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  • drkfrontiersdrkfrontiers Member Posts: 2,477 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    mancom wrote: »
    The situation has been resolved. It seems most likely that it was a corrupted download during the automated updating process.



    I have started adding some damage charts to the datamining page. It seems that Beam Arrays are the big thing these days and Disruptors and Phasers are the most popular energy types.

    I intend to keep the charts with daily values for a while and then eventually switch to weekly averages once I have enough data.

    Data in absolute values
    Data as percentages

    Thanks for this information. Very informative.
  • mancommancom Member Posts: 784 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The data indicates that essentially nobody uses Dual Cannons or Single Cannons. That's not really a surprise. But if two entire categories of weapons see significantly less usage than something like the cutting beam which is limited to one per ship, shouldn't Cryptic do something about it? Surely they have the same data and see the same effects.

    Do you think that the data will look vastly different in PVE?
    1042856
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited March 2014
    mancom wrote: »
    The data indicates that essentially nobody uses Dual Cannons or Single Cannons. That's not really a surprise. But if two entire categories of weapons see significantly less usage than something like the cutting beam which is limited to one per ship, shouldn't Cryptic do something about it? Surely they have the same data and see the same effects.

    Do you think that the data will look vastly different in PVE?

    Frankly, the only single cannon I ever see equipping in my ship is the Lobi store one that can fire up to 12Km away and that always damages as if it were 5km away.

    The problem with dual cannons and single cannons comes down to DPS. Since everyone has figured out they're the ugly ducklings in the group due to parsing, no one uses them. On the flip side, 360 arc reputation weapons are considered excellent and better than turrets which is why they're also used so much.

    The game has become a horrible DPS arms race where farming the most dil/EC quickly has become the norm. When it comes to PvP, DPS is still king, and as of today, science is in a bad spot. I'm hoping the sensor analysis change and some other changes hinted by bort brings science ships back up from the whole devs have buried them in from the team ability changes. I'm personally testing that one after it goes on Tribble because it can end up as more power creep for tacs using sci ships (The Vesta comes to mind), or an stealth nerf to the ability (removing the -"drain resistance" effect).

    The combat log shares some of the blame as it should show the contributions drains, abilites, and procs, do to the battle as a whole. Most of what people see in there and post in the in-game chat is combat damage. I'd love to post "Lucretia drains X power from shields using ...." or "Lucretia reduces X damage from Y", but the devs don't seem to have much extra time after adding more content.

    The devs do seem to be making an effort finally to slowly bring unused stuff back up to par with the rest, but it's a slow and painful road to recovery. My hope is that they tweak the AI for all species and give them some extra teeth. Example: I like the fact the Voth use Tyken's Rift, but frankly, it should be better specced so that the target (us) suffers a bit more if we don't have a HE to clear the drain away.
  • magniacapramagniacapra Member Posts: 544 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    How would you fix dual cannons?
  • mancommancom Member Posts: 784 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    More fancy charts:

    The following damage values are raw damage values against players only (e.g. no FAW against pets); I chose raw because for the first half of 2012 there is no shield damage in the log file.
    • Energy types - This list is heavily influenced by what build I was flying at the time.
    • Weapon Types - Players love the cutting beam
    • Weapon Abilities - FAW went away and came back, and BO and DEM have increased
    • Crit rates - first the embassy, then the Romulans

    These charts are based on my personal log files (19GB and counting), which means that the values are a bit distorted because a tenth of the total result is always my personal build and not a random selection.
    1042856
  • blahhdreyblahhdrey Member Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Fantastic, thank you! Very interesting information in these charts..
    dEpN3nB.png?1
  • rylanadionysisrylanadionysis Member Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I like how 2 piece borg is more powerful than every other hull heal in the entire game combined on that chart
    Gold.jpg
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  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited March 2014
    I like how 2 piece borg is more powerful than every other hull heal in the entire game combined on that chart

    I second that. That Borg two piece set overshadows every heal in the game. Heck, after seeing that graph, I'd throw some drain away from my build just for the hull heal.
  • skurfskurf Member Posts: 1,071 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    mancom wrote: »
    More fancy charts:

    The following damage values are raw damage values against players only (e.g. no FAW against pets); I chose raw because for the first half of 2012 there is no shield damage in the log file.
    • Energy types - This list is heavily influenced by what build I was flying at the time.
    • Weapon Types - Players love the cutting beam
    • Weapon Abilities - FAW went away and came back, and BO and DEM have increased
    • Crit rates - first the embassy, then the Romulans

    These charts are based on my personal log files (19GB and counting), which means that the values are a bit distorted because a tenth of the total result is always my personal build and not a random selection.
    Pretty charts^^ But if I'm reading them right, some of this stuff doesn't make sense. Torpedo Spread the most damaging ability? Is that cause it's people using transphasics that do hull damage that counts more? I ran that on my sci for a little while, but didn't think it was that popular or did that much damage overall. And then it has CSV above CRF? Is PvE included in these numbers by accident? What am I not getting here....?
  • skurfskurf Member Posts: 1,071 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    double post
  • mancommancom Member Posts: 784 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I like how 2 piece borg is more powerful than every other hull heal in the entire game combined on that chart
    For the total hull healing in the game one has to add the values in the two charts (self and cross healing) and it gets a little bit better and won't be above 50% anymore, but it is still the dominant heal. Also note that the effect of natural regeneration cannot be measured on the combat log.
    skurf wrote: »
    Pretty charts^^ But if I'm reading them right, some of this stuff doesn't make sense. {...] What am I not getting here....?
    It's a stacked chart, the graphs of the abilities are not overlapping each other. The damage from an abiility is only the stripe in its respective colour, not the entire region from the bottom to the ability's upper line.
    1042856
  • scurry5scurry5 Member Posts: 1,554 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Interesting set of charts.

    If you're okay with it, do you think you could have some normalized so that we can see just the proportions? It's a bit hard to see it from the current set.
  • nuwok1nuwok1 Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    mancom wrote: »
    More fancy charts:

    The following damage values are raw damage values against players only (e.g. no FAW against pets); I chose raw because for the first half of 2012 there is no shield damage in the log file.
    • Energy types - This list is heavily influenced by what build I was flying at the time.
    • Weapon Types - Players love the cutting beam
    • Weapon Abilities - FAW went away and came back, and BO and DEM have increased
    • Crit rates - first the embassy, then the Romulans

    These charts are based on my personal log files (19GB and counting), which means that the values are a bit distorted because a tenth of the total result is always my personal build and not a random selection.

    Beautiful! I'd love to see this incorporate log files from more players or even specific players. When the software uploads a match, I'm assuming it just uploads the match summary and not the whole log. I'd be willing to share my full logs if it could be automated and, of course, compressed before sending.

    Although, that might overwhelm whatever internet connection you may have. So, maybe that's a bad idea. Perhaps a more detailed summary which can be used to populate charts like that.
  • mancommancom Member Posts: 784 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    scurry5 wrote: »
    If you're okay with it, do you think you could have some normalized so that we can see just the proportions?
    There shall be more charts!

    Combined self- and crosshealing this time.
    Damage is again based on raw damage.
    • Energy Types (Raw) - raw favours kinetic
    • Weapon Types - again with the slight kinetic bias
    • Abilities - again the slight kinetic bias, but HY is dead, no matter how you turn it, only TS still has some activity
    1042856
  • mancommancom Member Posts: 784 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    nuwok1 wrote: »
    Beautiful! I'd love to see this incorporate log files from more players or even specific players.
    It would indeed be a bit complicatd to get old logs from others players in large numbers. But going forward, the leaderboard client collects this data and on http://hilbertguide.com/leaderboard/datamining.php you can watch the new data grow. I'm not collecting it on a per-player basis, only per-match values for all players combined.
    1042856
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I like how 2 piece borg is more powerful than every other hull heal in the entire game combined on that chart
    That finally explains why one of mancom's advice is to still rely on the Assimilated Set.

    And looking how often my Defiant without it died from the accumulation of unhealed hull damage despite constant shield recovery even just in PvE (Dyson Sphere when you go solo on a capture point, not regular mission PvE), I can see I must change back to it. :)
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • scurry5scurry5 Member Posts: 1,554 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    mancom wrote: »
    There shall be more charts!

    Combined self- and crosshealing this time.
    Damage is again based on raw damage.
    • Energy Types (Raw) - raw favours kinetic
    • Weapon Types - again with the slight kinetic bias
    • Abilities - again the slight kinetic bias, but HY is dead, no matter how you turn it, only TS still has some activity

    Thanks!

    It's kind of interesting to see how, on a proportionality basis, FAW is getting almost prevalent as back in 2012, but the amount of damage beams are doing isn't quite as bad.

    And yeah, it's pretty funny to see how crazy the Borg proc is. The T4 Romulan heal proc seems to give quite a lot too - must reflect how crazy crits are these days.
  • ilhanskilhansk Member Posts: 620 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    mancom wrote: »
    It would indeed be a bit complicatd to get old logs from others players in large numbers. But going forward, the leaderboard client collects this data and on http://hilbertguide.com/leaderboard/datamining.php you can watch the new data grow. I'm not collecting it on a per-player basis, only per-match values for all players combined.


    I've got a collection of files, ranging from 2012 to 2014.

    However it's not combatlog.log files, but act export files, exported with various plug-ins.

    And they only cover premade vs. premade matches or when well skilled pugmades were involved.
    Visit the Inner Circle YouTube Channel to watch some STO pew pew PVP action!

  • mancommancom Member Posts: 784 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The good old days really existed:

    I included some even older logs that I still had from 2011 and even one from 2010. In contrast to my logs from 12/2011 and later which simply recorded everything, these are only logs from premade matches. But even there you can see a significantly lower level of damage (from abilities) and a massively bigger impact of high yield torpedos.

    In other words, according to this chart things went horribly wrong with the release of season 5 (which had among other things the doff system and revamped STFs).
    1042856
  • edited March 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • p2wsucksp2wsucks Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    mancom wrote: »
    The good old days really existed:

    I included some even older logs that I still had from 2011 and even one from 2010. In contrast to my logs from 12/2011 and later which simply recorded everything, these are only logs from premade matches. But even there you can see a significantly lower level of damage (from abilities) and a massively bigger impact of high yield torpedos.

    In other words, according to this chart things went horribly wrong with the release of season 5 (which had among other things the doff system and revamped STFs).

    Let's be honest when they fixed the shield exploit bug cannons where shown to be very nasty. Tet glider added to the nastiness, but maco mitigated most of that once they reduced Tet glider's effectiveness in half. But, really it was the shield swapping bug fix that brought cannon builds back.

    But, there was also a lot of passives added that added to escort/raider defenses. So, they could survive much better despite the shield swap drop by removing incoming DPS and flying away from the counters.

    Then, Raiders had basically been neutered when the feds go their phaser spamming TB spamming pets on every ship type (phaser procs were much more nasty then). But, Fleet Battle Cruisers and Vet ships could more than handle them and came out shortly after they Feds got their own pet spam.

    Last Fleet shields came out and the only real cannon counter was KDF fleet weapons which were/are grossly OP vs other shield types.

    I don't think it's some much things went wrong as a lot of people were dependent on cheating. So, the Devs added defenses which only made the ships which could fit cannons even stronger vs non-cannon fielding ships. Then they just through in the towel w/Fleet Shields.

    Now they've added a TRIBBLE ton of Hull debuffs and bleed through b/c they over compensated on the shield strength. Most of those bring in $$.

    Personally, I'd like to go back the the Season 5 bug fixes before Doff/gear grind and Fleet TRIBBLE started.
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  • idiianidiian Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    after todays update, the client don´t work anymore. I´m recieving a message, that the programm can´t be started:

    INFO ZUR PLATTFORMVERSION
    Windows : 6.1.7601.65536 (Win32NT)
    Common Language Runtime : 4.0.30319.1
    System.Deployment.dll : 4.0.30319.1 (RTMRel.030319-0100)
    clr.dll : 4.0.30319.1 (RTMRel.030319-0100)
    dfdll.dll : 4.0.30319.1 (RTMRel.030319-0100)
    dfshim.dll : 4.0.31106.0 (Main.031106-0000)

    QUELLEN
    Bereitstellungs-URL : file:///C:/Users/********/AppData/Roaming/Microsoft/Windows/Start%20Menu/Programs/Hilbert@mancom/THG%20Leaderboard.appref-ms%7C
    Server : Apache/2.2.22
    Bereitstellungsanbieter-URL : http://hilbertguide.com/leaderboard/client/THGLeaderboard.application

    FEHLERZUSAMMENFASSUNG
    Es folgt eine Zusammenfassung der Fehler. Details zu diesen Fehlern werden später im Protokoll aufgelistet.
    * Die Aktivierung von C:\Users\********\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Hilbert@mancom\THG Leaderboard.appref-ms| führte zu einer Ausnahme. Folgende Fehlermeldungen wurden entdeckt:
    + Der Wert liegt außerhalb des erwarteten Bereichs.

    FEHLERZUSAMMENFASSUNG FÜR DIE SPEICHERTRANSAKTION DER KOMPONENTE
    Es wurde kein Transaktionsfehler festgestellt.

    WARNUNGEN
    Während dieses Vorgangs gab es keine Warnungen.

    FORTSCHRITTSSTATUS DES VORGANGS
    * [13.03.2014 22:36:16] : Die Aktivierung von C:\Users\*******\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Hilbert@mancom\THG Leaderboard.appref-ms| wurde gestartet.
    * [13.03.2014 22:36:16] : Erforderliche Überprüfung auf Updates wird so ausgeführt, wie dies durch die Bereitstellung angegeben ist.

    FEHLERDETAILS
    Folgende Fehler wurden bei diesem Vorgang entdeckt.
    * [13.03.2014 22:36:16] System.ArgumentException
    - Der Wert liegt außerhalb des erwarteten Bereichs.
    - Quelle: System.Deployment
    - Stapelüberwachung:
    bei System.Deployment.Application.NativeMethods.CorLaunchApplication(UInt32 hostType, String applicationFullName, Int32 manifestPathsCount, String[] manifestPaths, Int32 activationDataCount, String[] activationData, PROCESS_INFORMATION processInformation)
    bei System.Deployment.Application.ComponentStore.ActivateApplication(DefinitionAppId appId, String activationParameter, Boolean useActivationParameter)
    bei System.Deployment.Application.SubscriptionStore.ActivateApplication(DefinitionAppId appId, String activationParameter, Boolean useActivationParameter)
    bei System.Deployment.Application.ApplicationActivator.Activate(DefinitionAppId appId, AssemblyManifest appManifest, String activationParameter, Boolean useActivationParameter)
    bei System.Deployment.Application.ApplicationActivator.ProcessOrFollowShortcut(String shortcutFile, String& errorPageUrl, TempFile& deployFile)
    bei System.Deployment.Application.ApplicationActivator.PerformDeploymentActivation(Uri activationUri, Boolean isShortcut, String textualSubId, String deploymentProviderUrlFromExtension, BrowserSettings browserSettings, String& errorPageUrl)
    bei System.Deployment.Application.ApplicationActivator.ActivateDeploymentWorker(Object state)

    DETAILS ZUR SPEICHERTRANSAKTION DER KOMPONENTE
    Es sind keine Transaktionsinformationen verfügbar.
  • mancommancom Member Posts: 784 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    This appears to be the same issue that Rylana had. Uninstalling / reinstalling fixed it in that case.
    1042856
  • idiianidiian Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    yes, after deinstalling it seems to work now. I tried to Reinstall, without deinstall before. Thanks for your help!
  • mancommancom Member Posts: 784 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Mini, rejoice!

    The latest update will provide the top 3 hits for each match (only for newly uploaded matches, not retroactively for old ones).
    1042856
  • nandospcnandospc Member Posts: 1,260 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Ok, it's time to use your software, i'm curious. Idk why i always ignored it a little... boh :D
    I'll contact you ingame ASAP! :)
  • mancommancom Member Posts: 784 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I just realised that there is a slight problem with my current implementaton of the Top3 hits. It takes the top3 from all (source,target,ability) triples which means that if the same player hits the same other player with the same ability twice (or three times), only the highest hit can show up in the list.

    I'm not sure if that is a feature (i.e. "if you want all three spots, don't just fire your BO3 at the same weak target again and again") or a bug.
    1042856
  • realminirealmini Member Posts: 243 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    mancom wrote: »
    I just realised that there is a slight problem with my current implementaton of the Top3 hits. It takes the top3 from all (source,target,ability) triples which means that if the same player hits the same other player with the same ability twice (or three times), only the highest hit can show up in the list.

    I'm not sure if that is a feature (i.e. "if you want all three spots, don't just fire your BO3 at the same weak target again and again") or a bug.

    Awesome sauce! WOOT
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited April 2014
    mancom wrote: »
    I just realised that there is a slight problem with my current implementaton of the Top3 hits. It takes the top3 from all (source,target,ability) triples which means that if the same player hits the same other player with the same ability twice (or three times), only the highest hit can show up in the list.

    I'm not sure if that is a feature (i.e. "if you want all three spots, don't just fire your BO3 at the same weak target again and again") or a bug.

    How about more style points for using Tachyon Beam, Energy Siphon, and Tykens Rift?
  • nandospcnandospc Member Posts: 1,260 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    lucho80 wrote: »
    How about more style points for using Tachyon Beam, Energy Siphon, and Tykens Rift?
    A wider question: is there somewhere a list with things that add style and others that decrease it? Just to understand how the system works :)
    Thanks in advance!
This discussion has been closed.