I'm sorry for being a newbie here but what is a gal-r? Cardassian Galor? Galaxy Dreadnaught?
And I would love to somehow see your build please and I would get a kick out of doing a rainbow setup that does decent dmg.
Then again, there is no way to know what kind of dmg I do in this game so I have no clue if I've been playing good for the past 4 years or not lol
Galaxy Retrofit - the T5 version of the T4 Galaxy Class ship.
There are lots of builds in the Federation Shipyard section of the forum. Just search through some threads there and you will see builds for any Fed ship you want to fly.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Yeah, I've heard at least one report of this actually happening. Poor sod had no idea what the hell happened to him, it was in the forums somewhere. I knew that guy wasn't AFK...he just wasn't any good. But should being bad really be a bannable offense now?
Well, in my case, purposely seeking out to fly with ppl I know are 10x the pilot than I am, really is looking for trouble in all the wrong places. :P
It shouldn't occur in a PUG, no. And I don't think Cryptic means to penalize low DPS per se. But their anti-AFK system has to use *some* criteria to make its determinations (like how much DPS you did, relative to the others, for one).
1. Since dps is the only thing that matters in the game at current, yes people will measure it and judge others based on it.
2. There being no to little legit challenge in the game, people are making a challenge to themselves to see how fast they can get STF's done. This of course is done by pushing dps higher and higher.
Cryptic really needs to address the lack of real challenge in the game right now and they need to address the fact that dps is the only thing that matters.
The worst i've ever experienced is people who parse Elite STFs and then post the results in chat afterwards, as if it's some sort of extra reward that such and such parsed the highest. And while I find such people obnoxious and irritating, they don't really cripple the game.
Ya, that happened to me twice : with my scimitar and my rom toon and I was the best of the pug and when , some time ago, I was ... "relaxing" with my human Voyager science toon and, although I was definitely doing more than 1k, this guy ranted about how we were TRIBBLE it up because I and another guy we were not good for playing elite stfs.
The key thing missing there is ... fun . The most important reason you play a game is to have fun. If you are so obsessed about your and others' DPS, you are not having fun, so why are you playing in the first place?
Second is cooperation ... You know that science ships , in general, do less DPS than escorts and cruisers but, still ... I run a dual beam banks Scimitar ( because I like DPS but I also like a challenge and I also like doing ... real damage, you know ) so , when a science ship throws a gravity well at some spheres ( Gravity Well 3, always Gravity Well 3), I don't care what's its DPS, because he's doing me a big favour, since he's lining them up in front of my dual beam banks which can finish the job.
And I also liked it when some guy ... rarely ... threw me a transfer shield strength or some healing ability , probably because he noticed I was pulling most of the weight for the group, which is what I should do if I drive a Scimitar.
That's the spirit and everyone wins.
Anyway, DPS is not the Devil ... I just drive a 18k Scimitar, not so ... "OP" and I am constantly improving myself but the way I see it is that , thanks to my firepower and my leadership, whoever ends up in a ISE PUG with me for example, has got high chances to complete the optional and grind his Omega marks.
If there's some other big hitter like me, it won't be great if I am testing some build lol but , it's ok ... we'll finish sooner.
Of course, you'll never see me ranting at some noob ... if I end up with a team of noobs, well, I'll accept the challenge and do my best and solo the Borg if necessary : I've been a noob too and I've learnt ... eventually he'll learn too
I've got ACT for when I want to try out new builds. Like it or not it can be quite difficult to just tell if you've gone up, even by quite a bit, from changing things around, particularly when swapping up a bunch of BOFF damage powers [like tachyon beam, rift, GW, etc].
But proper parsing requires checking individual engagements and their parameters. The cruiser with A2FAW, 7 beam arrays and a wide-angle quantum will certainly get his 30+k DPS when permanently firing at 6-7 different things with every volley. But unless they're non-regenerating unshielded nanite generators, the guy with a Gravitorp Spread III, GW I/III and Scatter will probably be killing things a lot more effectively, despite your best moment being a third of that.
Whether the copypasted result some people put up at the end of an STF is of any use depends on how it's calibrated... But the biggest numbers come from skewed methods.
Just to clarify. I was surely not trying to offend those who properly use parsing for the purpose that I believe it was intended, self-improvement. That is a good thing. My brother does it all the time.
What I was addressing were the DPS snobs who use the parser as an excuse to exclude people and make others feel inferior. Those are the parser-snobs I was pointing at and I think they know who they are.
I apoligize to those others who underservedly may have been offended.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I have not seen this Parsing BS before S.7 .
I dunno of it was the lack of "gamers" or the lack of consoles that uber-boost your DPS at the expense of your eng-sci consoles (most of which were first introduced in the Lobi store and then into the Rep systems) -- point is this was not an issue before S.7 , before the Lobi consoles and before the Romulan rep system .
Nobody Parsed each other in public , we didn't have ridiculous channels sprouting like mushrooms (DPS5000 et.al.) -- and from my perspective , we didn't have a segregation in the playerbase based on DPS (in a game that does not actually need DPS in the first place to get things done).
This came from other games .
This came from the "gamer" mentality . (not to be confused with the PVP mentality)
And , like the OP , I too think that public parsing is a way of getting an ego trip at the expense of your team mates .
And considering how many ppl I carried through the old STF's (when the skill tree was different and almost no one specced into ground) -- I really don't appreciate this trend of players suddenly "judging" other ppl on the basis of how much Lobi they've spent or how pathetically squishy they made their ship just in order to get just a little more DPS in exchange . :rolleyes:
Thing with these things though, if someone else is running it, your own results will differ if you run it as the same time, as STOs combat log seems to have a set range (I think it was around 30 Km) of what it tracks around you - so posting parse logs is pointless as the only decent result is that of the person posting.
As someone spoiled by the numerous, highly intelligent players in ToS Veterans, I see the difference between fleet runs and pugs everyday for years now.
Unlike WoW, and most other MMO's, STO has a very high learning curve when it comes to effective starship builds. DPS is only one aspect. Yes, its the easiest to track, but so many factors are essential to good dps that gear itself is a low-man on the totem pole of a successful build.
Wow was all about gear. 99% of your damage dealt in WoW is done so in a stationary position. Damage taken in WoW is all encompassing. Without good management in STO, you will not be effective. STO space combat is dynamic and fluid.
I see pugs pull 1-2k dps all the time. I see them die all the time. It's not because the content is hard, its because managing everything a STO starship has to offer, including build, is!
The 10k dps channels are players with effective management skills. Personal leadership that has a lot more to do with decision making than rolling a face across a keyboard.
Ive seen 5-7k control, science heavy builds that neuter STFs, and it dose take skill, timing, and good piloting to do it. I've never seen anyone say those kinds of builds suck in STFs because a good one is a marvel to behold.
One of the things that players hate the most in WoW was the constant, "let me what DPS you did", "kick him out of our party he is no doing enough DPS", "sorry you cannot join us your build is not DPS enough".
Now this TRIBBLE is crippling into our game, constant worry about DPS is not a good sign for this game, if you want pleasure to be measured about DPS you better provide a blueprint of what is needed to be a good DPSer.
You're about three years behind. the DPS epeen issue in Star Trek Online has existed since the first revamp of STFs when the farming of them began. What HAS happened recently is that because of player power creep (something all MMOs deal with as they get a few years of new gear under their belt) is that you now have same insane player builds (tweaked specifically for one encounter) that can do 30K - 50K DPS where 10K-15K was the 'high mark' previously.
But like I said, power creep is an issue for any MMO that is getting regular updates and has lasted a few years.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
There is nothing wrong with parsing, in and of itself.
The problem comes when people start thinking that the parser is godlike and infallible, and if it doesn't make the holy number reach higher into heaven, you have performed an unforgivable sin.
It's been said, but I think it's one of those preaching to the choir situations. This game is tuned to where difficulty is only an illusion. It's not built to test a gamers skills and reflexes. Almost any other game I've ever played is a better measure of skill. This game is a Trek fantasyland vacation spot. Trying to turn it into an E-Sport or DPS race or anything other then what it is will lead to disapointment in the end. The thing is, trying to tell that to anybody that is still stuck in the high performance or bust mindset won't see it. I enjoy playing at that level, in games that actually support it, or rather I did before I got old. STO isn't that game.
Parsers are great tools, but playing to one here is only fun till you realize you are only pleasuring yourself...
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Get yourself into PvP where DPS is really only 10% of the work. In fact, many of the best PvPers I know would probably pull miserable DPS in an STF. But the sense of reward is massively higher; and diverse, against-the-grain builds are genuinely respected.
My principle is that as long as you hit the magic 10k DPS number, you're good. Why 10k? Because 10k is required to kill the probes when they travel at normal speeds to the gate. My life is easier when you can do that. Yes, science officers focus on controlling (myself included) and can delay those probes nearly indefinitely, but I need to know that if the stuff hits the fan, you'll be able to at least blow up the probes.
I also wish that you could view a player's currently equipped items and see if you want to deal with him/her. I'm looking at you, guy running 6x Single Cannons on an Odyssey.
Sardak (Science Officer): Captain of a 23k DPS R'Mor Temporal Science Vessel, R.R.W. Vathos Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
I don't really like people being so obsessed with DPS myself, its bad for the community I think. Even being specced for pvp, I have some 30k+ builds but don't use those dps channels anymore as I would rather be a member of the whole community so I pug and use public channels. PVE is easy enough that I can carry bad groups anyway, no need for segregation.
Also DPS doesn't tell the whole story, if someone is doing a lot of dps but it is spread out over targets the team doesn't benefit as much then from someone doing less dps but spiking targets down fast so they aren't shooting at you anymore.
I don't think you need to to set a dps goal, as long as you can guard 4 probes at once in KASE through dps or cc your build is generally of some usefulness in an stf so I don't mind having you in group.
Even then, if that 10k is "total when surrounded by 8 pallisades", you're not as useful as the guy that deals just 6k to three targets at a time in a sustained fashion with all his AoEs. When dealing with the boss, blowing a portal/assault-cube or otherwise handling just 1-2 things at once, the latter would be far better, despite having a comparatively cruddy DPS on other maps.
That rainbow destroyer 50km away is popping your probes perfectly well, even while hitting those spheres the generator-guys have been ignoring, but he's not showing up one iota on most parsers, and probably wouldn't have gotten on the team if you could see he's packed the EPW.
Except this isnt the case in pve on STO. You can play any content easily with any setup. Also you'll never get "kicked" because of the lack of pure dps, hell most players won't be concerned with you at all, but more concerned with seeing how their build is doing.
Sci ships have their roles, Engineers make great tanks letting those dps hogs do their thing without having to also tank a Tac Cube.
Now are there specific channels in STO that require certain dps amounts to join? Sure, theyre the "elitist" groups, every game has one, and you're not required to play with them.
Ive a rommy with 20% crith n 118% crit sev but ive a fed eng thats a tank his low dps ive all so got a sci with low dps he is about crowd control n healing even when im playing pugs people notice i am all was were im needed, team man ship is the name of the game being a good TEAM player.
Hint if people keep calling u a pug/nOOb maybe ur doing some thing wrong. You might need to google sto +name of mission) guide.
Not many of us out there using the Nebula Retrofit(in my case, both the Fleet and non-Fleet versions)...; in my case, it's with my main Sci player, and I'm more than happy to just serve as a defensive support role, snaring probes with Gravity Well, healing/repairing, etc, etc....
Every now and then, I'll get some serious dps in, though, especially with said Gravity Well followed by a Breen Transphasic Cluster Launcher to the face(or faces) of my target(s)...huge chunk of damage in a hurry there, and it's actually won me a Crystalline Entity Elite STF before.
...in short, just go with what feels most comfortable with you...in my case, I'm MORE than happy to let the Tac vessels go out there and draw all the fir-...er.....attention....
