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LVL 50 and I suck at PVP - Need advice.
hudsondinobot
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Okay... quick rundown on where I'm at. I just took my Romulan Engineer to 50. I have a Klingon tac 50 and a Fed engineer 31.
I have LOVED this game. I was paying for SWTOR and then I logged into this game as a FTP guy and have really, really enjoyed playing. Recently I've been debating spending some some money for a really nice C-store ship or 2.
Which brings me to my questions.
I really blow at PVP. I logged into my first PVP match yesterday. Capture and Hold, I believe. I'm flying a Ha'feh Assault with a "meh" loadout. (2 dual cannons, quantum torp, fore and aft beam Arrays and 2 turrets. All Disruptor and with Disrupter tac consoles.). I have specced for survivability with HE, ET, EPTS and so on. I have a CAPx2 covariant purple shield. Geared towards max shield potential with my skills to recharge it. I flew my ship into the fray and...
I was vaporized. Took less than 5 seconds from full shields to gone. In a crowd with teammates. I even hit Miracle worker.
Undaunted... I respawned and flew back in....
I was vaporized. Took less than 5 seconds from full shields to gone. In a crowd with teammates. I even hit EVERY SINGLE SKILL OR POWER THAT THE GAME WOULD ALLOW ME TO CLICK!!! EPTS, HE, quantum slipstream.... anything and everything with an icon.
On my third try... I stayed away from the group. I cloaked up on a lone fed cruiser out by a capture point. I crept up behind him... uncloaked and alpha'd him... hit Attack Pattern Omega, Rapid fire 3, cycled over to Rapid fire 1 when the time came... then the Singularity weapons boost.... and I never fired my torp spread, because I never took his shields out of the yellow. Never even saw a red shield facing. I beat on him for probably 90 seconds and did absolutely nothing. Eventually 4 of his teammates wandered over and... well.... I was vaporized. Took less than 5 seconds from full shields to gone.
So... here's where I need advice. I'm not anywhere near survivable. Not even close. I also can't seem to do any discernible damage. I'm level 50, I really want to keep playing this game.
What am I missing to be competitive in pvp? Is it all ships and gear? While I KNOW there are many pilots who are considerably better than me, I feel like I'm a decent pilot and have some idea of how to maneuver and set up power rotations. I even have a crew of Romulan Operatives and my weapons are CRH and CRD varieties. I'm not a newb by any means. So... is it all ships and gear on the pvp landscape? Do I need to plan on dropping 2500 zen on a ship with a huge hull value? Do I need to join a fleet and grind for the XII gear? Is that the only way I will be able to succeed in PVP?
Alternatively... what else do I do at level 50? I know that's a question that's been asked before, but I'm unsatisfied with some of the answers I've seen. Mostly I've read... join a fleet and grind STFs. But, I've never been a raid player in any of my MMOs. I have odd playing hours and tend to wander around and explore (which really annoys hardcore raiders).
To wrap up this extremely long post... I'll be succinct. I have multiple captains at 50. I really suck at pvp. How do I get better? Alternately... what else is there to do?
I have LOVED this game. I was paying for SWTOR and then I logged into this game as a FTP guy and have really, really enjoyed playing. Recently I've been debating spending some some money for a really nice C-store ship or 2.
Which brings me to my questions.
I really blow at PVP. I logged into my first PVP match yesterday. Capture and Hold, I believe. I'm flying a Ha'feh Assault with a "meh" loadout. (2 dual cannons, quantum torp, fore and aft beam Arrays and 2 turrets. All Disruptor and with Disrupter tac consoles.). I have specced for survivability with HE, ET, EPTS and so on. I have a CAPx2 covariant purple shield. Geared towards max shield potential with my skills to recharge it. I flew my ship into the fray and...
I was vaporized. Took less than 5 seconds from full shields to gone. In a crowd with teammates. I even hit Miracle worker.
Undaunted... I respawned and flew back in....
