb to cold temperatures, being able to neutralize a concentrated burst of cryonic material would take only a sliver of the energy needed to keep the drone warm in a hostile climate. Thus, the borg could adapt to a particular weaponized use of cold material, while still being vulnerable (like all organisms) to brute-force cold.
Take a look at my Foundry missions! Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
I would guess it would have the same effect on them the warp coolant in first contact. It would destroy the organic parts, and since Borg depend on those too it would kill the Borg.
And if forcefields could protect against that the scimitar in Nemesis wouldn't have been such a big issue...
Watch the movie again and you'll notice that Shinzon doesn't deploy it until the Enterprise's shields are disabled.
Watch the movie again and you'll notice that Shinzon doesn't deploy it until the Enterprise's shields are disabled.
Not exactly conclusive evidence. He also didn't deploy it until after his own conventional weapons, which were doing a pretty good job battering the Ent-E to pieces, were disabled.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Also, The Galaxy Class deflector could stop lasers... Riker laughed and pointed that out in a TNG episode, so it's clearly not just adding a counter force to debris.
'Deflector' was often used for both the shields (deflector shields) and the navigational deflector. The technologies appear to be somewhat similar. It is clear that both can deflect debris, and that the shields at least can protect against radiation and directed energy attacks.
The TNG tech manual interpretation is that they both use fields of gravitons focused and held in place by subspace distortions. In fact, the tech manual suggests this is the basis for most force field devices, from the SIF field to tractor beams.
So if gravity itself can bend light, graviton force fields can conceivably diffuse a concentrated beam of light to the point that it is useless as a weapon. But a more direct application of graviton force would bounce objects out of the way.
Take a look at my Foundry missions! Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
So if gravity itself can bend light, graviton force fields can conceivably diffuse a concentrated beam of light to the point that it is useless as a weapon.
One very big problem with that approach is if you were generating a gravity well strong enough to bend light, you'd have just created an artificial black hole, therefore your ship would both be pulled inside and crushed to the size of a sardine can!
And energy weapons aren't beams of light, at least in Star Trek they aren't.
They're focused energy beams with higher density then light.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Comments
Well individual drones have displayed the ability to prevent beaming... And Kinetic energy is not unknown to the Collective.
But yes: Certain things are just not something the individual borg can't adapt to ever... I Doubt a bullet that is beamed is one of them.
At same time: Targeting the surface of a moving target is relatively simple... Thats still "sorta" in 2D... But aiming at a moving target, just below the shileds... I think that would be no laughing matter.
Or their shield technology is so geared towards remodulation that adapting it to kinetic damage is a technical impossibility.
Simply put, a Borg shield is not corporeal, which is why physical objects or particles pass right through it.
As for space, the Borg have internal implants that provide them with oxygen and (presumably) heat, so it's not a function of their shield.
And why the Borg vessels aren't damaged by physical objects in space, they use deflectors like any other vessel to push the space debris out of the way.
But apparently, that doesn't protect you if your enemy intends to ram you on purpose!
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Reply/confirmation in orange
I'm assuming radiation damage in space is a slow process.
I'm assuming however, this would not be enough to cope with the instant disintegration of organic tissue from Thalaron radiation.
You can't repair organic tissue if it's not there anymore.
And now that I think about it, there is one canon example of the Borg having EMP problems.
When Doctor Phlox is infected with Borg nanites, he exposes himself to a high level electromagnetic field to "kill" the nanites.
Also, it might be possible Borg are vulnerable to electric shock as well, given that their implants are circuit pathways.
But I think shocking them requires direct contact with their implants, as in using a taser or a shockprod.
The only case I've seen of this is when the Borg Queen sent an electric charge to 7 of 9's alcove and shocked her severely, as a warning to stop interfering with the Collective.
Chakotay also used a similar tactic to sever her connection to the Borg hivemind, but somehow, he sent the charge to her remotely.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
So is an exploding cube. There have to be some limits and I don't think that molten rock is going to be stopped by a bit of green light.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Problem with books are, that they are even less reliable than canon... At least the roads in the shows/movies aren't forked enough that you still can't explain certain inconsistencies.
After all, theres a book where the Enterprise is a gigant blob of Terminator T-1000 that can spawn any of the previous Enterprises from it's own mass.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
That is why ships have navigational deflectors, Borg, Romulan, Federation or Klingon though they are not so obvious on all vessels. Borg cube, Vor'cha class , Negh'var D'Deridex ect
The discussion went further a few posts up...
