The Kumari Wing Cannons deal 1,114.6 base damage per hit every 3 seconds, coming to about 300+ DPS.
Currently, the Phaser Lance deals 9k damage per it's one-two hit every three minutes, which is about 100 DPS. (If both shots hit.)
So, completely unbuffed at 50 weapon power, the Wing Cannons will deal damage equal to the Lance within 48 second, and at the end of the Lance's 3 minute cooldown, the Wing Cannons will have dealt approximately 67,000 damage or a 372% increase in damage.
Moderatly buffed by passive modifiers such as Skills (maxed for energy weapon damage), Weapon power (125), and tactical consoles (3, the number available to the Dread I have now) available to all players, the Wing Cannons get aroud 6,500 damage per hit, and so about 2,200 DSP.
With those same modifiers, I can get the Lance to around 14,000 per hit, and so about 155 DPS.
With these numbers, the Wing Cannons will out damage the Lance within 12 seconds. At three minutes, the Wing Cannons deal 396,000 damage or 1,414% increase over the Lance in similar conditions.
(I have absolutely no idea if my math is correct, feel free to nitpick.)
Now, these numbers mean absolutely nothing to this idea, as I'm comparing an ability to a weapon, though I thought they were intestering.
Funny, by turning the Lance into a copy of the Kumari's Wing Cannons, we're not really asking for a buff of any kind, just an addition to make the idea of the Lance have a viable representation. The Wing Cannons are already balanced out compared to other equippable weapons anyway, and so there wouldn't be any need for testing.
It really seems like just a "Copy-Paste" would be needed.
I don't see this happening without people willing to put another $25 down on a new ship. You're talking work that involves art, testing, systems, database hookups that are non-trivial.
I think this is a separate $25 purchase or it doesn't happen and if people lose enthusiasm at the idea of people buying it as a separate ship, the dev response internally will be that it isn't financially justifiable.
Your conclusions are grossly exaggerated. All of the modifications proposed make use of assets already on the live server; the work is either absolutely trivial or the game's back-end needs to be put out of its misery.
As for the financially justifiable aspect? This is opportunity for Cryptic to leverage even their polarized audience into a long-term financial/morale support base being that the move is (a) practically costless and all-but-implemented, (b) does not undermine the game's content as their general monetizing gimmicks have done (see all cases of "power creep"), (c) would undoubtedly garner praise even from people who hate them for their attention to detail, and (d) is a demonstration that their "we love Star Trek" is not merely lip service.
The only injury Cryptic faces is from (a) not doing it or (b) doing it and then deciding to fall back on the current "Star Trek sells itself so much so we can shovel steaming piles onto your plate and you will eat it up, so UP YOURS!" mentality which is why the game is what it is today - a series of gimmicks funded by a lottery.
Shot A - Riker
Shot B - Enterprise
Shot C - Klingon
Shot D - Enterprise
Shot E - Klingon (until Enterprise passes through)
Shot F - Worf
It is the case that in order to satisfy you arguments shot B and D must overlap (phaser blast 2 in B is 1 in D), meaning between B and D we have 3 actual phaser blasts: 1 hitting in shot C; 1 hitting off-screen (as indicated by the start of shot E where there is a 2nd visible damage shot ventral amidships aft); 1 hitting at the start of E. However, if this is the case then the disruptor fire through-out shot D would also be in part of shot C where it is not present at all.
Therefore in order to satisfy your arguments we have to either:
(a) mute the video and stop watching with the first hit
or
(b) assume egregiously horrendous editing
d
By chance, did you do A?
I've done A now.
I don't think the lag is big enough to discount that it could be the same shot. And missing at that range in that sequence just doesn't make sense. They did the Jaws thing on those ships, the Big E had them dead to rights. And none of the shots in shot D were shown as missing. The punch of that shot was that you just saw the Enterprise perforate the warships with no difficulty, it doesn't hold up if they missed the first shot. On another note, unless the opponent is cloaked, the Enterprise never missed that I can recall (especially not at the ridiculous rate that you miss in this game).
No quarter given then: Bring the footage up and look away as the audio plays. Repeat this action several times. If your conclusions do not change then not only are you effectively arguing "God Gun", you are arguing that Star Trek's production team did a hack-job as in order for you to be correct that is precisely what is required in this case.
Idea #1: Cannon Rapid Fire (meaning slightly different tactical powers than one would assume for a "beam")
Idea #2: Change the duration of the animation used to represent the shot being fired to synchronize with the weapon's firing pattern.
Well people have been asking for a rapid fire single target phaser ability for a while now.
On another note, why isn't there a long burn phaser attack? It transpired plenty of times in the show that they would fire continuously on a single spot until they went through, it would be similar if not identical to how the Kinetic Cutting Beam fires now.
I have been proposing a "all weapons rapid fire" and a "all weapons scattery volley" in place of the current 6 powers for a while now, it received a lot of jeering from people who arguably did not watch Star Trek.
Firing arc is one of those game elements, like flight pitch, that requires the suspension of disbelief.
Well legitimately every beam array had a 360 arc barring line of sight. The old dual beam banks had multiple emplacements to cover all arcs.
What I wouldn't I could see a Phaser lance actually having maybe a 45 degree firing arc, I think the 10 degree arc is reasonable for in game purposes however.
And what I wouldn't give to be able to do a Yeager loop or a barrel roll.
My co-drafter for this Kumari-cannon-to-"lance"-conversion-proposal put the whole "can the phaser shoot me?" in fairly unambiguous terms: The "old style" banks are ball turret analogs of eyes. If they can turn towards a target completely they can "see" it with fire. The "new style" arrays are analogs to framed mirrors. If you can see the surface of the mirror over the frame's edge clearly that part can "see" you with fire.
