For Heaven's Sake. This is a science ship, with an added little fun mode for some extra oomph. It isn't a Tac ship. There's 40 bazillion* other Tac ships available for all 3 factions. If you want a tac ship all the time, here's an idea, FLY A TAC SHIP.
Honestly.
*A bit of hyperbole. It's really only 2.5 bazillion.
Indeed, I didn't get it for a tac ship, I got to playwith science ability stuff in combat.
But I do get some laughs out of people who, after already testing it in the FE... went and plopped money on it expecting it to Tac well. The specs were documented, test drive for it was given.... this is most certainly a case of Caveat Emptor, they had plenty of prior knowledge given to make an informed decision.... that they seem to not have done so is ultimately, IMO, their problem.
Indeed, I didn't get it for a tac ship, I got to playwith science ability stuff in combat.
But I do get some laughs out of people who, after already testing it in the FE... went and plopped money on it expecting it to Tac well. The specs were documented, test drive for it was given.... this is most certainly a case of Caveat Emptor, they had plenty of prior knowledge given to make an informed decision.... that they seem to not have done so is ultimately, IMO, their problem.
If you use Antiproton, it can be both......
And do so very well. Ive killed people in ker'rat with this thing with Tac mode decloaking alphas, granted, a GW was thrown in too....
I'd like the the option to select the default mode myself. My preference and build makes Destroyer mode my preferred mode for this ship. But what I've seen is the Science mode is the default. If there is a a map change the ship defaults to science mode and does not retain destroyer mode. While not overly critical the way the game is structured, but still annoying.
i would like to point out that you CAN (kinda)do this. There is no CD going from sci to tac.
So you just start in sci, you can still use APA, and Fire on my mark. you just cant use CRF3 or CSV3...or APO3....
But if you start in Sci mode
Decloak, GW3, TB2, move to tac mode, CRF3, TS2, fire on my mark3, APA......
Indeed, in my BOFF Layout on mine I've loaded the CDR SCI station with AoE abilities..... a mostly to slow or root..... approach cloaked (I fly a rom one), decloak pop off AoE sci like GW3, swap to tac, and pound with the DHC's combined with a Torp spead romulan Hyperplama, there will be few NPC's left, at least on the non eSTF maps..... STF's not too good, vessel doesn't really tank well nor put out enough DPS against elite targets. Most of that is due to not really being able to boost the DHC... you either heavilly boost a regular weapon set and not boost the built in DHC, or boost the DHC moderately and moderate boosting of other weaspons using Dyson tac consoles. So it's not really a built for eSTF's to get it done quick.
But then people are always complaining how eSTF's are too easy, and it can be fun to take non-optimized ships into pugs for a spin now and then just for the challenge. I have this ship on my Rom Tac, and she's T5 on all reps, so mostly anything she is doing is for fleet building.... no need to max out Mark rewards, and challenging oneself in combat helps improve the skills when you're in your pounder ships.
Just an opinion,but i think tactical mode should be allowed to be switched on or off at will, without time limits on it.
Then you have absolutely no idea what game balance means. To be able to literally flip a switch from 2 Commander level BOFF abilities, at will, is unbalanced as hell. There is nothing in this game where you have the option of using 2 Commander level skills. Not even the all-universal BOFF station KDF BOPs can do that.
Indeed, in my BOFF Layout on mine I've loaded the CDR SCI station with AoE abilities..... a mostly to slow or root..... approach cloaked (I fly a rom one), decloak pop off AoE sci like GW3, swap to tac, and pound with the DHC's combined with a Torp spead romulan Hyperplama, there will be few NPC's left, at least on the non eSTF maps..... STF's not too good, vessel doesn't really tank well nor put out enough DPS against elite targets. Most of that is due to not really being able to boost the DHC... you either heavilly boost a regular weapon set and not boost the built in DHC, or boost the DHC moderately and moderate boosting of other weaspons using Dyson tac consoles. So it's not really a built for eSTF's to get it done quick.
