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Easy cheap way to *fix* pvp
obeythenagus
Member Posts: 16 Arc User
Really simple way to make PvP more accessible to new people without some kind of nerfageddon,
which ofc no one wants.
Have 2 queues, one for premades 1 for pugs, only to not confuse call em like idk, "team Arena" and "open Arena"
This way people trying it for the first time wont run into an uber premade and get spawn screwed to hell, so will then play more and maybe later on join the Team PvP queue with some friends and then get the fun of some unholy nightmare of DPS , disables or shared shield extending joy.
But as they will have had more fun pugging in the open PvP queue, will more likely wish to work on their build, so more zen sales. Which means more money for cryptic to do more vital things like add lil fluffy kitten pets to the game,(smaller than Sehlats) fancy hats, (every MMO needs lots of hats) and get rid of that horrible eye burning nightmare that is the background on solar wind.
Just getting rid of the option to queue in a team like they tried with Age of Conan will not work,(but it might actually, but I prefer the idea of 2 queues) as people will leave and rejoin if not with their buddies. Having a team queue as well should discourage that. Ofc some people may still try to do that, but, some people. Hey. They clearly need lil fluffy kitten pets to cheer them up so they feel less malice towards the world.
which ofc no one wants.
Have 2 queues, one for premades 1 for pugs, only to not confuse call em like idk, "team Arena" and "open Arena"
This way people trying it for the first time wont run into an uber premade and get spawn screwed to hell, so will then play more and maybe later on join the Team PvP queue with some friends and then get the fun of some unholy nightmare of DPS , disables or shared shield extending joy.
But as they will have had more fun pugging in the open PvP queue, will more likely wish to work on their build, so more zen sales. Which means more money for cryptic to do more vital things like add lil fluffy kitten pets to the game,(smaller than Sehlats) fancy hats, (every MMO needs lots of hats) and get rid of that horrible eye burning nightmare that is the background on solar wind.
Just getting rid of the option to queue in a team like they tried with Age of Conan will not work,(but it might actually, but I prefer the idea of 2 queues) as people will leave and rejoin if not with their buddies. Having a team queue as well should discourage that. Ofc some people may still try to do that, but, some people. Hey. They clearly need lil fluffy kitten pets to cheer them up so they feel less malice towards the world.
Post edited by obeythenagus on
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Not that your suggestion may possibly have some merit, but it's already been discussed to death.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
If you are looking for team vs team play, its Arena. If you try to solo in a small team environment don't be surprised if you don't do well.
Am talking about bringing in new blood, which is something I often see people talk about on Opvp. And hell a lot of us prefer to pug due to the constraints of time / "get teamspeak or GTFO" ect ect. Hell sometimes a pug whups a premade. Its not about doing well or not.
Well, they did it in age of conan, And it was just one queue, not my suggestion for 2 queue`s. I dont think it would work here,(just 1 queue pug only) but it was done to prevent the uber synergy crowds stomping the hell out of everyone else, and you know something, there it kind of worked, more people started joining the queue`s, ofc would get a couple of teams that would leave / rejoin to get their premade on, but you know what, after a while they stopped doing that and just started playing the game. So hell, I contradict my statement saying it will not work, but for a while you will get the dont want a competition just want to roflstomp crowd messing games up by doing that
Only if they get me cake after spawn camping. Nice cake.
Some are like that, some are not. Been the fith man In scort squads I been pugstomped by. They come up against a wipe, they all leave. So yeah, some are like that. but some stick it out.
Thats a good idea, I can also see it leading to a lot of rage. If you have ever played a healer in a game you will know what I mean. Like coming up against the assumption that because your a sci your able to follow a tac into the middle of a spitting ball of death and somehow heal them from all that critness is not so uncommon. Also If its not like warcrafts semi lobby, Idk I can see it maybe leading to people being unable to get a game? idk.
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Not really. It's only requested by people who are new to pvp, or just don't know any better. Want a free for all? Capture and Hold is built just for you. Safe spawn zones, no real premades, lots of soloing. Perfect for beginners.
Arena is team based pvp. Period. If you want to solo there....well. Just be prepared. The game caters to the solo crown and the team based crowd. Why try to ruin one when you already have the other?
C&H?
Safe Spawn Zones?
No Pre-mades?
LOL, really???? What game are you playing?
I refuse to be content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
Thats just it. Even if just two of us (my circle of friends) runs together, it tends to pretty much crush the newer/less experienced players.
Even if I go alone, I still tend to outclass everyone but those that do it all the time. Its a no win situation really. Every time I hear about the "pug only" queue, I immediately think of the times ive queued solo and literally destroyed my entire opponent nearly single handedly.
What do we do then? A no shields queue? A no boff powers queue?
Why dont we just have a queue that says "you may only queue to sit still at your spawn point and be unable to fire"
Sorry to anyone if this sounds condescending, but six months ago I was one of those newbies that would be considered awful/bad/easy target/etc. I went through the process of bettering myself, getting a team, learning and growing. Hell I still learn and grow every match (when its competitive, dont learn a dang thing stomping people, but thats all there is half the time)
Id say people need to man up, I did.
I mean I still get annoyed at things, certain group setups, certain fleets, certain individuals, but christ im the guy that will get into a pugstomp match, take my damn shields off and at least TRY to give them a chance.
Nothing works it seems.
Why PvP if youre not going to give it your all, otherwise one might as well just go farm Starbase 24 or something.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
There are lots of guns protecting CnH spawns. That some people can circumvent it is irrelevant as there are NONE in arena. And while yes, there may be a few "premades" in CnH they are much much much less than in Arena. And of much lower quality. The fact that there is no in game support for any type of team more than 5 shows that this was more solo friendly.
Never said it didn't. However, there is a conspicuous lack of ANY ingame support for a team of more than 5. It can be overcome, but the layout and form of a CnH is by it's nature more newb and solo friendly as the zone itself encourages breaking up into smaller groups that work independently but coordinate to overall goals. This is diametrically opposite an arena match.
It's not. But Arena is built for competitive, fast paced small group tactics. Synergistic builds and a level of coordination that is literally light years ahead of what is required anywhere else in game. The best pvp fleets have reaction and coordination times of under one second. When we practice we work on timings that take into account the target callers position in the world and the lag associated with voice ping and latency in STO. In high end pvp the builds are so intertwined that alone they are terribad and would be insane to run. But together they work in a manner that is just devastating.
Arena is specifically built to cater to this. All the mechanics of the match are harsh and unforgiving. The only safety built in is the help you get from your teammates. High end pvp groups hunt through this vicious sea to find and devour each other. It's a meta game of team builds and tactics, feints and traps. It's end game for STO, maximizing build skill, playing skill, and knowledge of tactics and mechanics. It's very deep, challenging, and the ONLY thing of it's kind in STO.
Then you have people who have played less than 6 months coming in and complaining that they jumped in the shark tank with water wings and got bit. They don't understand it, but want to dumb it down. It's frustrating because the ENTIRE REST OF THE GAME IS DEDICATED to the most spacebar afk slammering lowest bar possible. If you want to solo and do pvp then go to CnH or kerrat. It's MADE to support you. If you want end game group tactics then get a group, or a couple of people and hit arena.
If you are getting pugstomped get a group and go fight back. It's not the game's fault, it's the lazy or antisocial players fault. If you want to solo, or not be competitive and lulz about then go the all the other places in STO that cater to you.
Elite pvp fleets don't want to pugstomp you. Hell, most of the time we will help you after a match figure out how to do better. I have lost count of the times I've gone into arena with a partner and helped new folks beat an uncoordinated premade or pugmade, then improve their build and tactics. It's the strength of the mixed queue now. It's how players get better. Segregating the high end pvp is bad for it in general and artificially creates a barrier to learning. Some people can't see that though as their ego is too fragile to take a loss from a better prepared group of players.
You know it would be interesting to know what percentage of Zen sales are from PvP directly and indirectly. Course it would be hard to track it as some people buy Zen for dilithium for rep and star base.
Tough to say really.
There's also the other thing, ya know, how some people are just THAT bad that they still can't do the content reliably in lockbox ships and every console known.
Still maybe I should have mentioned it was a bit of a sarcastic comment.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
That kind of playstyle should be mostly for tournaments. Professional sports have more relaxed exhibition preaseason and scrimmage matches, and minor league doesn't have to play major league.
I think some of these people just want a minor league to start in instead of having to start at the major league playoffs like it is now.
As has already been pointed out, capture and hold requires a better team to do well than arena. Also it is empty. (fed v fed) its all empty. If you want a match arena is where you go, sometimes a good pug sometimes a bad, but even then its pretty empty sometimes. This is an international game yet most of the PvP queues are empty, the arena pops the most, even then sometimes only after a long wait, depending on time of day. Not a good sign, time was you could level up just doing pvp, now it only pops at level 50 and even then the arena, not as populated as it was. Most people get pugstomped and well, dont come back its a bad sign. pvp population is like a canary on any game. As it is now its slowly dieing, whole days just fight the same people again and again.
if there was a team vs team queue and a pug only queue OR like Age of Conan no teaming in the queue at all then guess what, you would by your own definition learn things as when you are in your team, you would be playing other coordinated teams, and when you go in solo with a pug, there would be no definite chance of you being with your friends even if you entered the queue at the same time, so by your own criteria you should be in favor of Age of Conan`s solution to this problem. I am going one further and saying make 2 queues 1 for team 1 for pug, that way when your with your team you will get a good match and not just pugstomp.
Those guns "protecting" the spawn points are meaningless to any half competent player. With 1 press of the button of Scramble Sensors from my cloaked B'Rel / T'Varo, those guns are now your enemy. There is no protection if someone flies in with an EBC ship to drop a DPB3 of mines on those respawn points. That protection is meaningless when one team is absolutely getting steamrolled to the point of spawn camping, which can be bad in C&H because there is only 1 possible respawn point. I don't partake in that since it's not sporting, but damn it happens quite a bit.
Yes, there are fewer premades in C&H, but that doesn't mean they don't pop in. And when they do, it's noticeable.
If there was better matchmaking one could keep the current mixed solo/team queue and everybody would be happy, because in the end it only matters if the match is balanced, not whether some players came in pre-teamed.
Games like star conflict use similar systems and is helped by being able to change class on the fly.
STO pvp can be good if players played like skilled players more often, making the choice of which queues to join unlimited, Fed+kling teams and queues popping for 2v2s if and when necessary instead of waiting several minutes during slow days.
But I fear the shuttle queues and :metrics: have dented any hope of real sustained investment in pvp.
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Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
players /ships boffs /traits/toys and win loss records have to be given points
sides are determined by the number of points not the number of players
A Elite team may have only 2 players in it bexause they ae SO Elite
A noob side may have 6 players verses two decided by the number of points they have
Its the only way to attempt to bring balence to sto pvp
right now its elite pvpers /Hunters verses Prey/Noobs and that is why the number of pvpers are so small in ths game
being prey is no fun so very few noobs stick it out...... its just fact
If it isnt Fun they wont play
The 1st rule of game mastering
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Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
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It wont fix "everything" thats true, but I was on Age of Conan when it had a similar problem of uber synergy teams dominating the arenas. Which put people off of entering the arenas, so rather than make 2 queues or have a matchmaking system, they simply removed the option to enter the queue in a team, and teams were semi randomly allocated (by class so if 2 healers would be in the same match, 1 would go on one team, one the other) and it worked, more people started joining the queues, and it became in general a more fun experience if you went in pugging.
Im suggesting a 2 queue system, so that the fleets can still get their thing on and have fun fighting each other, and people who are pugging can get a slightly higher guarantee of getting a good match. I dont think the game is broken per se, although I have my pet hates, and things I would like to see being more powerful, ofc I do lol. And when I go in pugging its not always a pugstomp against the team im in either. Just as it is, compared to how it was, less people pvp now. And 5 man uber lobi and lockbox teams are gonna do nothing to make people think pvp is a fun thing. Let them have their toys, but if they want to have their 5 man, let them face against other 5 man teams, and if they are alone, no one on, let them join the pug queue, rather than Age of Conans drastic and cheap solution (typical funcom) of just making the queue pug only.
Kinda similiar to how Jellico put it. You have someone who is rank 7 on the leaderboard for the day he then queues for a Arean/CnH. The queue then looks at his rank and decides that that person is very good and gives him a value based on his K/D, GS and so forth. Then he can only Queue againest someone of his Calibre not some underneath it. There are plenty of puglets out there who can fight each other while the more experienced ones fight each other.
The result would be less frustrated players in PvP matches, I run with Rylana and his point about not learning anything from a Pugstomp is true id rather die 15 times in a row and learn something about a build or tactic i used than kill someone 15 times.
That would be a better solution than say an open pug queue.
What happens when one of us goes in and stomps the noobs? You know people would do that on purpose, especially a vaper that just wanted to troll.
if people could hear our TS when we are in the middle of a pugstomp they might actually understand. it usually goes something like this
"Alright, lets tar... whoa, he went down so fast i didnt even catch his name"
"TRIBBLE its a bunch of noobs"
"God damnit, I want better competition"
"Alright lets get this done quick"
"guys dont spawn camp, it makes us look bad"
"eh just doing it to get it done with"
"im bored i think ill go play something else"
"guys take some damage so I can heal you already"
"LOL Sisko died"
"yaman, i got rammed"
"you noob, always the one to die"
The sad reality is very few actually want to fight our fleetmade. We send challenges out and get turned down all the time, except for a couple really pro fleets running a stomp group of their own. Its almost like people just want to break our group up instead of putting theirs together. Sorry we beat you to it?
Its boring as hell lately. We try to find a fight, people (good players even) warp out on us, its like what the hell?
I probably fight anywhere from 10-25 matches a day lately. Of those maybe 2 or 3 are good, and the best ones tend to be the ones we either lose, or BARELY win.
Pretty rare this day and age =/
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
This happens even when its 2 or 3 of us with the same tag, even on screwaround toons, not a premade whatsoever.
Im sorry people lose? What the hell am I supposed to do? I cant MAKE someone play better.
Fact: If i went into a queue alone with a vanilla all white gear ship and kicked someones TRIBBLE theyd say I was either cheating or exploiting somehow, ***** at me and then leave calling me a hacker.
Swear to god. No matter what method occurs, if they die there is some excuse or shenanigans at hand. Its never because I am "gasp" a better player.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus