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Fed Dyson Sci Destroyer totally outclassed.
dsaris
Member Posts: 369 Arc User
Anyone else feel that the Fed Dyson Sci Destroyer is totally outclassed by its Romulan counterpart?
The Rom one gets battle cloak AND singularity powers. The Fed one... ... ... NOTHING.
Seems to me something is off balance here.
Buff the hull and shields... give it an extra power... do something to make it competitive b/c the Rom one totally blows it away.
The Rom one gets battle cloak AND singularity powers. The Fed one... ... ... NOTHING.
Seems to me something is off balance here.
Buff the hull and shields... give it an extra power... do something to make it competitive b/c the Rom one totally blows it away.
Post edited by dsaris on
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Comments
Errr...
My fed does just fine with this ship. You are really comparing apples and oranges here.
Yes, both are Dyson destroyers, but they are different sub classes.
The Romulan one has sing powers and battle cloak, but so does the other Romulan ships.
The fed one is standard fare for the federation, wich is ok by me.
Some differentiation is needed, and the Dyson destroyers follow the allready set theme in game as far as ships go, apart from lockbox ships that is, but they have allways been different.
The only thing I wish for it... that it wasnt so ugly.
The KDF and Rom one are pretty and have sweet lines, but the Fed.. yuck!
My old PC was out of whack, had to get a new one, and by the time I got it online, I think I'm, going to miss getting all three ships by a 80 Q points (2 days) because of it.
Use Lobi. You're looking at buying 8 Qmendation boxes at the worst.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
As a fed you (should) have access to surely more interesting stuff than the KDF and Rom.
The only thing really wrong with the Fed Dyson Destroyer is that it looks like they took a fleet avenger, swapped the nacelles for a vesta's ones and then threw the ship against a steel bar at warp speed...
Or feds could actually get into a better Sci Ship. These ships are OK, middle of the road types that require a ton of skill points to be good in tac mode or Sci mode you will not be good trying to be good in both. Also the tac ens is a complete an under useless boff because of the innate cannon so you are stuck with a cannon/BOL build or a cannon/torp build and if you want your tac powers more often you will have to run A2B and lose 1 of 2 eng skills.
Pretty much outside of combat you would get the normal masked energy field without the power drain and when leaving it for X seconds your weapons would drain 0 power when firing in addition to the normal bonus.
In-combat it would instead give you a defense, speed and turn boost while also confusing any targetable torpedo's in a area.
The premise for them 2 versions being that your using the out of combat one to get the drop on your enemy and attacking with everything you have diverted to weapons, In combat you are essentially using a masking field along with speed and maneuverability to throw off the opponents targeting locks.
It's not that tough to have 125 weapon power in tactical mode, and 125 aux power in science mode.
Go ahead-- duplicate that on a Romulan Sci Destroyer.
Toss in an engineering captain, and an [AMP] warp core, and you've got Death with Warp Nacelles.
You can actually get that as a romulan engineer fairly easily as well
Let's see... Plasmonic Leech, 9 points in flow cap, embassy flow cap console. Yeah, power issues are a thing of the past.
Feds get superb power levels. It requires no effort to get max Aux, then use an Aux->Wep warp core to maintain high weapon levels. Add in a Leech, and you're looking at Aux, Wep, and Shields maxed most of the time.
For Romulans, the Leech is required. There is no going without it, your build will suffer. That, and usually we must use an Embassy flow cap console to keep power levels up high enough to be useful. It's possible on a rom, but harder to do.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
Its not that bad in my opinion, they just need to shorten the Nacelles a little bit (seriously those things are freaking javelins) and have an alternate "up-swept" pylon option. That's the general shape of pretty much every flag design in Federation history (Enterprise A, B, E and now even F have it).
the solanae already has a higher shield mod, not buch higher granted but its better then the the Aves and Nov, if anything imo the Aves got the short end of the stick, 1.25 shield mod, 28,500 hull. the aves cleary sacrfices the .05 shield mode and 1500K hull for sing powers. i dunno about anyone else but i rarely ever use my sing powers, and if i have the full solanae set i might as well just use the metaphasic shield.
Not really grousing about it, but the Fed Sci Destroyers really are 'meh'. The KDF version really has my attention though as it fills a very sorely needed gap, AND has a really, really nice hull strength. Couple that with standard cloak, it really shines on the KDF side.
I know that the FED's get a superior shield multiplier, but with all the shield bypassing damage in the game, it doesn't really feel like all that big of a deal.
Better Shield Mod, better Power Levels, and better Core aren't enough? Oh wait look who I'm talking to...a Fed :rolleyes:
:P
Seriously though they're comparable just as any other Fed or Rom ship...if it's not powerful enough for you then pick up a Vesta.
Let's break this down.
Better shield mod... who cares, so much of the damage we see now is of the shield penetrating variety it doesn't matter if you've got 8k or 12k shields.
Better power levels... again, who cares. Plasmonic Leech takes care of any power deficiencies.
Better Core... that's more to do with power levels, isn't it?
And just for the record, I have Fed, KDF and Rom toons all fully geared and outfitted. I'm merely trying to point out that the Fed Dyson destroyer is completely outperformed by the KDF and Rom ones.
Vesta? Please. I've got a Temporal Sci, Voth Palisade and Tal Shiar Battlecruiser if I want to go hard core science on someone.
So let me get this straight. You have access to all those ships... and all the fed sci ships in general... and you still have the nerve to complain about the new fed ship, on false and rather lame reasoning?
*slow clap*
You're so awesome. (sarcasm is free of charge)
Oh? I wasn't aware the Borg and Voth had such shield penetrating power...I guess I must be such a newb when the only times I die are when a facing is down for a long period of time... :eek:
I guess Feds don't have access to the leech to boost their power levels higher? :rolleyes:
No...core has nothing to do with power levels...M/AM cores have such better stats than Singularity cores.
I'm sorry if you don't know what you're doing to the point where having 1500 more hull in your eyes is totally outperforming...
You guys are really missing the point. If the 3 Sci Destroyers were supposed to be equivalents the Fed one got left in the dust.
Feds have how many Science ships availible at Vice admiral?
Kidding, right?
Interchangable Commander BoFF slots and not one but two four-sets. These are the first Tier 7 ships and an indication of what is to come through the rest of the year.
Tier 7 LMAO!!!
My Vesta will run over these like a roadkill.
And your Vesta will get smoked by a JHAS that came out 3 years ago.
I'm not talking about broken cookie-cutter PvP. I mean in terms of versatility, adaptability and fancy new buttons to press.
It's a sci ship that can pinch-hit as an escort if called for... or a better MVAE that can lay down some wicked drain or control abilities at the right moment.
With continued power creep they couldn't give us 11 console ships without making all the 10 console ones look like the once powerful Galaxy Dreadnought does now. So instead we get switchable Commander BoFFs and 4-sets.
This is the truth right here. It doesn't matter what other ships some captain has access to, not sure why the 'slow clap'. The issue is the clearly unbalanced nature of these faction ships. They are all equal at the base, then the Fed ship gets 4% more shields, lets call that a +1. The Klink ship gets 5.2% more hull (+1) and built-in standard cloak (another +1 for +2 total). The Rommy ships get battle cloak, well that's a +2 on this scale as well in my eyes.
This is clearly not fairly balanced. The Fed ships should perhaps have the shield and the hull bonuses, then I would feel fairly treated, and I would buy. As it is, regardless of whatever convaluted reasoning the apologists offer, the Federation science destroyers are slightly inferior to the other faction's science destroyers. I personally will not pay the exact same as someone else for an inferior ship.
I got caught in this deceptive trap with the Avenger Battle Cruiser, where I paid for that ship prior to the Klingon version being revealed. That one was perhaps worse in that there wasn't even the pretense of balancing the built-in Klingon cloaking device with stat modifications. That one was just a straight-up slap to the face - trying to tell us cloak isn't worth any balancing stat change at all. The only way one could accept this is to assume Federation ship designers and engineers are incompetent and while Klinks can do everything that the Fed's can do, while they are fitting in cloaking devices our engineers must be sitting around with their thumbs checking their rectal temperatures.
Again, they will not get me to spend the same money for lessor value unless I hit my head and lose many IQ points.
I was not talking about PvP.
Versatility you say? Universal Lt.Cmdr and universal Ens. Boff slots let me shape my Boff powers as I please. Without having 60 sec. cooldown if I switch from tactical to science. You get one high end Boff power with a cooldown, I get 4 Boff powers without a cooldown. You only get one Lt.Uni on a Dyson. The multitude of console combinations are comparable between the 2 bundles.
So versatility - Vesta >>> Dyson.
Pinch-hitting escorts? The Vesta can do the same, even better. Same turn rate, DHCs up front, better drain and control abilities due to better Boff layout.
If Dyson goes into tactical to get more firepower on the escort, you get a +1 useless proton DHC and lose sybsystem targeting and sensor analysis. If a Vesta wants to go tactical on an escort, it still retains the sybsystem targeting and sensor analysis, can use the quantum focused phaser beam of doom and has a hangar bay of elite yellowstones to ruin their day.
The best part about it? Vesta DHCs and Quantum Focused Field Controler run on aux. power, so with overcapped aux. the Vesta can put on the pain as well as the drain in enormous amounts.
4 piece sets? I can have one of those 4 piece sets on my Vesta if I want to. The Vesta consoles and 3-piece set are more usefull than the Dyson 3-console set IMHO and the other 4-piece dyson set is pure TRIBBLE. Reducing outgoing firepower and manuverability on a science ship? Yeah, that's full of win. :rolleyes:
Besides, we'll be getting new fleet rep sets tied to secondary deflectors in a while that will probably blow these into the water.
The only thing the Dyson has on the Vesta is a slightly better shield mod. And for players that know how to build and use a ship, this is not an enormous difference.
In my book - Vesta >>> Dyson, every step of the way.
Not that big a deal considering how few science ships the KDF and Romulan Flotilla have available to them.
Let's see...
In STO shield >>> hull. So here the Fed. ship has clear advantage.
In STO less crew >>> more crew. With 400 against KDF 1000, the Fed ship has 2.5 times the repair rate of the KDF ship. With 400 against Romulan 600 it has a better repair rate than the Romulan one as well.
The balance between the Fed & KDF one comes to the Fed having better shields and repair rate as oposed to the KDF option of basic cloak - so 1 alpha strike potential, which is balanced with much slower repair rate and more hull to repair.
The Romulan one has a battlecloak and sing abilities, which are counter-balanced by the 40 power to sybsystems just like every other Romulan ship and by it having both the lower hull from the Fed one and the lower shield mod. from the KDF one.
It also has more crew than the Fed, so slower repair rate from the Fed ship. At the same time better repair rate than the KDF one, probably to balance out the fact that it has the least system power availible (which is important with sci.ships) and lowest hull and shields combined.
The ships are balanced against each other, they might as well be carbon copies. What is not balanced is the Romulan Boffs that will boost the Romulan battlecloak on the Romulan variant to extraordinary levels, but yeah....Romulans are OP in STO, what's new?