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Breaking the Klingon stereotypes
karmog
Member Posts: 115 Arc User
I've been reading STO and other Trek forums for a while. Some of the things said about the Klingons are simply absurd. By some players' own admission, it affects their enjoyment of STO and a faction choice. Others simply enjoy putting Klingons down.
I'll start with some of the worst statements I've read:
"Klingons are nothing but savages (or barbarians) who stole most of their technology from the Hur'q."
The Hur'q were an advanced warp-capable alien race. Yet, the Klingons beat them. Does this compute yet?
Klingons built a ship that can fire through cloak in a much less time than the main frequently recurring Trek factions in the Alpha and Beta quadrants. They also invented a time travel device, seen in a Voyager episode called "Endgame".
"Klingons are just aggressive but not strong or powerful."
TNG episode "Yesterday's Enterprise" showed a timeline of a full-scale Federation-Klingon War, which included Starfleet building dedicated warships and referring to the Enterprise as a 'battleship'. Everyone wore phasers too. UFP was completely surrounded and six months away from surrendering. This is canon.
"Klingons are bad guys!"
What about Starfleet and UFP? DS9 episode "In the Pale Moonlight" showed us their true colors, and they are beyond pale. This was akin to the Reichstag fire started by Hitler. It wasn't just Sisko either. Bashir and Dax were in on it too. All of them were Starfleet officers. How much other tricking does Starfleet do? Then there is Section 31.
Starfleet claims to be "not a military organization", yet Star Trek VI showed us that Starfleet has a JAG Corps. Meanwhile, Starfleet expands its military outposts and border patrols closer to other factions.
There is also this big propaganda that Klingons join Starfleet but Humans don't join the Klingon Empire because "it's crazy!", and because Star Trek treats Starfleet as "civilized" and Klingons as "uncivilized". An STO developer's blog titled "The Anatomy of a Worf" confirms it:
"But the combination of these elements must absolutely still look civilized to represent who Worf is. Color is an important factor too, and here, white seemed to work quite well for the impression we wanted for Worf as a diplomat."
If Worf is "civilized", what are the other Klingons in STO? Notice that Worf has no spikes, claws, hooks, blades or horns on his outfit. Clearly, it's not just the players who form these stereotypes.
I'll start with some of the worst statements I've read:
"Klingons are nothing but savages (or barbarians) who stole most of their technology from the Hur'q."
The Hur'q were an advanced warp-capable alien race. Yet, the Klingons beat them. Does this compute yet?
Klingons built a ship that can fire through cloak in a much less time than the main frequently recurring Trek factions in the Alpha and Beta quadrants. They also invented a time travel device, seen in a Voyager episode called "Endgame".
"Klingons are just aggressive but not strong or powerful."
TNG episode "Yesterday's Enterprise" showed a timeline of a full-scale Federation-Klingon War, which included Starfleet building dedicated warships and referring to the Enterprise as a 'battleship'. Everyone wore phasers too. UFP was completely surrounded and six months away from surrendering. This is canon.
"Klingons are bad guys!"
What about Starfleet and UFP? DS9 episode "In the Pale Moonlight" showed us their true colors, and they are beyond pale. This was akin to the Reichstag fire started by Hitler. It wasn't just Sisko either. Bashir and Dax were in on it too. All of them were Starfleet officers. How much other tricking does Starfleet do? Then there is Section 31.
Starfleet claims to be "not a military organization", yet Star Trek VI showed us that Starfleet has a JAG Corps. Meanwhile, Starfleet expands its military outposts and border patrols closer to other factions.
There is also this big propaganda that Klingons join Starfleet but Humans don't join the Klingon Empire because "it's crazy!", and because Star Trek treats Starfleet as "civilized" and Klingons as "uncivilized". An STO developer's blog titled "The Anatomy of a Worf" confirms it:
"But the combination of these elements must absolutely still look civilized to represent who Worf is. Color is an important factor too, and here, white seemed to work quite well for the impression we wanted for Worf as a diplomat."
If Worf is "civilized", what are the other Klingons in STO? Notice that Worf has no spikes, claws, hooks, blades or horns on his outfit. Clearly, it's not just the players who form these stereotypes.
Post edited by karmog on
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Comments
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truthiness
Problem is that truthiness disregards facts no matter what.
In doubt people will make a claim that can't be backed up by facts, like the Klingons stole Warp from the Hur'q thing that's not from canon, and then say "Prove me wrong s*cker!"
Of course it can't be disproven because nobody writes an entry that explicitly states what did NOT happen.
So...have fun. Been that there done that.
It's all in the Archived Post section of the forums now.
*EDIT: given the number of posts you have it's probably not too late to say: welcome to the KDF and welcome to the forums
Such nonesense as you mentioned is usually suprred by people that have a completely subjective view of things or choose to view Star Trek from one and only one perspective and not for what it is.
As a fan of Star Trek who observes things in a rather objective manner I can't help but agree with what you and others have mentioned here. In the very least, the Klingon Empire is technologically equal to the Federation.
Anyone that can keep an objective perspective will tell you that while Klingons may be species that thrive on conflict, what a Human would see as brutality and often display agressive behaviors - they're highly developed and intelligent species that control vast amounts of space and have made technological advancements that would put other major factions to shame.
Contrary to what some might want to display them as, the Klignons are a very complex species.
In reality, in the long run, a diverse Federation that puts a premium on freedom of thought and action, will always beat a culturally homogenous Empire. Always. It's virtually the entire story of civilization and progress.
Ironically, the situation is reversed on the actual battlefield. History has shown that ranks of disciplined soldiers acting homogenously always beat hordes of mighty warriors acting individually, no matter how warrior-ey and mighty the warriors may be as individuals. Always. Co-ordination and discipline are everything in large-scale battle, but they are totally against the warrior ethos.
Warriors are only good as raiders, scouts and skirmishers - there they have an advantage, but only there.
The reasons for this interesting reversal as follows:- a battle has a clear and simple goal. For a clear and simple goal, homogenous action is most effective.
But a civilization, the development of a culture, has no "goal" as such, and nor do scientific or technological advancement, therefore the bedrock requirement for culture, technological and scientific advancment is diversity and the flowering of individuality. For knowledge to advance, there needs to be a large variety of "trial balloons", many of which will inevitably fail (not just re. culture but also re economics).
If a culture thinks it knows everything from the start, or works only by precedent and tradition, it won't explore all that stuff we don't know we don't know, it won't stumble on new things, and therefore it won't develop complex economies and high technology.
I guess that klingon warriors code is random thing? Or it came with idea of becoming strong people that want to conquer all that oppose them? Klingon civilization does have a goal - to fight and conquer - and majority of their efforts are focused into that. Sure, though time they refined their culture, but premise always stays.
You want to say scientists develop stuff at random too? Sure, they can stumble on something during their research, but that usually involves them already researching something else - already existing goal, that had to be financed by someone - if not by pay, at least by resources necessary to make research possible. Technological and scientific research is all but random - it's well oiled machine, with occasional "surprise discoveries" usually being a part of some other research.
I dig the idea that there's no some single research goal all scientists try to gravitate to (though there's stuff like Unified Field Theory or Panacea), but there's obvious set of long and short term of research goals at every research institute. I sincerely doubt that scientists get grants just to "research stuff".
I don't see why trial and error method would be barred from klingon mindset.
Such a culture would never move from their home planet, too. Considering KDF is star-spanning empire that keeps their tech level in line with Feds and romulans, I guess they don't fall into such category.
While klingons might be traditionalists, their culture obviously changed over time. I always saw them as pragmatic culture - if tradition works, it stays, if it doesn't cut in anymore, time to change it. Martok is obvious example - son of commoner who became nobility (he founded his own Great House) and even Chancellor. His example pretty much buried any use of (in his time already outdated) law that only nobles could be officers.
Therefore, klingon culture does change, otherwise they would never be able to survive this long.
Theres a well written wiki page on where the word barbarian originates..
and how many possible meanings it has.
And as far as the Klingons are concerned.. the Federation are a bunch of ignorant barbarians with no clue as to the reality of the universe.. For Klingons the disparaging term "Lotas Eaters" would also apply to their view of the Federation.
The Klingon are a quadrant spanning civilization with a strong military bent. They're stable, not nearly are "repressive" as some seem to to portray..
The Gorn may have been forcefully amalgamated into the empire, but apparently have a great deal of say in imperial policy..seeing one of the primary ambassador to the Federation from the Empire is a Gorn.
They are cleaver, smart, canny, technologically adept. Highly civilized, and make a point to hold on to values and ideals that have worked for their empire and civilization for several centuries as a star spanning empire. They existed longer then the federation has. The evidence says they react strongly to any threat to their security. They will "saber rattle", but thats part and parcel of the Klingon psyche. "If a thing is valuable to you, will you fight for it?" is at the core of any challenge.
They are no simple culture.. and they are far from being a unitary, homogeneous civilization.
Choosing to live "simply" is a known trait of many civilization in our own history built around any kind of warrior ethos. And apparently a successful one or it wouldn't be as common as it is.
those who would call the Klingon "Barbarians" should be treated like the ignorant savages beating at the gates of civilization that they are.
This. Took the words right outta my mouth
Every time I watch the Vikings tv series, I keep thinking if the characters were all Klingons, this show would still make perfect sense.
While MOST Klingons claim to adhere to honor and a warrior tradition, some such as the Duras family merely pay lip service while secretly holding those who follow "The Way of the Warrior" in contempt.
For my own opinion, the Klingons area glorified and idealized version of Japanese Samurai culture as precieved by Americans. Granted, this is not exact either. There are also elements of Spartan and Jewish culture in the mix.
