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Securing my PvP Bona Fides
rck01
Member Posts: 808 Arc User
"You can't pvp without your A2B crutch..."
"You only win because of the FAW/DEM OP bs..."
"Come back without A2B and some cannons and we'll see how well you do..."
These are the kinds of comments I'v been hearing over and over again in Ker'rat zone chat, et al, for the better part of a year. It seems that, in order to be accepted as a "real" PvP player in this game, you need to prove your ability to fight *without* any of the common game mechanic "crutches" that have become so prevalent - namely, BFAW, DEM and A2B.
As a premier exploiter of all of those mechanics, I've received more than my fair share of derisive comments from veteran PvP players who try to dismiss my "skills" while simultaneously challenging me to win (or at least be effective) without my BFAW/DEM-loving A2B tricks.
Normally, I brush off these insults as the whining of players who can't or won't think outside of the traditional PvP "box." But one player's comments, in particular, got stuck in my "craw" (so to speak), and I finally decided I'd had enough of the taunting. One way or another, I was going to prove myself to this idiot (and the larger PvP community)...or die trying.
So, for the past few days I've been flying the following around Ker'rat and the queues:
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=rckhironoa2breva_0
Note: Doff selection included 3 Purple DCEs, 2 Purple APs and 1 Purple AMS. No Keel'el or RSP doff - just pure CD reduction and resist boosts.
Net result: A lot of dead (or nearly dead) Klingons and Romulans. In fact, I fared much better than I expected I would considering I rarely, if ever, use cannons in PvP. Much credit goes to the Hirogen Hunter Heavy Escort, which is just a wonderful platform on which to build a PvP fighter.
Bottom Line: After killing a bunch of Ker'rat regulars in straight-up dogfights, and after battling one of my most vocal detractors to a standstill (nearly killed him more than once - my BO3 shot is nasty) in an epic, 7-10 min long match over the Cracked Planetoid, I warped out of the warzone knowing I had finally established my own PvP bona fides.
To my tormentor (and new friend), "HissyFit," I say: Thanks for pushing my buttons...and also for the kind words of respect you PM'd me after I'd risen to your challenge.
And as for the rest of you mongrels, I will now go back to using WHATEVER DAMNED build and game mechanics that please me, secure in the knowledge that - if the need arises - I can always dust-off my trusty, non-A2B Hunter build and whoop your asses up and down Eta Eridani.
RCK
"You only win because of the FAW/DEM OP bs..."
"Come back without A2B and some cannons and we'll see how well you do..."
These are the kinds of comments I'v been hearing over and over again in Ker'rat zone chat, et al, for the better part of a year. It seems that, in order to be accepted as a "real" PvP player in this game, you need to prove your ability to fight *without* any of the common game mechanic "crutches" that have become so prevalent - namely, BFAW, DEM and A2B.
As a premier exploiter of all of those mechanics, I've received more than my fair share of derisive comments from veteran PvP players who try to dismiss my "skills" while simultaneously challenging me to win (or at least be effective) without my BFAW/DEM-loving A2B tricks.
Normally, I brush off these insults as the whining of players who can't or won't think outside of the traditional PvP "box." But one player's comments, in particular, got stuck in my "craw" (so to speak), and I finally decided I'd had enough of the taunting. One way or another, I was going to prove myself to this idiot (and the larger PvP community)...or die trying.
So, for the past few days I've been flying the following around Ker'rat and the queues:
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=rckhironoa2breva_0
Note: Doff selection included 3 Purple DCEs, 2 Purple APs and 1 Purple AMS. No Keel'el or RSP doff - just pure CD reduction and resist boosts.
Net result: A lot of dead (or nearly dead) Klingons and Romulans. In fact, I fared much better than I expected I would considering I rarely, if ever, use cannons in PvP. Much credit goes to the Hirogen Hunter Heavy Escort, which is just a wonderful platform on which to build a PvP fighter.
Bottom Line: After killing a bunch of Ker'rat regulars in straight-up dogfights, and after battling one of my most vocal detractors to a standstill (nearly killed him more than once - my BO3 shot is nasty) in an epic, 7-10 min long match over the Cracked Planetoid, I warped out of the warzone knowing I had finally established my own PvP bona fides.