I was vaporized. Took less than 5 seconds from full shields to gone. In a crowd with teammates. I even hit EVERY SINGLE SKILL OR POWER THAT THE GAME WOULD ALLOW ME TO CLICK!!! EPTS, HE, quantum slipstream.... anything and everything with an icon.
On my third try... I stayed away from the group. I cloaked up on a lone fed cruiser out by a capture point. I crept up behind him... uncloaked and alpha'd him... hit Attack Pattern Omega, Rapid fire 3, cycled over to Rapid fire 1 when the time came... then the Singularity weapons boost.... and I never fired my torp spread, because I never took his shields out of the yellow. Never even saw a red shield facing. I beat on him for probably 90 seconds and did absolutely nothing. Eventually 4 of his teammates wandered over and... well.... I was vaporized. Took less than 5 seconds from full shields to gone.
So... here's where I need advice. I'm not anywhere near survivable. Not even close. I also can't seem to do any discernible damage. I'm level 50, I really want to keep playing this game.
What am I missing to be competitive in pvp? Is it all ships and gear? While I KNOW there are many pilots who are considerably better than me, I feel like I'm a decent pilot and have some idea of how to maneuver and set up power rotations. I even have a crew of Romulan Operatives and my weapons are CRH and CRD varieties. I'm not a newb by any means. So... is it all ships and gear on the pvp landscape? Do I need to plan on dropping 2500 zen on a ship with a huge hull value? Do I need to join a fleet and grind for the XII gear? Is that the only way I will be able to succeed in PVP?
Alternatively... what else do I do at level 50? I know that's a question that's been asked before, but I'm unsatisfied with some of the answers I've seen. Mostly I've read... join a fleet and grind STFs. But, I've never been a raid player in any of my MMOs. I have odd playing hours and tend to wander around and explore (which really annoys hardcore raiders).
To wrap up this extremely long post... I'll be succinct. I have multiple captains at 50. I really suck at pvp. How do I get better? Alternately... what else is there to do?
Post edited by hudsondinobot on
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So, in a nutshell, you are facing players with good defenses and you lack defense. You can't scratch them, and you won't last long against their firepower either.
What to do: you need to figure out how to build your ship and go acquire the gear for it.
Im in the same boat --- after months of work, my ship is feeling pretty powerful, so I tried pvp in my fleet --- and could not take anyone to yellow shields and lasted mere seconds. I kind of expected it, but I wanted to see if I had made much progress.
Another issue, some damage types are seen as more potent and people build defense against them, such as AP. AP builds that can one-shot any NPC in the game cant even dink many players.
Secondly, you have been fighting NPC's so far. To beat those you need a total different mind setting than to beat players. A ship that can finish ESTF's on its own will probably be in a PvP for 12 seconds before being vaporized.
Thirdly, reputation. You are going to need to finish all 4 reputations to get their bonusses. Everyone else in PvP has them too.
Fourth, gear. Flying in with anything that can be found on the exchange will most likely get you killed in a matter of seconds. You are going to need special Reputation gear, Fleet weapons and so on. Anything that doesn't take at least 3 days of grinding isn't gonna help you on PvP.
Fifth, PvP in this game is a joke. It isn't about skill. Its all about who has the most shiney gear. Only if you have 2 evenly-geared teams is when skill comes around the corner.
Sixth, you're gonna need coordination. Talk with your team, make a keybind to say to whom your team needs to focuss fire. Most PvP'ers can take 1 or 2 enemies at a time concerning taking damage. But a full team unleashing their cannons on a single player will, indeed, vaporize him. That is probably what happened to you.
Seventh, don't PUG. You'll most likely end up in the least balanced match possible. Only PvP with friends, fleet members and so on. They know what you can do, you know what they can't do.