But then people are always complaining how eSTF's are too easy, and it can be fun to take non-optimized ships into pugs for a spin now and then just for the challenge. I have this ship on my Rom Tac, and she's T5 on all reps, so mostly anything she is doing is for fleet building.... no need to max out Mark rewards, and challenging oneself in combat helps improve the skills when you're in your pounder ships.
I too am a romulan tac captain in an Aves...lol If you have speced skill point into grav well, you should try the grav torp and the proton console. the proton cannon gets a 13% boost in dps and the torps gets a boost from set bonus and the skill points you put in from GW help the torps proc....which happens 33% of the time....
I too am a romulan tac captain in an Aves...lol If you have speced skill point into grav well, you should try the grav torp and the proton console. the proton cannon gets a 13% boost in dps and the torps gets a boost from set bonus and the skill points you put in from GW help the torps proc....which happens 33% of the time....
Yeah kind of dumb how proton weapons best benefit from the dyson rep gear, all the while the new sol dyson set doesn't do TRIBBLE for it.
All that should be removed is the cooldown if you die in tactical mode. But other than that, the cooldown is just fine. Otherwise the ship would be overpowered as hell (at the moment it is already causing power creep to advance, escort that can start with Gravity Well III is kinda powerful...)
Then you have absolutely no idea what game balance means. To be able to literally flip a switch from 2 Commander level BOFF abilities, at will, is unbalanced as hell. There is nothing in this game where you have the option of using 2 Commander level skills. Not even the all-universal BOFF station KDF BOPs can do that.
I don't often agree with warmaker, but on this point I'm 100% in agreement.
"You Iconians just hung a vacancy sign on your asses and my foot's looking for a room!"
--Red Annorax
The ship is quite powerful in it's current state. It's possible to activate Tactical Mode, hit Attack Pattern Omega III, Deactivate Tactical Mode, and Pop a Omega III buffed Gravity Well III. If there wasn't a cooldown on Tactical Mode, then it would be possible to jump right back to using the proton cannons. Tactical Mode has a 60 second cooldown and Attack Pattern Omega has a 60 second cooldown. I do not see a problem here.
Well to be quite honest it should have been expected, after all unless they are going to implement the ability to fully load out with all proton weapons including equivalent tac consoles, than the built in cannon is sub-par to begin with.
I mean let's face it, the test run in the mission showed it to be meh, it was nice it had plasma beam arrays and torpedoes, but when switching to tac mode the cannon was meh and the use of CSV with a single cannon was pretty cheesy as it should have been CRF3 instead. Overall the ship is great for what it is meant to do as a science vessel, but the ability to revert to tac mode will have the benefit of boff skill change at the cost of some dps due to the limitations of a built in cannon that cannot get a huge damage % increase by tac consoles alone.
The test run gave you a loadout for broadside beam array attacks suitable for a carrier or something, and weak ones at that compared to a player's setup (a player with broadside arrays would still do it far better). It was horrible in the 'test drive', and I am not sure who was thinking what when they set it up. Trying to use a cannon in a broadside boat??? WHAT?? That was extra silly -- I did not even bother to swap modes.
It is pretty much what I expected. It beats the haanom for what I like, so its a welcome addition. It still could be friendly about resetting on map change and death etc. That is not OP nor exploitable.
The timer is fine, it still allows you to chain 2 Command abilities in a single fight.
For those who are misreading, When you switch to Tactical mode or vice versa back to sci mode it starts a 60 sec CD before you can switch again, but you can remain in either mode for a infinite duration. This still allows you to say open the fight with a Command Sci ability (Say maybe pop GW1 +feedback pulse 3? Or a GW3 whichever floats your boat) then quickly switch to tactical mode, pop alpha strike+ the rest of your buffs and unleash hell
No other ship in game has this option, so why complain because you have to wait 60 secs before being able to do this again? Heck the skill CDs are close to that...
Because it is a science ship, not a tactical ship. The 1min cd is just, you are meant to use it as a science vessel foremost, with the option to provide a little extra firepower for certain moments. If you are doing some particular mission that allows you to wait the 1min before moving on, than I suggest use the time in between.