To my tormentor (and new friend), "HissyFit," I say: Thanks for pushing my buttons...and also for the kind words of respect you PM'd me after I'd risen to your challenge.
And as for the rest of you mongrels, I will now go back to using WHATEVER DAMNED build and game mechanics that please me, secure in the knowledge that - if the need arises - I can always dust-off my trusty, non-A2B Hunter build and whoop your asses up and down Eta Eridani.
RCK
Post edited by rck01 on
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Comments
FAW is OP, plz nerf
A2B is OP, plz nerf
DEM is OP, plz nerf
Marion is OP, plz nerf
DPS is OP, plz nerf
Leech is OP, plz nerf
Crit is OP, plz nerf
Lockboxes are OP, plz nerf
Cheese is OP, plz nerf
Cloak is OP, plz nerf
Nerf is OP, plz supper bost
Explot is OP, plz Star Citizen
STO is OP, plz other games
Season X is OP, plz old school.
Rylana is OP, plz buff.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Hirogen Hunter is OP, plz nerf :P
Derrick - Fed Eng
Single cannons are OP, plz.... wait wut?
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Got the idea from Hek'lar and his bug build. The wider firing arc means more damage on target vs. speedy opponents in a high-turn-rate fight. Seems to work well - doesn't have the "punch" of DCs or DHCs, but at least I'm landing something while we're "jousting" endlessly back and forth.
RCK
You can pry my hunter from my cold, dea....<bzzt><beep><...end transmission...source terminated...>
RCK
I don't know. I guess it would depend on my opponent: Would he/she be similarly hobbled with a non-fleet shield? Because right now Ker'rat and the queues are awash in fleet shields, with the occasional Solonae, Borg or end-game Omega set thrown in for good measure.
Of course, we're now starting down that slippery slope where people keep asking "could you do it without xyz" until you're left with nothing by duct tape, twine and a paper clip.
But this brings up the larger issue of gear and the cost to do PvP the "right" way as defined by the elites and their groupies. For example, my Hunter escort is a fairly OP rig thanks to the inclusion of lots of end-game and fleet gear - all of which I had to grind for, I might add, as I'm strictly F2P.
If you break-down the cost of assembling such a ship:
1. Hunter Escort = 75m EC on exchange (or the luck of the draw in a Hirogen Lock Box).
2. Doffs = 85m EC on exchange (2 AP doffs, 3 DCE doffs, 1 AMS doff)
3. Elite Fleet Resilient Res B Shield = 65K FC + 25,500 Dil
4. Advanced Fleet Weapons (x6) = 20K FC + 8500 Dil (per weapon)
5. Enhanced Fleet Neutronium = 50K FC + 8500 Dil
6. Enhanced Fleet RCS = 50K FC + 8500 Dil
7. Borg Mk 12 Deflector = Omega T5 Rep + 32,500 Dil + various other items and marks
8. Borg Mk 12 Engine = Omega T5 Rep + 32,500 Dil + various other items and marks
9. Borg Cutting Beam = Omega T2 Rep + 15,000 Dil + various other items and marks
10. Borg Assim. Module = Omega T1 Rep + 15,000 Dil + various other items and marks
11. Romulan Embassy Boffs (x2) = 60,000 FC + 20,000 Dil (each)
12. Nukara Particle Converter = Nukara T2 Rep + 15,000 Dil + various other items and marks
13. Zero Point Module = Romulan T2 Rep + 15,000 Dil + various other items and marks
14. Plasmonic Leech = 22m EC on exchange
15. Elite Fleet Warp Core = 65,000 FC + 25,500 Dil
16. Fleet Spire Locators (x4) = 50,000 FC + 9,500 Dil (each)
17. Fleet Spire 6th Doff Slot = 150K FC
Totals (don't fault me if I added something incorrectly):
EC Costs: 182m
Dil Costs: 288K
FC Costs: 820K
I don't know about you, but to me the above constitutes a brutal grind - literally months of ESTFs (done every mission hundreds of times by now), Fleet Actions, Rep Grind Missions, Dil Farming, EC Farming, etc.
When you consider the cost to assemble a ship that does PvP the "right" way, it becomes clear why so many opt for the easy route of Aux2Batt and its free Tech doffs (via B'Tran). Done the "right" way the doff costs alone can run over 100m EC (assuming you want to have Keel'el and perhaps an RSP doff on standby), placing it well out of reach of an EC-capped F2P player.
Bottom Line: The gear required to be competitive in PvP *without* relying on a "broken" mechanic is prohibitively expensive and represents a huge barrier to entry for casual players. So the next time you're about to bash someone for using A2B or FAW or DEM or whatever, think back to how long it took you to assemble your own OP rig that does PvP the "right" way and cut them some slack...
RCK
its pretty good on a semi-turned scimtar too - in a jousting type situation, I've found the best weapons are wide angled types
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Pssh, I could do it with just the paper clip.
Also, two thumbs up from me just because you are using single cannons.
I might give that one a go for fun, throw on some acc3 single cannons for fun >.>
Great! Now I'm starting ANOTHER trend... :eek:
But credit goes to Hek'lar for turning me onto the nice, 180 arc of the singles...makes jousting much more productive. The key is to use them to grind down their shields, then let the DHC and DBB do the heavy hitting. Timing is key. It's kind of like a reverse vape - you'll love it.
Never thought I could kill bugs with cannons, but now I'm eating them for breakfast...love this ship!
RCK
Dear RCK,
Congrats on trying out an interesting build that is not a cookie cutter like 95% of other Escorts out there. http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/?build=rckhironoa2breva_0
I do have a few questions on your build if you don't mind me asking them publicly.
1) I don't think Mini has taken his retirement just yet, that device is a sure source of tears with so many people presumably running with Proton Barrage and Proton Weapons in their builds. So why are you keeping the Subspace Field Modulator?
2) Only your DBB benefits from the Nukara Particle Converter and your DBB is only an Acc X 2, don't you agree your are using up a precious console slot to improve the accuracy of 1 weapon out of 7 to be a little rich?
3) What is the justification for equipping a Weapons battery in a device slot for this build?
4) Why are you carrying 2 copies of A2D other than maintaining an 100% uptime for A2D when 1 copy alone will only have a gap of 7 seconds between activation with doff?
I am concerned about the firing arcs of this build. The justification for using 2 X Cannons, along with 2 Turrets and 1 KCB to weaken your enemy shields - I am not convinced this set up is effective. Cannons and Turrets dissipate very quickly over distance. At range 5KM ~ 10KM, your Cannons and Turrets will do significantly less damages than Beam Arrays and with much lesser accuracy than your Acc X 3 Beams + Nukara Particle Converter. In order to justify the use of cannons, you must literaly maintain within a "mele" range of your target at < 5KM. That is hard to do if your target is a fast flying Escort because your Hirogen Escort is tankier but slower than most Escorts. Naturally, if your target is a noob who thinks having a Bug ship = I win button, then it really doesn't matter what you use. If you must maintain within 5KM, aka. mele range, you will be vulnerable to a number of close range abilities that are very dangerous, namely TBR III, Point Defense System and etc. On the other hand, if your target realizes the inconsistency of your firing arc and see through the strategy you are using, then your attack becomes fairly predictable and can be easily timed and anticipated. Know that when you hit BO, the BO icon will appear right below your ship with a timer and it will not fire off immediately especially if your DBB is already in use (aka. occupied). Unless the first shot you fire is a BO, the fact your ship has no cloak means that people can prepare for your BO whenever they see that icon goes up and that against some Science ships is an automatic self-destruct because your BO III will be returned to you amplified and likely one shot yourself. Before Proton Barrage went rampant, a lot of Klink vapers, especially Mini, one shot themselves with their own BO III more times than I care to count and theirs was a lot harder to predict because they come out of cloak, unlike your ship.
I suppose this build could be effective against some Escorts. As far as a general purpose Kerrat build however, I don't believe you are going to have much success against Sci Captains and Sci ships. For one thing, your 2 X Cannons and 2 Turrets + KCB will have a hard time stripping their tough shielding. There is a huge difference between Escorts' shield modifier and that of Sci ships. On the other hand, Klinks who know how to fly a Sci ship properly, they are rarer than Xindi doff. Have fun in Kerrat tormenting the Klink! I think you should just go back to your FAW, A2B + DEM build, don't let those whiners mislead you into thinking any of those is OP. In fact, the names you mentioned, I recognized them. Anyone who complains about A2B+FAW+DEM is OP needs to return to PvP bootcamp and retrain.
