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Atrox PVE siege build
cabezadetortuga
Member Posts: 251 Arc User
Hi everyone, I am going to share my build for my Atrox Carrier. I'm not really asking for a critique, because I am quite happy with it and it has been a lot of fun for me. I am considering making a few changes to the skill tree, but I am undecided as of yet on that.
I did not find a place on the skill planner to put my character's species, however. The character is a Joined Trill, which is relevant because it comes with some space traits that help out a little.
So here it is: Atrox Siege Build
I am sharing this build with the community so that others who might have fun with it may give it a try.
I also want to add that the bridge officer at the Lt Commander Science station has Tyken's Rift 3, and he can swap places with the bridge officer in the Commander Science station and basically swap Tyken's Rift 3 in the place of Gravity Well 3 without changing anything else.
My tactical, engineering, and commander science bridge officers are all efficient Saurians, while the Lt. Commander science station is manned by a human.
As a result, my unbuffed subsystem power levels are as follows: 125/100 weapon, 96/50 shield, 46/25 engines, and 75/25 auxiliary.
As far as space duty officers, I use a Maintenance engineer, a Development Lab Scientist, an Energy Weapons Officer (cannon ability cooldown reduction chance), a Deflector Officer, and a Gravimetric Scientist (aftershock Gravity Well or after shock Tyken's rift, depending on which power I am using). All of them are very rare (purple) quality. I find that by using the Maintenance Engineer and Development Lab Scientist, that sufficiently mitigates the cooldown conflict of having all three teams (science, engineering, & tactical). When I need a team, the right team seems to always be available to me. If I am fighting the Borg, I replace thte Deflector Officer with an anti-Borg Space Warfare Specialist.
If anyone wants to give it a try, please enjoy!
EDIT: I also wish to add that my Caitian Stalker Fighters are Very Rare (purple), but there was no option for the very rare version in the skill planner.
I did not find a place on the skill planner to put my character's species, however. The character is a Joined Trill, which is relevant because it comes with some space traits that help out a little.
So here it is: Atrox Siege Build
I am sharing this build with the community so that others who might have fun with it may give it a try.
I also want to add that the bridge officer at the Lt Commander Science station has Tyken's Rift 3, and he can swap places with the bridge officer in the Commander Science station and basically swap Tyken's Rift 3 in the place of Gravity Well 3 without changing anything else.
My tactical, engineering, and commander science bridge officers are all efficient Saurians, while the Lt. Commander science station is manned by a human.
As a result, my unbuffed subsystem power levels are as follows: 125/100 weapon, 96/50 shield, 46/25 engines, and 75/25 auxiliary.
As far as space duty officers, I use a Maintenance engineer, a Development Lab Scientist, an Energy Weapons Officer (cannon ability cooldown reduction chance), a Deflector Officer, and a Gravimetric Scientist (aftershock Gravity Well or after shock Tyken's rift, depending on which power I am using). All of them are very rare (purple) quality. I find that by using the Maintenance Engineer and Development Lab Scientist, that sufficiently mitigates the cooldown conflict of having all three teams (science, engineering, & tactical). When I need a team, the right team seems to always be available to me. If I am fighting the Borg, I replace thte Deflector Officer with an anti-Borg Space Warfare Specialist.
If anyone wants to give it a try, please enjoy!
EDIT: I also wish to add that my Caitian Stalker Fighters are Very Rare (purple), but there was no option for the very rare version in the skill planner.
Post edited by cabezadetortuga on
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Comments
It seems you're fine with the turn rate as I see few enhancements in that area, which is a bit of a surprise given the narrow arc of your forward weapons. Do the very rare fighters survive better than the rare?
Curious, why not add the Experimental Proton Weapon (EPW) in the front for the increased crit chance on your gravimetric photon torp? An EPW would also now benefit from your CRF with the three-piece set.
Turn rate in PVE is not a huge deal. The biggest problem I have there is new waves that always seem to appear behind players by design so I have to do a 180. Knowing it is coming, you save evasive to pull a rapid turn around as needed. I use dual banks on mine and its fine for pve. As sci ships, the occasional fast annoying ships can be GW if you can't keep up with them. For references, a voth swarmer spawn can either be ignored (my pets will kill them) or GW killed. An escort can be GW in place long enough to splatter it: npc ships cant get out of GW & escorts are soft. Problem solved. The one place I struggle is the breach STF, its just a lot of tight turns back to back, and escaping is not easy either.
