I guess it depends if there is a Queen with the severed Borg. In the episodes you mentioned, Hugh was a single ex-drone and the other disconnected Borg were led by Lore. In 'First Contact' the isolated collective was still led by a Queen. There could have been a Queen on board that cube in the mission of STO. We all know it is the Queen who controls the Borg.
In Descent Hugh is among many disconnected Borg who are not under Lore - he eventually becomes their leader.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Apparently the Undine aren't as immune as it seems to be claimed, so what gives? Someone slack on their homework?
You're talking about a game based on a series of shows most noted for their liberal applications of plot armor.
The Undine are as immune to assimilation as is needed (at any given moment) for maintaining tension in the plotline of the moment. This can easily have them range from "impossible to assimilate" on Monday to "assimilated instantly upon even hearing the word Borg" on Wednesday to "99% impossible to assimilate" on Friday.
In case you don't know, there's a chance that that particular mission can be omitted from the story altogether, which would mean that the "assimilated Undine" would never have happened, especially since they're revamping the Undine and Borg missions. So, if you take that into consideration, the dev blog can be accurate that the Undine are immune to Borg assimilation.
In Descent Hugh is among many disconnected Borg who are not under Lore - he eventually becomes their leader.
"Meanwhile, Riker and Worf encounter Hugh, who tells them that Lore is the leader of this Borg group. He says that at one time Lore's help was necessary, but that he has since destroyed many Borg through brutal experimentation. Hugh's group are "rebel" Borg, wanting to remove Lore from power." ~Wikipedia.
You are correct sir. It's been years since I've seen the episode though, even if i have it on DVD.
Tyr shall give me strength! For the glory of Tempus! I am the hands of Shar! Flames of Kossuth, protect me! Oghma, grant me knowledge! Lolth commands, and I obey!
To be fair, nor then do the writers of the TV shows or movies, I'm reminded again of what the Borg on the Enterprise-E were trying to do with the deflector dish in "First Contact". The point is we've seen ships and groups of Borg become disconnected from the Collective before, and this instance isn't any more egregious than those.
You are right, I can't blame Cryptic for that. For the movie First Contact they rewrote the Borg entirely because the concept they introduced in TNG was presumably too compliated for a broad audience, at least that's what they thought. It was only then that they created a sexy techno dracullette, AKA "The Borg Queen" to have an easy-to-grasp adversary and reduced Borg to murderous Zombies with "infection bites". Prior to FC, there was no "Borg Queen".
Ummm did you watch Star Trek??? season 1-3 of TOS changed things so much because they liked certain things a different way then they originally planed...Hench why Kirk is James T Kirk, and Not R Kirk, why ships run non Dilithium, and not Lithium, why they have Phasers, and not lasers, why they can fire with shields up, compared to not able to fire while shields are up... I can go on and on.
As for the Hive mind , you might want to re watch TNG Episodes Hugh ,Descent part1 and 2 about Borg being disconnected from the Hive.
To be fair, the very first episodes of TOS were shot before Rodenberry made up a consistent universe to base the stories in. Much of the inconsistency is found in RL reasons. But some of those are completely plausible: Starfleet used lasers in "The Cage" - that's perfectly canon. Phasers were developed and deployed a few years later. And actually miss the neat away team equipment they had in the pilot
Not every TRIBBLE up is excusable, though. I never said that Star Trek's writing is perfect, it is not. It is especially downright horribly in later installments
As for the hive mind, yes watch this exact episode "I, Borg" and "Descendants". If a cube was to be disconected from the hive it would fall in a state of total confusion since every drone would think for itself, wouldn't recieve orders and some might even become self-aware. Presumably the first sort of emergency program that kicks in is for every individual Borg to try and reconnect to the hive mind, nothing else matters. And if that fails they start to act like headless chicken. If a Cube's connection is cut they wouldn't go on assimilating something, they'd be in total terror and confusion, probably unable to communicate with each other if they're full-bred Borg (yes, Borg bred prior to FC. Assimilation was a thing, though as shown with Locutus, it takes a lot of time and effort to do so). That's why it was so easy for Lore to take control over the disconnected drones that grew more and more self-aware to a point that some even revolted.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
As for the hive mind, yes watch this exact episode "I, Borg" and "Descendants". If a cube was to be disconected from the hive it would fall in a state of total confusion since every drone would think for itself, wouldn't recieve orders and some might even become self-aware.
