Dude, your glasses are huuge. Are you Elvis or John Lennon?
Tyr shall give me strength! For the glory of Tempus! I am the hands of Shar! Flames of Kossuth, protect me! Oghma, grant me knowledge! Lolth commands, and I obey!
Give me a reason to venture into pvp, to put up with p2w/grind2win, the one hit kos, ect by providing a huge reward for putting up with it like kerrat does
even then, its unlikely I'd do it unless bored/suicidal but a hefty reward might help grease the wheels, so to speak
I tried the PVP mission that is given to us under available missions and it was I got with my ship to the place, we started taking control of the points, KDF uncloaked, 1, 2, 3 shots me dead, respawned, KDF ship waiting at the respawn point, 1,2 dead, respawn, 1,2 dead rinse and repeat, Bye.
No offence intended here, but this video is comedy gold. At first i actually thought it was just a wind up.
Are you for real with those glasses? Holier than thou? Lol.
Seeing as you were part of the REAL paintball scene though i had best listen close. My 13 years in the army and 5 Middle East tours must pale in comparison.
I'm not trying to start a flame here, but people should think a little bit more before making any kind of video that will be aired on social media, especially a well know flame bait game forum such as this one.
WTF has paintball got to do with ground PVP? Its like me saying that my combat experience will help me better use my future space abilities to kill animated sprites on a screen. Its ridiculous.
The fact that you are trying so hard to look and sound like some kind of badass, makes it even more ridiculous. That vest?
How you thought this video would make people want to play ground pvp, i honestly have no idea.
" Experience is a hard mistress, she gives the tests first, and the lessons after... "
3. There is 50k or more expertise a pop incentive.
Oh my, that would be amazingly useful.
Not skill points, but 50k expertise would be great. Seriously, I think the only reason they don't give people (especially new players/toons) more expertise is because it's yet another grind. Wouldn't surprise me if that is the true reason they got rid of Mirror.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
It is for the casual players that I lean towards. Make you voices heard.
Very well...I pvp'ed quite a lot on other MMOs. Was very skilled at it, but had only B+/A- gear because I didn't want to do ridiculous time-sink things like win the fishing tournament only offered on Sundays to gain a stupid, 1 drop per week, fishing hat that suddenly made me a superbeing among digital pvp constructs. Eventually, I had an epiphany when an opposing player, of no real skill, stopped fighting me and just stood there, resplendent in his black-jeweled battle shorts and other incredibly rare gear, and let me whack on him for a minute without his health meter dropping more than 10% before recovering. That is NOT player vs. player. That is PvG, player vs. gear, and I won't waste my time with that. :mad:
You want a real pvp challenge? I've said it before and in multiple MMOs: set up a "locker room" before the pvp instance, give every class 3 universal sets of class gear, mix and match, and with the ability to save your configuration for rapid exchange. The locker room stores all PvE elite gear, devices, and anything unique, until you leave PvP. At that point, everything is equal, every player has the same gear choices as every other, PvG is dead, and skill has become king of the PvP hill.
When that happens, I'll face you in honorable combat. To the pain. :cool:
No offence intended here, but this video is comedy gold. At first i actually thought it was just a wind up.
Are you for real with those glasses? Holier than thou? Lol.
Seeing as you were part of the REAL paintball scene though i had best listen close. My 13 years in the army and 5 Middle East tours must pale in comparison.
I'm not trying to start a flame here, but people should think a little bit more before making any kind of video that will be aired on social media, especially a well know flame bait game forum such as this one.
WTF has paintball got to do with ground PVP? Its like me saying that my combat experience will help me better use my future space abilities to kill animated sprites on a screen. Its ridiculous.
The fact that you are trying so hard to look and sound like some kind of badass, makes it even more ridiculous. That vest?
How you thought this video would make people want to play ground pvp, i honestly have no idea.
Hear hear! Quoted for more truth than should be allowed by the FDA.
Put simply, ground in this game is very clunky and if I wanted to go around shooting people I would play a game where skill gets every kill not some broken mechanic or dropping in on someone halfway through several animation cycles and incapable of reacting.
Then there's the paid for advantages, I'll let majortiraomega go into the hirogen ground armours brokenly powerful special.
next time mister moderator, just hit the delete thread button, not the move button.
Seriously! When I started reading this thread, nearly every reply I could come up with to nearly every post, was bannable. Moving this thread will just add fuel to the PvPers v PvEers war.
Honestly, you did yourself and your cause little service by appearing in your video. But my biggest criticism is that at the 1:00 minute mark, you proclaimed that playing paintball and sports gives you special knowledge that all PvEers lack. You essentially set yourself up as an expert, while strawmanning the PvE community, as if they are all basement dwelling urchins.
I know a guy who fought in Iraq and plays CoD/BF. By your logic this guy would be able to take real world tactics and apply it to these games. But this guy barely breaks even in K/D most matches. He says that one experience does not even remotely prepare you for the other because the tactics are entirely different.
Had you demonstrated your expertise by intercutting paintball with your PvP leet moves, maybe I'd see a connection. But unless you have a helicopter hovering above waiting to drop a massive paintball (ouch) as an orbital strike, there is literally no comparison.
The rest of your video offered little in the way of tactics - run away, get behind cover, don't die. You spent the rest of your time (80% of it) decrying the lamestream ground PvP community.
I'll echo what others have said, unless they give an incentive so that people will still feel like they accomplish something for being vaped/ganked/steamrolled, there will be no increase to the PvP playerbase. I think you should take your passion for getting others involved in PvP and shift focus to figuring out how to make it both accessible to players and profitable for the company. And sadly for you, the backlash your posts receive give devs evidence to point at for not committing resources to PvP development.
Ironically, your repeated posts have likely created a net loss of any interest in PvP received recently from related dev blogs.
Seriously! When I started reading this thread, nearly every reply I could come up with to nearly every post, was bannable. Moving this thread will just add fuel to the PvPers v PvEers war.
you have no idea how much restrain it took to just type what i did. or maybe you do
Put simply, ground in this game is very clunky and if I wanted to go around shooting people I would play a game where skill gets every kill not some broken mechanic or dropping in on someone halfway through several animation cycles and incapable of reacting.
Then there's the paid for advantages, I'll let majortiraomega go into the hirogen ground armours brokenly powerful special.
There is nothing brokenly powerful about it, it simply gives you 20 seconds every 80 seconds that you can can see a stealthed player anywhere on the map.
Ok so for 20 seconds he is in the same boat as all the regular non cheese using players in the match. I don't get how you consider this OP. Its only OP for people who like to one shot people from stealth and cant do it quite as easily now. This Hirogen armour thing is pathetic and really starting to get on my nerves. Basically one cheese stealth player started another whinge about something that might hinder his one shot killing of people that makes him feel great about himself. Get over the fact its a 'perfect' stealth detection. Its perfect stealth detection that does not come without some sacrifices, its not perfect one shot killing or a perfect instant orbital bombardment. It affects one small niche of the players that love to abuse a specific mechanic. Now they can't as easily. Sick of people throwing around this word 'perfect' like it cant be allowed on anything. It needs to be contextual, and in this case it is and its fine.
Teamwork orientated my TRIBBLE. All PVP in STO, is pure and simple mechanic abuse combined with one person telling everyone who to attack. Its hardly teamwork. Its one person spamming something, usually an abused power combined with loads of cheesefilled doffs, that makes people vulnerable, and the others focusing on that person. 'Teamwork' in the loosest fashion. Maybe some dude healing if needed because the other team is decent. Harping on about how it is the epitomy of 'teamwork'. Nearly any party based game i can think of involves more teamwork than STO, in either PVP or PVE.
A lot of hardcore PVP'ers on this game who cant admit that PVP is almost non existent, mainly because they themselves invest so much effort and interest into it. They want it to be so much, but its just not. Cryptic doesn't touch it, for good reason. Probably because, half the community involved in it are a gang of immature egotistic try hards, that love to talk trash about how great they are, until the rare moments someone from a premade gets taken down, then its not their fault its anything else but them. Their ego's cant handle it, because then they can't come to the forum talking TRIBBLE and jokes that no one else gets, or reminiscing about some hapless dude they killed in Kerrat with all their other no life pvp buddies, all patting each other on the back. Lol.
Prime example is this: End of a match. If a premade did a number on the pug or other semi premade group, then its GG everywhere. If the premade died a few times or struggled to win, or god forbid they LOST. You either get no comms at all or one of them will start whining about some cheese power that was used to kill them, or how someone is pay 2 win. Its pathetic.
A lot of PVP'ers whine at PVE'ers because PVE is too easy in this game. Yes it is. We know this. Its still more enjoyable than PVP. Don't worry we aren't 'missing out' on the best aspect of the game. Far from it.
I know this ended up being a rant, but i honestly dont really give a ****. No doubt first comment will be some pvper, letting off some cool one liner he perceives to be a cutting remark to boost his kudos with the other pvper's who endlessly stalk these forums.
Enjoy.
" Experience is a hard mistress, she gives the tests first, and the lessons after... "
There is nothing brokenly powerful about it, it simply gives you 20 seconds every 80 seconds that you can can see a stealthed player anywhere on the map.
Ok so for 20 seconds he is in the same boat as all the regular non cheese using players in the match. I don't get how you consider this OP. Its only OP for people who like to one shot people from stealth and cant do it quite as easily now. This Hirogen armour thing is pathetic and really starting to get on my nerves. Basically one cheese stealth player started another whinge about something that might hinder his one shot killing of people that makes him feel great about himself. Get over the fact its a 'perfect' stealth detection. Its perfect stealth detection that does not come without some sacrifices, its not perfect one shot killing or a perfect instant orbital bombardment. It affects one small niche of the players that love to abuse a specific mechanic. Now they can't as easily. Sick of people throwing around this word 'perfect' like it cant be allowed on anything. It needs to be contextual, and in this case it is and its fine.
Teamwork orientated my TRIBBLE. All PVP in STO, is pure and simple mechanic abuse combined with one person telling everyone who to attack. Its hardly teamwork. Its one person spamming something, usually an abused power combined with loads of cheesefilled doffs, that makes people vulnerable, and the others focusing on that person. 'Teamwork' in the loosest fashion. Maybe some dude healing if needed because the other team is decent. Harping on about how it is the epitomy of 'teamwork'. Nearly any party based game i can think of involves more teamwork than STO, in either PVP or PVE.
A lot of hardcore PVP'ers on this game who cant admit that PVP is almost non existent, mainly because they themselves invest so much effort and interest into it. They want it to be so much, but its just not. Cryptic doesn't touch it, for good reason. Probably because, half the community involved in it are a gang of immature egotistic try hards, that love to talk trash about how great they are, until the rare moments someone from a premade gets taken down, then its not their fault its anything else but them. Their ego's cant handle it, because then they can't come to the forum talking TRIBBLE and jokes that no one else gets, or reminiscing about some hapless dude they killed in Kerrat with all their other no life pvp buddies, all patting each other on the back. Lol.
Prime example is this: End of a match. If a premade did a number on the pug or other semi premade group, then its GG everywhere. If the premade died a few times or struggled to win, or god forbid they LOST. You either get no comms at all or one of them will start whining about some cheese power that was used to kill them, or how someone is pay 2 win. Its pathetic.
A lot of PVP'ers whine at PVE'ers because PVE is too easy in this game. Yes it is. We know this. Its still more enjoyable than PVP. Don't worry we aren't 'missing out' on the best aspect of the game. Far from it.
I know this ended up being a rant, but i honestly dont really give a ****. No doubt first comment will be some pvper, letting off some cool one liner he perceives to be a cutting remark to boost his kudos with the other pvper's who endlessly stalk these forums.
Enjoy.
Huh? Where did that come from?
The armour was OP because it could be kept up indefinitely with tactical initiative, I believe it is or will be changed to be only up 25% of the time, even though I do not PvP at all it doesn't take a genius to tell that seeing someone across the entire map is OP.
I mean can you imagine if sensor scan or the tachyon grid allowed this in space? The forums would be soaked in the salty tears of Romulans and Klingons.
Originally, when I started to play Star Trek Online, I was attracted to the Ground and Space portions equally. I liked the idea of ducking around corners with a Phaser rifle, and taking other people out. Even with my inexperience and usual clumsyness when it comes to shooters.
After about 3 Months in the game I found the PVE to be repetative and boring. Same with the Stories. So I tried to turn to PVP. How ever, in the PVP I found something that surprised me. But not in a good way. I knew that Tactical on the ground would be the norm, but I never expected Engineer and Sci to almost not be even capable of countering Tac. Then I learned more about Sci, and Sci did show that it could take damage and almost become unkillable. Engineer how ever just didn't feel like it could fit on the ground. While at the time, in Space, Engineer actually felt like it could Tank and Deal damage in a respectable way.
Fast foward 4 years, Tac is still pretty much the same. Sci still can tank, but not to the way it was before. And Engineer now seems capable of dealing damage, and it can even absorb damage. So on the ground it is an improvement. But its still got over bloated damage. The Term power creep also gets thrown around alot. But to be honest, its true.