My first thought is that your fore weapons can be used 10% of the time and you rely on your aft.
Especially that ... most missions have multiple targets which rush towards you, so maybe you would take out 1 of them with your fore guns and slowly chew on the others with the aft ones.
Any chance you can describe your strategy for moving and using your fore weapons ?
What you said about GW is quite interesting, but can you spawn them fast enough to deal with a dozen or more opponents like you see in most missions ?
Or you simply choose the missions / parts of missions where you don't have to move much and take the big targets, leaving the smaller ones to the other team members or dunno ?
Have you shortened the cooldown on evasive by much ? Curious about your DOFF setup aswell.
The reasons I'm asking is because I also like the atrox, and have considered getting it, but I am just worried it would make me waste time during missions and make me less effective.
Here's my strategy for maneuvering in the Atrox.
(1) Anticipate: Try to stay one step ahead of the enemies. It's not just about knowing where the enemy is currently, but also anticipating where the enemy is going to be. In PVE, one frequently has a pretty good idea of where the enemy will attack from before the enemy even comes out of warp. Point the Atrox towards where you think enemies will come from before they even appear. Once in combat, continue to stay a step ahead of your target. Keep your eye on your target and take into account its flight path so you can "lead" it. If a target is moving from left to right across your firing arc, then move with the target by turning your ship clockwise so that the target stays in the firing arc as long as possible. If a target is moving perpendicular to me, I often keep the Atrox's nose pointed at the space in front of my target because even with dual heavy cannons, you don't actually have to keep the cannons pointed directly at a target to keep it in the firing arc. If your target's aft section is on the outer edge of the dual heavy cannon's firing arc with its nose pointed towards the center of your firing arc, then you are successfully "leading" the target and you can blast away at it. NPCs seem to never engage reverse thrusters, so you can safely bet that they will continue to move towards the center of your firing arc while you are "leading" them.
(2) Reverse thrusters: The Atrox has taught me to truly appreciate reverse thrusters. Starships in STO turn faster while moving than they do when stopped. You can turn hard to port or starboard while using reverse thrusters in order to keep "leading" your target without closing the distance between you and it. With the Atrox's slow turn rate, moving forward while trying to "lead" a target is sometimes the wrong thing to do. If you close the distance beetween your Atrox and its target, then the usually more agile target has the opportunity to turn "in" towards and behind the Atrox, where the Atrox's forward weapons cannot reach it. This is precisely what NPC's are programmed to do, by the way. I hardly ever (never?) see NPC's turn away from me when I am firing on them. They pretty much always turn into me. Reverse thrusters are the key to turning an Atrox to keep a target in front of it without getting so close that the target simply does a quick little turn and gets behind the Atrox. If by some fluke the target NPC turns away from you in such a situation, then by all means hit forward thrusters and give it chase, because at that point it is basically flying away from you and staying directly in the path of your weapons. In my experience, though, NPCs just do not do that, however.
As for the the power drain from using reverse thrusters, that is easily negated. It takes some time for the power drain to even start, and all it takes to prevent it is briefly hitting the "E" key for a moment before quickly hitting the "Q" key and resuming reverse thrusters.
(3) Patience: While reverse thrusters are helpful in keeping a lock on targets, it is often not even necessary to move forward or in reverse to engage a target and destroy it. Frankly, I do most of my combat at "all stop". Most commonly, I fly into combat range of my target, stop, and pound away with all my weapons until the target is destroyed. Most targets do not require anything more complex than that. This is why my build has such a shield focus, with a field generator, a shield emitter amplifier, relatively high shield power, and solid shield heals (Emergency Power to Shields, Science Team, and Transfer Shield Strength 3). I need my Atrox to be able to take the aggro of an elite Tactical Cube and absorb its attacks at a dead stop while surviving long enough for the Tactical Cube to be destroyed or for the cooldown on Evasive Maneuvers to finish so I can reposition myself and recover. In a low or medium DPS group of players in which I take the aggro, I can pull up to the Tactical Cube at the beginning of Khitomer Vortex elite or the one at the end of The Conduit elite and asborb their attacks at a dead stop for the duration of the fight. I usually only have to hit Evasive Maneuvers if I entered the fight against the Tactical Cube with my healing abilities on cooldown due to healing another ship before entering the fight.