As for altering the beams coverage - again this is one of those suspension of disbelieve moments otherwise we fall down the slippery slope that ends with other changes, like the Defiant's quads being nearly straight ahead only.
The Kumari Wing Cannons deal 1,114.6 base damage per hit every 3 seconds, coming to about 300+ DPS.
Currently, the Phaser Lance deals 9k damage per it's one-two hit every three minutes, which is about 100 DPS. (If both shots hit.)
So, completely unbuffed at 50 weapon power, the Wing Cannons will deal damage equal to the Lance within 48 second, and at the end of the Lance's 3 minute cooldown, the Wing Cannons will have dealt approximately 67,000 damage or a 372% increase in damage.
Moderatly buffed by passive modifiers such as Skills (maxed for energy weapon damage), Weapon power (125), and tactical consoles (3, the number available to the Dread I have now) available to all players, the Wing Cannons get aroud 6,500 damage per hit, and so about 2,200 DSP.
With those same modifiers, I can get the Lance to around 14,000 per hit, and so about 155 DPS.
With these numbers, the Wing Cannons will out damage the Lance within 12 seconds. At three minutes, the Wing Cannons deal 396,000 damage or 1,414% increase over the Lance in similar conditions.
(I have absolutely no idea if my math is correct, feel free to nitpick.)
Now, these numbers mean absolutely nothing to this idea, as I'm comparing an ability to a weapon, though I thought they were intestering.
Funny, by turning the Lance into a copy of the Kumari's Wing Cannons, we're not really asking for a buff of any kind, just an addition to make the idea of the Lance have a viable representation. The Wing Cannons are already balanced out compared to other equippable weapons anyway, and so there wouldn't be any need for testing.
It really seems like just a "Copy-Paste" would be needed.
The math seems on course. You should take a look at the Andorian Escort's cannon-power-console - it makes the phaser-lance-toggle look even worse.
The math seems on course. You should take a look at the Andorian Escort's cannon-power-console - it makes the phaser-lance-toggle look even worse.
I planned on giving that a once-over when I got back online.
I've taken out entire groups of spheres with a single buffed shot from that console, and completely dropped Tac Cube's shield facing from full (on Elite, mind you), while the current Lance power barely scratches things.
Now, I don't have the Sci Andorian Escort's console, though I don't think it's really comparable in the way that the overcharge one is to the Lance.
I planned on giving that a once-over when I got back online.
I've taken out entire groups of spheres with a single buffed shot from that console, and completely dropped Tac Cube's shield facing from full (on Elite, mind you), while the current Lance power barely scratches things.
Now, I don't have the Sci Andorian Escort's console, though I don't think it's really comparable in the way that the overcharge one is to the Lance.
I had someone with both ships check the phaser-console - they said it looks like the phaser lance was stuck into a console and given a 2 second charge up and a 2km aoe with each hit (and it never misses). Did you get that from it too?
What about as an extra proc? Perhaps something like the Piercing Tetryon weapons, 2.5% chance for 50% shield penetration. Basically a third of the Elachi proc but without any lockout, thus allowing for it to occure more than once each volley.
Stat-wise, could look something like...
Phaser Spinal Lance [Dmg]x3
Energy Damage
45' targeting arc
10 kilometer Range
3 sec recharge
to target: X Phaser Damage (_DPS)
to self: -15 Weapon Power when firing other weapons
to target: 2.5% Chance: Disable 1 Subsystem for 5 sec
2.5% Chance for 50% of attack to ignore enemy shields
That needs to be [Acc]x3. Want the damn thing to hit the broad side of a barn please.
Also, I'm all for there being an ACTUAL weapon, but I'd rather it not be a separate item I must equip. If the dread were blessed with more than 4 weapon slots in front, then I might find this less bothersome, but since that will not change... unless the devs introduce the concept of "universal" weapon slots which can be fore or aft... I don't want to give up any more of that precious front real estate. I'd like it built in to the ship like the sci destroyer's proton cannons. That or simply reduce the cool on the click-power so it feels like I can use it reasonably frequently and or increase the accuracy. Without accuracy increase, maybe so far as bringing the cool down to 30-60 seconds, with accuracy improvement, 90 seconds. 3 minutes is too long.
That needs to be [Acc]x3. Want the damn thing to hit the broad side of a barn please.
Also, I'm all for there being an ACTUAL weapon, but I'd rather it not be a separate item I must equip. If the dread were blessed with more than 4 weapon slots in front, then I might find this less bothersome, but since that will not change... unless the devs introduce the concept of "universal" weapon slots which can be fore or aft... I don't want to give up any more of that precious front real estate. I'd like it built in to the ship like the sci destroyer's proton cannons. That or simply reduce the cool on the click-power so it feels like I can use it reasonably frequently and or increase the accuracy. Without accuracy increase, maybe so far as bringing the cool down to 30-60 seconds, with accuracy improvement, 90 seconds. 3 minutes is too long.
I will update the original post to show the "Tactical Mode" concept posted on the 2nd/3rd pages - that is where caasicam and me mention leveraging the DSD's special slot.
That needs to be [Acc]x3. Want the damn thing to hit the broad side of a barn please.
Also, I'm all for there being an ACTUAL weapon, but I'd rather it not be a separate item I must equip. If the dread were blessed with more than 4 weapon slots in front, then I might find this less bothersome, but since that will not change... unless the devs introduce the concept of "universal" weapon slots which can be fore or aft... I don't want to give up any more of that precious front real estate. I'd like it built in to the ship like the sci destroyer's proton cannons. That or simply reduce the cool on the click-power so it feels like I can use it reasonably frequently and or increase the accuracy. Without accuracy increase, maybe so far as bringing the cool down to 30-60 seconds, with accuracy improvement, 90 seconds. 3 minutes is too long.