PVPers ask for balance, because when it comes to a Player vs Player Experience, you really don't want one class, weapon, skill, or anything else to be the number 1 tool to use, or the feeling that if you don't have X, Y, Z you will always lose.
Players who focus primarly on PVE wouldn't want to have to face enemies that do similar things that a player is capable of. They also want to face enemies that can be beaten. But also want a challange with out dealing with the dramatic BS that can come with PVP. How ever PVE gets predicitable.
Yet, PVP is also prediciable when we only have 3 maps to play in. I'm hoping that the Hirogen Lockbox, and the Small vessel PVP will be just the first of the new PVP Improvements they are looking to provide, and I hope they continue to invest in PVP. Because while PVE does have its moments of fun, PVP needs a definitely breath of fresh air.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
The armour was OP because it could be kept up indefinitely with tactical initiative, I believe it is or will be changed to be only up 25% of the time, even though I do not PvP at all it doesn't take a genius to tell that seeing someone across the entire map is OP.
I mean can you imagine if sensor scan or the tachyon grid allowed this in space? The forums would be soaked in the salty tears of Romulans and Klingons.
At the moment, yes, it can be kept up with 100% uptime via Tactical Initiative. The developers plan to make the cooldown immune to reduciton, which would make it a 25% uptime. However, there are 5 players on a team, this is not really an issue considering how powerful the armor is even without the special ability.
Stealth Detection was made out of hand to counter Stealth that could reach high levels. It is difficult, but not impossible, to detect a player without the Hirogen Armor. You are also correct, if this set were in space, it would have been reverted within a week. Yet it's not and there are many people on the forums that don't care about balance. If they had their way, stealth would be worthless in space and ground when it comes to PvP. I made this post here outlining six things that need to happen in order to bring stealth/counter stealth back into line in terms of PvP: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=14897981&postcount=56
Nothing came of it now, I'll try again in a few weeks when the "newness" of the armor was worn off a bit. Who knows, Cryptic might be more open to suggestions with the upcoming kit revamp. It take patience getting mechanics balanced, but it's worthwhile in the end.
At the moment, yes, it can be kept up with 100% uptime via Tactical Initiative. The developers plan to make the cooldown immune to reduciton, which would make it a 25% uptime. However, there are 5 players on a team, this is not really an issue considering how powerful the armor is even without the special ability.
Stealth Detection was made out of hand to counter Stealth that could reach high levels. It is difficult, but not impossible, to detect a player without the Hirogen Armor. You are also correct, if this set were in space, it would have been reverted within a week. Yet it's not and there are many people on the forums that don't care about balance. If they had their way, stealth would be worthless in space and ground when it comes to PvP. I made this post here outlining six things that need to happen in order to bring stealth/counter stealth back into line in terms of PvP: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=14897981&postcount=56
Nothing came of it now, I'll try again in a few weeks when the "newness" of the armor was worn off a bit. Who knows, Cryptic might be more open to suggestions with the upcoming kit revamp. It take patience getting mechanics balanced, but it's worthwhile in the end.
Look here he is again. The armour doesnt make stealth worthless, it just makes it not an always 'iwin' against noob button. Deal with it.
" Experience is a hard mistress, she gives the tests first, and the lessons after... "
Look here he is again. The armour doesnt make stealth worthless, it just makes it not an always 'iwin' against noob button. Deal with it.
It actually does make stealth worthless when in play. You'd know that if you actually set foot in Ground PvP. Between this and shattering, it's stupid easy to detect cloaked players now, no skill required. At least someone buying this way to win item has to shell out a minimum of 10 million energy credits or 5 USD to get the armor.
It actually does make stealth worthless when in play. You'd know that if you actually set foot in Ground PvP. Between this and shattering, it's stupid easy to detect cloaked players now, no skill required. At least someone buying this way to win item has to shell out a minimum of 10 million energy credits or 5 USD to get the armor.
Even as someone who isn't a big ground PvPer of course, I completely agree with it.
Eliminating a style of play isn't good at all for balance. Heck, you could almost argue it eliminates two styles: Stealthing and snooping. Why waste your silly time with Tricorder Scans or stealth debuffs when this single armor will do it way better for no skill needed?
I shudder about them doing the same thing in space. A universal console that gives 2,000 SDR or something, wouldn't even need anything else. But there you do, boom, that much SDR and that kills any form of cloaking outright in space. No other snooping or effort required, just click and see everyone around you.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Even as someone who isn't a big ground PvPer of course, I completely agree with it.