This brings up another point about patience. When healing oneself or others in space combat, it is important to avoid hitting all of your heals at once. It is a good idea to pace your heals so you almost always have something ready to recharge your shields. When your shields first start to get low, a Tactical Team 1 and Emergency Power to Shields 1 combined is usually enough to keep your shields up for at least 15 seconds, which is long enough for Science Team 1 to come off of the global cooldown. At that point, a Science Team 1 combined with a Transfer Shield Strength 3 at 130 auxiliary power will easily fill your shields right back up to full in almost any combat situation. By the time Tactical Team 1 comes off the global cooldown, you then have relatively full shields for Tactical Team 1 to redistribute while Hazard Emitters 2 cleans up any of the hull damage that has bled through the shields. My Engineering Team 2 comes into play later in the fight (or after), when the bleed through hull damage has been a bit more than Hazard Emitters 2 was able to repair and the target is either nearly or already dead. If I have to use Engineering Team 2 during a fight to repair heavy hull damage, then my backup shield heal combination is Emergency Power to Shields 1 + Transfer Shield Strength 3, which should have come off of their cooldowns by that point. The percentage damage reduction of those combined abilities works quite well, actually.
As for auxiliary power, that is another place where patience really is a virtue. A look at my skills and gear reveals that I have a decent EPS power conduit skill, which means that I can go from 75 to 130 auxiliary in under 7 seconds. With the Plasmonic Leech, however, I am usually going from 94 to 130 auxiliary power which takes only about 5 seconds. I therefore shift from weapons to auxiliary power and back as needed using my customized presets in the subsystem power levels tray. Hazard Emitters, Transfer Shield Strength, Gravity Well, and Tyken's Rift all work better at higher auxiliary power levels, so I try to time my use of those powers with optimal auxiliary power levels. If I have been taking a beating, then I wait until I reach 130 auxiliary power before hitting Transfer Shield Strength 3 or Hazard Emitters 2. If either of those abilities is already on cooldown, I wait until there are between 5 and 7 seconds left on the cooldown before switching my power preset to maximum auxiliary, meaning that by the time I am ready to use thos abilities I have 130 auxiliary power. I do the same thing with Gravity Well and Tyken's rift. I do understand that such power micromanagement is not for everyone. It suits me just fine, however.
(4)Crowd control: The Atrox is practically a full-blown science ship. The only thing it lacks as a science ship is Sensor Analysis. It has SEVEN science bridge officer abilities as well as subsystem targetting. Between Tractor Beam 1, Tractor Beam Repulsors 1, Disable Engines 1, and Gravity Well 3 (or Tyken's Rift 3), an Atrox should be able to reliably control an NPC target so that it stays in the firing arc of the Atrox's weapons until the target is destroyed. If played right, it should be able to control even a group of targets. With Gravity Well 3, you should be able to caues a chain reaction of warp core breaches that basically cleans the board. NPCs have a hard time getting out of my firing arc when I am using crowd control on them. When one of those Klingon escorts from a Fleet Alert gets in front of me and I target it, then it is not likely to get out of my firing arc. Furthermore, it is likely to explode in the middle of a whole clump of NPC ships. WORD OF CAUTION: Tractor Beam Repulsors should be your crowd control of last resort, because it can (A) annoy other players and because it can (B) turn a nice, orderly battle into utter chaos.
(5) The "R" key: Learn to use the "R" key to come to a full stop. Use the "R" key quickly followed by the "Q" key to engage reverse thrusters when you need to. Also, use the "R" key when coming out of full impulse. NEVER fire your weapons while moving at full speed at full impulse. Firing your weapons from full impulse is a recipe for frustration in an Atrox. Hitting the "R" key to come to a stop before firing my weapons has become in instinct for me, now.
Sorry for the long post. I just wanted to share some of my personal insights into flying the Atrox.
and if: "Do you realise that you are gimping yourself with the DC?"
It surely has a nice theme, and there is little to no room for a discussion about how you like to play your ship, since it is your personal choice...
