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New undine rep sets too OP?
phalanx01
Member Posts: 360 Arc User
Right before all of you start throwing tomatoes at me hear me out;
I've been keeping an eye on the new Undine rep items. They're powerful, too powerful even. You need to balance the sets so they actually keep themselves in line with the previous rep sets and also the Elite items you can get from Fleet Stores. Otherwise what the heck is the point in even wasting time gathering resources for anything but the new Undine rep items?
I'd like to see bright and clear how:
1) The previous rep sets are being upgraded to fall in line with the new Undine rep sets. And believe you me, ALL of those things will need a severe boost to even compare with the new items especially the useless Tholian set.
2) Show me the plans to upgrade Fleet items to compete with the new items as in better stats for shields, engines, deflectors and more balanced weaponry. And don't forget the ground items. A lot of people did a lot of grinding and investing in order to get their items, people that don't have the time to pr0-grind the new items from day 1 so to speak.
3) Further balancing will have to happen to get the Undine stuff to even become comparable to other items. We'll need to see some better results on the previous sets first obviously but that also means that the set bonuses for the previous sets need to be reworked. Isn't that a lot of work just because you add 1 too overly powerful set? Come on Cryptic, use your wits why don't you?
I like getting new content even if it's a grind towards the same goals again. I like the kit changes. Hell I'll even learn to like the new crappy copy/paste battlefields. I don't like the current plans I see on tribble for a set that is so powerful it'll dominate the rest of em easily. At least the Dyson items could still fall in their own category even if they were fairly OP compared to some previous sets. It was manageable.
I've been keeping an eye on the new Undine rep items. They're powerful, too powerful even. You need to balance the sets so they actually keep themselves in line with the previous rep sets and also the Elite items you can get from Fleet Stores. Otherwise what the heck is the point in even wasting time gathering resources for anything but the new Undine rep items?
I'd like to see bright and clear how:
1) The previous rep sets are being upgraded to fall in line with the new Undine rep sets. And believe you me, ALL of those things will need a severe boost to even compare with the new items especially the useless Tholian set.
2) Show me the plans to upgrade Fleet items to compete with the new items as in better stats for shields, engines, deflectors and more balanced weaponry. And don't forget the ground items. A lot of people did a lot of grinding and investing in order to get their items, people that don't have the time to pr0-grind the new items from day 1 so to speak.
3) Further balancing will have to happen to get the Undine stuff to even become comparable to other items. We'll need to see some better results on the previous sets first obviously but that also means that the set bonuses for the previous sets need to be reworked. Isn't that a lot of work just because you add 1 too overly powerful set? Come on Cryptic, use your wits why don't you?
I like getting new content even if it's a grind towards the same goals again. I like the kit changes. Hell I'll even learn to like the new crappy copy/paste battlefields. I don't like the current plans I see on tribble for a set that is so powerful it'll dominate the rest of em easily. At least the Dyson items could still fall in their own category even if they were fairly OP compared to some previous sets. It was manageable.
Post edited by phalanx01 on
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It happens but rarely. I just hope they look at the current issue with these sets. I'm not saying nerf the living TRIBBLE out of it, I'm just putting it on the table that they need to keep things in a relative balance. Either they slightly nerf the new Undine set or bring the older sets up to spec alongside them, but can't stop there they need to take another look at Fleet items as well...
However you look at it, I doubt that the balancing will be even remotely done in time for S9s launch and by the looks of things so will the bugfixing take a lot longer then the week or so they've got left for launch.
Cryptic if anything, consider at least delaying S9 another week or so or show us the new test build you've got before pushing this to holodeck. All I'm hearing about S9 testers from tribble is bugs, unbalanced mess and a lot of boring copy/paste content. And what I've seen on tribble doesn't exactly thrill me either...
Okay, maybe you could show which items are too powerful in which way? Because so far I am only interested in two Undine set parts (heavy turret and biomolecular torpedo) for one of my mains. Nothing makes me go "Oh TRIBBLE I have to replace all my stuff."
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
I believe his/her main concern is the +5 inertia and +10 defense that may be obtained by using the space set. The deflector is also extremely beneficial in terms of offensive weapon damage. That said, this set is not a good choice if your goal is tanking enemy damage.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Allright, let's start with the ground armor;
http://imgur.com/a/4jRiw#5 That's a screenie of the current armor stats for ground. The Dyson armor is the only one that can even compare with it, it's got some very insane resistances and the +30% physical damage is just too much. The rest of the stats are too great a boost as well compared to the Honor Guard/MACO armor. The armor that was previously the "best" ground physical damage armor was in all fairness and logic the Shatter Harmonics Tholian set. Seen it lately? Compared it to this one? Yeah, why the heck should you still grind out that set then? Sword is still pretty I suppose but that's it.