I'm in this game for 2 years now. I don't PvP regularly. I simply don't feel the need to grind a huge amount of specialized gear in an unoriginal build. I prefer to make my own builds, experiment. They don't need to do 35k DPS, they need to give me fun playing in them. And that is what they do. Sadly, that forces me out of any non-organized PvP, and only in organized PvP with people I know and like.
So my advice, go to the PvP forums, ask what ship is best for a Romulan Engineer/Klingon Tactical, get that ship, then ask for the best PvP build, work towards that build, practice with people you know and maybe, maaaaybe you'll one day win in PvP.
Join the Deltas today!
Stop wasting your time would be my advice. You're trying to play "catch-up" in a system so broken the elites can barely keep up.
You can thank the elitests for this. If you really want to get into PVP, you need to find a friend who will help you and stay away from pug matches for a while. The learning curve is big.
I second this wholeheartedly... PVP is extremely difficult and screwed up in STO. You have to be the cream of the crop, the top 1% to be any good at it. People think Cryptic needs to do something to fix it but im not sure what one can do to fix it. However if you must PVP than ill tell you what your gonna need:
A good fleet - Preferable one that's on teamspeak, to PVP well, you want to make a premade team with people you know and can chat with during the match WITHOUT having to type. MY fleet does PVP from time to time and we have some very skilled ship builders who will happily assist you... So if you need a fleet send me an in game mail at Samuel@kronos1996 and I can hook you up with my fleet "Dark Horizon."
Fleet and Reputation Gear - Your gonna want tier 5 omega and grab the sets... MACO and ADAPTED MACO are generally the best but you can mix and match, personally I prefer the OMEGA 2-piece set with the MACO deflector for added defense. Fleet shields, engines and deflectors are overrated I would skip them... BUT you will want a full set of fleet weapons, ACCx2 DMGx2 flavor... NEVER use anything with less than ACCX2 in PVP. Also your gonna want a fleet warp core... preferable one that transfers Weapon power to another subsystem... I like the engine one but whatever you like... Make sure it is an ELITE warp core with [AMP] which gives you 10% bonus damage for keeping your subsystems above 75 power... For it to work effectively your gonna want plasmonic leach, which is terrible expensive on the exchange for non-Klingons... Klingons can get it off a relatively cheap C-Store ship.
Weapon type doesn't usually matter much because most procs are relatively useless they only have 2.5% chance of doing anything, BUT in PVP every little thing can matter... Stick to Disruptors, Antiproton (probable the best) and Phasers... The Elite phasers available from tier 5 FED fleets heals your shields while your shooting. So basically the more you **** them with your weapons the more your shields heal... Tetryon can be good if you spec into flow capacitors as I have... Unless your running a science drain build I would skip Polaron and Plasma weapons suck D*CK no matter how you use them. I won't explain too much but basically ALL of the most popular shields come from the OMEGA reputation and they come with a built in 20% resistance to plasma weaponry soo... And NO the embassy consoles will NOT negate this... the math is a tad complex so I won't go into it.
C-Store/ Lockbox/ Lobi ships - Yes your going to need a 10 consoles premium ship to be effective... Most STO content is SO easy that it really doesn't matter but like I said PVP is BRUTAL you have to be a min-maxer and squeeze every drop out of your build that you can. Most C-Store ships have an upgraded 10 console version in the fleet store... Once again you will need a good fleet to get these ships. If you are a FED aligned ROMMY it will be easy, if your a KDF aligned ROMMY it will be more difficult.
Skip gimmicky useless consoles - Stick to fleet neutroniums and spire weapon consoles, most universal consoles are useless the ONLY ones I would use are Subspace Jump... which lets you get out of tight situations... and Plasmonic leach... which gives you massive power boosts ALL the time while your shooting your enemies. Put skill points into Flow Capacitors and you will get even more power from it.