One of the things that players hate the most in WoW was the constant, "let me what DPS you did", "kick him out of our party he is no doing enough DPS", "sorry you cannot join us your build is not DPS enough".
Now this TRIBBLE is crippling into our game, constant worry about DPS is not a good sign for this game, if you want pleasure to be measured about DPS you better provide a blueprint of what is needed to be a good DPSer.
+1 The rise of the moar DPS mantra around here has become really annoying and its gotten more prevalent with a certain group of people going around the forums posting their records and super DPS (yawn) builds. They need to understand that this is not "generic MMO clone" of the month and is indeed a Star Trek game.
These people like to toot their horns and pat each other on the back for being such great pilots lol. What a joke. Please stop posting the DPS numbers in the STF's chat windows. No one cares. Thanks.
The good thing about this game is that you can play it any dang way you want and you can put all of these DPS E-peen strokers on ignore. Yay!
+1 The rise of the moar DPS mantra around here has become really annoying and its gotten more prevalent with a certain group of people going around the forums posting their records and super DPS (yawn) builds. They need to understand that this is not "generic MMO clone" of the month and is indeed a Star Trek game.
These people like to toot their horns and pat each other on the back for being such great pilots lol. What a joke. Please stop posting the DPS numbers in the STF's chat windows. No one cares. Thanks.
The good thing about this game is that you can play it any dang way you want and you can put all of these DPS E-peen strokers on ignore. Yay!
Mantra; be and let them be goes both ways. You don't want to get forced into the dps stuff, don't force them to stop posting. Some want to play for fun and immersion, others play to get the best out of the game as possible.
Oh, don't talk for others with your "no one cares". I'd love to get better, thank you! :P
That's quite the paradox, how could you nerf nerf when the nerf is nerfed. But how would the nerf be nerfed when the nerf is nerfed? This allows the nerf not to be nerfed since the nerf is nerfed? But if the nerf isn't nerfed, it could still nerf nerfs. But as soon as the nerf is nerfed, the nerf power is lost. So paradoxally it the nerf nerf lost its nerf, while it's still nerfed, which cannot be because the nerf was unable to nerf.
Comments
I'm sorry for being a newbie here but what is a gal-r? Cardassian Galor? Galaxy Dreadnaught?
And I would love to somehow see your build please and I would get a kick out of doing a rainbow setup that does decent dmg.
Then again, there is no way to know what kind of dmg I do in this game so I have no clue if I've been playing good for the past 4 years or not lol
There are lots of builds in the Federation Shipyard section of the forum. Just search through some threads there and you will see builds for any Fed ship you want to fly.
Well, in my case, purposely seeking out to fly with ppl I know are 10x the pilot than I am, really is looking for trouble in all the wrong places. :P
It shouldn't occur in a PUG, no. And I don't think Cryptic means to penalize low DPS per se. But their anti-AFK system has to use *some* criteria to make its determinations (like how much DPS you did, relative to the others, for one).
1. Since dps is the only thing that matters in the game at current, yes people will measure it and judge others based on it.
2. There being no to little legit challenge in the game, people are making a challenge to themselves to see how fast they can get STF's done. This of course is done by pushing dps higher and higher.
Cryptic really needs to address the lack of real challenge in the game right now and they need to address the fact that dps is the only thing that matters.
Ya, that happened to me twice : with my scimitar and my rom toon and I was the best of the pug and when , some time ago, I was ... "relaxing" with my human Voyager science toon and, although I was definitely doing more than 1k, this guy ranted about how we were TRIBBLE it up because I and another guy we were not good for playing elite stfs.
The key thing missing there is ... fun . The most important reason you play a game is to have fun. If you are so obsessed about your and others' DPS, you are not having fun, so why are you playing in the first place?
Second is cooperation ... You know that science ships , in general, do less DPS than escorts and cruisers but, still ... I run a dual beam banks Scimitar ( because I like DPS but I also like a challenge and I also like doing ... real damage, you know ) so , when a science ship throws a gravity well at some spheres ( Gravity Well 3, always Gravity Well 3), I don't care what's its DPS, because he's doing me a big favour, since he's lining them up in front of my dual beam banks which can finish the job.