Space set which I suppose is most important to people then:
http://imgur.com/a/yqzct
On this page please note the 2nd picture and look at the deflector array. Granted it's "minor" stats aren't really that uber OP however they do knock the living light out of the previous sets. +5% Accuracy is also a bit dubious on this item alone. I'm not advocating a general nerf of this item mind you, I'd just like to see bonuses and stats like these on other items be they set or fleet items. +5% Acc to ALL weapons is a severe bonus to give from a deflector array alone.
Also mind the console on the same picture, the Hydrodynamics Compensator. True, the flat bonuses to Aux and Engine power aren't too mindblowing but take a little look at the other stats that it buffs up. Again a accuracy boost. Yes it's a seperate set then the space engines, deflector and shield set but still it again adds a nice boost to Acc. The flight turn ratio makes it a fairly darn good addition as well. The only console I can think of that can throw in a balance measure is the Romulan console. Again, not advocating a nerf, merely trying to show that the other consoles could do with a much needed boost, not the little dabble we've seen so far on some of the sets.
I can honestly live with the space weapons especially the torpedo launcher, they seem to be more or less in line with the current goodies we've got. But again, the previous sets could do with a little boost here and there as well.
Let's just say that we need a big revamp of the previous sets so to keep it in line with the current trends. Omega/HG armor is horribly outdated, the only reason I still use the set is because of the insta-remod. If it wasn't for that I honestly wouldn't know why anyone would have to bother grinding it up at all. Same for the Tholian items.
I am not being unreasonable here and I'm more then willing to show you even more points where I feel there's issues with but I'm fairly certain that by following my logic on these points you see where I'm going with saying that OP is something that balance can easily fix.
It isn't a question of adapting at all. Why are you so blind to the obvious? This is a balance issue that goes back a long time since they started adding the reputation items. It's time Cryptic wakes up and takes a long, hard look at the older sets.
And you make a good point, Aegis... why hasn't it gotten it's much needed boost yet? It's horribly outdated. Again, I'm not advocating a huge nerf of everything, I'm pointing out that it's high time to turn back and look at the previous item sets. I used to love aegis on my cruiser until it pretty much became a useless set to remember the "good old times" by.
However mixing and matching of pieces can lead to some potency potential gains, but that isn't unusual for most MMO's equipment/sets.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Aegis is a good shuttle set. Still, I hope that the set playing field is leveled out.
Geez, and it hasn't even come out on Holodeck yet and the stats were known for a month now from Tribble.
And you cant compare the tholian ground set with this one, since that one has a EV suit, NOT an armor...
Like someone else said here, adapt.
I still have the aegis set equipped in a cheap mirror ship and can take it for a spin and do any PvE content with no trouble, the same goes for any rep item in the game. Some items might be more powerful than others for general use, but that is nothing new... if the new gear isn't better than the last one what is the point of getting it?
As for Cryptic even considering balancing it with the older sets, well, their track record for that isn't that great... *points at the Fleet Star Cruiser collecting dust in the shipyard*.
1.) Make a new set better than old sets
2.) Make a new set same/worse than old sets.
They figure most players have the old ones so #2 means no one will bother with the new set; whereas #1 means people will go for it and play/grind STO. Cryptic's only concerns are 'butts in chairs' and Zen sales. So they will always take Option #1. Power Creep FTW. We can only hope that the power creep is minimal.
Sounds like something my alt with the Galaxy-X will replace her Aegis with. But my 3 mains will stick with Solanae, Adapted MACO/Borg and Borg.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
The only thing that is concerning about this set is the two piece bonus providing +5% Critical chance, +10% Weapon damage, and a major boost to the set weapon proc. My main concern on that though is the +5% Critical chance. You could potentially stack the full Omega Force set for the three piece bonus with the Counter-Command two piece bonus (Kit ability + Weapon) for a very high critical bonus. The three piece bonus is trivial for ground combat because of the three minute cooldown. The four piece bonus will only provide a useful bonus while fighting Species 8472 or the Borg. The set bonus would be balanced if they were to make Bio-Molecular Conduits a three piece bonus while dropping Unstable Bio-Molecular Personal Shield down to two piece status (and lowering the cooldown to something like 90 seconds).
Now the weapon proc, 146.1 radiation damage with shield bypass, could potentially be a very serious game breaker for Ground PvP. This is especially true if the proc is amplified by tactical buffs. Players don't have radiation resistances, which means it will be quite possible to oneshot someone through the use of this proc if it is buffable by tactical buffs.
The deflector sacrifices normal defensive and science bonuses for tactical bonuses. I'd say that is pretty well balanced.
The Hydrodynamics Compensator is on par with the Nukara Particle Converter, Assimilated Module, Zero Point Energy Conduit, and the Proton Particle Stabilizer. All four existing consoles provide a power bonus, a ~50% of normal stat bonus to one skill, and either a critical bonus or a second ~50% of normal stat bonus to one skill.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
The 5% crit chance bonus is a welcome bonus in fact. Sure your concerns are valid for tac mainly, but for sci and engies they arent. Consider the rep crit nerf-nerf (I mean here, after the 4/4/4 system was announed, the 3% passive was balanced to 5% then afterwards it was nerfed to 4% crit chance). Also the nerf of the omega ground set stacking wich came a few months ago. Also the new global CD on equiping stims/ground consumables. Its a pain to buff now with just a few items...
