D'Deridex Refit, Ar'Kif Refit, Scimitars?

drathorin · March 2014

Torn between all 3 of these boats for end-game purposes.

While I see the scimitars around, I really don't see the other two very often. My favorite romulan vessel is usually the d'deridex, but I'm curious if there's a reason that you just don't see the retrofit of it around very much? It seems like it's the tankiest of all of em, the console -seems- good.. I'm just not sure why it's not as loved?

I was wondering if some folks could kinda give me the rundown comparison of the boats, comparing the actual stats is easily doable and have been doing so. But I'm talking more about the feel of em.

Any help and opinions are greatly appreciated.

fmgtorres1979 · March 2014

As far as the D'Deridex retrofit goes I'm confortable to speak about it. I'd say you don't see them around because they are slow and do less damage than a Scimitar. Still, on my FED alligned ROM, there is no other ship. That's all I'll fly with her. I have the Scimitar, used it for a while, but I kept missing the D'Deridex. So I went back to it, improved it, and it's now a ship I love (even more) to fly. Sure, it's slow, and doesn't do as much damage as the Scimitar did, there's no shileds when you cloak, etc, etc...but I love it.
I fly the Scimitar on the KDF alligned ROM, so I get to use both.

markhawkman · March 2014

My character Emani flies a D'D. I like it. But everyone compares it to a Scimitar and decides to go with Scimitar.

worffan101 · March 2014

DD is very tanky and the console is a monster finishing move against swarms of NPC enemies. Scimitar is generally a better ship overall, though, even though DD is tankier.

Fleet Ar'kif has the best alpha strikes in the game if you have the 2-piece Ar'kif set. It will instakill anything that isn't gimped out for plasma resistance.

Scimitar is just plain OP, and people like it that way.

reginamala78 · March 2014

DD can tank, sci, and put out a proper amount of firepower (not too much or too little) all at the same time. Most importantly, it has pedigree. Not leaving mine any time soon.

drathorin · March 2014

I admit that I was mostly wanting the ar'kiff and Scimitar because I kinda like bees. But I -love- that look of the D'deridex.

Thanks for the feedback guys. c: I think I know what I'm getting! Eventually -all- of them, but right now, D'Deridex >:3

dsaris · March 2014

My Fed Rom Tac has a Fleet Mogai, Fleet D'Dex and a tac Scim. The Fleet Mogai is so nasty I rarely even fly it... kills too quickly and takes the joy out of missions, and the Scimitar is so overdone it really bores me... which leaves the D'Dex. It's only a 5k DPS build, but I do enjoy flying it.

gerudon · March 2014

The problem is, that the D'D just can't do nearly as much damage as the Scimitar. My Romulan Tac turned 50 a week ago and I wasn't home for 4 days after that, so apart from a very few good items like the Plasmonic leech and the Rare Drone Ship I'm flying around in blue and green Mk. XI gear, but I still do well over 10k DPS already (last Log for Infi was 13k DPS) and get 1st and 2nd place in against the CE.

The D'D retrofit (even the fleet variant) just can't play in the same league. Yeah, it is tanky, but who needs that? I can tank everything in an Avenger with my Fed Engi and basically never die ever, without really skill for tanking.

You don't need to be really tanky at the moment, maybe the new space PVE stuff coming with Ep. 9.0 will change that, but at the moment a real tank is unnecessary. So the D'D is basically worthless. 3 Tac consoles, no chance to built a decent A2B built...yeah.

It is sad though, I love the look of the ship and would like to have it as an "off-shiP" to use now and then, but it can't hold a candle to the Scimitar.

Or to make a long story short: There is a reason why you see Scimitars everywhere, while D'D retrofits are very rare (but not in the good and purple kind of way). If you really want to fly a D'D by all means of course, but don't expect to much from it.

noroblad · March 2014

DD is one of the best ships in the game --- so long as you do not rank ships SOLELY by DPS output, its hard to beat. The console and officer layout are very balanced, consoles pull in at 3-4-3 and officers with at least a ltcmdr of each type. It is decent at everything (tanking, support, dps) and its only weakness really is the turn rate (and either you like big slow ships, or you don't, if not, its not a good ship for you).