But lets be honest here, it is a highly ineffective build, and i'm not even pointing yet at your nukara console that buffs beams, which you don't have.
one of the major critique points of this game IS that you can't fly any ship as you want and still be effective...that's what the high rate of customization brings with it.
You say it is ineffective, but 7k DPS from an Atrox in The Conduit elite while carrying full heals, debuffs, and crowd control is by no stretch "ineffective". Your claim of it being "ineffective" falls even more flat when the Atrox handles a side in Khitomer Vortex elite by itself, destroying probes, then destroying the cubes between the probe spawns, and then doing the same to a transformer while the rest of the team does the other side.
But that is all beside the point. As was said in the introduction, "I'm not really asking for a critique", so perhaps "reading" is something that is worth trying. This is not meant to be a comparison to the 50k Scimitars or other all-out DPS builds because it, quite frankly, is not a DPS build. It is, first and foremost, a support ship. That is why I called it a "siege" ship. Sieges are all about logistics, not firepower. It is a build for someone that wants to be effective while flying an Atrox in an elite STF. It is a build for someone that wants to heal, crowd control, and debuff while doing moderate DPS in an elite STF. Thus, your attempts to flame here are really off-topic. Your opinion was neither asked for or appreciated.
Furthermore, your comment on the Nukara Particle Converter is quite puzzling, since (A) the ship has the Hyper-refracting Tetryon Beam Bank, which I am under the impression is, as a matter of fact, a beam array, and (B) the Nukara Particle Converter is not present on this build for its 10% accuracy to beam weapons, and is instead present for the 7.6% boost to Tetryon damage and the +15.2 to Flow Capacitors that comes from having two pieces of the Nukara Appropriated Munitions set as well as the +17.3 to Particle Generators that the console itself provides. The 10% bonus to beam accuracy and the +5 to shield power is actually an afterthought. Beneficial in their own small ways, yes, but those bonuses are by no means the purpose of having the console on this build. Perhaps "paying attention" is also worth attempting.
I have not seen another Atrox do what my Atrox does. Are there other Atrox builds that work just as well or even better? I am sure that there are, but that is not my point. Considering my experience in STFs with this build, I find your interpretation of "highly ineffective" to be highly dubious and even laughably exagerated beyond the point of credibility. Then again, my interpretation of effectiveness is not a comparative measurement of electronic anatomy. I could try to humor you, however. Maybe you can post your idea of an Atrox build and then we can head to Khitomer Vortex to try yours and mine out. You take one side in your Atrox, by yourself, and I will take the other, by myself. If you make more progress than me before the mission is completed or failed, then congratulations, you win a contest that I never really cared about winning in the first place. You can then bask in pride. If you lose however...then I guess you can feel however you want to feel about it.
My turn rate base is 5.5. In motion with my spec and whatever, its really about 10 or 12, I forget the current value as I have changed gear a little a few times. Most of the bonus is from spec, not gear, at most there may be 1 turn item installed.
Actually my experience is that most missions spawn clusters of enemy (in a 5 -7k or so radius?) If you do not floorboard your ship to close with them, but instead slip into reverse, you can keep the bulk of most encounters in front of you long enough to kill them. 90 degree arc is pretty wide at a distance, you lose a little dps from being far away but you have *enough* at 7 or so range.
I only have a GW1 (solo mode) and its on whatever cooldown that has. Mine is high gravity (grav gen items) & purple spawn more wells guy and a deflector cooldown guy. The cat carrier has room for at least 2 GW, a 3 and a 1, if not a third which is probably too many. 2 seems 'right'.
Honestly my strat for PVE is to move either in reverse or 1 click forward depending on the enemy position, get some of them in front of me, splat, turn & repeat for anything left. Very careful use of evasive (and a cooldown officer for that too is handy!!) lets me handle pesty fast ships. Also an advantage, my frigates can kill one ship outright anyway, if one does manage to get close and out of my guns.
I dont deny there are times that I am stuck turning for a bit. Its the nature of a carrier, and one of the few disadvantages to the platform. If your goal is speed runs and it frustrates you to be turning to face a new group for a few seconds (but not in combat yet), it may not be for you --- there is no way around *that* happening sometimes. But in combat, if you can keep 5k away from the center of the radius of the group you are fighting, you can be an unstoppable juggernaut.