Use the SAME type of weapon and fill up ALL your tactical console slots with consoles to boost it - Generally speaking I wouldn't fly anything into PVP with less than 4 tactical consoles... but 3 is ok if your building a tank... In an escort use 3 or 4 Dual Heavy Cannons up front and 3 turrets in the back... I say 3 or 4 because you can use 3 with a Dual Beam Bank, combine this with a beam overload skill in your Bridge Officer tray and you will quickly **** your opponent's shields...
NO TORPEDOES!!!!! There is no bigger mistake you could make than taking torpedoes into PVP... They are barely useful in PVE. So skip the torpedoes and take a pure energy weapon build with you... You will perform much better.
Don't use many BOFF (Bridge Officer) abilities that have shared cooldowns... For example EVERYONE whol flies an escort in PVP will take TWO Tactical Team 1's in their ensign slots and rotate them so that your shields will automatically distribute themselves to wherever your ships is getting hit at... Obviously this makes your job easier because you have one less thing to worry about... Sometimes they also take engineering team as its the only large instant hull heal available... These powers have shared cooldowns which means you can't use them at the same time... This is ok BUt if you take science team too then our defeating yourself.
This is really just the tip of the iceberg... You may find this useful and I hope you do BUT you may also decide like me to ignore PVP because its just not really worth it. IF you would like to know more I would be happy to tell you just send me a email in-game using the username I gave you up at the top...
Happy Hunting!
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1. Teamwork is OP. It more than anything else matters in PvP.
2. Ask for help. Which this thing you are already doing, even so, might be good to ask in the PvP forum (though the thread might end up getting moved anyways).
For a start, OP, from what you have said you have pointed out a few tactical flaws in your games. A cloak is not the perfect way to rack up kills, it helps, but decloaking in range of more than 1 player - you are going to be focused on.
No matter how big your ship, no matter your gear, skills or anything else, if you are focus fired on, you are going to go "pop" in a few seconds. So pick your battles, do not let your battles pick you.
As for gear, I quite often take Mk XI blues into a fight, and do rather well. Because I do not rely upon my gear, skills or anything else other than teamwork (something PUG Fed groups have always sucked at and premades are awesome at).
When you were playing, was a team mate calling out targets, did you have and strategies or objectives? (like hold 1 point and work from there - rush all the points, random fights / distractions etc...)
Also, for the best advice, to into Kerrat. Lots of helpful friendly players in there, plus this Anti PvP crowd tends to avoid it, so you can talk without all the "Nerf PvPers" rubbish
^^^
Exactly that right there.
'lolPvP' is not even remotely balanced or even remotely entertaining unless you're flying the one uber-ship of the week and the one uber-build of the week.
Just give it up right now. It's not worth it.
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PvP is a lot of fun once you get sitiuated in it but it can be quite pricey/time consuming much like SWTOR is.
But don't listen to those saying PvP sucks, for they have bad experiences and more than likely didn't want to change up their builds and ships to be competitive.
This ^^
Go start a new thread away from those clueless to PvP
Based on your comments, I don't think my time and playstyle is going to lead me to ever being competitive in PVP.
A few of you keyed in on the idea that I've been tricked into thinking that PVP is the endgame. So... what is my endgame? I guess I'm confused on my level 50 options. What do non-pvp 50's do while logged in? In my MMO experience, it seems that at the end of the content, everyone is building for high end raids to get the gear to effectively PVP. If that's not a reasonable goal (for me... for others, sure.. but not for me) what is my goal? Please don't say entertainment... I DO find it entertaining, I just need a direction in which to focus my efforts, and a reason for the direction.
Sorry if that all makes me sound dumb. I'm really not. I promise. See, I even write good.
In ANY MMO with PVE, it is to do raids (or in this case, (E)STFs, get grind for gear, do events, etc.
Personally, I don't waste time with the PVP, unless I am just playing around with friends, because like others have said, it is gear focused, and expensive.
There are a lot of things to do in the game besides STFs. The rep system is something that is good to get to Tier 5. However, it doesn't need to be your whole focus in the game.
There is some exploring you can do, and there are even a lot of systems you can visit, just to look around. Risa is (in my opinion) the best looking planet in the game.