And I also liked it when some guy ... rarely ... threw me a transfer shield strength or some healing ability , probably because he noticed I was pulling most of the weight for the group, which is what I should do if I drive a Scimitar.
That's the spirit and everyone wins.
Anyway, DPS is not the Devil ... I just drive a 18k Scimitar, not so ... "OP" and I am constantly improving myself but the way I see it is that , thanks to my firepower and my leadership, whoever ends up in a ISE PUG with me for example, has got high chances to complete the optional and grind his Omega marks.
If there's some other big hitter like me, it won't be great if I am testing some build lol but , it's ok ... we'll finish sooner.
Of course, you'll never see me ranting at some noob ... if I end up with a team of noobs, well, I'll accept the challenge and do my best and solo the Borg if necessary : I've been a noob too and I've learnt ... eventually he'll learn too
But proper parsing requires checking individual engagements and their parameters. The cruiser with A2FAW, 7 beam arrays and a wide-angle quantum will certainly get his 30+k DPS when permanently firing at 6-7 different things with every volley. But unless they're non-regenerating unshielded nanite generators, the guy with a Gravitorp Spread III, GW I/III and Scatter will probably be killing things a lot more effectively, despite your best moment being a third of that.
Whether the copypasted result some people put up at the end of an STF is of any use depends on how it's calibrated... But the biggest numbers come from skewed methods.
What I was addressing were the DPS snobs who use the parser as an excuse to exclude people and make others feel inferior. Those are the parser-snobs I was pointing at and I think they know who they are.
I apoligize to those others who underservedly may have been offended.
what is ACT? can you supply a link to it please?
I actually would like to see my dps to see if its low and I would like to find some parser thing to improve myself actually.
I dunno of it was the lack of "gamers" or the lack of consoles that uber-boost your DPS at the expense of your eng-sci consoles (most of which were first introduced in the Lobi store and then into the Rep systems) -- point is this was not an issue before S.7 , before the Lobi consoles and before the Romulan rep system .
Nobody Parsed each other in public , we didn't have ridiculous channels sprouting like mushrooms (DPS5000 et.al.) -- and from my perspective , we didn't have a segregation in the playerbase based on DPS (in a game that does not actually need DPS in the first place to get things done).
This came from other games .
This came from the "gamer" mentality . (not to be confused with the PVP mentality)
And , like the OP , I too think that public parsing is a way of getting an ego trip at the expense of your team mates .
And considering how many ppl I carried through the old STF's (when the skill tree was different and almost no one specced into ground) -- I really don't appreciate this trend of players suddenly "judging" other ppl on the basis of how much Lobi they've spent or how pathetically squishy they made their ship just in order to get just a little more DPS in exchange . :rolleyes:
thx
holy TRIBBLE that looks complicated. Is there maybe something easier like a little plugin thing can I just install that shows dps of my group?
Thing with these things though, if someone else is running it, your own results will differ if you run it as the same time, as STOs combat log seems to have a set range (I think it was around 30 Km) of what it tracks around you - so posting parse logs is pointless as the only decent result is that of the person posting.
Unlike WoW, and most other MMO's, STO has a very high learning curve when it comes to effective starship builds. DPS is only one aspect. Yes, its the easiest to track, but so many factors are essential to good dps that gear itself is a low-man on the totem pole of a successful build.
Wow was all about gear. 99% of your damage dealt in WoW is done so in a stationary position. Damage taken in WoW is all encompassing. Without good management in STO, you will not be effective. STO space combat is dynamic and fluid.
I see pugs pull 1-2k dps all the time. I see them die all the time. It's not because the content is hard, its because managing everything a STO starship has to offer, including build, is!
The 10k dps channels are players with effective management skills. Personal leadership that has a lot more to do with decision making than rolling a face across a keyboard.