The ark is an interesting ship, half carrier, half destroyer. It has a specialized dps layout, like most other rom ships -- too much tac officer, too little balance, and too many tac consoles. But if you really look at it, you lose one weapon to gain turn rate, vs a scimitar. That is an unimpressive trade off --- the weapon wins.

catliketyping · March 2014

The D'deridex is great. Tanky, above average firepower and sci. Maybe the best cruiser in the game? The BOFF layout is simply fantastic.

It's slow, though. If you dont like slow, then you might want to try out a mirror cruiser or the like to see if you like that style of play first.

drathorin · March 2014

I don't mind slow at all really. I have characters with Mauraders, mirror star cruisers, ambassador classes, Obelisks, etc

fmgtorres1979 · March 2014

Just don't make the mistake of going with heavy cannons :P

farmallm · March 2014

The D'Deridex was my first purchase Romulan ship for my Tac Romulan. I have loved it since then. Granted its kinda slow to turn. But it can beat on the NPCs really good. Plus use the cloak as well it really helps.

farmallm · March 2014

fmgtorres1979 wrote: »

Just don't make the mistake of going with heavy cannons :P

I have 1 HDC on mine. So far I hadn't had any issues using it. Just remember to lock your target in place and start the pounding.

fmgtorres1979 · March 2014

farmallm wrote: »

I have 1 HDC on mine. So far I hadn't had any issues using it. Just remember to lock your target in place and start the pounding.

I'm not going to call a DPS race on this, especially because I like to play the way I see fit and therefore my builds could also be improved for greater DPS, which obviously would mean a different play strategy. But tell me, how often does your cannon fire on an enemy. What is the time period between you firing it on an enemy and the next time you are in the arc to hit again? On a nimble ship you can have the targets in your arc frequently, on the D'Deridex, you can't. It takes great piloting and ample use of cloak. How often can you implement a decloak/fire/cloak stategy in endgame? On the MU set, for instance, when you're in the middle of three rifts with ships all around you, can you fire, cloak, reposition, decloak and fire?

A DHC D'Deridex is beautiful, but only for alpha strikes. Sadly since most of the space scenarios require either mobility or sustained fire (or both), the D'Deridex can not keep up wih it. Using a gravity well or a tractor beam help but I believe you end up doing less damage with greater effort because although you do more damage per attack you do less frequent attacks.

farmallm · March 2014

fmgtorres1979 wrote: »

I'm not going to call a DPS race on this, especially because I like to play the way I see fit and therefore my builds could also be improved for greater DPS, which obviously would mean a different play strategy. But tell me, how often does your cannon fire on an enemy. What is the time period between you firing it on an enemy and the next time you are in the arc to hit again? On a nimble ship you can have the targets in your arc frequently, on the D'Deridex, you can't. It takes great piloting and ample use of cloak. How often can you implement a decloak/fire/cloak stategy in endgame? On the MU set, for instance, when you're in the middle of three rifts with ships all around you, can you fire, cloak, reposition, decloak and fire?

A DHC D'Deridex is beautiful, but only for alpha strikes. Sadly since most of the space scenarios require either mobility or sustained fire (or both), the D'Deridex can not keep up wih it. Using a gravity well or a tractor beam help but I believe you end up doing less damage with greater effort
because although you do more damage per attack you do less frequent attacks.

I don't count the salvos my cannons fire. However they fire/hit a plenty. I hit the target with jam sensors which keeps in place. While the whole time my HDCs are pounding. Then I hit it with a tractor beam. Once again frozen in place and HDCs are pounding. Go past the larger vessel with vent plasma to make it stay again. Turn around and then its usually dead after that. Smaller ships are a little tricky, but using the singularity counsel it does wonders. I usually have those dead after that move unless one manages to escape.

I don't know my DPS on the ship. To me that don't matter. All it matters is the target is dead after I'm done with it.

Just because it turns slow, don't make the cannons useless.

fmgtorres1979 · March 2014

farmallm wrote: »

I don't count the salvos my cannons fire. However they fire/hit a plenty. I hit the target with jam sensors which keeps in place. While the whole time my HDCs are pounding. Then I hit it with a tractor beam. Once again frozen in place and HDCs are pounding. Go past the larger vessel with vent plasma to make it stay again. Turn around and then its usually dead after that. Smaller ships are a little tricky, but using the singularity counsel it does wonders. I usually have those dead after that move unless one manages to escape.

Just because it turns slow, don't make the cannons useless.

I didn't say they are useless, I said they have a tendency to be less effective because of the way the endgame scenarios are defined.
As you said yourself, you need several abilities just to keep a target in place. A cannon build requires you to be face to face with your target. On an STF, for instance, it makes you vulnerable, having to be head on to your target and staying stationary.

My first D'Deridex build was with cannons and I liked it, but it was way less effective than it is with beams. Obviously that head on it makes a whole lot more damage, but the number of times you are head on to a target are fewer than the ones you are maneuvering, hence being side to side, or rear facing your enemies.

But if it's what you like it's fine by me. I just don't think the OP should go with cannons as he has never tried the ship. But that's also his choice.

farmallm · March 2014

fmgtorres1979 wrote: »

I didn't say they are useless, I said they have a tendency to be less effective because of the way the endgame scenarios are defined.
As you said yourself, you need several abilities just to keep a target in place. A cannon build requires you to be face to face with your target. On an STF, for instance, it makes you vulnerable, having to be head on to your target and staying stationary.

My first D'Deridex build was with cannons and I liked it, but it was way less effective than it is with beams. Obviously that head on it makes a whole lot more damage, but the number of times you are head on to a target are fewer than the ones you are maneuvering, hence being side to side, or rear facing your enemies.

But if it's what you like it's fine by me. I just don't think the OP should go with cannons as he has never tried the ship. But that's also his choice.

Any build is good as long it works for the player. Not every player works off ones build as they each master their ship depending on how they play.

At one time I thought of taking the HDC off and put something else there. So I'm still playing around my current build. Currently mine is more a beam boat. Since I only have 1 cannon on the entire ship. The cannons help punch through the shields some so I can fire torpedoes.

fmgtorres1979 · March 2014

farmallm wrote: »

Any build is good as long it works for the player. Not every player works off ones build as they each master their ship depending on how they play.

At one time I thought of taking the HDC off and put something else there. So I'm still playing around my current build. Currently mine is more a beam boat. Since I only have 1 cannon on the entire ship. The cannons help punch through the shields some so I can fire torpedoes.

But I agree with you!

I was referring to a full DHC + turret build. I just think one should get a very good feel of the ship before venturing into something like that.

farmallm · March 2014

fmgtorres1979 wrote: »

But I agree with you!

I was referring to a full DHC + turret build. I just think one should get a very good feel of the ship before venturing into something like that.

I agree with you as well.

Now a full cannon/turret build I can see that creating issues. Only ship I will do a build like that is an escort. My Andorian for example. Full on cannons/turrets. Only beam I put on it was the dual beam bank. For the slight better firing arc and I have beam overload already on my main Tac.

fmgtorres1979 · March 2014

It also works on a Scimitar, but it's a lot more work on the D'Deridex, although very "pretty".

cptshephard · March 2014

I think most people say to go with a Scimitar. I don't own one, I have all the other Romulan ships though. I don't mind the Ar'kif Carrier, but I prefer the D'deridex. My Science Rommie has a Fleet D'deridex thanks to some extreme kindness from the NoP Public Service channel. You just have to learn how to best outfit it and fly it.

Admittedly I was determined to find enjoyment out of it regardless, because I love the ship from the shows, but I feel like I do a good job when using it in groups. I have it decked out with Fleet Plasma weapons and the tractor beam mine launcher. I want to get the KCB and the Romulan Experimental Plasma Beam eventually. The turn consoles from the Dilithium Mine help out with the turn rate, the science BOFF is great for GW, and I recently upgraded two of my three tac consoles to the Fleet Vulnerability Locator consoles from the T3 Spire, the +Plasma ones, and I saw a huge boost in damage output. I'll upgrade the third one once I have the fleet creds.

I also put plasmonic leech and the shield absorptive console on it, that helped, and I geared my skills toward helping the power levels. I run around 50 aux base, low engines, and the rest split between shields and weapons. I don't usually have an issue and I feel like I kill things well enough. The Plasmonic Leech helps, so does a +Aux and +Shields fleet singularity core, and a copy of EptW. I love it. I usually consider myself a sucky ship builder despite having been playing since Beta but I feel like I did a good job on this one and I really enjoy it.

ramsesthegreat1 · March 2014

The thing about STO is that no ship is better then the other, they all have strong spots and weak spots! If you want a very fast turning carrier with the ability to increase singularity charge, go to the Ar'Kif. Not to mention with the singularity beam and set bonus you can drill through a lot of hull. However its downside is the amount of weapons you want to put on it.:) Then there is the D'Deridex, this is your traditinal end game cruiser, and possibly the best tank in game, this ship isnt going to kill ships ultra fast, and isnt going to be using cannons, however it makes up for the fact that it can stand up to a cube longer then any other ship. [I dont know what the console does so find it yourself] Finally, we have the "predator"[Scimitar]! Last I checked, it has the turn rate of an assult cruiser, this is the kill fast vessal in game. It is the ONLY ship currently to be able to use those OP drone ships, and has great variability. Although its commander is set, its LT Commander is not, and there is also an Ensign not set. You can turn this ship into a tank, a killer, or a support vessal, deppending on your boffs. However, thats not all, if you dont like a heavy tactical console layout, get the tulwar of falchion versions, they have the same everything else except the console and consol layout it comes with. Your the pilot! Don't let others make the choice for you, only you know the skill you have!

talonxv · March 2014

I prefer the Ar'kif. It's fast, it turns on a dime without a console wasted, and it has good firepower plus carries fighters.

I love the ship and will fly no other besides the dyson warbird.

knuhteb5 · March 2014

Scimitars are everywhere. Arkifs are just reskinned Klingon destroyers with a hangar. If you don't mind flying slower cruisers, fly the d'deridex. It's painful at first when you break it in but eventually you'll come to love it. It took me 2 weeks of painful tinkering before the fleet D'D started feeling adequate in my humble opinion but her flexibility and tanking power are unrivaled in the republic fleet. D'deridexes are also beautiful in that they look like eagles gliding through space and their large size is a reflection of their power. Yes, I'm one of those people that still gets all giddy when I decloak the D'D in battle. You just can't go wrong with such an iconic ship. Scimitars will only hold the crown until elite stf's are made difficult again. Once that happens, scimis will no longer be able to hold aggro with their weak hulls.

gerudon · March 2014

knuhteb5 wrote: »

D'deridexes are also beautiful in that they look like eagles gliding through space and their large size is a reflection of their power. Yes, I'm one of those people that still gets all giddy when I decloak the D'D in battle. You just can't go wrong with such an iconic ship.

Even so I don't like the stats and config of the ship, I totally agree with that.The D'D is easily one if not THE coolest looking ship in the Star Trek franchise and in the game as well.

New and more difficult STF would also need a lot more damage, so neither a group with Scims only nor with D'Ds only would ideally work. The best STF would be one, for which you would need 1 or 2 Tanks (in D'D or what ever other tanky ship) AND a lot of damage in the form of escorts or good beam boats like the Scimitar.

But that would also mean, that Cryptic would need to build in some mechanism that ensures a good team composition, when you pug those STFs.

revandarklighter · March 2014

ramsesthegreat1 wrote: »

The thing about STO is that no ship is supposed to be better then the other,

Made some slight correction here.
The wildly considered opinion is that the Scimitar is the strongest ship in the game, and I tend to agree with that.

I have the Scimitar and just recently purchased the Ar'kif, I can't say anything about the D'deridex.

But I like the other 2 ships each on their own missions. Mirror Event, for example is SO MUCH BETTER with the Ar'Kif. The lack of turn rate on the scimitar can be quiet annoying.

So while the Scimitar might be ultimately stronger, for a lot of content the Ar'Kif is more comfortable. It melts the "easier" mops as fast as the scimitar and I find its special ability console to be among the most useful ones in the game.
Right now I think about buying the low level version for the quads/set bonus.

doffingcomrade · March 2014

The Scimitar has a turn of 7, easily the equal of any Fed cruiser. It does, however, have one particularly obnoxious drawback: For some reason the camera zoom-out distance is greatly restricted with it, and thus it is nigh-impossible to see in front of you due to your ship's enormous TRIBBLE blocking the view. These two factors tend to lead to throwing beams on it, so you will no longer need to see what is in front of you to kill things.

revandarklighter · March 2014

doffingcomrade wrote: »

The Scimitar has a turn of 7, easily the equal of any Fed cruiser. It does, however, have one particularly obnoxious drawback: For some reason the camera zoom-out distance is greatly restricted with it, and thus it is nigh-impossible to see in front of you due to your ship's enormous TRIBBLE blocking the view. These two factors tend to lead to throwing beams on it, so you will no longer need to see what is in front of you to kill things.

But the difference towards a fed cruiser is that it is build for forward weaponry (dual beams or dual cannons), which makes the low turn rate a much bigger problem then on cruisers.
Unless you use it differently.

Has a few more issues: on my mac book, played with low resolution I litarally can not see if it fires or not (cannons) due to its massive size compared to the small size bursts.

Also it slides extremely far.
Also I still kind of don't get how a ship with so much hull can die that fast...
I don't die that often, but it is still harder to keep her alive then escorts.

Still it has a lot of plus sides.
The scimitar herself is I believe the only ship with 5/3 weapon slots and 5 tac consoles, means it has more damage potential then any other ship.
And shields while cloak is an extreme luxury.
Also the drones are pretty useful. Might be the best pets in game. And with the 2 set bonus and an RCS console the turn problems are... Eased down a bit.

gerudon · March 2014

revandarklighter wrote: »

But the difference towards a fed cruiser is that it is build for forward weaponry (dual beams or dual cannons), which makes the low turn rate a much bigger problem then on cruisers.
Unless you use it differently.

Has a few more issues: on my mac book, played with low resolution I litarally can not see if it fires or not (cannons) due to its massive size compared to the small size bursts.

Also it slides extremely far.
Also I still kind of don't get how a ship with so much hull can die that fast...
I don't die that often, but it is still harder to keep her alive then escorts.

Still it has a lot of plus sides.
The scimitar herself is I believe the only ship with 5/3 weapon slots and 5 tac consoles, means it has more damage potential then any other ship.
And shields while cloak is an extreme luxury.
Also the drones are pretty useful. Might be the best pets in game. And with the 2 set bonus and an RCS console the turn problems are... Eased down a bit.

Only because a ship CAN equip cannons, doesn't mean it should.

I honestly don't have a problem with the maneuverability of the Scimitar (and it is not like the D'D would be any better), but then again, I'm have commanded an Ody for some time.

revandarklighter · March 2014

gerudon wrote: »

Only because a ship CAN equip cannons, doesn't mean it should.

I honestly don't have a problem with the maneuverability of the Scimitar (and it is not like the D'D would be any better), but then again, I'm have commanded an Ody for some time.

Dual beams have the same problem.
If you take beam arrays you have a sovereign with battle cloak and a cmdr tac and less survivability. Not bad but nothing special. And not a fraction of the damage.

D'Deridex Refit, Ar'Kif Refit, Scimitars?

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