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acceptance, and you. a horizon thread

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  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Still, MWO, Star Citizen, none of those games interest me because they are not Star Trek.



    I felt that way once, and then after I really thought about it.

    About JHAS and Galors, and Elachi and Voth and Dinosaurs with lasers, Orions/Gorn/Nausicaans in the KDF, Feds killing aliens by the droves and...


    Yeah, when I think about it this game is losing me because it isn't Star Trek either.
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Still, MWO, Star Citizen, none of those games interest me because they are not Star Trek. Playing STO, however broken or casual it might get, is always better than playing nothing at all...

    That's how I felt, but after 3+ years, enough is enough.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • killdozer9211killdozer9211 Member Posts: 920 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    as much as you hate casual players in this section of the forums, pvpers will continue to remain an endangered species if they can't open PvP up to casual players who find it fun enough to make the jump and become un-casual.

    Otherwise, it will be the same 50 players in the same 6 fleets until you all die of boredom.

    This casual-ization has to happen somewhere, at some point.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    as much as you hate casual players in this section of the forums...

    I don't hate casual players...I hate that Cryptic caters to them almost exclusively at the expense of everybody else.

    There are difficulty settings in the game...Cryptic put them there...they should use them.

    This includes PvP, but nobody likes my ideas on changing things - those casual friendly queues and the not-so-casual lobbies for teams...with higher rewards, reputation, and all the rest.

    Some casual folks want their cake and a slice of pie...TRIBBLE 'em.

    edit: Added "Some" before casual, because I hate stereotyping. I honestly don't hate casual players, but I do hate some casual players. But then again, I hate some PvPers - I hate some DPS folks - I hate all sorts of individuals...but I hate to stereotype. Usually only happens when my blood sugar's high and I'm in a bad mood...I had just checked it, so I decided to check some of my last posts.
  • killdozer9211killdozer9211 Member Posts: 920 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I don't hate casual players...I hate that Cryptic caters to them almost exclusively at the expense of everybody else.

    There are difficulty settings in the game...Cryptic put them there...they should use them.

    This includes PvP, but nobody likes my ideas on changing things - those casual friendly queues and the not-so-casual lobbies for teams...with higher rewards, reputation, and all the rest.

    Casual folks want their cake and a slice of pie...TRIBBLE 'em.

    More often than not, I like your ideas, or at least the ones I see.

    I know I generally come off as... unfriendly towards the pvp community in this game, but it's because it's so unapproachable. It's fun, I make a lot more friends through pvp than pve, but there's a very large divide between those that know everything and those that know nothing.

    We need a ladder, a weenie hut jr league, a shallow end of the pool, something to get more players into PvP, because as long as pvpers are such a small minority, there's no benefit to the cost of giving pvp the attention we all know it needs.

    Right now, pvp is shooting itself in the foot, and it's with threads like this that completely lament the idea of it become accessible to more people.

    I'm going to end saying that no, the whole experience shouldn't have every corner padded for new players, I agree there. But it takes incentive to make the leap from casual to whatever the politically correct word for the alternative is.
  • thishorizonthishorizon Member Posts: 1,158
    edited March 2014
    as much as you hate casual players in this section of the forums, pvpers will continue to remain an endangered species if they can't open PvP up to casual players who find it fun enough to make the jump and become un-casual.

    Otherwise, it will be the same 50 players in the same 6 fleets until you all die of boredom.

    This casual-ization has to happen somewhere, at some point.


    casual players deserve solid mechanics and challenging gameplay as well.

    as long as ive been gaming, there has always been a reward for the person who dedicates more of their time to the challenge.

    whether it be via gear grind, or player experience.

    on my side of the table....and many others, we feel that the PvP aspect of the game has gone soley to those with the gear grind.

    which actually, doesnt help the casual gamer at all... due to the immense time spent to aquire such gear. or...the whole P2W scenario.

    this coupled with changes in game mechanics are a very tricky situation to manage. once you set down the path to try and balance these things, i can only imagine the challenges the devs have encountered.

    but there lacks a focus on an outcome. without focus on and end goal...the decision making process is blurred.....reasons being....