That was how it went before they introduced the disco Queen. Now she calls the shots and the Borg are just mindless automatons controlled by her will. This was also made very clear in the Voyager episode with Annika/7 of 9's assimilated parents.
Personally I liked the Borg v1.0 without any queen a lot more though.
Tyr shall give me strength! For the glory of Tempus! I am the hands of Shar! Flames of Kossuth, protect me! Oghma, grant me knowledge! Lolth commands, and I obey!
That was how it went before they introduced the disco Queen. Now she calls the shots and the Borg are just mindless automatons controlled by her will. This was also made very clear in the Voyager episode with Annika/7 of 9's assimilated parents.
Personally I liked the Borg v1.0 without any queen a lot more though.
You are right and I really despise what they did to the Borg in FC, for once because they scrapped the original concept with all it's purposes and further because I, as part of the audience, feel like *they* think I'm too stupid to follow if I don't get a pair of cyber-boobies to point in the right direction.
That's why I harp on how Borg are SUPPOSED to be in the hoope that they'll undo the whole nonsense
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I find the concept of the Borg Queen completely acceptable as a Central Directive Authority. Otherwise, the Borg are nothing more than Assimilating Zombies with no objective other than eating....., I mean l, assimilating Brains for their perceived Culture..
As for the Undine, what was stopping the Borg in the first place from assimilating them was the fact that the Undine have a Triple Helix DNA structure. The Doctor makes note of it as he tries to treat Harry Kim from the viral infection.
(Will post youtube link later today)
Now, 2 decades later, and given the level of advancement the Borg have, I can see how they managed to adapt their assimilation technology/technique to account for a Triple Helix.
But, if Cryptic wants to return to the original theory about the Undine, by all mean, go ahead.
Star Trek Battles: For those who want to Play Star Trek Online as it WAS MEANT TO BE!!!
The simple answer is probably the best: the Borg DID discover a way to assimilate the Undine. The players DID disrupt their research before this information could be disseminated to the entire Collective. The Undine, in response, actively developed an immunity to the new method of assimilation, and are now entirely resistant to any new attempts to do so. Whatever loophole in their biology permitted any level of assimilation, that loophole has been closed. History does not need to be rewritten, just acknowledged and detailed.
As I understand it, Undine are immune to all normal methods of assimilation. What was going on in that Cube was not really a 'normal' method. The Borg were essentially doing every experiment they could find to adapt their process to work on captive Undine. We do not really know if that process took minutes or days.
It is the classic immovable object versus irresistible force: Borg can adapt for anything versus Undine who cannot be corrupted. Eventually something is going to give, and in this case it was the Undine - and the Borg are the ultimate badguy in Trek, so they were bound to win.
As far as the Mission, the Borg were separated from the Collective and the data had no way of getting processed throughout the Collective. It remains unknown until another group of Borg try it again.
Borg can't assimilate them - it would be funny if ferengi lobi merchants could put them in lockboxes.
Boy, you ARE going to be surprised. Even better, in another thread I wrote something about Lobi Consortium employees folding up bioships and putting them in reward packs:P
Anyway, if they decide to make Undines non-assimilable, I will still have my accolade (The Impossible). Not that the whole Undine racket makes any sense.
May 2013, automatic permanent ban for mentioning gold-seller sites pwebranflakes: this system is currently in place and working the way it should. moradum: I got banned for saying "I started my day with cutting off 3 MM off of the bottom of my cabinet"
Well lets just change the word impossible to "very difficult" when it comes to assimilating the undine and everyone can stop whining that a game doesnt live up to exact TV show canon...seriously...
Comments
You're talking about a game based on a series of shows most noted for their liberal applications of plot armor.