When it comes to missions, there are PVE that you can queue up for, and they will help give something to do while not grinding. In fact, unless it is a time restricted grind (like the anniversary grind), I don't grind them out.
I play the game, and spend time with friends in the game, talking, role playing, and doing dailies and even PVE/STFs. I am ADHD. If I focus on the grinds, I get bored really fast. If not for getting on my nephew's account to grind for him while he can't get online, I would have already stopped doing the anniversary grind.
So, you can do end-game content, without doing a grindest, and still finish up all of your rep system. You don't even need to be in a fleet, if you don't want.
I am in a fleet, but that was just my preference. However, our fleet welcomes nonfleet players as friends. We willingly help other players, and even role play with others even though they are not in our fleet, or another one.
There are other fleets out there that are the same. So, even if you don't want to join one, it can still be beneficial to find ones that are friendly, and you can do things fun with them.
If you would like to add me to your friends list, I am Tim@razar2380
I am on EST, and usually try to get on between 8pm-2:30am. But, I can change up my time a little, since I am disabled, and can't go anywhere.
Take care, have fun, and happy gaming.
Tim.
Thanks.
I hear what your saying and it rings of truth. But, I've rolled in a bunch of MMO's before STO and I know I'm not the player type to commit on the level that will be required. I play here and there and am just as interested in roaming and such as I'm interested in being incredibly competitive. I'm a skilled casual player.
I agree that with a hefty grind and a change to tactics, I might be able to be respectable. But I'll never put the time and money into the process that many others already have. So I'll be at a disadvantage throughout, and I won't be able to catch up to the elite. That won't be terribly enjoyable for me.
So, again... thanks for the comments. I'm sure it would be fun with the right commitment, but I've done this long enough to realize I'm not committed enough to this (or any game).
I'm glad to know that it isn't just me who struggles with pvp and also that there is a route than can be taken to get better. It's just not the route in which I want to invest my time.
As I stated, that is not the case.
If 5 people with Mk XI white gear all focus on 1 person with Mk XII purple gear / with maxed out rep and so on... they will still die.
I still run with newer players in PvP who use green gear, as long as you use the most powerful equipment we all have - your brain, it suddenly becomes real easy to "ROFL stomp" another player.
Then there is Ker'rat. An open PvPvE map for all builds and skill levels, it's a good place to go for some casual drop in/drop out PvP without ruining scores or letting teams down. I spend the majority of my endgame there since it can be very good fun.
Apart from that the only other endgame pretty much involves grinding.
Suffice to say after a few weeks it clicked I understood what I had to do with my individual build and now can hang with the big boys, in a premade and pugging it.
So my advice get on a PvP channel in game and just hit the queues, eventually you too will click and be wondering how you never understood it (the mechanics that is).
Do not listen to the anti-PvP crowd they don't get it that's why they are anti-PvP it stung them and they didn't like it ! Even the ones that say they CAN PvP but don't because of XYZ are full of it ! You have a role in PvP regardless of the DPS crowd saying you need DPS it is all that works they too talk rubbish ! It is a melting together of what works for you and you have to work at it a little it just does not land in your lap as many would have you believe.
I am F2P and never spent a buck on the game so NO you don't need to throw cash at it either !
issuu.com/drkfrontiers/docs/pvp-boot-camp-companion-guide-v1
issuu.com/drkfrontiers/docs/pvp-boot-camp-companion-guide-v2
As others said, you can find fleets that have casual pvp against each other, find some people that are a fair fight and play against them. You don't have to be the best, you can do it for fun. Trust me: there are a bunch of people that are at your level and who enjoy more casual pvp in private matches and whatnot.
As for what to do at 50 -- this isnt a raiding game. You either enjoy alts, replay missions and STFs and FEs, or you tinker on a fleet of ships, or whatever. Or you pvp at whatever level. Or some of all of it. You have to make your own fun out of the game, there is plenty to do but most of it boils down to tinkering on your builds and ships so you can either obliterate PVE content faster or with a goal towards some form of pvp.
