Also, I have been keenly observing all the whiners, lying in wait, ready to pounce at the first opportunity they get to take away from others. And now, with a major rep nerf incoming, they smell blood. Typical. You give them a finger, and they try to take the whole hand. Whereas it's really THE finger they should be getting.
That's quite the paradox, how could you nerf nerf when the nerf is nerfed. But how would the nerf be nerfed when the nerf is nerfed? This allows the nerf not to be nerfed since the nerf is nerfed? But if the nerf isn't nerfed, it could still nerf nerfs. But as soon as the nerf is nerfed, the nerf power is lost. So paradoxally it the nerf nerf lost its nerf, while it's still nerfed, which cannot be because the nerf was unable to nerf.
This comment bugs me a bit. It reminds me of all the posts feds used to submit about how klinks had cloaking and they didnt.
IT should bother you. It should also bother you that the real heart of the problem is that feds didn't have any uniqueness to them at all, while the KDF got all the special toys AND the overpowered consoles.
IT should bother you. It should also bother you that the real heart of the problem is that feds didn't have any uniqueness to them at all, while the KDF got all the special toys AND the overpowered consoles.
O please. If that were the case, why does the KDF have such low player numbers on their side? Fed side has, or had, a majority of content behind them, while the KDF had to make do with what scraps they had until Cryptic got their act together and gave them a 1-50 lvling experience. They have far fewer ships than feds, and whenever they received ANYTHING, feds were right there banging on the door and crying to Cryptic to give them the same thing.
This thread just goes to show that it's happening again, except this time its the Romulans on the chopping block.
Formerly known as Echo@Rivyn13
Member since early 2011
O please. If that were the case, why does the KDF have such low player numbers on their side? Fed side has, or had, a majority of content behind them, while the KDF had to make do with what scraps they had until Cryptic got their act together and gave them a 1-50 lvling experience. They have far fewer ships than feds, and whenever they received ANYTHING, feds were right there banging on the door and crying to Cryptic to give them the same thing.
This thread just goes to show that it's happening again, except this time its the Romulans on the chopping block.
That's quite the paradox, how could you nerf nerf when the nerf is nerfed. But how would the nerf be nerfed when the nerf is nerfed? This allows the nerf not to be nerfed since the nerf is nerfed? But if the nerf isn't nerfed, it could still nerf nerfs. But as soon as the nerf is nerfed, the nerf power is lost. So paradoxally it the nerf nerf lost its nerf, while it's still nerfed, which cannot be because the nerf was unable to nerf.
You must be joking. I use it and it provides 2,400 heals per second. That console needs a serious nerf badly. If anyone says otherwise then you got a problem. And no nobody needs compensation for buying the ship. It was way OP and still is way OP.
O please. If that were the case, why does the KDF have such low player numbers on their side?
Because no one cares about the KDF? They were always the Federation Foil in the TOS, and kinda interesting space samurais in TNG, and right back to honorable barbarians in DS9.
They just don't have a fanbase to speak of, so they will never have the numbers to match the feds. Cryptic has tried to favor them with better consoles and then better doffing, trying to get people to play them more but to no one's surprise, most people STILL just don't care about them. I get there are some hardcore KDF fans, but for some reason accepting this truth has always been an issue. "Oh, if ONLY the KDF had more content, or more attention instead of those vile feds we'd have more players!" Is something that's been bandied around for years, and its as hollow now as it was then.
You must be joking. I use it and it provides 2,400 heals per second. That console needs a serious nerf badly. If anyone says otherwise then you got a problem. And no nobody needs compensation for buying the ship. It was way OP and still is way OP.
I have the valdore console too and don't get nearly your 2,400 heals per second rate :eek:
After they nerfed that console the first time the heal doesn't come when you need it. It can take 15 sec before I get even 1 proc. It's just like the 2.5% proc rate of weapons, it can come at widely varying times and not always when you need it.