IMHO starting with TNG and ending with "Enterprise" we had a kind of "bellcurve" regarding Klingon behaviour. In Season 1 and parts of Season 2 of TNG the authors didn't really know what to do with Klingons in General and Worf in particular. So we got stuff like the "Wereworf" in "Where Silence has Lease" where he was more like an animal.;)
That got better over time including DS9. Klingons on "Voyager" were a bit of a step back for me. And with "Enterprise" the Klingons de-evolved into semi-animalistic space vikings which is why I personally didn't very much care for them.
One thing to remember is that pretty much all the Klingons we meet are members of the military and/or nobility. I don't think we ever see "The average K'Jo" in the shows even though they're probably the majority of the population.
So who knows that they think really?:)
This is mostly true for any species in Star Trek. The representatives we get to see from certain species (talking about major players in the quadrant here, not 1 episode spinoffs) are usually members of some sort of government or the space/military of said species.
Probably the best insight one could get into the "aversage K'Joes" in the Empire is from the number of Klingon based books, some of them tackle those topics and are a genuinely good read for a Star Trek fan.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Oh, I've read some of those and I liked the "Klingon gramma" from "A Burning House" (candied racht anyone?) but I was referring to canon material. There the races are usually missing such things. It's one of reasons why, taking only what is seen on screen most species would not work because fundamental aspects are missing that they need to be sustainable.
Worf did revert to stupid every once in awhile though like in the best of both worlds when Riker asks him about any advantage they may have over the borg and the best he can do is "the borg lack honor and courage" speech.
You could argue that Alexander was never a stereotypical Klingon, and you'd be right.
But this junior bridge officer was expected to participate in damage control and repaired a plasma leak.
In modern sea-going navies, everybody is trained in basic first aid and basic damage control.
You'd better believe a space-faring warrior culture is going to be pretty serious about damage control, and in the age of Trek I imagine repairing a plasma leak requires more knowledge than simple plumbing.
In fact, you'd expect a Klingon crewman to have at least as much training as a Starfleet crewman does, and you'd expect a higher degree of training than a modern day naval crewman would get. Probably something closer to what an astronaut would need to have.
No, they're not barbarians or even bushido warriors. The ones we see most often in Trek are starship crew, and they'd better know what they're doing.
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With dashboard cameras and lots of vodka?
UMMM...
http://dudelol.com/DO-NOT-HOTLINK-IMAGES/Soviet-Engineering-with-versatility-in-mind.jpg
For me, "Vikings" reminds me of Terran (Imperial) culture almost more than that of the Klingons.
Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png
Disagree the Terrans feel more like Imperial Japan.
Viking/Klingon similarities.
House/Clan society - √
Challenge and kill your superior to advance - √
Female shieldmaidens/warriors - √
To die in battle is to die with honor - √
Take no prisoners - √
Raid and pillage your enemy - √
Battle cries and songs of victory - √
Legends of ancient warriors and epics - √
Warrior gods - √
Ritualistic funeral ceremonies - √
Afterlife with a world you hope to go to - √
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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feudal Japan not imperial japan.
Challenging a leader for their position is not entirely correct either the higher rank has to have show incompetence or cowardice and possibly some other factors I just cant remember. before a challenge is lawful.
and your wrong on the warrior gods. Klingons have no gods. According to legend Klingons killed their gods.
Kortar who drives the barge of the dead was the 1st Klingon who killed the GODs. and takes the dishonored to Gre'thor
and the ritualistic funeral ceremonies is also wrong. after the warrior has fallen and the spirt has left the body, others would Howl to let the after life know a warrior was coming. what remains is a worthless shell.
but they do indeed have some things in common with Vikings and that ok I always seen the Klingons as a nice Blend of the Viking, feudal japan, and hard core conservative republicans. LOL I am one of those three guess which hehehe.
:eek::eek:They dont look like hot blond people to me :P
"The Iconians!................." "Let them come and we will destroy them".
The interesting thing is, military service members of a particular nation are who most people meet, whether Americans stationed overseas or exchange program personnel training in the US. Yes, that is an American-centric view, but that doesn't mean it is an incorrect observation.
In The pale moon, Is about a man a Captain facing a no win scenario, He has to commit a lesser evil to stop a greater evil, the conquest of the Alpha and beta quadrants by the Dominion. And in this game "Temporal Ambassador" pretty much shows you what happens when the Domnion wins "Qo'nos Blast Zone" just let that sink in for a second.
If you bend over backwards to paint the federation as badguys with the by taking desperate situations and using the with zero context is just gonna get your efforts turned on you.
Klingons have been painted as "hyper aggressive space viking idiots" because they're not the Federation. And everything that is not Fed is automatically assumed to be the enemy and thus as stupid as the Germans in "Hogan's Heroes"...and blamed for it as well.
Because unless one is willing to accept the Federation as an even more perfect utopia with totally infallible people than Roddenberry's Season 1 TNG tried to show it as, is totally evul.
It's funny how people keep beating us over the head that the important message of Trek is that people have a choice...unless people like Sisko and Janeway (in the pilot fo example) make a bad choice. Then they bend over backwards insisting they had no choice and this was the only thing they could do and it should not be questioned.
And everyone who does not agree with this is an idiot.
Yep, sounds Terran to me. :P
Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png