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J'mpok
planetearth2371
Member Posts: 32 Arc User
could j'mpok be an undine, if possable that the death of martok was not seen by anyone but j'mpok, I find the death of martok to be suspicious, one because if they are to fight for the leadership of the empire, it has to be infront of other klingons. in the last two years i think he is an undine who pushed the empire to invade the gorn home world.
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Keep in mind that Melani D'ian was also heavily involved in the politics, and it's rumored she helped kill Martok dishonorably when J'mpok and Martok entered the chambers and closed all the doors. She could have easily (and unfairly) beamed in and helped kill the Chancellor.
I think J'mpok is on his way out the door -- or at least close to creating a schism to divide the J'mpok loyalists (the NPCs) with the House of Martok (played by the players).
I thought WoW's forums had angry elitist snobs, but I never could have imagined the level STO forums has.
Vulcans and letheans would know no different if their master is an 8472 unlss they were told to scan their masters mind. has such an order ever been given?
there is also the idea that 8472 can dominate the minds of other telepaths and manipulate them to do what the 8472 wants, if tuvok is an indicator the letheans may not have any idea.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Why J'mpok was needed? To provide all the recourses towards the Republic that the Empire could spare.
On a serious note, J'mpok started the war against the Federation to combat Undine infiltrators. Check the Path to 2409 in the wiki, you'll see why he did this. An Undine would also start this war, but would avoid as much Undine references as possible.
and isn't this Ten Forward material
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As for J'mpok, he is either an Undines, a fool, or an Orion tool.
This might have been true. However, if the Undine have any intelligence at all and did their homework concerning the Alpha Quadrant, they should know that wars can end due to infiltration. We saw this durinng the Dominion Cold War, where Changeling infiltration was enough to change the Klingon-Federation war into a resigned Khitomer Accord.
So they really should draw attention off themselves if they want to succeed in whater they are doing.
I go for option number two.
:P
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Everybody knew about it, yes, but the federation did not take the threat seriously at all.
Thats the reason why Worf sided with the Empire, too. Because the Federation refused to act.
The leaders - J'mpok, Aennik Okeg and D'tan are just placeholders. For us to have a figure that "commands" a faction. Neither of them "needs to" or "should" be changed, it's irrelevant.
They don't play any role in the story we play that revolves around our characters, sometimes working togehter with iconic Trek characters that Cryptic could get to do VO work for STO.
Why would it be? It's not off-topic.
J'mpok started out as a bit of a hard-liner against the Romulans and the Federation, but overall I believe he's acted with honour. I know everybody loves Martok (I love Martok), but the fact that J'mpok killed him doesn't make him eeeeeevil. It's a shame nobody witnessed their combat, though.
I'm not saying J'mpok's perfect - his alliance with the Orions seems particularly questionable - but I think he's much more interesting if he's not an Undine, but instead an honourable, but sometimes foolish, Klingon.
Oh?
His best allied were the House of Torg, who are now banned. Honorless murderer, who killed a threat to J'mpok, Mven, Martok's grandson.
He made peace with the Orions, honorless slavers and criminals. He sent several thousands Orions women as "slaves" to great houses, and we know what Orions females do once they are "slaves" somewhere.
While "crazy eyes" Goron had proof his government was infiltrated by changelling, and saw Starfleet and him were sharing a common foe, while the Dominion was (successfully) trying to undermine their friendship, he renewed the alliance, and fought together. What J'mpok did when Starfleet joined the fight against the Undine and the Iconians, who are the biggest reasons why the alliance was broken ? He kept fighting Starfleet.
Thx for the link, I quote : You can also search for the T'Vix incident.
And guess what? In a month from now, the Federation will be allied with those same thieves, honorless slavers and criminals!
This actually speaks a lot about the low quality of writing and retconning at Cryptic, than it says anything about J'mpok.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
There are 2 strategic mistakes:
1. Killing Martok. While it makes absolutely sense in-verse, I'd guess that the majority of players liking the Klingon side liked/loved Martok. So setting the guy who killed one of our most beloved characters in front of our noses as "our new leader" was just dump. That's not how you get Klingon-trek fans involved into your story.