    to get to an outcome in mind...one must have one in the first place. then focus on the problems at hand, the resources available, and the actions to take to resolve such problems.

    and most importantly...the follow up on actions taken....here in lays the key to success.

    without an outcome in mind...well.... the decisions made seem convoluted to those in the environment, and the lack of follow up just shines a light onto any actions not beneficial to the situation.

    its a weird conundrum, the current environment....

    have fun kill bad guys
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I've been trying to write another reply here...but each edit that's meant to sound nicer than the version before just ends up being worse than the version before. I think I can narrow my longwinded attempts to the following...

    Cryptic continuously redefines casual. They continuously lower the bar and redefine it in an attempt to gain new customers. Their intended casual player from a year ago is not the same as from two years ago...nor is the current one the same as from a year ago. Unfortunately, just like players from the start and all along...they're all forgotten. Cryptic lowers the bar, caters to that group, and ignores everybody from where the bar was previously. They do this over and over. It's insulting and bad business.

    Cryptic tends to operate under some sort of mantra of "it doesn't have to make sense if it's fun!" without considering the ramifications of such actions. As such, there will never be any semblance of balance in the game. New fun things that continue to bend the rules are continuously added until the rules are nothing but a pile of spaghetti. It's insulting and bad business.

    Cryptic actually believes they're doing an awesome job. It's sad...
  • brandonflbrandonfl Member Posts: 892
    edited March 2014
    I've been trying to write another reply here...but each edit that's meant to sound nicer than the version before just ends up being worse than the version before. I think I can narrow my longwinded attempts to the following...

    Cryptic continuously redefines casual. They continuously lower the bar and redefine it in an attempt to gain new customers. Their intended casual player from a year ago is not the same as from two years ago...nor is the current one the same as from a year ago. Unfortunately, just like players from the start and all along...they're all forgotten. Cryptic lowers the bar, caters to that group, and ignores everybody from where the bar was previously. They do this over and over. It's insulting and bad business.

    Cryptic tends to operate under some sort of mantra of "it doesn't have to make sense if it's fun!" without considering the ramifications of such actions. As such, there will never be any semblance of balance in the game. New fun things that continue to bend the rules are continuously added until the rules are nothing but a pile of spaghetti. It's insulting and bad business.

    Cryptic actually believes they're doing an awesome job. It's sad...

    And why shouldn't they feel like they're doing an awesome job? People keep throwing money at them as if it were a good game. Truth is though, without the IP that wouldn't be happening.
    LOLSTO
  • rylanadionysisrylanadionysis Member Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I am still in denial that the PvP aspect of the game is going to someday get a balance pass.

    Yet everything points the opposite way. meh
    Gold.jpg
    Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
    Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
    Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    We need a ladder, a weenie hut jr league, a shallow end of the pool, something to get more players into PvP
    We need a flat power curve.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    brandonfl wrote: »
    And why shouldn't they feel like they're doing an awesome job? People keep throwing money at them as if it were a good game. Truth is though, without the IP that wouldn't be happening.

    But that's the thing...why are they getting that money?

    The PvP folks that need to keep up with everybody else?
    The DPS PvE folks that are trying to get even more ludicrous numbers?
    The Casual Mk XII (whatever the latest level of casual is) buying things to try to get stuff done that even the Casual Mk XI (the level of casual prior) takes for granted.

    And yes, if this wasn't pseudo Star Trek...how many folks would still be here?
  • therealmttherealmt Member Posts: 428 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    snoge00f wrote: »
    That's how I felt, but after 3+ years, enough is enough.

    Hey! I felt this too!

    Dont CnP me !!! :p
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • realminirealmini Member Posts: 243 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    therealmt wrote: »
    Hey! I felt this too!

    Dont CnP me !!! :p

    just gettin started kdf or bust

    [Combat (Self)] Your Proton does More than ever
  • therealmttherealmt Member Posts: 428 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    voxlagind wrote: »
    The first thing I tell new players is: Do not spend real money on STO for a minimum of six months. The Star Trek brand will lure you in, and as a beginner, the possibilities seem endless. You'll quickly realize you need to spend real money to catch up, greatly anticipating the end game. But then you'll get to the end, and find there's nothing to challenge you with all the new things you've purchased.

    In the end, you realize that Star Trek Online is a casual game played "for fun". While it looks like a serious MMO, it's designed closer to a "smart phone app game". The goal is to get you in, dazzle you with possibilities, get your money, and then not really care what you do from there on.

    The concept of "for fun" over "for balance" has removed it from contention with other serious MMO's. Is it a bad game? No, and you might still enjoy it.

    But I stand by the recommendation: Don't spend real money for 6 months. You need to see the game for what it is after honeymoon wears off. If you still like it then, spend away.

    Standard Chinese Farming MMO Concept.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • gooddaytodie39gooddaytodie39 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    voxlagind wrote: »
    The first thing I tell new players is: Do not spend real money on STO for a minimum of six months. The Star Trek brand will lure you in, and as a beginner, the possibilities seem endless. You'll quickly realize you need to spend real money to catch up, greatly anticipating the end game. But then you'll get to the end, and find there's nothing to challenge you with all the new things you've purchased.

    In the end, you realize that Star Trek Online is a casual game played "for fun". While it looks like a serious MMO, it's designed closer to a "smart phone app game". The goal is to get you in, dazzle you with possibilities, get your money, and then not really care what you do from there on.

    The concept of "for fun" over "for balance" has removed it from contention with other serious MMO's. Is it a bad game? No, and you might still enjoy it.

    But I stand by the recommendation: Don't spend real money for 6 months. You need to see the game for what it is after honeymoon wears off. If you still like it then, spend away.

    Great advice. I would've saved a good amount of real money had I known...
  • vexashenvexashen Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    All I can say is that horizon has always been a class act to me and my fleet. You have been one of the best guys to fight along side or fight against. You would always give us a great fight but never be a @#$! about it. And I gota say I threw alot of theorycrafting at you sometimes and it always improved my builds or let me do something really really messed up like my spike galaxy lol. You Hope to see you in the queues again bud.
    The ORIGINAL SERIES VETERANS www.Tosfleet.com
    [SIGPIC]http://file3.guildlaunch.net/205090/DVhexishensig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
    Cruisers with mk x common in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q82PqoFFxjc
    Cruisers with good gear in infected elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMnFljZD9m8
    Soloing Infected Elite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaEFICFx4E8&feature=youtu.be
  • doffingcomradedoffingcomrade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    voxlagind wrote: »
    But I stand by the recommendation: Don't spend real money for 6 months. You need to see the game for what it is after honeymoon wears off. If you still like it then, spend away.
    Remember that you worked hard to get that money out of them. If you spend it, you're giving it back to them. Rule of Acquisition #1: Once you have their money, you never give it back.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • edited March 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • sunfranckssunfrancks Member Posts: 3,925 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    This game is casual so long as you only have one char, it is a grinding nightmare if you don't..
    me and many others refused to accept the galaxy R as it was, and thus the glorious galaxy reboot happened! we won, we didn't accept, we


    oh wait


    it was the most disappointing thing in the games history. never mind. **** it. i'll quit before i accept though.


    find superior treking experiences here http://www.moddb.com/mods/star-trek-armada-3

    i know i have lattly

    Ouch, that little MVAM video puts the STO version to shame! :eek:
    Fed: Eng Lib Borg (Five) Tac Andorian (Shen) Sci Alien/Klingon (Maelrock) KDF:Tac Romulan KDF (Sasha) Tac Klingon (K'dopis)
    Founder, member and former leader to Pride Of The Federation Fleet.
    What I feel after I hear about every decision made since Andre "Mobile Games Generalisimo" Emerson arrived...
    3oz8xC9gn8Fh4DK9Q4.gif





  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    its going to be a casual game.

    the changes have dictated it so. and we have fought with valor, have we not my friends? well, most of us have...and even for myself, ive had my moments of darkness.

    i think at this point, we can metagame all we want.....i have just come to the conclusion that for solid PvP, we are going to have to look elsewhere.

    and its a shame really...for us, the players...and for the developers of this game. i mean, we are all trekkies to some degree. and to see such epic possibilities for starship battles be brought to the status they are now....well.....


    i think back to kirk at the Mutara nebula. i remember sisko at ds9 and the sacrifice of angels. thoughts occur of picard and riker.....and the many, many times they were outmatched yet still found a way to overcome. I. remember. janeway. and the year of hell.

    this game is our nebula. we are outmatched, we have sacrificed, and we. have gone thru hell...in gaming.


    and for what?

    nothing.

    its a casual game, my trek brothers.

    and unfortunately, for myself....resistance to this game is futile.

    i love trek.

    i love gaming.

    i love our community.


    acceptance, my brothers. until the end.....


    have fun kill bad guys

    kirk and his ship was almost destroyed by khan and the miranda class ship which should of been classed as t2 instead of t1. it still got potential to be a t5 version the miranda class, better then that garbage scow connie. sisko and the dominion fleet, that wasnt a 1 on 1 that a just a warzone, typically warzones are unpredictable places so im not sure how that is applicable. the wargames simulation of the hathaway vs ent never happened because of the ferengi. the janeway and year of hell didnt happen even though it was shown, the end result it never happened, so you cant really pull that one into it for an example.

    i understand what you want, but this has been going on for years and a few of us "old timers" saw the writing on the walls as others were praising the devs for the best choice yet years ago.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    it was the most disappointing thing in the games history. never mind.

    Doesn't even crack the top 5 most disappointing things in STO history for me.

    The Pelia sector is STILL incomplete for crying out loud. The only PVP map introduced since Shantytown was the Shuttle map.

    Diplomacy implementation was bad. Exploration revamp never happened. Deltans are not a playable race. The Wambundu and a T5 Connie are not in the game. The Excelsior Bridge isn't in the game.

    The Galaxy R is playable at least. Maybe not as playable as some want, but it exists. And can be flown. The reboot didn't even faze me. Least Galaxy fans CAN fly their favorite ship.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • daan2006daan2006 Member Posts: 5,346 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    what is the Pelia sector is this some new found land?





    oh nvm its the one you go do about 3 mission in and never go back :D
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    swimwear off risa not fixed
    system Lord Baal is dead
    macronius wrote: »
    This! Their ability to outdo their own failures is quite impressive. If only this power could be harnessed for good.
  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    And yes, if this wasn't pseudo Star Trek...how many folks would still be here?

    I wouldn't be. Not because I think it's a bad game. I am one of the "casual" gamers in their target market, after all.

    But it would hold no interest for me in the same way that SWTOR doesn't hold any interest for me. I'm more of a Trek-geek than a Jedi-geek. If it wasn't Trek, I'd be less invested in it.

    Cryptic hasn't quite jumped the shark for me yet. And let's face it, unless you're a hard-core Trekkie/Trekker it doesn't take much to leave a thin veneer of Trek over just about any concept they'd like to do.

    But really? They're doing better than just a thin veneer. Whether anyone likes what they're doing or not, they are drawing their inspiration from actual Trek lore and I give them credit for it. The worst "offenses" to canon are the rainbow mix-and-match uniforms and the playable alien lockbox ships, and I forgave them for those a long time ago. Heck, I even embrace them to some degree.
    My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here
    Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    bluegeek wrote: »
    I wouldn't be. Not because I think it's a bad game. I am one of the "casual" gamers in their target market, after all.

    But it would hold no interest for me in the same way that SWTOR doesn't hold any interest for me. I'm more of a Trek-geek than a Jedi-geek. If it wasn't Trek, I'd be less invested in it.

    Cryptic hasn't quite jumped the shark for me yet. And let's face it, unless you're a hard-core Trekkie/Trekker it doesn't take much to leave a thin veneer of Trek over just about any concept they'd like to do.

    But really? They're doing better than just a thin veneer. Whether anyone likes what they're doing or not, they are drawing their inspiration from actual Trek lore and I give them credit for it. The worst "offenses" to canon are the rainbow mix-and-match uniforms and the playable alien lockbox ships, and I forgave them for those a long time ago. Heck, I even embrace them to some degree.

    I'm not a "Canon" guy - I'm a Trekkie. I tend to get in arguments with the Canon folks, so I tend to try to avoid the Canon folks...heh, I already ruffle enough feathers here and there with things trying to dance along that line that requires you guys getting involved or not. I can be moody.

    But in the end, Canon is just what happened - and it oft contradicts itself. Cause when we watched Star Trek, regardless of which series or movies we preferred, it was fictional. The writers did stuff to move the story along. Ships were invincible until they needed to blow up. Things blew up all the time until they needed not to blow up. We didn't watch it as a documentary on Discovery or the History Channel. It was fiction and subject to all the plot mechanics/holes that's rampant with entertainment.

    But again, in the end Canon is just what happened. It's not what could happen. It's just what happened. So unless STO went back and changed what happened, well - they can't violate Canon.

    They can, however, TRIBBLE all over the Trek aspect. Course, I'll admit that comes down in a sense to which series you liked the least or even hated. I severely disliked DS9, and unfortunately (imho) STO's most like DS9. Don't get me wrong, DS9 had some pretty nifty episodes; but the series as a whole failed me as a Trek fan. So then you get into STO and...yep, pretty much sitting around with our thumbs up our (er - heh, nevermind) until we go blow something up. That's pretty much what DS9 was. That's pretty much what STO is. It's not the trekking aspect of Trek that we had in TOS, TAS, TNG, VOY, and ENT. It was more a mix of Full House and the A-Team. Both fine shows in their own rights, but that's not Star Trek.

    Just like even DS9 had some pretty nifty episodes, imho, STO also has some nifty things from time to time...but I'm always left wanting more as a Trek fan. To be honest, they could pull everything Star Trek IP related from the game...and I'm not sure I'd notice. It's an extremely generic game - we could even move it from space to ground and...it's just so generic overall.

    Then there's the casual bit. I believe I explained it in another thread. Cryptic is constantly redefining casual, imo. I considered myself a casual player at one point, but Cryptic has continuously lowered the bar to the point where I no longer can say I'm a casual player by their standards. Thing is, I'm nowhere near a hardcore player. So what does that leave me as? And that's kind of frustrating...cause you get hit from both sides, the hardcores laughing at you for being a casual while the casuals moaning about you being hardcore - it's a serious wtf moment going on.

    Meh, oh well - Windows updates finished downloading - need to restart this ol' behemoth...
  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    its going to be a casual game.

    the changes have dictated it so. and we have fought with valor, have we not my friends? well, most of us have...and even for myself, ive had my moments of darkness.

    i think at this point, we can metagame all we want.....i have just come to the conclusion that for solid PvP, we are going to have to look elsewhere.

    and its a shame really...for us, the players...and for the developers of this game. i mean, we are all trekkies to some degree. and to see such epic possibilities for starship battles be brought to the status they are now....well.....


    i think back to kirk at the Mutara nebula. i remember sisko at ds9 and the sacrifice of angels. thoughts occur of picard and riker.....and the many, many times they were outmatched yet still found a way to overcome. I. remember. janeway. and the year of hell.

    this game is our nebula. we are outmatched, we have sacrificed, and we. have gone thru hell...in gaming.


    and for what?

    nothing.

    its a casual game, my trek brothers.

    and unfortunately, for myself....resistance to this game is futile.

    i love trek.

    i love gaming.

    i love our community.


    acceptance, my brothers. until the end.....


    have fun kill bad guys




    Do not go gently into that good night.

    rage, rage against the dying of the light.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    rinkster wrote: »
    Do not go gently into that good night.

    rage, rage against the dying of the light.

    Well, one can accept that it's going to be night eventually - or accept it and live accordingly...that's all this thread is, a thread about acceptance and how the rage tends to be moot.
  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,358 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Shaka, when the walls fell.

    Almost as tired of that quote as T5 Connie threads...
  • pulserazorpulserazor Member Posts: 590 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    With sails unfurled
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