Eliminating a style of play isn't good at all for balance. Heck, you could almost argue it eliminates two styles: Stealthing and snooping. Why waste your silly time with Tricorder Scans or stealth debuffs when this single armor will do it way better for no skill needed?
I shudder about them doing the same thing in space. A universal console that gives 2,000 SDR or something, wouldn't even need anything else. But there you do, boom, that much SDR and that kills any form of cloaking outright in space. No other snooping or effort required, just click and see everyone around you.
Yes because cloaking on ground is such skillful play. :eyeroll: back before covert was fixed no one cloaked hardly since you couldn't get the value much above base. You could get closer yea but not much past 5m if that. There were no pulse waves then either. Fix covert, give a high spike damage close range weapon, instant trololol.
As I've said before, it's still possible to sit at 0m and not be detected. Why is it ok for that to be possible but an armor set that let's you see the cloaked player for 20 seconds while imposing the same run speed debuff a cloaked player has isn't? 612 stealth can't be seen unless the tricorder scanning sci has a gamma tribble up too and then they probably won't be able to lock on. Even taking both perception traits on a sci doesn't give much detection help. What if it did? What if tric scan let you see the cloaked player from 10m or so out? NERF tric scan because I can't gank the distracted player!!
Ffs. Gimme a break from the crying about this armor. You won't here me complain about something that makes for more intriguing games then tapping my fingers waiting for the cloaker to decide to do something.
Yes because cloaking on ground is such skillful play. :eyeroll: back before covert was fixed no one cloaked hardly since you couldn't get the value much above base. You could get closer yea but not much past 5m if that. There were no pulse waves then either. Fix covert, give a high spike damage close range weapon, instant trololol.
As I've said before, it's still possible to sit at 0m and not be detected. Why is it ok for that to be possible but an armor set that let's you see the cloaked player for 20 seconds while imposing the same run speed debuff a cloaked player has isn't? 612 stealth can't be seen unless the tricorder scanning sci has a gamma tribble up too and then they probably won't be able to lock on. Even taking both perception traits on a sci doesn't give much detection help. What if it did? What if tric scan let you see the cloaked player from 10m or so out? NERF tric scan because I can't gank the distracted player!!
I'm of the opinion that the following needs to happen in order to bring balance back to stealth and counter stealth:
The Hirogen Hunter Sight ability's perception buff decreased to +100 down from +500.
The Shattering Harmonics perception buff decreased to +250 perception.
Target Optics and Tricorder Scan both need to start off at +50 perception and scale upward to +100 via nine ranks in their relevant commander level skill.
Target Optics needs a -50 to -100 (based on skill points) stealth to all targets within an 8 meter sphere.
Acute Senses and Limited Telepathy both need to be increased to +20 or +30 perception.
The Omega Distortion Field needs to be changed so that the stealth bonus is only temporarily broken for the duration of any attack that activates a warning animation.
It is pretty safe to that that almost everyone in Ground PvP would be more than happy with those changes.
Yes because cloaking on ground is such skillful play. :eyeroll: back before covert was fixed no one cloaked hardly since you couldn't get the value much above base. You could get closer yea but not much past 5m if that. There were no pulse waves then either. Fix covert, give a high spike damage close range weapon, instant trololol.
As I've said before, it's still possible to sit at 0m and not be detected. Why is it ok for that to be possible but an armor set that let's you see the cloaked player for 20 seconds while imposing the same run speed debuff a cloaked player has isn't? 612 stealth can't be seen unless the tricorder scanning sci has a gamma tribble up too and then they probably won't be able to lock on. Even taking both perception traits on a sci doesn't give much detection help. What if it did? What if tric scan let you see the cloaked player from 10m or so out? NERF tric scan because I can't gank the distracted player!!
Ffs. Gimme a break from the crying about this armor. You won't here me complain about something that makes for more intriguing games then tapping my fingers waiting for the cloaker to decide to do something.
Again, not the most knowledgable about ground and the like.
I understand not everyone likes cloaking, but to maybe help make my point a bit more clear:
The armor we can argue about all day and how this affects things. My bigger worry is what this might set a precedence for. Huge buffs, which kill a certain thing completely just because it is THAT good of a counter or something.
Forgive the overusage of the term, but...doesn't that really make this kind of stuff real 'p2w'? I mean, I'd be glad to be wrong, but did anyone expect to ever see something like this? Even without the perception bonus, it's a really really good armor by itself.
Sure it might 'only' be cloaking right now, but what will happen next time? I'm not trying to fearmonger here. They've done things we've never thought they would do for good and for ill, anymore I wouldn't put it past em to do more stuff like this. And not just for ground either.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
I'm not trying to fearmonger here. They've done things we've never thought they would do for good and for ill, anymore I wouldn't put it past em to do more stuff like this. And not just for ground either.
It's a bad slope to start down.
Funny, I said the exact same thing the other day. Everyone was too busy with the "OMG Nerf cloak" comments to get around to talking about that unfortunately...
Comments
For the glory of Tempus!
I am the hands of Shar!
Flames of Kossuth, protect me!
Oghma, grant me knowledge!
Lolth commands, and I obey!
even then, its unlikely I'd do it unless bored/suicidal but a hefty reward might help grease the wheels, so to speak
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Of course not.
Just like the OP's previous "sheep, you too can enter the slaughterhouse" thread wasn't such an attempt.
OP: Here's an option + info if any PvE'ers are interested in doing Ground.
Thread posters: But I don't wanna!
-.-
OK....so don't.
Are you for real with those glasses? Holier than thou? Lol.
Seeing as you were part of the REAL paintball scene though i had best listen close. My 13 years in the army and 5 Middle East tours must pale in comparison.
I'm not trying to start a flame here, but people should think a little bit more before making any kind of video that will be aired on social media, especially a well know flame bait game forum such as this one.
WTF has paintball got to do with ground PVP? Its like me saying that my combat experience will help me better use my future space abilities to kill animated sprites on a screen. Its ridiculous.
The fact that you are trying so hard to look and sound like some kind of badass, makes it even more ridiculous. That vest?
How you thought this video would make people want to play ground pvp, i honestly have no idea.
Oh my, that would be amazingly useful.
Not skill points, but 50k expertise would be great. Seriously, I think the only reason they don't give people (especially new players/toons) more expertise is because it's yet another grind. Wouldn't surprise me if that is the true reason they got rid of Mirror.
Very well...I pvp'ed quite a lot on other MMOs. Was very skilled at it, but had only B+/A- gear because I didn't want to do ridiculous time-sink things like win the fishing tournament only offered on Sundays to gain a stupid, 1 drop per week, fishing hat that suddenly made me a superbeing among digital pvp constructs. Eventually, I had an epiphany when an opposing player, of no real skill, stopped fighting me and just stood there, resplendent in his black-jeweled battle shorts and other incredibly rare gear, and let me whack on him for a minute without his health meter dropping more than 10% before recovering. That is NOT player vs. player. That is PvG, player vs. gear, and I won't waste my time with that. :mad:
You want a real pvp challenge? I've said it before and in multiple MMOs: set up a "locker room" before the pvp instance, give every class 3 universal sets of class gear, mix and match, and with the ability to save your configuration for rapid exchange. The locker room stores all PvE elite gear, devices, and anything unique, until you leave PvP. At that point, everything is equal, every player has the same gear choices as every other, PvG is dead, and skill has become king of the PvP hill.
When that happens, I'll face you in honorable combat. To the pain. :cool:
If you are good at that ill let you off for those glasses. PVP in STO is just mechanic abuse. Pure and simple.
"oh no wait, you need someone to call targets, thats teamwork" Errr, yeah. Sure it is.
Hear hear! Quoted for more truth than should be allowed by the FDA.
I want those things as well.
Visit my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/Akurie369?feature=watch
Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
Then there's the paid for advantages, I'll let majortiraomega go into the hirogen ground armours brokenly powerful special.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Seriously! When I started reading this thread, nearly every reply I could come up with to nearly every post, was bannable. Moving this thread will just add fuel to the PvPers v PvEers war.
Honestly, you did yourself and your cause little service by appearing in your video. But my biggest criticism is that at the 1:00 minute mark, you proclaimed that playing paintball and sports gives you special knowledge that all PvEers lack. You essentially set yourself up as an expert, while strawmanning the PvE community, as if they are all basement dwelling urchins.
I know a guy who fought in Iraq and plays CoD/BF. By your logic this guy would be able to take real world tactics and apply it to these games. But this guy barely breaks even in K/D most matches. He says that one experience does not even remotely prepare you for the other because the tactics are entirely different.
Had you demonstrated your expertise by intercutting paintball with your PvP leet moves, maybe I'd see a connection. But unless you have a helicopter hovering above waiting to drop a massive paintball (ouch) as an orbital strike, there is literally no comparison.
The rest of your video offered little in the way of tactics - run away, get behind cover, don't die. You spent the rest of your time (80% of it) decrying the lamestream ground PvP community.
I'll echo what others have said, unless they give an incentive so that people will still feel like they accomplish something for being vaped/ganked/steamrolled, there will be no increase to the PvP playerbase. I think you should take your passion for getting others involved in PvP and shift focus to figuring out how to make it both accessible to players and profitable for the company. And sadly for you, the backlash your posts receive give devs evidence to point at for not committing resources to PvP development.
Ironically, your repeated posts have likely created a net loss of any interest in PvP received recently from related dev blogs.
you have no idea how much restrain it took to just type what i did. or maybe you do
LOL, bullseye
Holy Grail of Gamification is Addiction | 5 Ways to Accomplisch | and the Psychology of Freemium
There is nothing brokenly powerful about it, it simply gives you 20 seconds every 80 seconds that you can can see a stealthed player anywhere on the map.
Ok so for 20 seconds he is in the same boat as all the regular non cheese using players in the match. I don't get how you consider this OP. Its only OP for people who like to one shot people from stealth and cant do it quite as easily now. This Hirogen armour thing is pathetic and really starting to get on my nerves. Basically one cheese stealth player started another whinge about something that might hinder his one shot killing of people that makes him feel great about himself. Get over the fact its a 'perfect' stealth detection. Its perfect stealth detection that does not come without some sacrifices, its not perfect one shot killing or a perfect instant orbital bombardment. It affects one small niche of the players that love to abuse a specific mechanic. Now they can't as easily. Sick of people throwing around this word 'perfect' like it cant be allowed on anything. It needs to be contextual, and in this case it is and its fine.
Teamwork orientated my TRIBBLE. All PVP in STO, is pure and simple mechanic abuse combined with one person telling everyone who to attack. Its hardly teamwork. Its one person spamming something, usually an abused power combined with loads of cheesefilled doffs, that makes people vulnerable, and the others focusing on that person. 'Teamwork' in the loosest fashion. Maybe some dude healing if needed because the other team is decent. Harping on about how it is the epitomy of 'teamwork'. Nearly any party based game i can think of involves more teamwork than STO, in either PVP or PVE.
A lot of hardcore PVP'ers on this game who cant admit that PVP is almost non existent, mainly because they themselves invest so much effort and interest into it. They want it to be so much, but its just not. Cryptic doesn't touch it, for good reason. Probably because, half the community involved in it are a gang of immature egotistic try hards, that love to talk trash about how great they are, until the rare moments someone from a premade gets taken down, then its not their fault its anything else but them. Their ego's cant handle it, because then they can't come to the forum talking TRIBBLE and jokes that no one else gets, or reminiscing about some hapless dude they killed in Kerrat with all their other no life pvp buddies, all patting each other on the back. Lol.
Prime example is this: End of a match. If a premade did a number on the pug or other semi premade group, then its GG everywhere. If the premade died a few times or struggled to win, or god forbid they LOST. You either get no comms at all or one of them will start whining about some cheese power that was used to kill them, or how someone is pay 2 win. Its pathetic.
A lot of PVP'ers whine at PVE'ers because PVE is too easy in this game. Yes it is. We know this. Its still more enjoyable than PVP. Don't worry we aren't 'missing out' on the best aspect of the game. Far from it.
I know this ended up being a rant, but i honestly dont really give a ****. No doubt first comment will be some pvper, letting off some cool one liner he perceives to be a cutting remark to boost his kudos with the other pvper's who endlessly stalk these forums.
Enjoy.
Huh? Where did that come from?
The armour was OP because it could be kept up indefinitely with tactical initiative, I believe it is or will be changed to be only up 25% of the time, even though I do not PvP at all it doesn't take a genius to tell that seeing someone across the entire map is OP.
I mean can you imagine if sensor scan or the tachyon grid allowed this in space? The forums would be soaked in the salty tears of Romulans and Klingons.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
After about 3 Months in the game I found the PVE to be repetative and boring. Same with the Stories. So I tried to turn to PVP. How ever, in the PVP I found something that surprised me. But not in a good way. I knew that Tactical on the ground would be the norm, but I never expected Engineer and Sci to almost not be even capable of countering Tac. Then I learned more about Sci, and Sci did show that it could take damage and almost become unkillable. Engineer how ever just didn't feel like it could fit on the ground. While at the time, in Space, Engineer actually felt like it could Tank and Deal damage in a respectable way.
Fast foward 4 years, Tac is still pretty much the same. Sci still can tank, but not to the way it was before. And Engineer now seems capable of dealing damage, and it can even absorb damage. So on the ground it is an improvement. But its still got over bloated damage. The Term power creep also gets thrown around alot. But to be honest, its true.
PVPers ask for balance, because when it comes to a Player vs Player Experience, you really don't want one class, weapon, skill, or anything else to be the number 1 tool to use, or the feeling that if you don't have X, Y, Z you will always lose.
Players who focus primarly on PVE wouldn't want to have to face enemies that do similar things that a player is capable of. They also want to face enemies that can be beaten. But also want a challange with out dealing with the dramatic BS that can come with PVP. How ever PVE gets predicitable.
Yet, PVP is also prediciable when we only have 3 maps to play in. I'm hoping that the Hirogen Lockbox, and the Small vessel PVP will be just the first of the new PVP Improvements they are looking to provide, and I hope they continue to invest in PVP. Because while PVE does have its moments of fun, PVP needs a definitely breath of fresh air.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
At the moment, yes, it can be kept up with 100% uptime via Tactical Initiative. The developers plan to make the cooldown immune to reduciton, which would make it a 25% uptime. However, there are 5 players on a team, this is not really an issue considering how powerful the armor is even without the special ability.
Stealth Detection was made out of hand to counter Stealth that could reach high levels. It is difficult, but not impossible, to detect a player without the Hirogen Armor. You are also correct, if this set were in space, it would have been reverted within a week. Yet it's not and there are many people on the forums that don't care about balance. If they had their way, stealth would be worthless in space and ground when it comes to PvP. I made this post here outlining six things that need to happen in order to bring stealth/counter stealth back into line in terms of PvP: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=14897981&postcount=56
Nothing came of it now, I'll try again in a few weeks when the "newness" of the armor was worn off a bit. Who knows, Cryptic might be more open to suggestions with the upcoming kit revamp. It take patience getting mechanics balanced, but it's worthwhile in the end.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Look here he is again. The armour doesnt make stealth worthless, it just makes it not an always 'iwin' against noob button. Deal with it.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Even as someone who isn't a big ground PvPer of course, I completely agree with it.
Eliminating a style of play isn't good at all for balance. Heck, you could almost argue it eliminates two styles: Stealthing and snooping. Why waste your silly time with Tricorder Scans or stealth debuffs when this single armor will do it way better for no skill needed?
I shudder about them doing the same thing in space. A universal console that gives 2,000 SDR or something, wouldn't even need anything else. But there you do, boom, that much SDR and that kills any form of cloaking outright in space. No other snooping or effort required, just click and see everyone around you.
As I've said before, it's still possible to sit at 0m and not be detected. Why is it ok for that to be possible but an armor set that let's you see the cloaked player for 20 seconds while imposing the same run speed debuff a cloaked player has isn't? 612 stealth can't be seen unless the tricorder scanning sci has a gamma tribble up too and then they probably won't be able to lock on. Even taking both perception traits on a sci doesn't give much detection help. What if it did? What if tric scan let you see the cloaked player from 10m or so out? NERF tric scan because I can't gank the distracted player!!
Ffs. Gimme a break from the crying about this armor. You won't here me complain about something that makes for more intriguing games then tapping my fingers waiting for the cloaker to decide to do something.
Vanilla Ground PvP information
I'm of the opinion that the following needs to happen in order to bring balance back to stealth and counter stealth:
It is pretty safe to that that almost everyone in Ground PvP would be more than happy with those changes.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Again, not the most knowledgable about ground and the like.
I understand not everyone likes cloaking, but to maybe help make my point a bit more clear:
The armor we can argue about all day and how this affects things. My bigger worry is what this might set a precedence for. Huge buffs, which kill a certain thing completely just because it is THAT good of a counter or something.
Forgive the overusage of the term, but...doesn't that really make this kind of stuff real 'p2w'? I mean, I'd be glad to be wrong, but did anyone expect to ever see something like this? Even without the perception bonus, it's a really really good armor by itself.
Sure it might 'only' be cloaking right now, but what will happen next time? I'm not trying to fearmonger here. They've done things we've never thought they would do for good and for ill, anymore I wouldn't put it past em to do more stuff like this. And not just for ground either.
It's a bad slope to start down.
Funny, I said the exact same thing the other day. Everyone was too busy with the "OMG Nerf cloak" comments to get around to talking about that unfortunately...
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)