Now, we can play what-if. What if we face 5 escorts that warped onto our backside at 3 km distance and mr evasive moves thing is on cooldown? AH! I have photonic fleet and pets! It may take ME a moment to extract my ship from the attack and handle this (again, rare) situation. But I will get there, and when I do, they will die. Typically I drop photonic and then haul out of there at max speed with defenses running to keep me alive. The npcs will stop to play with my pets, I will turn around and when I get back they will be sorry. Some of the worst things are missions like the last one in the save DS9 series where after the space walk you face an entire fleet that is dropped on top of you. All I can say there is pop evasive and run, then come back and fight on YOUR terms. Carriers can't turn well enough to handle that type of attack formation being dropped around them. As I recall, there are maybe 5 missions like this.
In groups its far less of a problem, the few that get by you someone else can shoot, and everyone & their brother carry a GW. Much of what I do is in a group and FAW the GW pile is a winner!
Finally, I am (as I said) not in the cat carrier. It may not work for you as well. I have better pets, and a universal commander. Solo, I can slot a full bore tac officer, grouped I can have the double sci officer layout. I have overload 3 when I want it, for example, not sure you can get that, but it is mighty useful against something that ventures too close. I have tac team and FAW. I have APO3 which can help turn as well. You will have to see if *some* of these ideas work for you, and adapt around them. They may not all be appropriate to your ship.
Then why make the post in the first place? Putting this up for all to see opened your build up for opinion and debate, that's why it's called a forum. If someone looks at a terrible build and says so, you can't blame them. Then you get all defensive when someone critiques your build, lol.
I mean really, three team abilities? DHCs on a whale of a ship? Wall of text explaining how awesome you are at piloting when NPCs take the same path every time?
This post is a prime example of how one could truly take any build into PvE and win.
Just, lol.
Ok, then. You say it is terrible, so post your Atrox build, then let's take it into Khitomer Vortex elite with mine. I'll do one side by myself and you do the other by yourself, and see who makes more progress before the mission either completes or fails. Oh, and you have to do it without exploding, too.
Oh, and I write in a lengthy style because I believe that intelligent people can read.
I tire of people saying "Derp, it be da sux0rs", but then failing to put up their own Atrox build to compare to.
However, if you'd like, I'd gladly do a 1v1 PvP match. Or you could invite any toon of your choice to an STF run of your choice, and I'll bring the parser.
I'll be in game for the next few hours, just hit up @fatman592.
It is utterly useless to compare one totally different type of ship to another when the topic that I posted is an Atrox build.
Furthermore, it clearly states in the title that it is a PVE build, so PVP is completely irrelevant.
Only my main has a PvP build, the rest are PvE exclusively, but that doesn't mean I won't take them into a match against your build. None of those builds even have anything over XI purple quality gear, and your build is loaded with rep gear, so I should be at a disadvantage.
I wasn't trying to compare apples and oranges, I was just wanting to see what your ship could do for myself. Mostly because I think your 7k dps claim is highly dubious at best. That's why I said I'd bring the parser.
I'm happy you found something you like. Next time don't post it to a forum, rage about critical responses or present a challenge no one can take you up on (because very few people have an Atrox as it is a plainly deficient ship).
But whatever, I knew you were just out to stroke your ego with this post. The challenge will remain available to you though I know you'll never take it.
Until you finally decide to put your money where your mouth is, my challenge to compare your ideas of what to do with an Atrox to my own stands.
As for parsing, I was parsed by JK from the DOFFJOBS channel. I suppose you can ask him about it.
Lol no, not going to buy a terrible ship just watch you fail.
I guess not owning a particular ship invalidates all one's knowledge and experience of game mechanics.
Flawless logic.
Okay, I concede, you win bro.
Sorry for the late reply to your questions. I got distracted by random uncalled-for attacks.
As far as the rare and very rare Caitian stalker fighters, the difference seems minimal to me.
It's funny that you ask about the Experimental Proton Weapon. I actually do have an alternate weapon setup in which I have used that weapon on my Atrox. I use it with an Anti-proton setup that uses the Experimental Proton Weapon, fleet antiproton dual heavy cannons, and the gravimetric photon torpedo launcher on front and then the Omni-directional beam array, Omega Cutting beam, and a fleet antiproton turret in the aft slots. Of course with this setup, i replace the Nukara Particle Converter with either a fleet particle generator, flow capacitor, or shield emitter console, since with antiproton I do not have the Hyper-refracting tetryon beam array nor do I need the 7.6% bonus to tetryon damage any longer. This antiproton setup does allow me to continue using subsystem targetting with the Omni-Directional antiproton beam array.
I will just describe the turn rate as...molasses. That's ok, I have learned to handle it well despite the slow turn rate. In an earlier post I described in great detail my tactics for dealing with the slow turn rate. I took a lot of flak from some people for it, although I do not know why, since those people did not elaborate on their precise objections nor did they offer alternative solutions. I think it best to simply disregard their objections as a guttural reaction to my heretical ideas. Some people just do not like any challenge to conventional wisdom, even if it actually works.
I am happy to answer your question about Gravity Well and its cooldown. In the Borg missions, the standard Gravity Well cooldown works just fine with no modifications or reductions. In Khitomer Vortex, the probe spawns coincide quite closely with the standard cooldown on Gravity Well. I can approach the first probe spawn, kill it with weapons fire and a Gravity Well, turn to and destroy the small Nanite Generators that spawn the Cube when two of them are destroyed, and engage the resulting Cube. By the time the next probe spawn appears, my Gravity Well only has a few seconds on its cooldown, by which time I turn my attention to probes, lay a Gravity Well out, and destroy them. Once the probes are destroyed, I can return my attention to the Cube and help finish it off. This is how it works if I have at least one other player on my side with me.
If I am by myself, I am a little more careful. I destroy the first probe spawn followed by the first Nanite Generator. I then damage the second Nanite Generator substantially but leave it at 10% or less hitpoints. I then wait for the second spawn of probes and I destroy them with Gravity Well and weapons fire. Once the second spawn of probes is destroyed, I immediately turn my attention to the Nanite Generator that I have already damaged and quickly finish it off, thereby spawning the Cube. I destroy the Cube as quickly as I can and then turn to destroy the third probe spawn with yet another Gravity Well and standard weapons fire. If the Cube does not die as quickly as I like, then I spawn a photonic fleet and destroy the third probe spawn while the Cube fires at me. I typically use my scattering field and/or Science Fleet to protect myself while I do this. This is usually not necessary, as normally I can destroy the Cube before or shortly after the third probe spawns enters my combat range.
In The Conduit, Gravity well is only essential if for some reason there is a threat that the Nanite Spheres will reach the Transformer. I have to make a judgement call each time that I run it. If the group has timed its strategy well and the Nanite Generators have been destroyed in unison, then I lay my Gravity Well down right on the Transformer itself and throw everything I have at it, destroying it long before the Nanite Spheres have reached it. If the group has not done so well at timing its strategy, then I reserve my Gravity Well for preventing the Nanite Spheres from reaching the Transformer. Just earlier today, as a matter of fact, someone in that mission popped a Nanite Generator while the Cube was still at over 50% health, so I quickly hit Evasive Maneueves and intercepted the Nanite Spheres near the Transwarp Gate. No only was I able to hold the Nanite Spheres off this way, but I was also able to destroy the first two Nanite Spheres and engage the third Nanite Sphere with a Tractor Beam before the Transformer finally went down. I was actually a little nervous about this, because not only was I dangerously close to the gate, but also the Tactical Cube spawned almost literally on top of me once the Transformer went down (we were on the second transformer when this happened). My Atrox basically saved the optional on that mission.
For the non-Borg missions, I replace my anti-borg Space Warfare Specialist with a Deflector Officer that has a 25% chance to reduce the cooldown on Gravity Well, Tyken's Rift, and Energy Siphon. If for some reason I feel that is not enough cooldown reduction for Gravity Well, I can also replace the aftershock Gravimetric Scientist with one that has a chance to reduce the cooldown on spatial anomalies by 10 seconds. Usually, however, I stick with the aftershock Gravimetric Scientist and the standard Deflector Officer. I have not had any difficulty in Fleet Alerts or Starbase Fleet Defense.