2. He's boring as a characters. Gowron, for example, couldn't be further away from a competent leader, but the viewers liked him as a character. You know, crazy eyes and "Woooooooooooorf!!!!" He was unique.
J'mpok is boring and generic in his appearance. Nothing special about him.
So ultimately, the for the average player, his only characteristic is "killed Martok".
Both that facts make him very disliked by a lot of players.
With his background in any other regards, he's actually a good character. He could work if he wasn't half assed cryptic style.
Well I guess in a weird way it makes sense. A Halfassed leader for a halfassed faction *shrugs*
I thought WoW's forums had angry elitist snobs, but I never could have imagined the level STO forums has.
The obvious Undine is B'vat, what with his scenery-chewing speech where he declares, "There are no innocents! Only the strong, and the weak!" Sound familiar? Then there's the time travel bit where you meet young B'vat, who seems a decent fellow, and wonders what could have happened to make his older self so bitter and spiteful. He was also the Arbiter of Succession in that closed-doors fight between Martok and J'mpok. Basically, he was perfectly placed to be the power behind the scenes, the kind of guy the Undine would attempt to replace.
Very valid, and thought provoking, wondering now when we'll see B'vat exposed ala Gowron seeing Martok as a shapeshifter. Will J'mpok become a better character at that point? I still don't really think he's that great, even with the reasons listed in this thread. He just seems uninspiring to me, and I do think he looks very generic. Why haven't we seen him captaining any flagships in the storyline at all? Did his voice actor fall out of line with Cryptic? If that's the case, then just kill him off, and bring someone new in so my KDF toons can feel the Blood fo the Warrior thumping in their veins, and sing songs of glorious battles that they have been a part of.
That or just join the Federation, because I feel like half the game is me helping the Feds anyways, even though we're supposedly at war. And I still really hate how the KDF just allied with the Romulans. Even with the whole Empress Sela/D'tan hate thing going on, I think the deceit of the romulans in the past would be most hard to forgive and forget for many Klingons, especially Ja'Rod since he seems the most honorable Duras to be seen in the Star Trek universe, and the dealings with the Romulans has cost his family everything.
I thought WoW's forums had angry elitist snobs, but I never could have imagined the level STO forums has.
Orions allied, Lethean mercenary, Gorn vassals/allies (the line is thin, they have a Gorn as a permanent guest in the council, and a Gorn as ambassador), Lethean friends, and probably the worst of all since Khitomer : Romulan allies.
For a Chancellor that want to have the Empire as it was in the past, he is very friendly. Unless you are the Federation, that is.
I also think in the end it's poorly written character added to gameplay need (for example having a lot of aliens species, while in the shows the Klingon Empire was made of, well, Klingons).
But in the end, lorewise, it's a bad Chancellor.
um... B'Vat's hard to "expose" as an undine agent is kinda hard considering we killed him, and then blew up the cruiser his body was on.... makes a post mortem hard to do when the body is ashes floating in space. unless he kept physical records somewhere of his "Undine exploits" I doubt you can, and I doubt such a guy was so stupid.
Now, that being said, I agree with others that he is a really bland, uninteresting character, which is a shame, because the overarching story that he supposedly is a big part of is certainly interesting enough. The writers just aren't utilizing it, or him, very well.
Sorry I forgot about all that, guess it's time to actually play through the storyline again and not just "F" through it as fast as I can on a new alt.
I thought WoW's forums had angry elitist snobs, but I never could have imagined the level STO forums has.
not that im saying he couldnt have been.... just saying the storyline makes it hard to proove unless theres some "off screen evidence" found.
B'Vat is obviously not an undine because
A. Undine are smart infiltrators. Throwing undine catchphrases arround is something an undine infiltrator wouldn't do.
B. he was far to involved in his personal scheme that didn't really further the undines goal. He was just an idiot.
The voice actor did not fall out of line with Cryptic, in fact they only recently added voiceovers for J'mpok.
Personally I think J'mpok and K'Gan have the best voiceovers in STO, not considering iconic characters that had special guest star Trek actors that do VO work for them.
As to J'mpok looking generic and not seing him captaining flagships - it's because he's suposed to be a 'placeholder' leader. Just like the other leaders. Heck, at least we can meet and talk with J'mpok, anyone seen Aennik Okeg lately? Or ever?