I will update the original post to show the "Tactical Mode" concept posted on the 2nd/3rd pages - that is where caasicam and me mention leveraging the DSD's special slot.
Basically, that idea is to have the Lance (weapon version) be similar to the DSD's Proton cannons. And so the ship would switch to a separate "mode" to activate the weaponized Lance.
Kinda would like to point out to those reading, and/or unsure of exactly what we're proposing here.
The base idea, of having a version of the Phaser Lance as an equippable weapon exactly like the Kumari's Wing Cannons does not require any changes to be made to the ship or the current in-built click-power Phaser Lance.
It would not replace the Phaser Lance, but augment it.]
It does not change, replace, remove, or buff the Phaser Lance we have now, but is pre-balanced and tested addition to a ship to make it far more like the one we saw on-screen.
Now, that's just the base idea, having the tactical mode and such is adding more new tech to this ship.
Kinda would like to point out to those reading, and/or unsure of exactly what we're proposing here.
The base idea, of having a version of the Phaser Lance as an equippable weapon exactly like the Kumari's Wing Cannons does not require any changes to be made to the ship or the current in-built click-power Phaser Lance.
It would not replace the Phaser Lance, but augment it.]
It does not change, replace, remove, or buff the Phaser Lance we have now, but is pre-balanced and tested addition to a ship to make it far more like the one we saw on-screen.
Now, that's just the base idea, having the tactical mode and such is adding more new tech to this ship.
Yep, here is a snippet of the updated original post that summarizes the proposal:
TL;DR of Proposal: We recycle weapon assets to get a gun item for use on the Galaxy-X Dreadnought to complement its "gun power" in much the same way as the Andorian Escort has a gun+gun-power. A number of other current ships (e.g. Bortas/Bortasqu') have gun-powers without a gun-item or have been shown with gun's that could have powers (e.g. the ST:Voyager series with the short-lived Iso-Kinetic Cannon) with all cases being near-costless opportunities for Cryptic to improve content. We recycle the Dyson Science Destroyers "Tactical Mode" ship-mechanic assets to give the Galaxy-Dreadnought platform greater utility while maintaining "reasonable balance" (by making the player choose between hangar and lance for example). This can be applied to other ships with feasible novel gun-items (e.g. Bortas/Bortasqu', Voyager, etc) and feasible player experience systems not currently in game at all (e.g. directly controlling space stations in combat).
Updating that took a while, it is busy 'round here.
Fascinating ideas... especially since something like the wing cannons have "flavor" for those who want it and it can be replaced if the player chooses to go a different route. And choices=good.
Fascinating ideas... especially since something like the wing cannons have "flavor" for those who want it and it can be replaced if the player chooses to go a different route. And choices=good.
Exactly, no one is forcing anyone to actually use the Phaser Lance Weapon, and it would be able to be replaced just as any other weapon can be.
Like you said, just as some people want the Wing Cannons for a more authentic look, they would be able to equip the Lance should they feel the need to.
Even with the second option, no one would be forced to go into the alternate mode and use the Lance Weapon, as the ship would be perfectly fliable in the default.
Fascinating ideas... especially since something like the wing cannons have "flavor" for those who want it and it can be replaced if the player chooses to go a different route. And choices=good.
Exactly, no one is forcing anyone to actually use the Phaser Lance Weapon, and it would be able to be replaced just as any other weapon can be.
Like you said, just as some people want the Wing Cannons for a more authentic look, they would be able to equip the Lance should they feel the need to.
Even with the second option, no one would be forced to go into the alternate mode and use the Lance Weapon, as the ship would be perfectly fliable in the default.
haha, precisely; someone "should" write priority one and get them to ask about this kumari-cannon-modification during an interview - that will get people's attention.
If the lance manifests as an equipable weapon, I would like it to be a "Phaser lance beam cannon." And work with both beam and cannon powers, similarly to how the experimental proton weapon does (though that requires set bonuses) so that it isn't a nerf to those who choose to go more beams or more cannons with the limited boff skills.
If the lance manifests as an equipable weapon, I would like it to be a "Phaser lance beam cannon." And work with both beam and cannon powers, similarly to how the experimental proton weapon does (though that requires set bonuses) so that it isn't a nerf to those who choose to go more beams or more cannons with the limited boff skills.
That is a good idea, the Wing Cannons are already modified by Cannon: Rapid Fire and Scatter Volley anyway.
What if the Lance weapon was modified by Fire At Will and Rapid Fire? Beam: Overloaded would be a bit redundant on the Lance (as it would for all intents and purposes, replace the Phaser Spinal Lance in-built ability), and possibly overpowered considering Dual Beam Banks can be pretty bad with that, and Scatter Volley is a cannon power that would make Fire At Will redundant.
With Fire At Will, the Lance could simply AoE auto-target like other beam weapons, though only firing one beam at once instead of two. With Rapid Fire, it could increase the Lance's RoF/DPS while applying the Damage Per Hit debuff that normal cannons get while using that ability.
The Kumari Wing Cannons deal 1,114.6 base damage per hit every 3 seconds, coming to about 300+ DPS.
Currently, the Phaser Lance deals 9k damage per it's one-two hit every three minutes, which is about 100 DPS. (If both shots hit.)
So, completely unbuffed at 50 weapon power, the Wing Cannons will deal damage equal to the Lance within 48 second, and at the end of the Lance's 3 minute cooldown, the Wing Cannons will have dealt approximately 67,000 damage or a 372% increase in damage.