Ive seen 5-7k control, science heavy builds that neuter STFs, and it dose take skill, timing, and good piloting to do it. I've never seen anyone say those kinds of builds suck in STFs because a good one is a marvel to behold.
Brody
You're about three years behind. the DPS epeen issue in Star Trek Online has existed since the first revamp of STFs when the farming of them began. What HAS happened recently is that because of player power creep (something all MMOs deal with as they get a few years of new gear under their belt) is that you now have same insane player builds (tweaked specifically for one encounter) that can do 30K - 50K DPS where 10K-15K was the 'high mark' previously.
But like I said, power creep is an issue for any MMO that is getting regular updates and has lasted a few years.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
The problem comes when people start thinking that the parser is godlike and infallible, and if it doesn't make the holy number reach higher into heaven, you have performed an unforgivable sin.
It's been said, but I think it's one of those preaching to the choir situations. This game is tuned to where difficulty is only an illusion. It's not built to test a gamers skills and reflexes. Almost any other game I've ever played is a better measure of skill. This game is a Trek fantasyland vacation spot. Trying to turn it into an E-Sport or DPS race or anything other then what it is will lead to disapointment in the end. The thing is, trying to tell that to anybody that is still stuck in the high performance or bust mindset won't see it. I enjoy playing at that level, in games that actually support it, or rather I did before I got old. STO isn't that game.
Parsers are great tools, but playing to one here is only fun till you realize you are only pleasuring yourself...
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
I also wish that you could view a player's currently equipped items and see if you want to deal with him/her. I'm looking at you, guy running 6x Single Cannons on an Odyssey.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
Also DPS doesn't tell the whole story, if someone is doing a lot of dps but it is spread out over targets the team doesn't benefit as much then from someone doing less dps but spiking targets down fast so they aren't shooting at you anymore.
I don't think you need to to set a dps goal, as long as you can guard 4 probes at once in KASE through dps or cc your build is generally of some usefulness in an stf so I don't mind having you in group.
That rainbow destroyer 50km away is popping your probes perfectly well, even while hitting those spheres the generator-guys have been ignoring, but he's not showing up one iota on most parsers, and probably wouldn't have gotten on the team if you could see he's packed the EPW.
Sci ships have their roles, Engineers make great tanks letting those dps hogs do their thing without having to also tank a Tac Cube.
Now are there specific channels in STO that require certain dps amounts to join? Sure, theyre the "elitist" groups, every game has one, and you're not required to play with them.
But...
If I can do enough DPS to get into one, I don't need the group... ... ...
Seems redundant to me...
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
que the people who support DPS meters, gearscore etc.
So many game communities in mmo's have been utterly destroyed by these two things that it should be in every memory of any mmo player of any age.
Hint if people keep calling u a pug/nOOb maybe ur doing some thing wrong. You might need to google sto +name of mission) guide.
Every now and then, I'll get some serious dps in, though, especially with said Gravity Well followed by a Breen Transphasic Cluster Launcher to the face(or faces) of my target(s)...huge chunk of damage in a hurry there, and it's actually won me a Crystalline Entity Elite STF before.
...in short, just go with what feels most comfortable with you...in my case, I'm MORE than happy to let the Tac vessels go out there and draw all the fir-...er.....attention....
I do enough DPS to fly any way I bloody well please =P
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
+1 The rise of the moar DPS mantra around here has become really annoying and its gotten more prevalent with a certain group of people going around the forums posting their records and super DPS (yawn) builds. They need to understand that this is not "generic MMO clone" of the month and is indeed a Star Trek game.
These people like to toot their horns and pat each other on the back for being such great pilots lol. What a joke. Please stop posting the DPS numbers in the STF's chat windows. No one cares. Thanks.
The good thing about this game is that you can play it any dang way you want and you can put all of these DPS E-peen strokers on ignore. Yay!
"LOOK AT IT! LOOK AT MY E-PEEN! BASK IN ITS GLORY!"
Oh, don't talk for others with your "no one cares". I'd love to get better, thank you! :P
I call it, the Stoutes paradox.