And the 10% Weapon damage is not that big. On the Dyson set even with +15% weapon damage the increase is small, if I remember it was like 5 dps increase or something like that...
As for the weapon proc, from 5% to 7% is a small increase, since there are set weapons that have extra procs with 10% or even 15% chance...
Can this be confirmed please? I have been grinding out Fleet Credits on my Romulan for a change to Disruptor but if the DMG bonus is removed I will stick with AP.
For the ground set, I won't bother, I don't like situational items, without an instant remod the whole set is pointless and a two piece equally so if the weapon has a energy DOT proc. I would be more inclined to experiment with kits if there was a infinite charge instant remodulator "device", until then my MACO kit will work just fine.
Thank you, looks like I am sticking with APs then!
Thx alot for the pic.
Damm, its sad that the so much expected phaser buff set its now gone
This kinda takes all the incentive to get the weapon set now. Was planning this set for an andorian escort but not so much now.
This nerf also makes you wonder if the HY torpedo from the set will remain not-targetable and as powerfull at S9 launch as it was advertised in the First Contact Day FE.
Okay, let's look at that Deflector Array, eh?
+5% Accuracy
You still can't chase Defense with Accuracy. So how about what it provides when looking at Accuracy Overflow for those targets you're not chasing Defense. +2.4% CrtD & +0.6% CrtH.
+8.8 Starship Energy Weapon Training
Each point is worth 0.5% damage strength/boost to base damage. So you're looking at a 4.4% boost to Energy Weapon damage. Less than equipping a Mk III Common Tac Console.
+17.5 Starship Projectile Weapon Training
Each point is worth 0.5% damage strength/boost to base damage. So you're looking at a 8.75% boost to Projectile Weapon damage. Less than equipping a Mk VI Common Tac Console.
+17.5 Starship Structural Integrity
Each point is worth ~3.03% base hull. Even on an Advanced Obelisk (800 Lobi variant), that's going to be less than 1500 hull.
+8.8 Starship Shield System
Each point is worth ~3.03% base shield cap. On a Palisade with a 1.45 shield mod and the CC/Undine Shields - that's going to get you ~344 shield cap. With a 0.9 shield mod, you're looking at ~213 shield cap.
+17.5 Starship Inertial Dampers
Per the vonamicus charts, you're not even looking at a 9% reduction from this. It's not even having Rank 1 in the skill.
+26.2 Starship Particle Generator
Per the vonamicus charts, you're looking at a ~13% increase on average in damage from this...if you've actually got anything that uses it.
Now let's all reach for the Excedrin after the epic /facepalm in calling that OP, eh? :rolleyes:
5 fleet tac consoles: +159.5%
Console 62: +11.4%
KHG 2 piece: +25%
Protonic arsenal: +22.9%
Counter command Ordnance: + 25%
So with the new Undine stuff my total should be +243.8% damage for photon torpedoes. That's effing insane. Then the new bio photon torps do shield ignoring radiation damage? I'm already at the point where I can kill people with just torpedoes and photon mines.
Tch tch tch. Also the +10% crit rate with photon weapons, then we have to factor in the tholian T4 rep aux to weapons passive, and that new Undine deflector. Now add attack pattern alpha and tactical team... Yep I see a disaster coming.
Is no longer there...
edit: Removed the rest, forgot I had T4 Nukara Offensive slotted which accounted for the 0.33% increase seen because of the +3 boost to Aux.
I don't know if it's their overlords that holds a Samurai sword over each employee's head, but it's common sense. If you're creating a new set of weapons and gear, that obviously over power the previous generations. It's common sense to upgrade the previous generations. Find something that'll make each set and/or generation different.
I just looked at the pictures posted in the previous threads and all I could say was a bunch of 4 letter words. It's to early in the morning (8am Easter U.S. Time) for me to be this pissed off a the blatant power creep.
I understand that new items gives people a reason to grind. I understand the PWE overlords only know how to make players grind for things. I understand the need ot make money. But I don't understand how they can continue to disrespect the history of Star Trek with this garbage. I don't understand how they can continue to make each season's content more powerful than the previous, but yet not fix any bugs that have plagued us for more than 2 years. I don't understand how they also ignore how pathetic these NPC's are compared to the new uber-powerful weapons they keep releasing. I mean when 1 Scimitar or even 1 Tactical ship can solo the Vortex, something is wrong. Their's no need for team work.
have a good day everyone, I'm late for work. smh....
When did they change this, last time i saw +15% disruptor damage on 2 piece bonus?
On the other hand..... speed tanking is the most broken thing in this game, even beyond A2B technicians..... does it need a boost?