These leaders are just for us players to have an representation of the "main guy" in the faction, for story and flavor purposes. They really have no role beyond that and they're not suposed to have. Even if they change the leaders, the new leaders would be as much static and uninspiring - just like any 'placeholder' character is suposed to be.
1) House of Duras isn't as dishonorable as it once was. Ja'rod, as much as he needs to be bailed out alot, has been the take the blame guy for the House of Torg and the House of B'Vat. No seriously. Go re-read the Path to 2409, he's actually not a bad guy. He's just been royally screwed over by his "allies." Ja'rod actually turned down a seat on the high council citing "I don't deserve to be one of you yet. I will return to Qo'noS a hero or not at all." And then took off to go do his missions. Plus he was the one who found out the Undine. Just saying.
2) Torg was also discommendated BY J'mpok. And condemned by him. Klingons take honor very seriously and Torg called his alliance with the Tal Shiar the same as allying with the Republic. Which J'mpok didn't take very well.
3) The whole Orion plotline is a point of suspicion but until we see more evidence, its unclear how much control Melani D'ian has.
4) Most people miss the backstory build up to the Gorn War that began *after* J'mpok took power. Because J'mpok and 90% of the high council were basically calling Martok a coward for not fighting the Gorn for 4 years. That's alot of patience for Klingons. He waited 4 years before he decided "TRIBBLE this! Enough is enough" and slayed Martok. And even then, he was very even handed in his dealing with the Gorn threat - he tracked down the Undine in their midst, and he even faced King Slathis in personal combat. And then he chose NOT to slay the Gorn King, but instead offered him a non-voting seat on the high council, something Martok would never do ("We are klingons, we don't work with races, we conquer them!").
All in all, besides the Orion thing and we've got only a handful of evidence, J'mpok is actually a reasonable authority figure, if unpopular with players. He's taken the Empire down a more sustainable path with multi-species cooperation (with the Klingons still at the top naturally), expanded the Empire's borders after nearly a century of lack of growth (and with some planets like Krios, indeed, loss) and has encouraged more diplomacy with outside races.
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
I think it would be more interesting on the whole if he is bright, he is trying to burn the Empire down, and he's not an Undine or a Changeling or a Manchurian Candidate type who's been brainwashed.
The only thing comparable would be the Tal Shiar so I like the idea that he was approached by the Iconians and decided to position himself as Chancellor and then plots the destruction of Qo'noS, which only works if the Klingon military is worn down and distracted, far from home. And his endgame is to send the star of the Qo'noS system into a supernova like the Tal Shiar did with Hobus.
It would be a big arc for the game if one of the faction's leaders was out to destroy their own homeworld again and we had a chance at preventing a repeat of the destruction of Romulus. It would also further the Iconian plot and establish their MO if we see that their approach is to get a leader to wipe out their own race.
Yes, because a carbon-copy of the Romulan storyline is just what we were missing in STO. :rolleyes:
When Starfleet (infiltrated by Undine, such as Sokketh and T'vix and the Deltan lady and probably T'nae and maybe Quinn as well) got all upset over Ja'rod and the Klingons' crusade against the Undine, the Klingons (rightly, from their cultural standpoint) saw that as a breach of the Khitomer Accords, and responded in a fully appropriate fashion.
Jm'pok isn't a rabid Federation-hating monster. He's just a by-the-books Klingon leader.
Agreed. He's not bad, just weakly written at times and sort of generic.
I still want Ja'rod as Chancellor, though. There's a real Klingon man for you.
Yeah, you might end up getting a masterpiece of television entertainment like Enterprise, that was incredibly successful and was hailed for years after as the most perfect story that ever existed in human history, and caused TV guide to cry rainbows when it was cancelled by the evil television network that ate babies for dinner.
While I can't argue against the financial "success" of Enterprise, as a show it did round out the Trek universe, and bring up some pretty important issues that cropped up after the September 11 attack. The previous shows couldn't do that; Enterprise could. And it did that well, if nothing else.
As for CBS? Frak CBS. They don't even respond to my emails.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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