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"The Undine are immune to Borg assimilation" Uhm...
flash525
Member Posts: 5,441 Arc User
Extracted directly from the Season 9, Dev Blog 2:
I think you will find you are incorrect: http://sto.gamepedia.com/Assimilated_Undine. Apparently the Undine aren't as immune as it seems to be claimed, so what gives? Someone slack on their homework?The Undine are immune to Borg assimilation, aggressive, and extremely xenophobic. They are telepathic and have an immune system that will destroy almost anything that penetrates their systems. This immune system can also be used as a means of attack. They are obsessed with strength, and will destroy lesser species at the first hint of a threat to their domination of Fluidic Space. Their biological technology is a rival for anything the Collective possesses, and surpasses our current technology, even with the addition of the discoveries from the Jenolan Dyson Sphere.
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its possible come season 9 this storyline will be changed, or the timeline of events will be adjusted so they now take place after the events of season 8.
Star Treks never done that before.
...still, it would have been better if they'd fixed/edited the missions before releasing above statement.
The mission with the assimilated Undine is basically about you destroying the research that the Borg did to assimilate the Undine. Not quite sure why that would work, since it's the Collective, but if it didn't work, the mission would be kinda pointless - the Borg can do it again. (THough realistically, they definitely can do it again, if they could pull it off once).
Isn't it nice to see when the lazy writing of this game bites it's own tail, yelps in pain but doesn't stop, spinning around, going faster until it creates a black hole of implausibility, laziness and stupid that just swallows the whole thing?
EDIT: Not that VOY didn't do the same already. The whole 8472 story arc is a huge glob of stupid which probably was written when they decided to buy cheap Babylon 5 CGI models and they need this evil bio alien enemy now. Because the whole planet killer thingy which everyone is so scared about - TOS established that a Constitution Class Cruiser loads enough firepower to obliterate a planet already...
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LOL
I hear ya there
Voyager was probably the template for poor Startrek writing in ways even Spock's Brain in TOS couldn't exceed.
That said, I think it's not neccessarily that this is biting them back now - if we somehow made the Borg knowledge of Undine assimilation go away, the Undine are still immune to it.
The mission itself is just problematic because it clearly shows that the Borg can] learn to overcome the Undine immunity, and the way we "undid" this is a bit questionable.
I suppose we could pretend that while the Borg have access to all knowledge of the Hive, the access is still distributed across its cubes, and for now, the knowledge of the Undine assimilation technology was only stored on that one cube, and backups had yet to be made.
But of course, the mission falls into the trap many stories fall - believing that just because you destroyed one prototype and some files on it, you could suppress the tech forever.
I have no problem however with the Borg eventually being able to overcome the Undine immunity. The Borg "shtick" is the ability to adapt, they should figure this out just as much as they can figure out how to modulate their shields against phasers or some deflector modification the Enterprise crew came up with to penetrate their weakness.
If anything, again, the failure in writing lies with Voyager - the Borg there needing help by the Federation is a bit questionable. Voyager suddenly implies the Borg are stagnant and can only improve with outside help and assimilation. But that doesn't explain their ability to adapt.
Maybe that could be reconciled with the idea that the Borg are not technologically superior in every respect to Starfleet, and at least Starfleet medical knowledge is actually in some aspects superior. Which kinda would make sense, because why else even bother assimilating Earth? (But why do it
But in this regard, the writing in Startrek in general might leave to be desired.
1. But a Connie needs time to orbit the planet. Pack of Bio-frigates, in formation, are a portable Death Star that creates asteroid fields where planets used to be.
2. While it's never explicitly stated in-game, I always though that the Undine assimilation was not 100% complete or effective, I mean, there's what, maybe a dozen or so on the cube in question, and over half of them (8) are "trapped" in research modules with radiation dampening fields keeping them immobile, and it's only when the player's threaten the Borg do they get freed. Even then, it's not 100% certain that the assimilated Undine is following orders because of the Collective, at that point in the story the Undine "still 100% hate" the "fleshy" races (as we haven't stuffed that Iconian gateway) and perhaps they're "let loose" knowing that they'd "save" the cube then the billions of drones it took to capture them would be sacrificed again to re-capture them before the cube is destroyed by them...
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Thats never happening in star trek.
And I'm a veteran of the Eugenic wars, that happened in 1992, as we all remember right?
And what was that with that Archer dude?
But seriously some rework in those mission is fine, but reworking essentially the entire point of that mission (which is one of the best in game IMO) would be dump. Changing the timeframe would be ok though...
Are they just getting rid of them though or replacing them with new missions?
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its been done before it can be done again.
cant really see how that specific mission can be reowrked, it would be better to delete the mission and start over.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
They're retconning their retcon of the retcon.
That usually happens when you have no clear direction and just make stuff up as you go along.
It was mentioned in the mission dialogue that during the attack that the Borg cube's connection to the Collective was disabled, so what that ship knew would be lost when it was destroyed.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
Or you're fixing stuff from the early days because you were rushing content out.
The Borg wanted to assimilate Species 8472. They failed to do so and got into big trouble until the Voyager found a way to use borg technology to drive Species 8472 back.
The Borg kept working on their assimilation technology, and aboard one Cube, they managed to find a way to assimilate Species 8472 members. This research and technology was destroyed by Alpha Quadrant forces and for some reason the Borg aboard the researching Cube could not give the tech to the whole Collective, so the technology is still unavailable.
So at this point in time, Species 8472 is still immune to assimilation.
But we also know that this immunity can be overcome.
It's not a retcon, just very contrived - there was only one Cube whose research was fruitful and that happened to be isolated from the Collective so long that it was unable to give any useful data to the Hive Mind?
Also, the Undine are constantly adapting themselves, Seven of Nine mentioned it during the episode "In The Flesh", even resisting her new improved nanoprobes for longer.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
And the fact that we saw assimilated members of 8472 negates at least that PR-dev blog. And the cop-out that "the cubes connection to the collective was cut" shows that STOs writers did not understand the concept of a hive mind.
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It is the classic immovable object versus irresistible force: Borg can adapt for anything versus Undine who cannot be corrupted. Eventually something is going to give, and in this case it was the Undine - and the Borg are the ultimate badguy in Trek, so they were bound to win.
As far as the Mission, the Borg were separated from the Collective and the data had no way of getting processed throughout the Collective. It remains unknown until another group of Borg try it again.
To be fair, nor then do the writers of the TV shows or movies, I'm reminded again of what the Borg on the Enterprise-E were trying to do with the deflector dish in "First Contact". The point is we've seen ships and groups of Borg become disconnected from the Collective before, and this instance isn't any more egregious than those.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
Ummm did you watch Star Trek??? season 1-3 of TOS changed things so much because they liked certain things a different way then they originally planed...Hench why Kirk is James T Kirk, and Not R Kirk, why ships run non Dilithium, and not Lithium, why they have Phasers, and not lasers, why they can fire with shields up, compared to not able to fire while shields are up... I can go on and on.
As for the Hive mind , you might want to re watch TNG Episodes Hugh ,Descent part1 and 2 about Borg being disconnected from the Hive.
Anyway you look at it - it's a complete mess.
Descent , Star Trek Canon as a whole is a mess , nothing new
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I guess it depends if there is a Queen with the severed Borg. In the episodes you mentioned, Hugh was a single ex-drone and the other disconnected Borg were led by Lore. In 'First Contact' the isolated collective was still led by a Queen. There could have been a Queen on board that cube in the mission of STO. We all know it is the Queen who controls the Borg.
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