Actually the Dyson is a destroyer and loads cannons in either form.
What you lose is the built-in 4th Proton DHC when you go sci, and the 2nd deflector when you go tactical.
The reason why the mission Dyson loses it's CRV in sci is because it only has the built in cannon.
The timer is fine, it still allows you to chain 2 Command abilities in a single fight.
For those who are misreading, When you switch to Tactical mode or vice versa back to sci mode it starts a 60 sec CD before you can switch again, but you can remain in either mode for a infinite duration. This still allows you to say open the fight with a Command Sci ability (Say maybe pop GW1 +feedback pulse 3? Or a GW3 whichever floats your boat) then quickly switch to tactical mode, pop alpha strike+ the rest of your buffs and unleash hell
No other ship in game has this option, so why complain because you have to wait 60 secs before being able to do this again? Heck the skill CDs are close to that...
Its not about a desire to chain swap modes (I would be even more upset if this were allowed; it is too powerful even with the weakish dps of this ship's alternate mode).
Again, consider a daily task like blowing up gamma E 5 times in a row back to back for rom marks. You zip in, swap to destroyer mode, blow everything up, leave.... and are stuck in sci mode for the next run, probably with reduced dps (not sure yet, but let us pretend you can get more dps out of it in tactical mode). So every other run, you are locked out of the mode. Not a huge deal, but a little lame. The real complaint is that you can't get a reset when you change maps. Or say its borg queen time... you get a suckerpunch from the cylinders and ... are locked out of the mode for the rest of the entire fight. So what makes sense would be a reset on death & map zone. I do not think that is too much to wish for (whether we get it or not). And, for the same reasons, I would not mind seeing such a reset on other ships, like my siege ship & haakona, both of which get knocked into a cooldown after a map change. Not game breaking, just annoying.
The reason why the mission Dyson loses it's CRV in sci is because it only has the built in cannon.
Er...isn't it because that power is in the last slot of the Tac BOff position that swaps with a Sci BOff position based on whether the ship's in Science or Tactical mode?
By default the Dyson Science Destroyer is a Science Vessel. However, activating the Tactical Mode ability the starship will transform. Many science systems will be disabled or altered while some tactical systems will become active. When activating Tactical Mode the following occurs:
Enables Dual Heavy Proton Cannon
+15 Weapon Power
+Turn Rate
+Impulse Speed
+Inertia Lt. Commander Tactical Bridge Officer seat is upgrade to Commander Tactical
Commander Science Bridge Officer seat is downgraded to Lt. Commander Science
I don't see what the big deal is about the swap. If you build right the science mode will still do acceptable damage you can use all your tac Boff skills save for one, and if you're a tac captain you gain a couple more.
A minute doesn't take too long in-game, hell we all blow through 30sec cooldowns like its nothing.
Just drop some mad science on them and use your lesser tac skills. This ship's load out looks a lot like the MVAE's, save for the fact it's commander sci and not tactical, unless you make it.
Er...isn't it because that power is in the last slot of the Tac BOff position that swaps with a Sci BOff position based on whether the ship's in Science or Tactical mode?
Still my point is that the ship can naturally load cannons, sci or tac mode, and the CRV is useless anyway unless you're in tac because the mission Dyson only has beams and photon torps.
I'd be putting at least 1 dual or dual heavy cannon and the EPW with a torp on my own, probably with +proton auto-targets for the heavy cannon.
I realize that and I am not asking that it change but the default mode should be customized. I am not saying get rid of the timer just change up what the button does. If I select for it to be a Tac ship then the button would allow me to switch to sci mode and go in cooldown when I switch back to tac mode. As a tac in one Tac mode is more useful to start than sci mode.
Not to split hairs but is called a sci destroyer, tac sci ship would be TRIBBLE.
Hey I Used to be Captain Data, well I guess I still am in game but the account link really screwed everything up :rolleyes:
Its not worth it even with no cd the ship would still be much worse than a scim so why not remove the cd. Include other op ships to match the scim. If there is one why not more?
I don't see what the big deal is about the swap. If you build right the science mode will still do acceptable damage you can use all your tac Boff skills save for one, and if you're a tac captain you gain a couple more.
A minute doesn't take too long in-game, hell we all blow through 30sec cooldowns like its nothing.
Just drop some mad science on them and use your lesser tac skills. This ship's load out looks a lot like the MVAE's, save for the fact it's commander sci and not tactical, unless you make it.
Still my point is that the ship can naturally load cannons, sci or tac mode, and the CRV is useless anyway unless you're in tac because the mission Dyson only has beams and photon torps.
I'd be putting at least 1 dual or dual heavy cannon and the EPW with a torp on my own, probably with +proton auto-targets for the heavy cannon.
When you engage the tac mode and gain the use of commander tack skills, CRF3 is a commander tac skill so this would go hand in hand for the given moment.
And I already stated you can equip cannons, but it was test driven with beams and the CSV3 using a single built in cannon is not optimal for a good scatter volley to be effective.
All beams, or cannons and turrets would have been better suited, not beams with no tac skills really aiding them (not including the unique boff ones from the mission because we won't get them), or the CSV3 trying to aid a single DHC.
I'm looking at this ship's stats on the wiki, and I'm like. . .you people are seriously complaining about a 60 second cooldown activated by switching from tac mode to sci? The boosts you're getting from the tac mode are impressive. You're switching from +15 aux to +15 weapons, switching the commander stations, losing sensor analysis and subsystem targeting, and gaining turn rate, inertia rating, impulse modifier, and getting a 4th weapon built-in. The only thing that's keeping the thing from being a full-fledged escort at that point is the lack of a 4th tactical console. And you can STAY in that mode indefinitely.
I think people complaining about this are underestimating the potential here. 60 second CD is just fine. It's a good price to pay for the fact that you can use a Commander-level sci power, switch to tactical, and unload with CRF/CSV 3 at close range. It's a good price to pay to have that kind of flexibility in combat, as well.
I'm looking at this ship's stats on the wiki, and I'm like. . .you people are seriously complaining about a 60 second cooldown activated by switching from tac mode to sci? The boosts you're getting from the tac mode are impressive. You're switching from +15 aux to +15 weapons, switching the commander stations, losing sensor analysis and subsystem targeting, and gaining turn rate, inertia rating, impulse modifier, and getting a 4th weapon built-in. The only thing that's keeping the thing from being a full-fledged escort at that point is the lack of a 4th tactical console. And you can STAY in that mode indefinitely.
I think people complaining about this are underestimating the potential here. 60 second CD is just fine. It's a good price to pay for the fact that you can use a Commander-level sci power, switch to tactical, and unload with CRF/CSV 3 at close range. It's a good price to pay to have that kind of flexibility in combat, as well.
Timer is fine as long as it Respawns or transitions through gates in the mode you had it on before those happenings.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
The timer is 100% justified ( please tell me you all can see why? ) and, the reason these ships aren't called dyson tactical destroyer/s is because they are science ships primarily, they just happen to be quite good at being destroyers ( please note that a destroyer is not an escort ).
I'm looking at this ship's stats on the wiki, and I'm like. . .you people are seriously complaining about a 60 second cooldown activated by switching from tac mode to sci? The boosts you're getting from the tac mode are impressive. You're switching from +15 aux to +15 weapons, switching the commander stations, losing sensor analysis and subsystem targeting, and gaining turn rate, inertia rating, impulse modifier, and getting a 4th weapon built-in. The only thing that's keeping the thing from being a full-fledged escort at that point is the lack of a 4th tactical console. And you can STAY in that mode indefinitely.
I think people complaining about this are underestimating the potential here. 60 second CD is just fine. It's a good price to pay for the fact that you can use a Commander-level sci power, switch to tactical, and unload with CRF/CSV 3 at close range. It's a good price to pay to have that kind of flexibility in combat, as well.
Word is the for pay version will have the final console be tac. At that point it will be a "you cannot put in your weapon" cannon away from being a true *destroyer*. Not that there is much difference between an escort and a destroyer, but its there (shields, hull, turn rate being the only real differences).
The performance and potential in combat are fine, very good actually.
Comments
Indeed, I didn't get it for a tac ship, I got to playwith science ability stuff in combat.
But I do get some laughs out of people who, after already testing it in the FE... went and plopped money on it expecting it to Tac well. The specs were documented, test drive for it was given.... this is most certainly a case of Caveat Emptor, they had plenty of prior knowledge given to make an informed decision.... that they seem to not have done so is ultimately, IMO, their problem.
If you use Antiproton, it can be both......
And do so very well. Ive killed people in ker'rat with this thing with Tac mode decloaking alphas, granted, a GW was thrown in too....
Indeed, in my BOFF Layout on mine I've loaded the CDR SCI station with AoE abilities..... a mostly to slow or root..... approach cloaked (I fly a rom one), decloak pop off AoE sci like GW3, swap to tac, and pound with the DHC's combined with a Torp spead romulan Hyperplama, there will be few NPC's left, at least on the non eSTF maps..... STF's not too good, vessel doesn't really tank well nor put out enough DPS against elite targets. Most of that is due to not really being able to boost the DHC... you either heavilly boost a regular weapon set and not boost the built in DHC, or boost the DHC moderately and moderate boosting of other weaspons using Dyson tac consoles. So it's not really a built for eSTF's to get it done quick.
But then people are always complaining how eSTF's are too easy, and it can be fun to take non-optimized ships into pugs for a spin now and then just for the challenge. I have this ship on my Rom Tac, and she's T5 on all reps, so mostly anything she is doing is for fleet building.... no need to max out Mark rewards, and challenging oneself in combat helps improve the skills when you're in your pounder ships.
Acccckkkk it's fine the way it is, get used to it and work with it. :P
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Then you have absolutely no idea what game balance means. To be able to literally flip a switch from 2 Commander level BOFF abilities, at will, is unbalanced as hell. There is nothing in this game where you have the option of using 2 Commander level skills. Not even the all-universal BOFF station KDF BOPs can do that.
I too am a romulan tac captain in an Aves...lol If you have speced skill point into grav well, you should try the grav torp and the proton console. the proton cannon gets a 13% boost in dps and the torps gets a boost from set bonus and the skill points you put in from GW help the torps proc....which happens 33% of the time....
Yeah kind of dumb how proton weapons best benefit from the dyson rep gear, all the while the new sol dyson set doesn't do TRIBBLE for it.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Join the Deltas today!
--Red Annorax
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
The test run gave you a loadout for broadside beam array attacks suitable for a carrier or something, and weak ones at that compared to a player's setup (a player with broadside arrays would still do it far better). It was horrible in the 'test drive', and I am not sure who was thinking what when they set it up. Trying to use a cannon in a broadside boat??? WHAT?? That was extra silly -- I did not even bother to swap modes.
It is pretty much what I expected. It beats the haanom for what I like, so its a welcome addition. It still could be friendly about resetting on map change and death etc. That is not OP nor exploitable.
For those who are misreading, When you switch to Tactical mode or vice versa back to sci mode it starts a 60 sec CD before you can switch again, but you can remain in either mode for a infinite duration. This still allows you to say open the fight with a Command Sci ability (Say maybe pop GW1 +feedback pulse 3? Or a GW3 whichever floats your boat) then quickly switch to tactical mode, pop alpha strike+ the rest of your buffs and unleash hell
No other ship in game has this option, so why complain because you have to wait 60 secs before being able to do this again? Heck the skill CDs are close to that...
Actually the Dyson is a destroyer and loads cannons in either form.
What you lose is the built-in 4th Proton DHC when you go sci, and the 2nd deflector when you go tactical.
The reason why the mission Dyson loses it's CRV in sci is because it only has the built in cannon.
Its not about a desire to chain swap modes (I would be even more upset if this were allowed; it is too powerful even with the weakish dps of this ship's alternate mode).
Again, consider a daily task like blowing up gamma E 5 times in a row back to back for rom marks. You zip in, swap to destroyer mode, blow everything up, leave.... and are stuck in sci mode for the next run, probably with reduced dps (not sure yet, but let us pretend you can get more dps out of it in tactical mode). So every other run, you are locked out of the mode. Not a huge deal, but a little lame. The real complaint is that you can't get a reset when you change maps. Or say its borg queen time... you get a suckerpunch from the cylinders and ... are locked out of the mode for the rest of the entire fight. So what makes sense would be a reset on death & map zone. I do not think that is too much to wish for (whether we get it or not). And, for the same reasons, I would not mind seeing such a reset on other ships, like my siege ship & haakona, both of which get knocked into a cooldown after a map change. Not game breaking, just annoying.
Er...isn't it because that power is in the last slot of the Tac BOff position that swaps with a Sci BOff position based on whether the ship's in Science or Tactical mode?
http://sto.perfectworld.com/news/?p=1088571
A minute doesn't take too long in-game, hell we all blow through 30sec cooldowns like its nothing.
Just drop some mad science on them and use your lesser tac skills. This ship's load out looks a lot like the MVAE's, save for the fact it's commander sci and not tactical, unless you make it.
Still my point is that the ship can naturally load cannons, sci or tac mode, and the CRV is useless anyway unless you're in tac because the mission Dyson only has beams and photon torps.
I'd be putting at least 1 dual or dual heavy cannon and the EPW with a torp on my own, probably with +proton auto-targets for the heavy cannon.
I realize that and I am not asking that it change but the default mode should be customized. I am not saying get rid of the timer just change up what the button does. If I select for it to be a Tac ship then the button would allow me to switch to sci mode and go in cooldown when I switch back to tac mode. As a tac in one Tac mode is more useful to start than sci mode.
Not to split hairs but is called a sci destroyer, tac sci ship would be TRIBBLE.
When you engage the tac mode and gain the use of commander tack skills, CRF3 is a commander tac skill so this would go hand in hand for the given moment.
And I already stated you can equip cannons, but it was test driven with beams and the CSV3 using a single built in cannon is not optimal for a good scatter volley to be effective.
All beams, or cannons and turrets would have been better suited, not beams with no tac skills really aiding them (not including the unique boff ones from the mission because we won't get them), or the CSV3 trying to aid a single DHC.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
I am planning on running this ship much like it is in the FE with a few changes.
Front
EWP
Dyson Torp
Protonic Polaron DBB Mk XII Purple
Rear
2x Protonic Polaron BA Mk XII Purple
1x Protonic Polaron Turret Mk XII Purple
FE engines, deflector, shields
Core and deflector from ship
3x auto targeting polaron Mk XII purple
2x Emitter Arrays
Nukara Particle Converter
Dyson rep console
Powers pretty standard.
Tac Ens - TT
Eng Lt - EPtS 1, EPtW 2
Sci Lt - Tachyon 1, PH 2
Switchy spots
Sci - HE 1, TSS 2, TBR (with Doff), GW 3
Tac - FAW 1, BO 2, APO 1, CRF 3
Basic run through of how i plan on using this ship. The missing consoles are going to be the 3 from the C-store ships.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I think people complaining about this are underestimating the potential here. 60 second CD is just fine. It's a good price to pay for the fact that you can use a Commander-level sci power, switch to tactical, and unload with CRF/CSV 3 at close range. It's a good price to pay to have that kind of flexibility in combat, as well.
Agreed
Agreed
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Why do these new science destroyers deserve different/special treatment?
That's me !
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Word is the for pay version will have the final console be tac. At that point it will be a "you cannot put in your weapon" cannon away from being a true *destroyer*. Not that there is much difference between an escort and a destroyer, but its there (shields, hull, turn rate being the only real differences).
The performance and potential in combat are fine, very good actually.