Moderatly buffed by passive modifiers such as Skills (maxed for energy weapon damage), Weapon power (125), and tactical consoles (3, the number available to the Dread I have now) available to all players, the Wing Cannons get aroud 6,500 damage per hit, and so about 2,200 DSP.
With those same modifiers, I can get the Lance to around 14,000 per hit, and so about 155 DPS.
With these numbers, the Wing Cannons will out damage the Lance within 12 seconds. At three minutes, the Wing Cannons deal 396,000 damage or 1,414% increase over the Lance in similar conditions.
(I have absolutely no idea if my math is correct, feel free to nitpick.)
Now, these numbers mean absolutely nothing to this idea, as I'm comparing an ability to a weapon, though I thought they were intestering.
Funny, by turning the Lance into a copy of the Kumari's Wing Cannons, we're not really asking for a buff of any kind, just an addition to make the idea of the Lance have a viable representation. The Wing Cannons are already balanced out compared to other equippable weapons anyway, and so there wouldn't be any need for testing.
It really seems like just a "Copy-Paste" would be needed.
This will really scare you. While I hadn't really thought that the Klingons had something Comparable to the Lance, the Bortas Disruptor Autocannon is pretty serious, check it out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA8yQZ15Sjw?t=18m42s
No quarter given then: Bring the footage up and look away as the audio plays. Repeat this action several times. If your conclusions do not change then not only are you effectively arguing "God Gun", you are arguing that Star Trek's production team did a hack-job as in order for you to be correct that is precisely what is required in this case.
We're gonna have to let this one rest though, as I think you're flat out wrong.
I don't want a god gun, but a balanced weapon that actually does what it is shown to do. It shouldn't miss if you're within the extremely narrow firing arc.
I have been proposing a "all weapons rapid fire" and a "all weapons scattery volley" in place of the current 6 powers for a while now, it received a lot of jeering from people who arguably did not watch Star Trek.
I feel your pain.
For all the abilities taken from the various games and random one offs that the crews used to survive the day that have shown up in this game, it's rather amazing how little of the actual combat tactics that were used in the show that have shown up here. Focus burn beam attacks, all weapons rapid fire and scatter volley, a single target beam array rapid fire....beam overload going by the sound effect isn't an overload but simply a fully charged shot. Hmm...
Anybody play Fight Night? Phaser fire in the series was kind of like the boxing in the later games. The way you would charge a haymaker (a full array shot) or just throw rapid jabs (simply firing with no charge). Perhaps something for a different iteration.
My co-drafter for this Kumari-cannon-to-"lance"-conversion-proposal put the whole "can the phaser shoot me?" in fairly unambiguous terms: The "old style" banks are ball turret analogs of eyes. If they can turn towards a target completely they can "see" it with fire. The "new style" arrays are analogs to framed mirrors. If you can see the surface of the mirror over the frame's edge clearly that part can "see" you with fire.
As for altering the beams coverage - again this is one of those suspension of disbelieve moments otherwise we fall down the slippery slope that ends with other changes, like the Defiant's quads being nearly straight ahead only.
Very true and completely understood.
The math seems on course. You should take a look at the Andorian Escort's cannon-power-console - it makes the phaser-lance-toggle look even worse.
Kinda would like to point out to those reading, and/or unsure of exactly what we're proposing here.
The base idea, of having a version of the Phaser Lance as an equippable weapon exactly like the Kumari's Wing Cannons does not require any changes to be made to the ship or the current in-built click-power Phaser Lance.
It would not replace the Phaser Lance, but augment it.]
It does not change, replace, remove, or buff the Phaser Lance we have now, but is pre-balanced and tested addition to a ship to make it far more like the one we saw on-screen.
Now, that's just the base idea, having the tactical mode and such is adding more new tech to this ship.
For those that don't want to use the Lance, would there be the option to remove it altogether and just have the three nacelle look?
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
This will really scare you. While I hadn't really thought that the Klingons had something Comparable to the Lance, the Bortas Disruptor Autocannon is pretty serious, check it out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA8yQZ15Sjw?t=18m42s
Though I haven't tried it myself, I've been told that the Autocannon is pretty decent. I also think that it would would work perfectly as a "platform" for the Klingon version of the Kumari wing Cannons. Just as the Kumari has the Wing Cannons and the Console Super-Shot-Chargers, the Bortas could easily have a "Big gun" weapon and the current Autocannon as the modifying console.
For those that don't want to use the Lance, would there be the option to remove it altogether and just have the three nacelle look?
The weaponized Lance would be no different from the Kumari's Wing Cannons, which can be used and removed to the player's liking just like any other weapon.
As for the Lance ability, that's a different subject and topic, though I see it either
A, staying as a separate built-in ability (thus no change).
B, becoming a synergized console like the ones available to the Kumari to modify it's Wing Cannons shots.
or C, Becoming an ability granted from a 2-set bonus from equipping the Lance Weapon and the Cloak.
Personally, I'd prefer A, because it simplifies things.
Unless you mean the Lance being removed from the model itself, which I can't see happening if it stays an in-built ability, and because the Kumari's giant cannons stick around whether or not the Wing Cannons themselves are equipped.
This will really scare you. While I hadn't really thought that the Klingons had something Comparable to the Lance, the Bortas Disruptor Autocannon is pretty serious, check it out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA8yQZ15Sjw?t=18m42s
Though I haven't tried it myself, I've been told that the Autocannon is pretty decent. I also think that it would would work perfectly as a "platform" for the Klingon version of the Kumari wing Cannons. Just as the Kumari has the Wing Cannons and the Console Super-Shot-Chargers, the Bortas could easily have a "Big gun" weapon and the current Autocannon as the modifying console.
I have seen the autocannon in use. I think they used its base-properties for the Veteran ship's DTS lotus attacks.
For those that don't want to use the Lance, would there be the option to remove it altogether and just have the three nacelle look?
The weaponized Lance would be no different from the Kumari's Wing Cannons, which can be used and removed to the player's liking just like any other weapon.
As for the Lance ability, that's a different subject and topic, though I see it either
A, staying as a separate built-in ability (thus no change).
B, becoming a synergized console like the ones available to the Kumari to modify it's Wing Cannons shots.
or C, Becoming an ability granted from a 2-set bonus from equipping the Lance Weapon and the Cloak.
Personally, I'd prefer A, because it simplifies things.
Unless you mean the Lance being removed from the model itself, which I can't see happening if it stays an in-built ability, and because the Kumari's giant cannons stick around whether or not the Wing Cannons themselves are equipped.
The weaponized lance would be no different so long as just an item is created with no other modifications.
As for what it should be, (A) integrated or a (B) console?
Strip the power, put it in a console, toss the fleet ship out of the game, give people who bought the base-model with 5 modules the c-store ship as an unlock, refund people who bought the fleet-model with 1 module their module back, upgrade the base model with +1 console and boosted shields (TRIBBLE the hull bonus), and then?
THEN the real fun begins. But in the meantime lets focus on the gun.
That is a good idea, the Wing Cannons are already modified by Cannon: Rapid Fire and Scatter Volley anyway.
What if the Lance weapon was modified by Fire At Will and Rapid Fire? Beam: Overloaded would be a bit redundant on the Lance (as it would for all intents and purposes, replace the Phaser Spinal Lance in-built ability), and possibly overpowered considering Dual Beam Banks can be pretty bad with that, and Scatter Volley is a cannon power that would make Fire At Will redundant.
With Fire At Will, the Lance could simply AoE auto-target like other beam weapons, though only firing one beam at once instead of two. With Rapid Fire, it could increase the Lance's RoF/DPS while applying the Damage Per Hit debuff that normal cannons get while using that ability.
Overload wouldn't be redundant because overload can be used once every 15-30 seconds, so it's a completely different beast from the lance's clicky power, especially with that craptastic cool time. And a lance overload would probably have a far better chance to hit the target >>
Fire at will would not be redundant because the point was for a dread pilot to be able to equip all beams and the lance and use beam powers like faw and or overload, or they could equip all cannons with the lance and the lance would be affected by cannon powers like rapid fire or scatter volley.
So basically I wanted the lance beam cannon to be affected by both so that it doesn't matter which skills we go for with our limited boff seating, the lance will be enhanced by them.
I highly doubt the bortas will get a *real* weapon to represent the disruptor auto cannon, that could be seen as giving the bortas a little something extra over the ody (the fed side counterpart) and people would be all kinds of fussed by that... so yeah...
Overload wouldn't be redundant because overload can be used once every 15-30 seconds, so it's a completely different beast from the lance's clicky power, especially with that craptastic cool time. And a lance overload would probably have a far better chance to hit the target >>
Fire at will would not be redundant because the point was for a dread pilot to be able to equip all beams and the lance and use beam powers like faw and or overload, or they could equip all cannons with the lance and the lance would be affected by cannon powers like rapid fire or scatter volley.
So basically I wanted the lance beam cannon to be affected by both so that it doesn't matter which skills we go for with our limited boff seating, the lance will be enhanced by them.
And I agree with you, I'm just trying to find a comprimize between having both cannon and beam powers, with how Cryptic seems allow weapons that are affected by both cannon and beam powers operate. As you mentioned, the Experimental Proton weapon is affected by one of each, and then more with set bonuses.
What if this were the case for the weaponized Lance, and it got more abilities when equipping the Cloak as well?
I highly doubt the bortas will get a *real* weapon to represent the disruptor auto cannon, that could be seen as giving the bortas a little something extra over the ody (the fed side counterpart) and people would be all kinds of fussed by that... so yeah...
I really can't say that I disagree, just based on Cryptic's track record.
"Klinks getting new toy for their flagship and Feds don't? Lolwhatsorceryisthis."
I hope people realize the KDF has the Guramba destroyer which sports a disruptor lance weapon.
The Javelin attached to Siege Mode is mechanically and fictionally disparate from the weapon portrayed in the series on the "Future Enterprise."
And given how any beam weapon is a lance within the context of the term lance, while only the Guramba has a spinal-weapon within context of the term spinal weapon, I must ask: What is your point?
Overload wouldn't be redundant because overload can be used once every 15-30 seconds, so it's a completely different beast from the lance's clicky power, especially with that craptastic cool time. And a lance overload would probably have a far better chance to hit the target >>
Fire at will would not be redundant because the point was for a dread pilot to be able to equip all beams and the lance and use beam powers like faw and or overload, or they could equip all cannons with the lance and the lance would be affected by cannon powers like rapid fire or scatter volley.
So basically I wanted the lance beam cannon to be affected by both so that it doesn't matter which skills we go for with our limited boff seating, the lance will be enhanced by them.
And I agree with you, I'm just trying to find a comprimize between having both cannon and beam powers, with how Cryptic seems allow weapons that are affected by both cannon and beam powers operate. As you mentioned, the Experimental Proton weapon is affected by one of each, and then more with set bonuses.
What if this were the case for the weaponized Lance, and it got more abilities when equipping the Cloak as well?
They could easily let the "weaponized beam" use beam and cannon powers and use mode-restriction logic as other ships have to limit what powers can be used when (you want BFAW/CSV? Saucer mode! You want BO/CRF? No Saucer mode!). It certainly would not undermine their enabling saucer separation on the ship.
There is no real need for synergy restrictions on an of these elements otherwise but arguably it would make sense for the pew-pew toggle to have one attached to the hypothetical weapon item.
I highly doubt the bortas will get a *real* weapon to represent the disruptor auto cannon, that could be seen as giving the bortas a little something extra over the ody (the fed side counterpart) and people would be all kinds of fussed by that... so yeah...
I really can't say that I disagree, just based on Cryptic's track record.
"Klinks getting new toy for their flagship and Feds don't? Lolwhatsorceryisthis."
If anything is a counterpart of anything else contextually the Galaxy-X Dreadnought is the counterpart of the Bortas.
The only real connection the Odyssey has with the Bortas is that they were both ridiculous gimmicks sold to see how much money people will dump into P2W if Star Trek is behind it.
The new, separated lance, however, is entirely balanced, and perhaps OP.
I'm getting similar performance to a fully particle generated Isometric Charge, for "free" in terms of console space.
High end pushing 800-900 DPS, low ends in the 250-300, average 400-500. That is almost identical to what I get out of an Iso charge. And it is instant, not all chancy like an Iso Charge.
Seeing as most other 3 minute burst cooldown options fall right into this DPS range, it is most certainly working as intended, is a little better than average for not taking up a console, and I wouldn't really want them to mess with it at all.
The original lance, however, is still a mess. It needs to hit harder, or not miss, or something. It's broken and needs love. I don't even care what it is.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Pretty much agree on all parts about the none-separated Lance. Personally, I don't like having to use a gimmick console in order to have a very different version of the Lance that works reasonable good.
Even with an equipable weapon-version of the "Sniper-Lance", the clicky power itself definitely needs help. Either keeping the damage the same, and just making it insanely accurate, or keep the accuracy the way it is and make it's damage on par with the Javelin that easily does 90k spikes every minute.
On the topic of a weapon-Lance, a whole bunch of ships have unique weapons already (Besides the already mentioned Andorian Escorts of which this idea is based off of).
Elachi ships have the Crescent Wave mega-gun console and the Heavy Single Disruptor Cannon.
Hirogen ships have the Sniper Overload Tetryon shot and the Sniper Heavy Single Tetryon Cannon.
Defiant's got it's quad cannons.
Regent's got it's 180 Q-Torp.
D'Kora's Swarm Missile ability and the Rapid Fire Missiles.
Well/Mobius with the Chroniton DBB.
And that's just ships Feds can fly.
This unique weapon trend would really work wonderfully when applied to the Bort and the Gal-X.
Comments
Currently, the Phaser Lance deals 9k damage per it's one-two hit every three minutes, which is about 100 DPS. (If both shots hit.)
So, completely unbuffed at 50 weapon power, the Wing Cannons will deal damage equal to the Lance within 48 second, and at the end of the Lance's 3 minute cooldown, the Wing Cannons will have dealt approximately 67,000 damage or a 372% increase in damage.
Moderatly buffed by passive modifiers such as Skills (maxed for energy weapon damage), Weapon power (125), and tactical consoles (3, the number available to the Dread I have now) available to all players, the Wing Cannons get aroud 6,500 damage per hit, and so about 2,200 DSP.
With those same modifiers, I can get the Lance to around 14,000 per hit, and so about 155 DPS.
With these numbers, the Wing Cannons will out damage the Lance within 12 seconds. At three minutes, the Wing Cannons deal 396,000 damage or 1,414% increase over the Lance in similar conditions.
(I have absolutely no idea if my math is correct, feel free to nitpick.)
Now, these numbers mean absolutely nothing to this idea, as I'm comparing an ability to a weapon, though I thought they were intestering.
Funny, by turning the Lance into a copy of the Kumari's Wing Cannons, we're not really asking for a buff of any kind, just an addition to make the idea of the Lance have a viable representation. The Wing Cannons are already balanced out compared to other equippable weapons anyway, and so there wouldn't be any need for testing.
It really seems like just a "Copy-Paste" would be needed.
Your conclusions are grossly exaggerated. All of the modifications proposed make use of assets already on the live server; the work is either absolutely trivial or the game's back-end needs to be put out of its misery.
As for the financially justifiable aspect? This is opportunity for Cryptic to leverage even their polarized audience into a long-term financial/morale support base being that the move is (a) practically costless and all-but-implemented, (b) does not undermine the game's content as their general monetizing gimmicks have done (see all cases of "power creep"), (c) would undoubtedly garner praise even from people who hate them for their attention to detail, and (d) is a demonstration that their "we love Star Trek" is not merely lip service.
The only injury Cryptic faces is from (a) not doing it or (b) doing it and then deciding to fall back on the current "Star Trek sells itself so much so we can shovel steaming piles onto your plate and you will eat it up, so UP YOURS!" mentality which is why the game is what it is today - a series of gimmicks funded by a lottery.
No quarter given then: Bring the footage up and look away as the audio plays. Repeat this action several times. If your conclusions do not change then not only are you effectively arguing "God Gun", you are arguing that Star Trek's production team did a hack-job as in order for you to be correct that is precisely what is required in this case.
I have been proposing a "all weapons rapid fire" and a "all weapons scattery volley" in place of the current 6 powers for a while now, it received a lot of jeering from people who arguably did not watch Star Trek.
My co-drafter for this Kumari-cannon-to-"lance"-conversion-proposal put the whole "can the phaser shoot me?" in fairly unambiguous terms: The "old style" banks are ball turret analogs of eyes. If they can turn towards a target completely they can "see" it with fire. The "new style" arrays are analogs to framed mirrors. If you can see the surface of the mirror over the frame's edge clearly that part can "see" you with fire.
As for altering the beams coverage - again this is one of those suspension of disbelieve moments otherwise we fall down the slippery slope that ends with other changes, like the Defiant's quads being nearly straight ahead only.
The math seems on course. You should take a look at the Andorian Escort's cannon-power-console - it makes the phaser-lance-toggle look even worse.
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I planned on giving that a once-over when I got back online.
I've taken out entire groups of spheres with a single buffed shot from that console, and completely dropped Tac Cube's shield facing from full (on Elite, mind you), while the current Lance power barely scratches things.
Now, I don't have the Sci Andorian Escort's console, though I don't think it's really comparable in the way that the overcharge one is to the Lance.
Comparable to what? Isn't that the tachyon blast?
I had someone with both ships check the phaser-console - they said it looks like the phaser lance was stuck into a console and given a 2 second charge up and a 2km aoe with each hit (and it never misses). Did you get that from it too?
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That needs to be [Acc]x3. Want the damn thing to hit the broad side of a barn please.
Also, I'm all for there being an ACTUAL weapon, but I'd rather it not be a separate item I must equip. If the dread were blessed with more than 4 weapon slots in front, then I might find this less bothersome, but since that will not change... unless the devs introduce the concept of "universal" weapon slots which can be fore or aft... I don't want to give up any more of that precious front real estate. I'd like it built in to the ship like the sci destroyer's proton cannons. That or simply reduce the cool on the click-power so it feels like I can use it reasonably frequently and or increase the accuracy. Without accuracy increase, maybe so far as bringing the cool down to 30-60 seconds, with accuracy improvement, 90 seconds. 3 minutes is too long.
I will update the original post to show the "Tactical Mode" concept posted on the 2nd/3rd pages - that is where caasicam and me mention leveraging the DSD's special slot.
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Basically, that idea is to have the Lance (weapon version) be similar to the DSD's Proton cannons. And so the ship would switch to a separate "mode" to activate the weaponized Lance.
The base idea, of having a version of the Phaser Lance as an equippable weapon exactly like the Kumari's Wing Cannons does not require any changes to be made to the ship or the current in-built click-power Phaser Lance.
It would not replace the Phaser Lance, but augment it.]
It does not change, replace, remove, or buff the Phaser Lance we have now, but is pre-balanced and tested addition to a ship to make it far more like the one we saw on-screen.
Now, that's just the base idea, having the tactical mode and such is adding more new tech to this ship.
Yep, here is a snippet of the updated original post that summarizes the proposal:
Updating that took a while, it is busy 'round here.
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Awesome, awesome. Amazing job at keeping that OP post tidy.
Just wanted to be sure people didn't think we were competing for changes to the Phaser Lance ability.
(Because there are quite a few suggestions going around on how to do that already.)
I noticed those threads. I wonder when the moderators are going to move/merge the five+ threads on this topic as they did with what I recall being only 3 threads during the "move/merge of completely disparate discussions into one thread during the backlash over the Galaxy announcements." The thread I started to breakdown what the announcement said about the Dreadnought ended up on page 2.
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Exactly, no one is forcing anyone to actually use the Phaser Lance Weapon, and it would be able to be replaced just as any other weapon can be.
Like you said, just as some people want the Wing Cannons for a more authentic look, they would be able to equip the Lance should they feel the need to.
Even with the second option, no one would be forced to go into the alternate mode and use the Lance Weapon, as the ship would be perfectly fliable in the default.
haha, precisely; someone "should" write priority one and get them to ask about this kumari-cannon-modification during an interview - that will get people's attention.
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move along, move along.
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That is a good idea, the Wing Cannons are already modified by Cannon: Rapid Fire and Scatter Volley anyway.
What if the Lance weapon was modified by Fire At Will and Rapid Fire? Beam: Overloaded would be a bit redundant on the Lance (as it would for all intents and purposes, replace the Phaser Spinal Lance in-built ability), and possibly overpowered considering Dual Beam Banks can be pretty bad with that, and Scatter Volley is a cannon power that would make Fire At Will redundant.
With Fire At Will, the Lance could simply AoE auto-target like other beam weapons, though only firing one beam at once instead of two. With Rapid Fire, it could increase the Lance's RoF/DPS while applying the Damage Per Hit debuff that normal cannons get while using that ability.
This will really scare you. While I hadn't really thought that the Klingons had something Comparable to the Lance, the Bortas Disruptor Autocannon is pretty serious, check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA8yQZ15Sjw?t=18m42s
We're gonna have to let this one rest though, as I think you're flat out wrong.
I don't want a god gun, but a balanced weapon that actually does what it is shown to do. It shouldn't miss if you're within the extremely narrow firing arc.
I feel your pain.
For all the abilities taken from the various games and random one offs that the crews used to survive the day that have shown up in this game, it's rather amazing how little of the actual combat tactics that were used in the show that have shown up here. Focus burn beam attacks, all weapons rapid fire and scatter volley, a single target beam array rapid fire....beam overload going by the sound effect isn't an overload but simply a fully charged shot. Hmm...
Anybody play Fight Night? Phaser fire in the series was kind of like the boxing in the later games. The way you would charge a haymaker (a full array shot) or just throw rapid jabs (simply firing with no charge). Perhaps something for a different iteration.
Very true and completely understood.
For those that don't want to use the Lance, would there be the option to remove it altogether and just have the three nacelle look?
Though I haven't tried it myself, I've been told that the Autocannon is pretty decent. I also think that it would would work perfectly as a "platform" for the Klingon version of the Kumari wing Cannons. Just as the Kumari has the Wing Cannons and the Console Super-Shot-Chargers, the Bortas could easily have a "Big gun" weapon and the current Autocannon as the modifying console.
The weaponized Lance would be no different from the Kumari's Wing Cannons, which can be used and removed to the player's liking just like any other weapon.
As for the Lance ability, that's a different subject and topic, though I see it either
A, staying as a separate built-in ability (thus no change).
B, becoming a synergized console like the ones available to the Kumari to modify it's Wing Cannons shots.
or C, Becoming an ability granted from a 2-set bonus from equipping the Lance Weapon and the Cloak.
Personally, I'd prefer A, because it simplifies things.
Unless you mean the Lance being removed from the model itself, which I can't see happening if it stays an in-built ability, and because the Kumari's giant cannons stick around whether or not the Wing Cannons themselves are equipped.
I have seen the autocannon in use. I think they used its base-properties for the Veteran ship's DTS lotus attacks.
The weaponized lance would be no different so long as just an item is created with no other modifications.
As for what it should be, (A) integrated or a (B) console?
Strip the power, put it in a console, toss the fleet ship out of the game, give people who bought the base-model with 5 modules the c-store ship as an unlock, refund people who bought the fleet-model with 1 module their module back, upgrade the base model with +1 console and boosted shields (TRIBBLE the hull bonus), and then?
THEN the real fun begins. But in the meantime lets focus on the gun.
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These consoles (below) can increase damage of a players Phaser Lance.
- Assimilated Module +0.92% Critical Chance. +9.2% Critical Severity.
- Tachyokinetic Converter +0.76% Critical Chance. +7.6% Critical Severity.
- Zero-Point Energy Conduit +1.8% Critical Chance.
- Phaser Relay Phaser damage.
- Directed Energy Distribution Manifold Beam Weapon damage.
- Nukara Particle Converter +10% Beam Accuracy
Overload wouldn't be redundant because overload can be used once every 15-30 seconds, so it's a completely different beast from the lance's clicky power, especially with that craptastic cool time. And a lance overload would probably have a far better chance to hit the target >>
Fire at will would not be redundant because the point was for a dread pilot to be able to equip all beams and the lance and use beam powers like faw and or overload, or they could equip all cannons with the lance and the lance would be affected by cannon powers like rapid fire or scatter volley.
So basically I wanted the lance beam cannon to be affected by both so that it doesn't matter which skills we go for with our limited boff seating, the lance will be enhanced by them.
And I agree with you, I'm just trying to find a comprimize between having both cannon and beam powers, with how Cryptic seems allow weapons that are affected by both cannon and beam powers operate. As you mentioned, the Experimental Proton weapon is affected by one of each, and then more with set bonuses.
What if this were the case for the weaponized Lance, and it got more abilities when equipping the Cloak as well?
I really can't say that I disagree, just based on Cryptic's track record.
"Klinks getting new toy for their flagship and Feds don't? Lolwhatsorceryisthis."
Yes. Though I'm not sure I understand what you're saying with this...
The Javelin attached to Siege Mode is mechanically and fictionally disparate from the weapon portrayed in the series on the "Future Enterprise."
And given how any beam weapon is a lance within the context of the term lance, while only the Guramba has a spinal-weapon within context of the term spinal weapon, I must ask: What is your point?
They could easily let the "weaponized beam" use beam and cannon powers and use mode-restriction logic as other ships have to limit what powers can be used when (you want BFAW/CSV? Saucer mode! You want BO/CRF? No Saucer mode!). It certainly would not undermine their enabling saucer separation on the ship.
There is no real need for synergy restrictions on an of these elements otherwise but arguably it would make sense for the pew-pew toggle to have one attached to the hypothetical weapon item.
If anything is a counterpart of anything else contextually the Galaxy-X Dreadnought is the counterpart of the Bortas.
The only real connection the Odyssey has with the Bortas is that they were both ridiculous gimmicks sold to see how much money people will dump into P2W if Star Trek is behind it.
Anything else is, at best, semantic.
They're trying to say they can read the STO Wiki.
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The new, separated lance, however, is entirely balanced, and perhaps OP.
I'm getting similar performance to a fully particle generated Isometric Charge, for "free" in terms of console space.
High end pushing 800-900 DPS, low ends in the 250-300, average 400-500. That is almost identical to what I get out of an Iso charge. And it is instant, not all chancy like an Iso Charge.
Seeing as most other 3 minute burst cooldown options fall right into this DPS range, it is most certainly working as intended, is a little better than average for not taking up a console, and I wouldn't really want them to mess with it at all.
The original lance, however, is still a mess. It needs to hit harder, or not miss, or something. It's broken and needs love. I don't even care what it is.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Even with an equipable weapon-version of the "Sniper-Lance", the clicky power itself definitely needs help. Either keeping the damage the same, and just making it insanely accurate, or keep the accuracy the way it is and make it's damage on par with the Javelin that easily does 90k spikes every minute.
On the topic of a weapon-Lance, a whole bunch of ships have unique weapons already (Besides the already mentioned Andorian Escorts of which this idea is based off of).
Elachi ships have the Crescent Wave mega-gun console and the Heavy Single Disruptor Cannon.
Hirogen ships have the Sniper Overload Tetryon shot and the Sniper Heavy Single Tetryon Cannon.
Defiant's got it's quad cannons.
Regent's got it's 180 Q-Torp.
D'Kora's Swarm Missile ability and the Rapid Fire Missiles.
Well/Mobius with the Chroniton DBB.
And that's just ships Feds can fly.
This unique weapon trend would really work wonderfully when applied to the Bort and the Gal-X.