The Undine are as immune to assimilation as is needed (at any given moment) for maintaining tension in the plotline of the moment. This can easily have them range from "impossible to assimilate" on Monday to "assimilated instantly upon even hearing the word Borg" on Wednesday to "99% impossible to assimilate" on Friday.
Just like I said.
"Meanwhile, Riker and Worf encounter Hugh, who tells them that Lore is the leader of this Borg group. He says that at one time Lore's help was necessary, but that he has since destroyed many Borg through brutal experimentation. Hugh's group are "rebel" Borg, wanting to remove Lore from power." ~Wikipedia.
You are correct sir. It's been years since I've seen the episode though, even if i have it on DVD.
For the glory of Tempus!
I am the hands of Shar!
Flames of Kossuth, protect me!
Oghma, grant me knowledge!
Lolth commands, and I obey!
You are right, I can't blame Cryptic for that. For the movie First Contact they rewrote the Borg entirely because the concept they introduced in TNG was presumably too compliated for a broad audience, at least that's what they thought. It was only then that they created a sexy techno dracullette, AKA "The Borg Queen" to have an easy-to-grasp adversary and reduced Borg to murderous Zombies with "infection bites". Prior to FC, there was no "Borg Queen".
To be fair, the very first episodes of TOS were shot before Rodenberry made up a consistent universe to base the stories in. Much of the inconsistency is found in RL reasons. But some of those are completely plausible: Starfleet used lasers in "The Cage" - that's perfectly canon. Phasers were developed and deployed a few years later. And actually miss the neat away team equipment they had in the pilot
Not every TRIBBLE up is excusable, though. I never said that Star Trek's writing is perfect, it is not. It is especially downright horribly in later installments
As for the hive mind, yes watch this exact episode "I, Borg" and "Descendants". If a cube was to be disconected from the hive it would fall in a state of total confusion since every drone would think for itself, wouldn't recieve orders and some might even become self-aware. Presumably the first sort of emergency program that kicks in is for every individual Borg to try and reconnect to the hive mind, nothing else matters. And if that fails they start to act like headless chicken. If a Cube's connection is cut they wouldn't go on assimilating something, they'd be in total terror and confusion, probably unable to communicate with each other if they're full-bred Borg (yes, Borg bred prior to FC. Assimilation was a thing, though as shown with Locutus, it takes a lot of time and effort to do so). That's why it was so easy for Lore to take control over the disconnected drones that grew more and more self-aware to a point that some even revolted.
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They've done that with STO multiple times already.
That was how it went before they introduced the disco Queen. Now she calls the shots and the Borg are just mindless automatons controlled by her will. This was also made very clear in the Voyager episode with Annika/7 of 9's assimilated parents.
Personally I liked the Borg v1.0 without any queen a lot more though.
For the glory of Tempus!
I am the hands of Shar!
Flames of Kossuth, protect me!
Oghma, grant me knowledge!
Lolth commands, and I obey!
You are right and I really despise what they did to the Borg in FC, for once because they scrapped the original concept with all it's purposes and further because I, as part of the audience, feel like *they* think I'm too stupid to follow if I don't get a pair of cyber-boobies to point in the right direction.
That's why I harp on how Borg are SUPPOSED to be in the hoope that they'll undo the whole nonsense
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As for the Undine, what was stopping the Borg in the first place from assimilating them was the fact that the Undine have a Triple Helix DNA structure. The Doctor makes note of it as he tries to treat Harry Kim from the viral infection.
(Will post youtube link later today)
Now, 2 decades later, and given the level of advancement the Borg have, I can see how they managed to adapt their assimilation technology/technique to account for a Triple Helix.
But, if Cryptic wants to return to the original theory about the Undine, by all mean, go ahead.
Our Battles
This about sums it up
Boy, you ARE going to be surprised. Even better, in another thread I wrote something about Lobi Consortium employees folding up bioships and putting them in reward packs:P
Anyway, if they decide to make Undines non-assimilable, I will still have my accolade (The Impossible). Not that the whole Undine racket makes any sense.
pwebranflakes: this system is currently in place and working the way it should.
moradum: I got banned for saying "I started my day with cutting off 3 MM off of the bottom of my cabinet"