Also, The Galaxy Class deflector could stop lasers... Riker laughed and pointed that out in a TNG episode, so it's clearly not just adding a counter force to debris.
Then explain why the nav deflector didn't stop a Jem bug from reducing the USS Odyssey to free hydrogen. Or the various Klingon ships they rammed head-on at First Chin'toka and Cardassia Prime.
Either the nav deflector is very weak (which is impossible because that would make it useless at warp speeds, defeating its primary function), or they leave it switched off during combat unless they need technobabble (possibly to save on power).
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Thalaron should be completely dangerous against Undine. :cool:
It might be a size thing, there would be no need to move say an asteroid or comet as sensors could detect them already so you know not to fly into them (plus if it was that much of a threat blow it up with torps)
There is also LT. Reeds comment in ENT about how a spec of dust would punch a hole in the ship the size of a fist suggests the deflector is used for stopping smaller particles that a ship would have difficulty flying around or detecting.
The Odyssey's deflector must of been on though as it was lit up and it was what got rammmed, exploding and taking the rest of the ship with it. Its possible that the Odyssey might of survived had they rammed the saucer or the engineering hull.
The problem with the Borg is, they dont consider romulans as a threat, and they never had to face thalaron radiation, so they never developed strategies against that. In fact the only species that the Borg consider a threat are the Undine, and Starfleet, because Federation dedicated decades to develop strategies and weapons to fight em. So the Borg realized that the Federation was a real danger to em, more than Romulans, klingons or any other specie (except Undine). After that, STO arrives, and the Borg is "angry" against all of em. No matter wat lol.
I use NoScript with Firefox and I sometimes get this message too. What it seems to mean is:
Either: You have to temporarily allow the website's scripts (you either have to temporarily allow the entire website or allow each script individually until the video appears), watch the video, close your browser, and when you open your browser again your NoScript website allowances should be back to normal. (I underlined "temporarily" on purpose -- you don't have to permanently allow scripts to run unless you wish them to.) Somewhere in your browser window (I'm not sure where it is in yours; it's near the upper right corner in mine), the "icon" for NoScript is a dark S within a solid white circle. Move your mouse cursor onto it and a menu will immediately drop down. That's where the website's scripts will be listed, both the allowed ones (those will say "forbid" in front of them) and the forbidden ones (those will say "allow" in front of them).
Or (if that isn't the case): Go to http://www.adobe.com, download and install the latest version of Flash Player, then go to the video's website and try to watch it again.
I hope this makes sense.
What saved the Romulans from the Borg was a writers strike. :cool:
They didn't have to worry about the 7-10 split.
Considering that Worf tinkered with a combadge to create a shield to block kinetic bullets, I would bet the Borg would be able to do so if everyone started firing bullets at them. Exactly how effective it would end up being is up for debate.
We know shields were no help against Thalaron radiation in Nemesis, but thalaron radiation was only theoretically known by the Federation. In the decades since, as thalaron weapons became more common, adjustments to shield technology may have allowed shields to be somewhat effective.
While borg eventually succumb to cold temperatures, being able to neutralize a concentrated burst of cryonic material would take only a sliver of the energy needed to keep the drone warm in a hostile climate. Thus, the borg could adapt to a particular weaponized use of cold material, while still being vulnerable (like all organisms) to brute-force cold.
Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
My character Tsin'xing
Not exactly conclusive evidence. He also didn't deploy it until after his own conventional weapons, which were doing a pretty good job battering the Ent-E to pieces, were disabled.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
My character Tsin'xing
'Deflector' was often used for both the shields (deflector shields) and the navigational deflector. The technologies appear to be somewhat similar. It is clear that both can deflect debris, and that the shields at least can protect against radiation and directed energy attacks.
The TNG tech manual interpretation is that they both use fields of gravitons focused and held in place by subspace distortions. In fact, the tech manual suggests this is the basis for most force field devices, from the SIF field to tractor beams.
So if gravity itself can bend light, graviton force fields can conceivably diffuse a concentrated beam of light to the point that it is useless as a weapon. But a more direct application of graviton force would bounce objects out of the way.
Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Or with this or this.
One very big problem with that approach is if you were generating a gravity well strong enough to bend light, you'd have just created an artificial black hole, therefore your ship would both be pulled inside and crushed to the size of a sardine can!
And energy weapons aren't beams of light, at least in Star Trek they aren't.
They're focused energy beams with higher density then light.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad