If I can do enough DPS to get into one, I don't need the group... ... ...
Seems redundant to me...
This... In pugs with my Eng-Scimitar, I push out 8 to 16k (how many others are running Beta) in ICE. It's nothing special, the mission gets cleared and we all move on. The difference between 5minutes and 15minutes isn't that big of a deal to me though.
And at least for me, Hive Onslaught is only really where I start to care, and that's more a matter of knowing the encounter than DPS [and not getting lanced by lame bugs].
I agree those guys metaphorically waving their penises around are bloody annoying. But to be honest I think you get them in every game. If I find them in sto sometimes ill ask for tips, otherwise ill just ignore if they're really annoying. I also lead a fleet and have to deal with some of it, personally I've come to the conclusion that's something in the game that's important to them, its not really for me but we all get differing things from these games.
Since I started plaing I've not had too many troubles with anything like that, mostly I just think "good for you, TRIBBLE" and move on.
I've recently started a new sci toon, and being the bottom of the pile in terms of my toons and gear he's still stuck in a fleet nebula until I get the anniversary ship. Its weapon dps even with fleet gear is woeful, but I can honestly say as I've only ever been flamed for it once ingame (some git on nebula rescue because I couldn't solo a delahn warbird in his idea of a good time).
Other than that I've found players to be quite accepting of me in conduit,crystal,vortex etc so long as I know the drill and I do my best to support the team etc.
It bugs me too sometimes the "bet I can out dps you" thing. But fun can be had, today I had a four man team pvp infleet and nobody even mentioned dps, it was mainly complements and "where did you get/how did you do that" etc.
This stuff will only annoy you as much as you let it mate, just grab a cup or can of whatever, have 5mins and move on
"If this will be our end, then I will have them make SUCH an end as to be worthy of rememberance! Out of torpedos you say?! Find me the ferengi!".
DPS is nice,but it's not the end all be all. eSTF's are completable even without relying on high-DPS for all players as long as the right tactics are deployed.
That's actually a terrible example. Crystalline Catastrophe is the only Fleet Action that weighs damage and healing for scoring, so if you pull average DPS with above-average HPS, you still stand a chance at getting first place. I'll give you every other Fleet Action, but Crystalline Catastrophe isn't as dependent on raw damage as the others.
That example is only true if you are a healer against a DPSer.
You fail to acknowledge the possibility of an Elite DPSer healing at the same time, their chances of getting First is almost guaranteed. The only exception is if they are against another EDPSer+Healer that does a better job of it.
They should design some queue PvEs where tanking or science abilities play an important role. How they are going to do that I got no idea though, since this game is too much about DPS and less about survival, healing or crowd control.
Tyr shall give me strength! For the glory of Tempus! I am the hands of Shar! Flames of Kossuth, protect me! Oghma, grant me knowledge! Lolth commands, and I obey!
Would love to see a link to a video of someone with white gear soloing KSE or CSE without failing the optionals. I'll believe it when I see it.
I did not say a ship with White gear could solo an ESTF. I said a team with White gear can do one easily. A ship with decent gear can solo an ESTF - and there are plenty of videos showing that.
Edit: Though I would not be surprised to be able to solo an ESTF in my Jem Dread with only White gear. I might not get the bonus, but I possibly could do it; especially ISE.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
As a fleet leader I have no issue with any of my members wanting to achieve max dps but what I will not stand for is once they get there max dps they then begin to ignore there fellow members and what I mean is not want to run with them due to lack of dps.
Ive seen it first hand and so has my co. leader people get there dps then start to ignore their fellow fleet members becouse lack of dps or they dont know what there doing and thats bull TRIBBLE and we call them out on it if they dont like it there's the air lock leave. To me its like once they catch that dps virus they forget what a fleet is really about and no its not every man for themselves.
I could be in a dps channel but I choose not to be would it be nice to run all the space stf's in record time yes but what about my members that dont have dps ? Do I force it onto them say you cant run with us until you do get dps?? No I dont id rather take the time and run these missions with my fleet and have fun after all thats what a fleet is really for.
We knew DPS was going up the second they gave Romulans innate increased crit. The devs had to make money somehow, so the new thing is better than the old, commence money throwing. Same with spire tac consoles, just more power creep. Let the devs make money, someone has to pay for the game.