If you have 2,400 heals per second then they must have missed nerfing your console the first time and need to nerf yours hard. :rolleyes:
I have the valdore console too and don't get nearly your 2,400 heals per second rate :eek:
After they nerfed that console the first time the heal doesn't come when you need it. It can take 15 sec before I get even 1 proc. It's just like the 2.5% proc rate of weapons, it can come at widely varying times and not always when you need it.
If you have 2,400 heals per second then they must have missed nerfing your console the first time and need to nerf yours hard. :rolleyes:
QFT. Yet another "Cry NERF! And let slip the dogs of QQ!". Too many cries for NERF and not enough talent to just make what they have work.
It was nerfed. The fact it is a zen console and was still nerfed is nothing short of a miracle. The devs won't nerf it again just because of people whining. If it's nerfed again, no one will buy it. Period. Therefore, Cryptic won't touch it again.
I have the stupid console. Is it nice? Sure. Is it a game changer like it used to be? I don't think so. It used to be you could throw it on and outheal anything out there. Even more than say a Tal Shiar Adapted Battlecruiser with the 2 part Borg set and its 2 part regeneration.
Want the mogai console nerfed eh? Sure, do that. But they may as well make the 2 piece worth using, maybe buffing the 2 piece drain resist bonus? It'd sure help us fleet mogai pilots out :P
When people will start to realize that is the combo aux2bat + FAW/CRF that makes everything so OP in this game? Without that the Valdore console is subpar, losing its 'shiny' status to other universal consoles.
#1 - Definitely a bug if it procs on proc based damage and worse with pets. Big bug. Throw out gravity wells, tyken's rifts, and all other pulse based damage to get more procs, very wrong.
#2 - The programmers have a heck of a mess with what they classify damage. I wouldn't be surprised if they classified tachyon beam as damage and hence why it seems to act as it instead of a drain, which is wrong.
Oh I highly agree that it is bugged, even the solanae hull leech has been acting the exact same way.
Eliminate the bug, and it is perfectly fine at a 2.5%.
When people will start to realize that is the combo aux2bat + FAW/CRF that makes everything so OP in this game? Without that the Valdore console is subpar, losing its 'shiny' status to other universal consoles.
That's quite the paradox, how could you nerf nerf when the nerf is nerfed. But how would the nerf be nerfed when the nerf is nerfed? This allows the nerf not to be nerfed since the nerf is nerfed? But if the nerf isn't nerfed, it could still nerf nerfs. But as soon as the nerf is nerfed, the nerf power is lost. So paradoxally it the nerf nerf lost its nerf, while it's still nerfed, which cannot be because the nerf was unable to nerf.
I will point out that these arguments sound almost the same as the ones about plasmonic leech.
If the devs feel the need to adjust the console they will. that have done it before.
The healing could use looked at as it has an outrageous benefit for cannon ships over beams. It would probably be better if there was a cap for min max healing. That way everyone gets the same amount of healing out of it an no one goes "WAHHH HE HEALS TOO MUCH!" or "WAHHHH I DON"T HEAL ENOUGH COMPARED TO THAT GUY!"
On my mogai I do see procs of over 2400, This is a bit much even if it usually happens when I'm at full shields, Perhaps there should also be a cap on when it can activate, only healing when you are damaged by x%
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
I'm all for normalizing the repairs of the Valdore Console (and I'm an avid Mogai user). But if you're doing that, you could buff that weapons drain resist for the 2 piece bonus as compensation :cool:
Don't change the effectiveness of it at all, but change it instead to come from the tier 5 retrofit version of the Mogai, so it can only be used on that ship and it's fleet version. Add a script to automatically deequip it from every non-tier 5 Mogai or fleet Mogai.
Problem solved. You didn't nerf it, people didn't lose anything, and you will only ever see the 'uber healing' of the console on the Mogai and fleet version. Also the current tier 5 Mogai console goes to the Valdore instead and can be used on all Warbirds.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Don't change the effectiveness of it at all, but change it instead to come from the tier 5 retrofit version of the Mogai, so it can only be used on that ship and it's fleet version. Add a script to automatically deequip it from every non-tier 5 Mogai or fleet Mogai.
Problem solved. You didn't nerf it, people didn't lose anything, and you will only ever see the 'uber healing' of the console on the Mogai and fleet version. Also the current tier 5 Mogai console goes to the Valdore instead and can be used on all Warbirds.
Not sure if giving all warbirds access to the ion beam is a good solution. I know that most people don't tend to spec into particle generators, but those who do would get an extremely powerful weapon. This thing is the reason the Mogai is considered a vaper. 80k+ hits (unresistible due to electrical damage) are not unusual. Combined with a BO3 it never fails to make a kill in PvP.
When people will start to realize that is the combo aux2bat + FAW/CRF that makes everything so OP in this game? Without that the Valdore console is subpar, losing its 'shiny' status to other universal consoles.
Yeap. I am also sick of all the whines to nerf the valdore console. Its not OP, the builds are OP. In the builds of PvErs min/maxers or PvPers looks OP, but lets say on average players builds its just decent. Heck even on a sci ship, wich just 6 weapon slots (well... 5 if you take out the kinetic beam wich is allready a standard), its behaving subpar.
Also a big problem its stacking. On everything. Debuffs, damage, heals... Stacking should be limited, even boff skills cross-profesions. Like on dmg, if you have dmg boots from EPtW, when activating AP:Omega, the extra dmg boost not to apply, only the other efects. Same for heals, both shield and hull, incliding items/sets aswell. Like if you have HE or Fermionic field on, and the borg 2 pc set procs or the 3 pc Solanae proc, no extra heal to be gained, only cleanse. Same for the sheilds, if TSS is on or other shield healing ability its on, a proc from valdore console not to heal anything. And same for the debuffs, like limit the beta/delta stacks to, lets say, 5 times max (number is cuz of team players number and to not feel a nerf to the recluse/weavers owners...)
Also I find so hypocritical that some PvPers whine about the valdore console, yet not about soo many real OP stuff in this game like the Fleet Elite shields, Elite Fleet disruptors or the aceton assimilator (wich I remember some time ago even a dev stated in an interview that its OP and it should be nerfed).
Not sure if giving all warbirds access to the ion beam is a good solution. I know that most people don't tend to spec into particle generators, but those who do would get an extremely powerful weapon. This thing is the reason the Mogai is considered a vaper. 80k+ hits (unresistible due to electrical damage) are not unusual. Combined with a BO3 it never fails to make a kill in PvP.
I understand what you are getting at. It would give Romulans another 'vape' weapon, but honestly, unlike some of the other stuff out there, it is still only one target and doesn't ignore shields. Compared to something like Proton Barrage, which ignores shields, is AoE, and is hard to resist as well.
Sure you can use both of those things together (among other vaping 'tools') but in my opinion there is such a thing as 'overkill' when it comes to that kind of stuff, and honestly you do reach a point where you can kill someone, and you don't need the rest of your vape.
Besides, I'd rather give all Warbirds another vaping weapon over a console that lets them pretty much keep up shields more or less 100% of the time, letting them live a LOT longer, and a lot easier because of it.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Why aren't these people asking to nerf the Plasmonic Leech console?
Probably because they already *have* one.
Valedore is, at best, worth the slot it takes, unlike the must-have plasmonic leech. It's the 2nd most useful cstore console, but a distant 2nd. Everything else in cstore aren't worth the slot they take.
All this does is calling dev attention to nerfing the plasmonic leech. Talking about shooting yourself in the foot.:D
A fully spec'd flow caps toon can get what from plasmonic, 30 extra power to all subsystem? From a single slot console, worth 25m @Fed, 1500z @KDF, that doesnt even need to hit the target to activate its proc. 30 extra power, people. Back in the day, purple mk xii engineer consoles gave 4 to ONE system and people with 4 of those slotted used to brag about it.
Oh, and one could argue that the Scimitar cloaked barrage console is also OP, specially with the 2nd shield console. But i dont see anyone opening threads about it, lol.
Why aren't these people asking to nerf the Plasmonic Leech console?
Probably because they already *have* one.
Plasmonic Leech on my Fed is probably indeed a mite OP; on my Rom, however, it is simply a must-have Console, as you're not gonna hit that [Amp] across the board otherwise, ever.
Why aren't these people asking to nerf the Plasmonic Leech console?
Probably because they already *have* one.
I have one and I'd prefer it to be nerfed into the ground.
For your information, a lot of people were calling for a nerf to the plasmonic leech. The only reason the complaining has stopped is because we've all gotten bored of asking for it. Same goes for a lot of the overpowered stuff in this game, including elite fleet shields and field generators (which were op even when they weren't stackable).
I think there's room for some reasonable scaling back of performance on the Valdore and leech consoles without destroying their purpose. Some ideas:
Valdore console:
Add a min/max limit like the Solonae Hull Integrity Leech, and then add a minor or moderate skill power bonus to one of the shield skills (i.e. something like this: Min heal of 250 shields per facing, Max heal of 1500 shields per facing, +20 Starship Shield Emitters)
or
add a threshold limit like Nanite Health Monitor, Work Bees, and Repair Platform drones (i.e. Valdore console effect doesn't kick in until a single facing is below 50% or all 4 facings are below 75%)
Leech console:
add a max limit on the total, stacked amount of drain, perhaps at +10 all systems, then add a skill buff to compensate somewhat for the loss in performance to very high-end users of it, maybe +Starship EPS Systems or +Starship Flow Caps
And as a side note that occured to me while thinking about the leech console and it's effects, since it completely displaces the Engineering +power consoles, why not give them a revamp?
Engineering Power Bonus Consoles:
replace flat power bonus with a scaling efficiency bonus based on final power numbers (i.e. more power to system at low final number levels not power slider setting, amount of efficiency increases with greater mark level/rarity and a skill buff to Starship X Performance skill) Example console: "new" Console - Engineering - Booster Modulator: +x Aux power bonus(higher at low levels), +25 Starship Auxiliary Performance, the +x Aux power at maybe +15ish max when the Aux subsystem final number is around 25 (note: this console wouldn't count itself for the "final" power level)
That's quite the paradox, how could you nerf nerf when the nerf is nerfed. But how would the nerf be nerfed when the nerf is nerfed? This allows the nerf not to be nerfed since the nerf is nerfed? But if the nerf isn't nerfed, it could still nerf nerfs. But as soon as the nerf is nerfed, the nerf power is lost. So paradoxally it the nerf nerf lost its nerf, while it's still nerfed, which cannot be because the nerf was unable to nerf.
It doesn't need nerfing, only fixing because as it stands along with the solanae hull leech both proc off pretty much any form of attack coming from you or pets.
When I got serious about leveling up my Rom, first thing I did was get the infamous Valdore console. Then, several weeks later, I needed the slot for something else, and figured "Heck, why not?! For lolz." And, lo and behold, I hardly even miss it, LOL.
Tl;dr: reports of Valdore being OP are highly exaggerated.
Comments
Well said.
I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
IT should bother you. It should also bother you that the real heart of the problem is that feds didn't have any uniqueness to them at all, while the KDF got all the special toys AND the overpowered consoles.
O please. If that were the case, why does the KDF have such low player numbers on their side? Fed side has, or had, a majority of content behind them, while the KDF had to make do with what scraps they had until Cryptic got their act together and gave them a 1-50 lvling experience. They have far fewer ships than feds, and whenever they received ANYTHING, feds were right there banging on the door and crying to Cryptic to give them the same thing.
This thread just goes to show that it's happening again, except this time its the Romulans on the chopping block.
Member since early 2011
I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
You must be joking. I use it and it provides 2,400 heals per second. That console needs a serious nerf badly. If anyone says otherwise then you got a problem. And no nobody needs compensation for buying the ship. It was way OP and still is way OP.
Because no one cares about the KDF? They were always the Federation Foil in the TOS, and kinda interesting space samurais in TNG, and right back to honorable barbarians in DS9.
They just don't have a fanbase to speak of, so they will never have the numbers to match the feds. Cryptic has tried to favor them with better consoles and then better doffing, trying to get people to play them more but to no one's surprise, most people STILL just don't care about them. I get there are some hardcore KDF fans, but for some reason accepting this truth has always been an issue. "Oh, if ONLY the KDF had more content, or more attention instead of those vile feds we'd have more players!" Is something that's been bandied around for years, and its as hollow now as it was then.
I have the valdore console too and don't get nearly your 2,400 heals per second rate :eek:
After they nerfed that console the first time the heal doesn't come when you need it. It can take 15 sec before I get even 1 proc. It's just like the 2.5% proc rate of weapons, it can come at widely varying times and not always when you need it.
If you have 2,400 heals per second then they must have missed nerfing your console the first time and need to nerf yours hard. :rolleyes:
QFT. Yet another "Cry NERF! And let slip the dogs of QQ!". Too many cries for NERF and not enough talent to just make what they have work.
It was nerfed. The fact it is a zen console and was still nerfed is nothing short of a miracle. The devs won't nerf it again just because of people whining. If it's nerfed again, no one will buy it. Period. Therefore, Cryptic won't touch it again.
I have the stupid console. Is it nice? Sure. Is it a game changer like it used to be? I don't think so. It used to be you could throw it on and outheal anything out there. Even more than say a Tal Shiar Adapted Battlecruiser with the 2 part Borg set and its 2 part regeneration.
Now, it helps. But it is nothing like it was.
Oh I highly agree that it is bugged, even the solanae hull leech has been acting the exact same way.
Eliminate the bug, and it is perfectly fine at a 2.5%.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
If the devs feel the need to adjust the console they will. that have done it before.
The healing could use looked at as it has an outrageous benefit for cannon ships over beams. It would probably be better if there was a cap for min max healing. That way everyone gets the same amount of healing out of it an no one goes "WAHHH HE HEALS TOO MUCH!" or "WAHHHH I DON"T HEAL ENOUGH COMPARED TO THAT GUY!"
On my mogai I do see procs of over 2400, This is a bit much even if it usually happens when I'm at full shields, Perhaps there should also be a cap on when it can activate, only healing when you are damaged by x%
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Don't change the effectiveness of it at all, but change it instead to come from the tier 5 retrofit version of the Mogai, so it can only be used on that ship and it's fleet version. Add a script to automatically deequip it from every non-tier 5 Mogai or fleet Mogai.
Problem solved. You didn't nerf it, people didn't lose anything, and you will only ever see the 'uber healing' of the console on the Mogai and fleet version. Also the current tier 5 Mogai console goes to the Valdore instead and can be used on all Warbirds.
Not sure if giving all warbirds access to the ion beam is a good solution. I know that most people don't tend to spec into particle generators, but those who do would get an extremely powerful weapon. This thing is the reason the Mogai is considered a vaper. 80k+ hits (unresistible due to electrical damage) are not unusual. Combined with a BO3 it never fails to make a kill in PvP.
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Yeap. I am also sick of all the whines to nerf the valdore console. Its not OP, the builds are OP. In the builds of PvErs min/maxers or PvPers looks OP, but lets say on average players builds its just decent. Heck even on a sci ship, wich just 6 weapon slots (well... 5 if you take out the kinetic beam wich is allready a standard), its behaving subpar.
Also a big problem its stacking. On everything. Debuffs, damage, heals... Stacking should be limited, even boff skills cross-profesions. Like on dmg, if you have dmg boots from EPtW, when activating AP:Omega, the extra dmg boost not to apply, only the other efects. Same for heals, both shield and hull, incliding items/sets aswell. Like if you have HE or Fermionic field on, and the borg 2 pc set procs or the 3 pc Solanae proc, no extra heal to be gained, only cleanse. Same for the sheilds, if TSS is on or other shield healing ability its on, a proc from valdore console not to heal anything. And same for the debuffs, like limit the beta/delta stacks to, lets say, 5 times max (number is cuz of team players number and to not feel a nerf to the recluse/weavers owners...)
Also I find so hypocritical that some PvPers whine about the valdore console, yet not about soo many real OP stuff in this game like the Fleet Elite shields, Elite Fleet disruptors or the aceton assimilator (wich I remember some time ago even a dev stated in an interview that its OP and it should be nerfed).
I understand what you are getting at. It would give Romulans another 'vape' weapon, but honestly, unlike some of the other stuff out there, it is still only one target and doesn't ignore shields. Compared to something like Proton Barrage, which ignores shields, is AoE, and is hard to resist as well.
Sure you can use both of those things together (among other vaping 'tools') but in my opinion there is such a thing as 'overkill' when it comes to that kind of stuff, and honestly you do reach a point where you can kill someone, and you don't need the rest of your vape.
Besides, I'd rather give all Warbirds another vaping weapon over a console that lets them pretty much keep up shields more or less 100% of the time, letting them live a LOT longer, and a lot easier because of it.
Probably because they already *have* one.
--Red Annorax
Valedore is, at best, worth the slot it takes, unlike the must-have plasmonic leech. It's the 2nd most useful cstore console, but a distant 2nd. Everything else in cstore aren't worth the slot they take.
All this does is calling dev attention to nerfing the plasmonic leech. Talking about shooting yourself in the foot.:D
Oh, and one could argue that the Scimitar cloaked barrage console is also OP, specially with the 2nd shield console. But i dont see anyone opening threads about it, lol.
Plasmonic Leech on my Fed is probably indeed a mite OP; on my Rom, however, it is simply a must-have Console, as you're not gonna hit that [Amp] across the board otherwise, ever.
2-piece Borg + Valdore console + covariant cap x2 shield = casually tanking ESTF gate on my own with no shield or hull heals.
Seriously, this console needs a major nerf.
I have one and I'd prefer it to be nerfed into the ground.
For your information, a lot of people were calling for a nerf to the plasmonic leech. The only reason the complaining has stopped is because we've all gotten bored of asking for it. Same goes for a lot of the overpowered stuff in this game, including elite fleet shields and field generators (which were op even when they weren't stackable).
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Valdore console:
Add a min/max limit like the Solonae Hull Integrity Leech, and then add a minor or moderate skill power bonus to one of the shield skills (i.e. something like this: Min heal of 250 shields per facing, Max heal of 1500 shields per facing, +20 Starship Shield Emitters)
or
add a threshold limit like Nanite Health Monitor, Work Bees, and Repair Platform drones (i.e. Valdore console effect doesn't kick in until a single facing is below 50% or all 4 facings are below 75%)
Leech console:
add a max limit on the total, stacked amount of drain, perhaps at +10 all systems, then add a skill buff to compensate somewhat for the loss in performance to very high-end users of it, maybe +Starship EPS Systems or +Starship Flow Caps
And as a side note that occured to me while thinking about the leech console and it's effects, since it completely displaces the Engineering +power consoles, why not give them a revamp?
Engineering Power Bonus Consoles:
replace flat power bonus with a scaling efficiency bonus based on final power numbers (i.e. more power to system at low final number levels not power slider setting, amount of efficiency increases with greater mark level/rarity and a skill buff to Starship X Performance skill) Example console: "new" Console - Engineering - Booster Modulator: +x Aux power bonus(higher at low levels), +25 Starship Auxiliary Performance, the +x Aux power at maybe +15ish max when the Aux subsystem final number is around 25 (note: this console wouldn't count itself for the "final" power level)
Every time people call "nerf X" for their own made up reasons.
I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
Fix the bug, and it would be fine.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Tl;dr: reports of Valdore being OP are highly exaggerated.