I mean the general tactic of any cloaker in that zone is to gang up on any single ship they can find.
It happens to me all the time, I'm usually bait (gal-x), and can hold my own until my allies get there. And when the mighty fedball shows up its all whining that it isn't fair and its cheep tactics and "you would have died if it were just you against the 3 or 4 of us".
Apparently reinforcements are OP unless they are yours.
On the other side of that you have people who go in and complain other players are killing them.
Its an open warzone people. You want handicaps and rules go to organized pvp, you want to stomp on newbs and captain kirks then you have to deal with whatever you come across, including the occasional butt kicking.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Thanks for the feedback, Iskandus, but I'm pretty happy with how the builds performs so far. As to your specific points:
1. No doubt, SFM will get me killed quicker in a Minimax-vape type situation. However, that represents maybe 1-2% of my encounters in Ker'rat. The majority of my battles take place against BOPs, Bugs, destroyers, Scimis and the occasional tank - all firing traditional weapons (Dis, Pla, AP or the occasional Tet/Pol). And quite often, they'll also equip FBP, which I've found SFM to be quite effective against (along with PH, but I'm no longer slotting that). So I keep it for those times when I need a hull-integrity boost, knowing full well I risk opening myself to a Proton attack.
2. Not if it's my main kill weapon. Everything about the build is geared towards setting up the BO3 shot. It's how I've killed the majority of the players I've faced, so putting some additional Acc behind it is worth it to me. A 50-60K *effective* (not raw) crit from that DBB is enough to finish all but the toughest opponents, especially if they're already wounded from the constant barrage of cannon and non-overloaded DBB fire.
Note: Even if/when I do upgrade to an Acc x3 beam - or switch energy types altogether - I'll keep the console. Acc x4 is OP.
3. The weapons battery is mostly about getting the ship ready to shoot more quickly after rushing into a situation at full-impulse. I drop to normal speed, fire-off one or two shots, then pop the battery before hitting my buffs and diving in. Better than sitting around waiting for energy levels to return from FI state - or firing while still impotent from FI.
Note: I also use from time to time in combat to mitigate drain and keep my weapons hitting harder. Frankly, what the heck else am I going to put in there? I don't have a RMC, and I'm not about to slot Jevonite, so...
4. The 2x A2D ensure that there is ZERO gap in coverage, plus they keep the ship moving and maneuverable. The resist effect may last a full 23 seconds, but the turn rate/speed boosts do not. It's all about flying fast and turning quickly with this ship, so whatever I can do to increase those attributes is a net positive. Adding A2B back into the mix might give me a bit of a shield/engine boost, but at a cost of lowered maneuverability (I know because I tried it). And since I'm not using beams (or at least not enough to cause a drain issue), overcapping weapons power beyond 135 - which I already get from Leech - is a waste of energy.
Bottom Line: The build works, and quite well. I have yet to lose an honest 1v1 with any player. Fonz got me with a doff'd ramming speed, but I was already winning that engagement handily so I don't count that as a legitimate loss.
As for the ship types I mentioned in item 1 above, I can easily kill the first 4 1v1 - in fact, I spent a good portion of last night repeatedly shredding a 4-man scimi DPS team that included my good friend Sayako. When I can take out 60-75% of a target's hull with a well timed and buffed pass, then wheel around and finish them in a matter of seconds, I'm in my happy place.
Besides, this game is all about experimenting and having fun. I set out the prove I could do PvP the "right" way - with no "broken" mechanics or supposed exploits - and I succeeded. If you're still skeptical, just ask some of the poor TRIBBLE in Ker'rat who I've been terrorizing with my nasty little ship.
RCK
That is like me saying... I can kill you just fine without ISO/Ion Beam/ Proton Barage comboed... up so I am going to run all 3 together. Suck it I'm PvP bona fide you just suck. lol
If you got a hard time for flying FAW boats before... it IS NOT BECAUSE people though you sucked. Its because they thought you where to good for it. I guess you don't feel the same way.