PvP is a whole different bear. Absurd criticals, not sustained dps, are the sole reason why vapers exist. And my 10k dps Mobius could eat a 30k+ dps Scimitar (only gets those numbers in PvE btw) in a few seconds. After all, in PvP, sci captain beats tac captain any day.
My concern is that lately seems that this topic is becoming more and more predominant, the emphasis in DPS, how much you do, how much you don't and I am honestly worried, I have seen the damage done to WoW and other games when players become more and more obsess with having a super elite build that can guarantee a 100% success rate and super short period of times to accomplish event.
Last night I was doing the no win scenario event and one guy immediately after we finish the first wave started to rant about how little damage/DPS we were doing and blah blah blah of course we lost after 4 waves.
I don't follow...So it's bad if someone wants to have a decent NWS run?
Link a video of someone soloing HOSE and getting all optionals and we'll believe you.
Hmm...could you though?
I don't mean someone not having the skill and build for it. I mean, would the game actually not mess up if it was only one person soloing it?
Point is that, during the 2nd phase while fighting the Unimatrix ships, you have to keep 3 people alive at a time. If a person was alone, would the game auto-fail that optional, or not?
If it did, technically that would make that achievement impossible to try and go for since you could never get all 3 optionals by yourself.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
So I have this engineer farm alt, leveled it up over the last three months just doing contraband turn ins and some other doff assignments.
Decided to do something with it. At level 40 I picked up the advanced escort.
Threw on Mk XI Phaser DHCs/Turrets, phaser consoles, neutronium, shield emitters (lol), gave it some cannon specials.
At level 50 I took it into ISE
Did over 5000 DPS with it, almost 6000.
No rep. Base crit chance. Nothing over common quality, no special boffs, no doffs. Just a blank ship with a bunch o TRIBBLE i bought off the exchange for less than 100k EC (seriously)
Go casual, youll feel better. Those of us that chase DPS just cause we can, its not a big deal man.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
DPS. So many people believe it to be nessesary. Somewhere in this thread I saw somebody saying that 10k is needed for Khitomer probes. All these misassumptions out here.
Lets just start with those Khitomer probes, shall we? Personally, I am a cruiser captain. I do have characters with science vessels, raiders, carriers and destroyers, but my main (which I play around 70% of my time) is a cruiser captain.
Recently, I decided to start a new experiment with a new ship (a Mirror Heavy Cruiser Retrofit) because why not? I went full phaser, making a mix of broadsiding and forward firepower. Something I like. Ofcourse not as DPSy as the Aux2Bat full FAW DEM Broadside build. But hey, its an experiment (and I don't like A2B myself).
In an afternoon, by replacing some stuff during runs of ESTF's, I bumbed the original design that made 2,5k up to 4k (its not an expensive build, I had only 300k ec at that time to work with). The 4k run was me guarding probes in Khitomer. Guess how many got through? Exactly, 0.
10k is even more than it takes to handle all the probes on a map. When my Mogai has a bad day and stops at 8k (it happens, I think she does have a strong will for when to shine and when not), I can handle the probes of BOTH SIDES of the gates. Ofcourse not all 8, but I can manage the initial 4. Then when my team destroyes a gate before starting on gate 2, I can finish off the Sphere Waves by myself. And still not let a single probe slip through.
There is only one map of which I know that DPS is important, and that is the No Win Scenario. With a meh DPS you can get up to wave 9 cleared, but wave 10, that means you need to have somebody with 20k sitting at each side (one of those teams carried me through wave 10, I was in a 6k ship myself healing the Epohh out of everything). All the other maps are fine.
Take STF's for example. They were created in a time where 5k DPS was more than average, and they were created for teams that had an average of 5k. Having 5 players doing 5k gave you the possibility of actually getting that optional. Now, with all the power creep, I usually fly next to people ranging from 20 to 40k DPS. We tend to take as many players of our fleet as possible in those matches, including new ones that still fly the famed Skittle Boat (gotta love those tbh). And we can still complete them with ease.
So personally, my experience is that DPS is not that important in this game. As long as you are not the horrible 789 DPS person, but can bump yourself up to 3-5k (which can be achieved by the gear you get from certain episode replay), you are safe.
As for Elitists, you can avoid them in so many ways. Just join a fleet that isn't about DPS, DPS and DPS, but about having fun playing the game. If you do that, you are safe on the DPS side and can enjoy the game any way you want to.
Are we playing the same game? When the hell is DPS an issue here? If anything DPS is getting higher and higher through new skills and abilities and most of the content is staying exactly as it is. Even the new stuff is really not that hard.
of it but of all the things to worry about. this one is not much of an issue.
Are we playing the same game? When the hell is DPS an issue here? If anything DPS is getting higher and higher through new skills and abilities and most of the content is staying exactly as it is. Even the new stuff is really not that hard.
of it but of all the things to worry about. this one is not much of an issue.
I agree that this shouldn't be an issue, but is becoming one and that is why I am starting to worry.
It is become more and more a sounding table in how to measure how good a player is and I have seen this many times before, like in WoW and that is why I brought it up.
I have an MVAE and caught the bug of killing things harder/faster and while I enjoyed seeing my DPS go up I didn't really enjoy the playing much... I just sat parked, unloaded and repeated.
I remember when I first started playing STO how excited I was to get into space battles... you know trying to recreate space battles from the show. I especially love it when you time the kill right and you do the whole fly into the explosion thing.. hahahah.
So I was thinking what I could do just to bring a lil more of the strategy back into the game. One of which was giving my ship phasers, quantums & torpedos. As well as stick to no park rule and you know what?... I was having fun! I kept all my high end gear like shields/def etc but just changed my weapons to MK X blues and matching tac consoles to match. I was actually netting 6k + in ISE wherein I usually do 12+.
I actually started a channel with some friends and we went into ISE with lower end weapons and we actually had to use strategy via comms and it was exciting... no one was sitting everyone was flying around and we had to rely on our sci cap to control the incoming nanite probes.
The channel I created is Star Trek Battles.. it is a WIP but the purpose of it is NOT to finish ISE in 2 mins or any other STF as quick as possible. The purpose of it is to fly your ship and force you to work with your team mates.
It will never replace your need to grind out marks meaning you still have to have your builds that do NWS etc... but once all your grinding is done... grab a couple of peeps from the channel and play STO.
Sorry for the long rant but if anyone is interested for an invite let me know... my handle is @trizeo1
If I can do enough DPS to get into one, I don't need the group... ... ...
Seems redundant to me...
Exactly.
on a side note, read where someone wanted you to pull 10k to kill probes in KA... good thing you weren't around in the old days when DSSV/Vulcan Sci ships held each side with GW/tractors and killed them with 10,000 pinpricks while the old fleet escorts gave everything hell. 10k to kill probes? Be like smashing a gnat with a truck
If I can do enough DPS to get into one, I don't need the group... ... ...
Seems redundant to me...
It's final fantasy syndrome. Hey this boss here drops insert op weapon/item/etc! Of course once you've beaten it you've already done the hardest content in the game and have no need for said op weapon/item/etc.
It's final fantasy syndrome. Hey this boss here drops insert op weapon/item/etc! Of course once you've beaten it you've already done the hardest content in the game and have no need for said op weapon/item/etc.
Yup. As the lady would tell Neo, Now this is what's really gonna bake your noodle, later on: you're grinding for the gear you need to defeat the boss... with gear you're already using to defeat the boss!
Or put more Crypticly, Obtaining your Tier 5 Rep gear is 100% positive proof that you don't need it.
I would like to have the ability to test our weapons, consoles etc in one area with dummie ships. But I don't think we have one.
*cough* Tribble *cough*
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I don't want to do Tribble, why more junk on my PC. When you start the tutorial you have dummie stuff to blow up, why we cannot have a targeting dummie area to check and test our equipment?
Comments
This... In pugs with my Eng-Scimitar, I push out 8 to 16k (how many others are running Beta) in ICE. It's nothing special, the mission gets cleared and we all move on. The difference between 5minutes and 15minutes isn't that big of a deal to me though.
And at least for me, Hive Onslaught is only really where I start to care, and that's more a matter of knowing the encounter than DPS [and not getting lanced by lame bugs].
Since I started plaing I've not had too many troubles with anything like that, mostly I just think "good for you, TRIBBLE" and move on.
I've recently started a new sci toon, and being the bottom of the pile in terms of my toons and gear he's still stuck in a fleet nebula until I get the anniversary ship. Its weapon dps even with fleet gear is woeful, but I can honestly say as I've only ever been flamed for it once ingame (some git on nebula rescue because I couldn't solo a delahn warbird in his idea of a good time).
Other than that I've found players to be quite accepting of me in conduit,crystal,vortex etc so long as I know the drill and I do my best to support the team etc.
It bugs me too sometimes the "bet I can out dps you" thing. But fun can be had, today I had a four man team pvp infleet and nobody even mentioned dps, it was mainly complements and "where did you get/how did you do that" etc.
This stuff will only annoy you as much as you let it mate, just grab a cup or can of whatever, have 5mins and move on
"If this will be our end, then I will have them make SUCH an end as to be worthy of rememberance! Out of torpedos you say?! Find me the ferengi!".
"If this will be our end, then I will have them make SUCH an end as to be worthy of rememberance! Out of torpedos you say?! Find me the ferengi!".
That example is only true if you are a healer against a DPSer.
You fail to acknowledge the possibility of an Elite DPSer healing at the same time, their chances of getting First is almost guaranteed. The only exception is if they are against another EDPSer+Healer that does a better job of it.
For the glory of Tempus!
I am the hands of Shar!
Flames of Kossuth, protect me!
Oghma, grant me knowledge!
Lolth commands, and I obey!
Edit: Though I would not be surprised to be able to solo an ESTF in my Jem Dread with only White gear. I might not get the bonus, but I possibly could do it; especially ISE.
Ive seen it first hand and so has my co. leader people get there dps then start to ignore their fellow fleet members becouse lack of dps or they dont know what there doing and thats bull TRIBBLE and we call them out on it if they dont like it there's the air lock leave. To me its like once they catch that dps virus they forget what a fleet is really about and no its not every man for themselves.
I could be in a dps channel but I choose not to be would it be nice to run all the space stf's in record time yes but what about my members that dont have dps ? Do I force it onto them say you cant run with us until you do get dps?? No I dont id rather take the time and run these missions with my fleet and have fun after all thats what a fleet is really for.
PvP is a whole different bear. Absurd criticals, not sustained dps, are the sole reason why vapers exist. And my 10k dps Mobius could eat a 30k+ dps Scimitar (only gets those numbers in PvE btw) in a few seconds. After all, in PvP, sci captain beats tac captain any day.
I don't follow...So it's bad if someone wants to have a decent NWS run?
No but if you queue up for a pug nws you deserve what's going to happen.
Hmm...could you though?
I don't mean someone not having the skill and build for it. I mean, would the game actually not mess up if it was only one person soloing it?
Point is that, during the 2nd phase while fighting the Unimatrix ships, you have to keep 3 people alive at a time. If a person was alone, would the game auto-fail that optional, or not?
If it did, technically that would make that achievement impossible to try and go for since you could never get all 3 optionals by yourself.
So I have this engineer farm alt, leveled it up over the last three months just doing contraband turn ins and some other doff assignments.
Decided to do something with it. At level 40 I picked up the advanced escort.
Threw on Mk XI Phaser DHCs/Turrets, phaser consoles, neutronium, shield emitters (lol), gave it some cannon specials.
At level 50 I took it into ISE
Did over 5000 DPS with it, almost 6000.
No rep. Base crit chance. Nothing over common quality, no special boffs, no doffs. Just a blank ship with a bunch o TRIBBLE i bought off the exchange for less than 100k EC (seriously)
Go casual, youll feel better. Those of us that chase DPS just cause we can, its not a big deal man.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Lets just start with those Khitomer probes, shall we? Personally, I am a cruiser captain. I do have characters with science vessels, raiders, carriers and destroyers, but my main (which I play around 70% of my time) is a cruiser captain.
Recently, I decided to start a new experiment with a new ship (a Mirror Heavy Cruiser Retrofit) because why not? I went full phaser, making a mix of broadsiding and forward firepower. Something I like. Ofcourse not as DPSy as the Aux2Bat full FAW DEM Broadside build. But hey, its an experiment (and I don't like A2B myself).
In an afternoon, by replacing some stuff during runs of ESTF's, I bumbed the original design that made 2,5k up to 4k (its not an expensive build, I had only 300k ec at that time to work with). The 4k run was me guarding probes in Khitomer. Guess how many got through? Exactly, 0.
10k is even more than it takes to handle all the probes on a map. When my Mogai has a bad day and stops at 8k (it happens, I think she does have a strong will for when to shine and when not), I can handle the probes of BOTH SIDES of the gates. Ofcourse not all 8, but I can manage the initial 4. Then when my team destroyes a gate before starting on gate 2, I can finish off the Sphere Waves by myself. And still not let a single probe slip through.
There is only one map of which I know that DPS is important, and that is the No Win Scenario. With a meh DPS you can get up to wave 9 cleared, but wave 10, that means you need to have somebody with 20k sitting at each side (one of those teams carried me through wave 10, I was in a 6k ship myself healing the Epohh out of everything). All the other maps are fine.
Take STF's for example. They were created in a time where 5k DPS was more than average, and they were created for teams that had an average of 5k. Having 5 players doing 5k gave you the possibility of actually getting that optional. Now, with all the power creep, I usually fly next to people ranging from 20 to 40k DPS. We tend to take as many players of our fleet as possible in those matches, including new ones that still fly the famed Skittle Boat (gotta love those tbh). And we can still complete them with ease.
So personally, my experience is that DPS is not that important in this game. As long as you are not the horrible 789 DPS person, but can bump yourself up to 3-5k (which can be achieved by the gear you get from certain episode replay), you are safe.
As for Elitists, you can avoid them in so many ways. Just join a fleet that isn't about DPS, DPS and DPS, but about having fun playing the game. If you do that, you are safe on the DPS side and can enjoy the game any way you want to.
Join the Deltas today!
of it but of all the things to worry about. this one is not much of an issue.
This, if you join a PUG don't complaint if people have low DPS or don't know all the details about the mission, we all have to start somewhere.
I agree that this shouldn't be an issue, but is becoming one and that is why I am starting to worry.
It is become more and more a sounding table in how to measure how good a player is and I have seen this many times before, like in WoW and that is why I brought it up.
THIS! I recently started this thread
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1014301
I have an MVAE and caught the bug of killing things harder/faster and while I enjoyed seeing my DPS go up I didn't really enjoy the playing much... I just sat parked, unloaded and repeated.
I remember when I first started playing STO how excited I was to get into space battles... you know trying to recreate space battles from the show. I especially love it when you time the kill right and you do the whole fly into the explosion thing.. hahahah.
So I was thinking what I could do just to bring a lil more of the strategy back into the game. One of which was giving my ship phasers, quantums & torpedos. As well as stick to no park rule and you know what?... I was having fun! I kept all my high end gear like shields/def etc but just changed my weapons to MK X blues and matching tac consoles to match. I was actually netting 6k + in ISE wherein I usually do 12+.
I actually started a channel with some friends and we went into ISE with lower end weapons and we actually had to use strategy via comms and it was exciting... no one was sitting everyone was flying around and we had to rely on our sci cap to control the incoming nanite probes.
The channel I created is Star Trek Battles.. it is a WIP but the purpose of it is NOT to finish ISE in 2 mins or any other STF as quick as possible. The purpose of it is to fly your ship and force you to work with your team mates.
It will never replace your need to grind out marks meaning you still have to have your builds that do NWS etc... but once all your grinding is done... grab a couple of peeps from the channel and play STO.
Sorry for the long rant but if anyone is interested for an invite let me know... my handle is @trizeo1
see you in game and pew pew away!
Exactly.
on a side note, read where someone wanted you to pull 10k to kill probes in KA... good thing you weren't around in the old days when DSSV/Vulcan Sci ships held each side with GW/tractors and killed them with 10,000 pinpricks while the old fleet escorts gave everything hell. 10k to kill probes? Be like smashing a gnat with a truck
It's pretty straight-forward once you get it configured properly. Here's a quick how-to:
http://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/yoc4e/how_to_act_a_semicomprehensive_guide/
Using ACT or some other parser is critical if you're serious about optimizing your builds.
It's final fantasy syndrome. Hey this boss here drops insert op weapon/item/etc! Of course once you've beaten it you've already done the hardest content in the game and have no need for said op weapon/item/etc.
Yup. As the lady would tell Neo, Now this is what's really gonna bake your noodle, later on: you're grinding for the gear you need to defeat the boss... with gear you're already using to defeat the boss!
Or put more Crypticly, Obtaining your Tier 5 Rep gear is 100% positive proof that you don't need it.
LOL.
This is funny to me only because the PvE in this game is so forgiving and so easy that once you're equipped in decent gear, it really doesn't matter.
You're right, it defintely doesn't, but I still like to play with ship builds and I'm always interested in knowing how much damage I'm doing.
I would like to have the ability to test our weapons, consoles etc in one area with dummie ships. But I don't think we have one.
*cough* Tribble *cough*
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I don't want to do Tribble, why more junk on my PC. When you start the tutorial you have dummie stuff to blow up, why we cannot have a targeting dummie area to check and test our equipment?