To answer your next question, I run the standard list of PVE missions from the PVE queue: Azure Nebula Rescue, the Borg STFs, the Fleet missions, Gorn Minefield (if anyone is actually playing it...I often get tired of waiting on the queue and find something else to do instead of Gorn Minefield), etc. The one mission in which the Atrox has been noticeably more challenging to fly is The Breach. It's not the combat itself that is the problem. The problem is escaping after the core is destroyed. The last time that I ran it, for example, I made a wrong turn and wound up at a dead end :mad: It is kind of hard to double back and correct a mistake if you go the wrong way in an Atrox.
I encourage anyone to give the Atrox a try. Despite the misinformed criticisms leveled by some people, she is a fine vessel. Even if you do not select the Atrox, I encourage you to pick any of the carriers that are available to you, because learning to fly a carrier is really good flight training. If you can make a carrier "float like a butterfly and sting like a bee", then you can take any ship in the game and fly it like a champ.
Indeed, the pets are unruly. If you put the probes on "recall" just as the first Naniite Generator is destroyed, however, they will take a few pot shots at the second Nanite Generator but then return to the carrier. Then I use my ship's weapons to damage the second Nanite Generator until it reaches 10% health or the second probe spawn appears, at which point I change target to the probes and put my pets on attack.
Sometimes they do get stuck and refuse to recall. If this happens and your pets destroy the second Nanite Generator, thereby spawning the Cube, then you still have room to maneuver and move towards the second probe spawn, destroying it while the prematurely spawned Cube makes its way towards you. Cubes are not terribly fast, so you can outmaneuver them easily even in a carrier.
Another thing that you can do is spawn the Cube without aggroing it. If you destroy the second Nanite Generator from the outer limits of your combat range (and with your pets docked), say 9.7 KM, you can quickly back away out of combat range using Evasive Maneuvers and diverting power to you engines. If you do this right, the Cube warps in and just sits there without aggroing to anyone or anything. At that point, you have all the time in the world to destroy the second probe spawn and can return to take the Cube at your leisure. This can be tricky, however. If any pets are in the vicinity of the Cube, then it will aggro to you and move towards you. This is why I dock my pets if I want to do this.
It's plainly inconsistent to talk to this guy about anything. You should be flaming this person too! To be consistent here's how the past two posts should have gone:
This guy clearly owns the Recluse, which I own. So, can I talk about carriers, without getting flamed, in your thread now?
I was not talking about a 10% rule. Maybe you should try reading what I wrote again. First of all, I was talking about doing a side in Khitomer Vortex by oneself. The old "10% rule" was in regard to The Conduit, which is an entirely different mission. What we were talking about has clearly gone over your head.
All I was talking about in regards to 10% was that I take the second Nanite Generator that supports a Transformer down to 10% so I can destroy the second probe spawn without a Cube hassling me, and then I destroy the Nanite Generator so I can destroy the resulting Cube before the third probe spawn arrives.
Exactly the fact that a single cube is a concern at all pretty much means you've been left behind by the power creep.
No one said that a single Cube is a concern. I can and have taken out the probes with Cubes firing at my backside. The question you should be asking yourself is, why would you want to? Why would you destroy the probes while a Cube is firing at you when you can instead control the Cube spawn and destroy it between the probe spawns? Controlling the Cube spawn so that you do not have to deal with both the probes and the Cube at the same time is just the sensible thing to do. Why would you take a course of action that increases the amount of damage that you take when you just don't have to?
My reference to the Nanite Generators and what order to take them down in was just a method for controlling the Cube spawn so that you can destroy it between probe spawns. No one is demanding that you do it that way. No one, and certainly not me, is trying to make a "rule" as you say. That is just my preference for how I get a side started by myself in a PUG. If you want to spawn the Cubes while probes are arriving through the gate, then go ahead, have fun with that. I personally do not see the benefit in having a Cube free to fire at the back of my ship while I deal with the probes. I suppose that it is nothing more than a personal preference. I do have a personal preference for not taking extra and unnecessary hostile fire when I can instead control the flow of combat and minimize incoming fire.
As for the "power creep" part of your comment, most players participating in PUGS cannot handle a side in Khitomer Vortex elite by themselves. I consistently see the names of players on the other gate go gray as their ships explode around the spawning Cubes, and they aren't even by themselves. I have been in countless PUGs in which the 3 or 4 players on the other gate are killed repeatedly by one of the Cubes over there.
Yes, this exactly.
I'm sure you can do probe duty fairly well with your build, but solo a side of Khitomer Vortex Elite within the time allotted? Saying that it's highly unlikely would be generous.
You misunderstood me, but that is perhaps my fault. I said "handle" as well as "doing" a side by oneself, not "solo" the entire side including the gate. My expectation is that people apply some common sense in understanding what people write about so that every single detail does not have to be spelled out with precision. Now that you bring it up, though, I suppose I should clarify what I mean by "handle" and "doing" a side by oneself. Of course this Atrox build cannot "solo" an entire side, including the gate, by itself within the time frame allotted for optional objective success.
What I meant by "handle" and "doing" a side by itself was that this Atrox can do probe duty and do enough progress on one side by itself to allow the rest of the team to complete the other side and then swoop in to finish the side that the Atrox is on within the time frame allotted for optional success. In clearer terms, this means taking out both Cubes and one of the transformers. I will quote what I said earlier.
I draw your attention to the indefinite article "a". I took the liberty of putting it in bold type as well as underlining it for your benefit. What do you suppose that means? Does that mean more than one transformer? Or does it just mean one transformer? In the English language, the indefinite article "a" is used to denote a singular noun to which it is linked. In this case, the singular noun is "transformer".
Now, given the mechanics of Khitomer Vortex, it is impossible to destroy a Gate without first destroying both transformers that support it. Because of this, I thought that what I meant would have been abundantly clear based on how I wrote it. I now see that this was an incorrect assumption and that clarification is necessary to fully communicate my meaning.
This Atrox can destroy all probes, six Nanite Generators, two Cubes, and one Transformer around one of the Gates by itself with enough time left on the optional timer to allow the rest of the team to come in and finish the mission within the time allotted for optional success. I believe that my personal best was completing these tasks with just over two and a half minutes left on the optional timer. To add one more detail, I am also talking about completing these tasks without exploding, since I really don't like blowing up if I can help it.
It is my personal opinion that any ship that can do this is viable and effective in elite STFs. I also believe that most people would agree with me on this. Furthermore, I also believe that the other person who previously called my Atrox build "highly ineffective" was either way off base or engaging exaggerate hyperbole. Granted, you did not call the build "highly ineffective", but you said some other things which imply a similar meaning.
So unless your definition of a "viable" or "effective" ship means being able to do an entire side, including the Gate, in elite Khitomer Vortex by itself within the time allotted for the optional objective, then you must at least concede that my build is both "viable" and "effective".
If, however, your definition of a "viable" or "effective" ship does means being able to do an entire side, including the gate, in elite Khitomer Vortex by itself within the time allotted for the optional objective, then I do not know what else to say to you other than that you are wildly out of touch with STO's player base.
If you think that my build is "gimp", as you said in an earlier post, then I do wonder what you think about the bulk of other players out there. I often get compliments from people after running Khitomer Vortex elite, The Conduit elite, Azure Nebula Rescue, and Fleet Alerts. In fact, it was a compliment from another player and his inquiry about my build that prompted me to post the build here on the forums. I thought that I was being helpful. Now, however, I regret doing so because as a result I have had to interact with some rude and unpleasant people.
I apologize for not remember the letter 'a' from a post from days ago. I really hope you feel better posting that wall of text just to insult my intelligence.
I'm happy you regret your post. If you never intended to field critiques, you should have never come to the forums. You're clearly intelligent, I respect that, but next time you think about posting please look up the word forum. I think it may give you some much needed perspective.
Granted, I am trolling you a bit. But my original critiques relating to your build are valid, as my advice would improve your build. If you're not willing to be educated, why should anyone care when you try to educate us?
Edit: In the spirit of educating, here is the kind of Atrox build I would shoot for. The build would be super tanky with plenty of dps and pure focus on crowd control. There would be a lot to invest in, but I think it would be well worth it. But if you just respec'ed your skills, reputation and retrained your boffs I think you'd see an immediate increase in performance.
As I have, and always shall say. "It's my build, if you want to change it, then by all means... Go **** yourself."
I take people's advice into consideration, when it comes to people bickering about how I can increase dmg (on my TSABC tank for example) I sit back and eat food while ignoring them :P