This. Since I'm the first guy that clued into the fact you've been duped by the PvP community, I'll throw my endorsement at the above statement. You have to step back and consider what type of games you most enjoy playing.
Exploration/open world? Go for New Romulus, Defera, and the laughably broken, but still somewhat enjoyable exploration clusters.
Raiding? STFs. Get good at the trinity (Infected, Cure, Khitomer), then move on to Hive. Work the space first, then work the ground. Get good at both. (If you need help with these, message me: @eulif_davis or any of my fleet mates @scipher @srafa @mythrilius @jpwolf etc.) Honorable mention also goes to No-Win Scenario for the raiding-inclined player.
Tinkering? Start devising alternate combat methods. All torpedo build? Mine slayer? Hangar commander? Death by 1000 exotic particles? Pick something you want to become your new strong weapon and build a character and ship around it, then keep tweaking it until you have maximized its effectiveness. When it gets boring, work on something new.
If none of that sounds appealing, then maybe you should take a second look at PvP. Just don't let anyone convince you that all roads lead to and end at PvP. It's simply an option for getting entertainment out of the game, not the end-all, be-all of online gaming. :rolleyes:
The tuvok mission set is an excellent starter set, but its not gonna save his backside in pvp. That shield is not even as good as the blue panateric or whatever its called from the lowbie mission and both are noobiliy compared to adaptive fleet. The other items are pretty good *for some builds* but they are, surprisingly, sciencey in nature as they were sorta designed for the science ship they are selling. So most of that set is boosting aux power.... which may or may not fit a person's setup. Might help some players get aux up for amp, but all in all too much of the aux bonus is "at low power" which did not suit my sci captain with decent aux power.... doh.
To OP: If you want to compete, create a Romulan. Acquire the tactical Scimitar. Equip Borg Engines+ Deflector, along with a Fleet shield. Equip a Fleet Singularity core with AMP. Get 5x Vulnerability Locators with bonus AP damage, and get all your weapon slots filled with Advanced Fleet Antiprotons with [acc]x2 + [dam]x2. Get the three Aux2Bat technicians and marion. Get all space traits available to you. Finish all reps. Congrats, you just won PvP.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
If you're going to decloak in front of a group of humans - no shield in the game, no set bonus and no amount of ship tweaking will save your ship.
People accuse PvP of being one sided in favour of the older Vets - but PvE is one sided in favour of solo play, and a lot of people go in to PvP expecting to decloak and kill like you do in PvE and get frustrated when the "captain kirk" approach does not work.
You can win in PvP with lower level gear, if you play smart, and to your strengths.
I don't know. I have a Ha'feh and it last suprisingly well in PVP. This is my build http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/?build=romulanfedhafehfad_4634
For PVP, I go with a different set of weapons to for more damage and DPS. Still, completing all reps will help. My rep is focused on structural, healing, and weapons damage especially buffing tetryon and critical damage. In all, Ha'feh can survive in PVP and put up a fight against a scimitar but it really matters about working on every other aspect from skills, boffs, and doffs.
My boffs abilities are different. Just fyi.
So many times happened to me that i fly towards my enemy and i blow up without even notice what the hell hit me. I mean, the meaning of the game is to have fun trying to kill another pvp player, using your skills, but when you are pursuing a target, and suddenly he throws at you whatever torpedo or anything and you blow up just like that, in 2 seconds, i dont get it, and obviously that is not funny anymore, and it does nothing to do with gear or whatever. PVP in this game is completely broken or it is not intended to be pvp, and its not worthy at all. God, even a weak frigate will last more than 5 seconds without even shields at all.. pvp just doesnt make any sense.
Hopefully it will cut down on the anti-PvP responses, which are more or less off-topic and borderline trolling.
Hint.
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