Its a game man play it however you like. In general though... when good players run cheese other good players give them a hard time about it. If say a sad panda premade was to hit the ques with multiple cheese console, and faw shimitards ect... they will get called cheesy... doesn't matter if they could do well with out it. There skill level isn't the point.
I've gotta say you seem to be loving using non-"exploitive" builds.
But that's not what was being asserted. Rather, I was accused of being *incapable* of fighting effectively in PvP *without* those "crutches." It was a personal challenge made directly to my by HissyFit, and I took it upon myself to rise to said challenge and prove, both to him and to the larger PvP community, that his claims were unfounded.
It's worth noting that, when I returned to Ker'rat with my "response" (i.e. the aforementioned non-A2B cannon build), HissyFit praised me for having the courage to show up without my "crutch." And later, after we'd battled to a standstill, he expressed his respect for me and my skills as a pilot in a traditional PvP build.
So it was a personal challenge to prove I could do it - and rather than ignore the comment, I chose to address it head on and see if I really could pull it off. And, frankly, I'm a better player for having made the journey. I actually *prefer* this style of play - it's a heck of a lot more exciting than flying in a circle trying to slowly grind the other guy into space dust. At least with my current build I get moments of excitement (and also of sheer terror) as I focus in for that one perfect kill shot.
RCK
As I mentioned above, I'm beginning to like the non-A2B build better. With 2x A2D I'm both fast and tanky. With A2B or a hybrid A2B/A2d build, I found I was sometimes fast, sometimes not. Sometimes tanky, sometimes not. Etc, etc.
It was this inconsistency that drove me nuts, which is why the highly predictable nature of my current build has me favoring the non-A2B solution.
Of course, the above only holds true for a cannon-focused build. If I were to equip beams again I'd have to go with A2B since there's really no other way to get decent overcap. By contrast, with cannons and 1 dbb, i get all the overcap I need from the Leech.
The only thing I really miss from A2B is the ability to slot PH in my ensign universal station. I now use the station for my 2nd TT, something I didn't have to worry as much about when it was always on GCD from A2B (though I'm finding that chained TTs, running continuously, is better for survivability than a single copy used as needed - one less thing to worry about during combat).
Bottom Line: They say that all the best escort jockeys run non-A2B builds. I'm beginning to see the wisdom in their choices.
RCK
I'm not sure all the hate an A2B build gets is entirely justified.
On some ships its the only way to really get any damage out of it.
I have also never seen any conclusive proof that the combo was in some wan an actual exploit, seeing as how the mentioned powers do exactly as their supposed to and no more.
Ill say now that I do use this sort of build on my dreadnought cruiser and currently only my dreadnought cruiser.
What exactly is the exploit? Is it the damage boost? Is it the shield penetration? The energy overcaping? The cd reduction? Or is it that the combination is some how unfair? And if so how is it unfair?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
It is not that its an exploit as much as the tech doffs are contrary to proper game design.
All you have to do for proof of that is look at all the other cool down doffs... and then you realize tech doffs replace them... ALL at once. lol (not to mention they cool down skills that don't even have cool down doffs... like DEM and EWP)
The issue is this.
When tech doffs where first released they where perfectly balanced. They offered very strong cool down reduction to ALL skills... the trade off was having to use the weak A2B skill. Part of what made it weak was that the global it was on was the Emergency power to global. Which was fine.
What this meant for builds was simple. You could run ONE copy of A2B + any ONE EPTx... and you would keep that one EPTx with in a couple seconds of global and you would get a 30% reduction on all your skills when you used a2b. However if you ran a second ETPx you would have to choose and ping pong them... never having both EPTx up at the same time. (unless you skipped an a2b cycle anyway)
What happened is Borticus made a MASSIVE mistake. He moved A2B off of the EPTx global and put it on the Aux/damp/sif global. Which based on there names makes sense sure... however the issue really is he left the Tech doffs alone... which where completely balanced in there initial form based on the other global.
When he moved a2b to the other global they should have at the same time CHANGED the tech doffs... something like 5% reduction each instead of 10%. That would have given people the exact same cool down reduction those doffs had before. (with 2 copies of a2b). However they would have been able to keep 2 copies of EPTx Skills at global... so it still would have been a massive buff but NOT game breaking as they are now.
People running tech doffs... went from one EPTx at global and One a2b -30% cool downs.... to 2 EPTx and -60% cool downs... with that one bad change.
This is a big part of why the game went from 30k or so top end DPS in PvE to 60k. Sure since many other creep items have came out and you can break 30k without a2b... still A2B+tech is likely the largest power creep issue in the game.
Trying to fix it by nerfing the tech doffs now would cause a riot. Moving the skill back would be unpopular as well... but its pretty much required if this game is ever going to move forward on balance. If some shps are sub par after a fix of the issue... then they should get buffs if they need it. (honestly I don't see it though cruiser commands where intended to offset the Cruisers suck QQ crowd... if needed though sure boost them... Or add traits for them... perhaps a Cruiser command Buff trait that does things like add +10% dmg to weapon effic Ect).
This isn't true, with the exception that turrets are garbage in this instance. Cannons become slightly less effective than beams at about 6k. Before that they are more effective at least as regards damage drop off over range. Dual Heavies beat beams to at least 7k, and only at 10k range would you notice a drop off in damage.
That's just what they do.
As far as ACC, yes there will be on average a 6% difference in hit rate per 10% difference in ACC value between the weapons when firing on any target outside of ACC overflow. In short if there is a chance for the weapons to miss, one weapon would miss 6 more times out of a hundred shots fired on average.
Don't get into the "well what if you're attacked by ducks while you're using this build?" type of nonsense. Ducks are out there. Build your ship to combat ducks and well there you go, gators got yah. Here, take this paperclip.
Still while the individual power may have been enhanced then its also just as good with any combination of powers. It also has a rather high cost to use, in that you need half of your doff slots and 2 lt engineering powers to pull it off not to mention the cost of the actual doff.
But most of the hate isn't usually directed at this single power its directed at the combo which is odd.
Theoretically as long as i have at least 2 lt eng slots I could use this power to make any build better.
And the op himself saw first hand that the combo isn't the end all be all of damage so its not like its even that necessary.
I'm not even sure the hate is because its broken, a lot of it seems to be either some one doesn't want to figure out how to get around it, or some one doesn't like that a cruiser can actually kill them in a timely fashion.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Experimental Proton Weapon - a very common weapon which can be used with FAW, BO and CRF. If you use SFM, that means your shields are either gone or almost. At that point, Proton FAW will cause a ton of damage to you, along with other BFAW. You think SFM help you tank FBP but it only gives you a short duration +34 DMG resist rating, which along with your doff A2D (+40) and Fleet Neutronium & RCS boost to DMG resist, the diminished return on the overall DMG resist % translates into roughly an additional DMG resist % less than 5%. Besides, FBP can be cycled every 30 seconds whereas SFM has a CD of 180 seconds. The duration mismatch and the small effective DMG resist % boost suggest it is a poor counter to FBP. It is more likely that most of the FBP you encountered were meant as deterrent (aka. Low level FBP), nothing more.
It is directed at the combo for the reason I stated.... and this.
Beams don't overcap properly. Beams have no overcapping limit. So hitting a2b + faw... pushes weapon power well into the 150+ range and the faw hurts much more then it should. Throw in the issue I stated where people are now running EPTW + A2B + Faw... and you start talking about 200 weapon power levels. Which means 8 beams are never really dipping under 125. So yes the faw hurts even more. This is also why some people have very noticable dem numbers and others do not. DEM dmg is dependent on weapon power so if you over cap hard durring a faw cycle all the dem hits hit at Max dmg. Where as with out the a2b / ETPW super overcap around 50% of the dem strikes are happening at 70 or so weapon power and really not doing much.
So indeed you hear most people complaining about the combo of the 2.
The get around it is easy... we all run vape and fbping science ships. Its just boring as all heck... and to be completely honest against 5 people that really know what hey are doing with a2b/faw builds there really is no proper counter.
I see. So its mostly a problem with the forever broken beam arrays.
IE if beam arrays worked properly it wouldn't really be an issue.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus