No, it would have to be a pretty substantial thing. Think of all of the assets that would have to be made for it. If we're investing that much into something, it would have to be a big deal. Something like an event, or a big part of a season release.
Doing other Holodeck adventures would be equally expensive. Think about Dixon Hill, or Sherlock Holmes. There is almost nothing in the game that could be reused in such a mission. That's the problem.
Yeah... Hmm... I read this, and thought exactly this:
I don't know if that is possible, but since its the same engine... why not using some assets from champions online?
Or even neverwinter for "middle age holodeck stories"
PWE seems to want to advertise their other games, this would be (shudder) the perfect opportunity to do it, and would give you the perfect tool to measure how well such a feature would be used (and how worth it to develop something more from scratch...)
"Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
I think some of the assets could be cobbled together creatively to make some sort of Holodeck Adventure. If not quite Captain Proton, maybe using some of the TOS assets, the Ferengi whip, and some of the ancient ruins and such to create an Indiana Jones-esque thing. We've got dinosaurs, we've got whips, we've got goofy looking TOS Ray Guns, we've got giant spiders... slap on a filter to the zone so that it's in black and white, or better yet, 1960s-era television colors.
Not quite Captain Proton, but maybe a pulpy version of earlier eras. Maybe... "Captain Proton: The Next Generation" or something more "Indiana Jones in Space." I mean, what do Federation citizens like as cheap escapism? I can totally buy serial novel style holos about some adventuring space hero/heroine with a laser whip and a phaser blaster and a neat coat set back when space was wild and untamed.
Not everything in STO has to be grim and focused on the Iconians and our conflict with them. Some levity helps with the mood.
I think some of the assets could be cobbled together creatively to make some sort of Holodeck Adventure. If not quite Captain Proton, maybe using some of the TOS assets, the Ferengi whip, and some of the ancient ruins and such to create an Indiana Jones-esque thing. We've got dinosaurs, we've got whips, we've got goofy looking TOS Ray Guns, we've got giant spiders... slap on a filter to the zone so that it's in black and white, or better yet, 1960s-era television colors.
Not quite Captain Proton, but maybe a pulpy version of earlier eras. Maybe... "Captain Proton: The Next Generation" or something more "Indiana Jones in Space." I mean, what do Federation citizens like as cheap escapism? I can totally buy serial novel style holos about some adventuring space hero/heroine with a laser whip and a phaser blaster and a neat coat set back when space was wild and untamed.
Not everything in STO has to be grim and focused on the Iconians and our conflict with them. Some levity helps with the mood.
Actually, Im about 85% certain the energy whip is not available in the foundry for its use, though I suppose you actually mean for players to use.
Also there are no filters presently that would mimic what you ask, best you can do is fuzz things up with some of the atmosphere effects, or darken it .
I would like a whole Bride of Chaotica FE-series. Bring on Robert Duncan McNeill to voiceover Tom Paris, who is a widely publish holo-novelist in 2409. Make one of his holo-novels bork out again and task us with fixing it for the old-timer. Make the parts where we are in-program black and white. Rewards could be personal holo-emitters and such. Would be fun.
No, it would have to be a pretty substantial thing. Think of all of the assets that would have to be made for it. If we're investing that much into something, it would have to be a big deal. Something like an event, or a big part of a season release.
Doing other Holodeck adventures would be equally expensive. Think about Dixon Hill, or Sherlock Holmes. There is almost nothing in the game that could be reused in such a mission. That's the problem.
Hmm...okay. Just a "pie in the sky" thought here: could you do the "substantial thing" and then recycle this material in lock box rewards? Say, a half dozen special challenging/rewarding Capt. Proton holodeck missions which randomly drop from certain lock boxes? For me, I've only ever unlocked 2 boxes, more of a curiosity than anything. I've yet to see the ship that screams for me to open more. But if I knew I might also collect a half dozen special missions of my favorite monochromatic hero, or gumshoe, well I'd be more inclined to acquire.
EDIT: okay, going way out on the limb here, make each of those 6 collectible missions have one item that needs to be acquired by mission's end. Assembling all 6 items unlocks a 7th and final storyline in the chain in which the item needs to be used for victory.
Actually, Im about 85% certain the energy whip is not available in the foundry for its use, though I suppose you actually mean for players to use.
Also there are no filters presently that would mimic what you ask, best you can do is fuzz things up with some of the atmosphere effects, or darken it .
I think some of the assets could be cobbled together creatively to make some sort of Holodeck Adventure. If not quite Captain Proton, maybe using some of the TOS assets, the Ferengi whip, and some of the ancient ruins and such to create an Indiana Jones-esque thing. We've got dinosaurs, we've got whips, we've got goofy looking TOS Ray Guns, we've got giant spiders... slap on a filter to the zone so that it's in black and white, or better yet, 1960s-era television colors.
Not quite Captain Proton, but maybe a pulpy version of earlier eras. Maybe... "Captain Proton: The Next Generation" or something more "Indiana Jones in Space." I mean, what do Federation citizens like as cheap escapism? I can totally buy serial novel style holos about some adventuring space hero/heroine with a laser whip and a phaser blaster and a neat coat set back when space was wild and untamed.
Not everything in STO has to be grim and focused on the Iconians and our conflict with them. Some levity helps with the mood.
See, this, this is EXACTLY what we need. A nice, light, TOS-style episode. Fate-of-the-galaxy is nice and all, but if I want nonstop gritty grimdark I'll swallow my SWTOR hate and go play that.
And with that in mind, I strongly suggest portraying the Iconians as over-the-top hammy posers. Because people like that are fun to punch.
Doing other Holodeck adventures would be equally expensive. Think about Dixon Hill, or Sherlock Holmes. There is almost nothing in the game that could be reused in such a mission. That's the problem.
Thinking outside the box, would it be possible to port certain objects over from Champions or Neverwinter?
Some of the NW stuff might work for a Beowulf holodeck adventure, if there's any possibility of porting objects. This has probably been asked before, but I don't remember seeing an answer.
Dixon Hill stuff could be created and reused for Iotia (TOS: "A Piece of the Action"), for Vic's Lounge (DS9: "Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang"), and Enterprise time-travel plots (ENT: "Carbon Creek", "Storm Front").
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Thinking outside the box, would it be possible to port certain objects over from Champions or Neverwinter?
Some of the NW stuff might work for a Beowulf holodeck adventure, if there's any possibility of porting objects. This has probably been asked before, but I don't remember seeing an answer.
Dixon Hill stuff could be created and reused for Iotia (TOS: "A Piece of the Action"), for Vic's Lounge (DS9: "Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang"), and Enterprise time-travel plots (ENT: "Carbon Creek", "Storm Front").
Taco would be able to best speak on this (especially with his previous champs experience) but again I think there is a certain incompatibility of the graphics, and if I recall right it was scale related.
No, it would have to be a pretty substantial thing. Think of all of the assets that would have to be made for it. If we're investing that much into something, it would have to be a big deal. Something like an event, or a big part of a season release.
Doing other Holodeck adventures would be equally expensive. Think about Dixon Hill, or Sherlock Holmes. There is almost nothing in the game that could be reused in such a mission. That's the problem.
Taco that would be awesome maybe next years anniversary event could incorporate these ideas? I would hate to wait another year for this but given the difficulty level of making not just more missions but missions of this caliber I'd understand completely.
If you gave us Evil Robot combat pets as a mission reward...
Yeah. That would be just awesome.
You could also do a whole series of holodeck missions; "[Player name], Secret Agent", Captain Proton, and similar stuff. Maybe a good Dixon Hill, and maybe a little Shakespeare? Because Captain Picard has great taste.
Also, if we had a Dr. Chaotica laugh emote...:D
Given the fact that all factions have access to Holodecks at various locations in the game, I'd LOVE to see replayable holodeck missions that can be launched from any holodeck.
In the immortal words of Captain Sisko: "It may not be what you believe, but that doesn't make it wrong."
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
Given the fact that all factions have access to Holodecks at various locations in the game, I'd LOVE to see replayable holodeck missions that can be launched from any holodeck.
Exactly! They don't need to have big rewards, just some little stuff for you to do when you're bored.
I wonder how well something like this would go over if you charged a very nominal amount of Zen to play them? Like 100 (basically $1). The extra revenue would offset the cost of making the assets and future "episodes".
I know I'd pay a buck for a Captain Proton mission.
And I also wonder about importing assets from Champions or Neverwinter. Champs has a lot of sci-fi and robotic assets that would definitely fit a Captain Proton theme.
No, it would have to be a pretty substantial thing. Think of all of the assets that would have to be made for it. If we're investing that much into something, it would have to be a big deal. Something like an event, or a big part of a season release.
Doing other Holodeck adventures would be equally expensive. Think about Dixon Hill, or Sherlock Holmes. There is almost nothing in the game that could be reused in such a mission. That's the problem.
I think one thing that could offset the cost somewhat is it was released alongside events that use existing assets.
Also... My quick pitch: don't JUST make holograms a playable/BO species but segregate holograms by type while instituting a "set bonus" feature similar to what ships have.
So instead of buying a playable hologram, have Captain Proton holograms as one species. Have Victorian England holograms as a species.
But have some kind of shared unlock. Like each species of hologram unlocks new traits usable by any holograms on your account. Overall, this should bring in more cash for asset development.
I think you could accomplish similar things with sub-species and hybrid species. Sell Half-Human/Half-Vulcan as a species unlock. This comes with new traits and the new traits are available to all Hybrid Human/Vulcan, Vulcans, and Humans on the account.
Then you sell Hybrid Human/Klingon. This unlocks new traits for all Klingons, Humans, and Hybrid Klingon/Humans on the account.
And then suddenly your humans who buy both get both sets of new traits as options which creates new builds and new synergies. It's a stacking effect.
I think a problem with the Caitian/Ferasan/Ferengi/Pakled model was this idea of radically new species at too high a pricepoint whereas selling sub-species (Gorn variants, hybrids, augments) at a slightly lower pricepoint with a "collect them all" approach (and reasons to collect them all even for a player with no intent of rerolling) would do better.
And that could seriously help monetize the special resources needed for holograms if each variety is a separate sale and "stacking" multiple subspecies purchases allows you to create a more custom hologram.
I know your focus is art but I'm just looking at the system for monetizing that art because I'd love to see the art itself get made.
I think something like Captain Proton is more feasible than Dixon hill. Simply due to it's style. It's 1930's Sci Fi, which was all pretty crude and sparse, which means it would be faster/easier to replicate than an actual 1920's/30's city.
As for reusing assets from other games, hypothetically possible, but the styles are pretty different and I think the assets would never feel quite right. (it would also make me cringe every time I saw it)
Captain Proton does have another issue, which is Black & White. While we can desaturate the screen using post processing, instantly turning everything B&W, post processing can be turned off by players, which means those players would see it all in color. We'd actually have to author everything in Black and White for it to work for everyone. Not impossible, just an interesting challenge.
And I'm not the one you need to convince. I'd LOVE to work on a Captain Proton episode, but you've gotta talk to the big dogs about getting that scheduled.
No, it would have to be a pretty substantial thing. Think of all of the assets that would have to be made for it. If we're investing that much into something, it would have to be a big deal. Something like an event, or a big part of a season release.
Doing other Holodeck adventures would be equally expensive. Think about Dixon Hill, or Sherlock Holmes. There is almost nothing in the game that could be reused in such a mission. That's the problem.
Question: Why does a holodeck adventure have to focus on iconic ones shown from the series like Vic Fontaine or Fair Haven?
Why not make a holodeck simulation with art assets from Cryptic's other games? Like a medieval Map based on Neverwinter or an over the over the top super hero story with champion's assets?
Regarding Sherlock Holmes and/or reusing assets from other games...
I'd think the simplest solution would be to buy a royalty free license for stock art or borrow from Champs, at least in the distance/skybox, and then retexture it to better match STO's visual style. Which is not unlike how Thomas has periodically taken photos and then painted them to look like in-game art, like he did for the Enterprises that weren't in game for the Fleet Starbase.
I also think you could accomplish a lot by keeping heavily distinctive stuff in the skybox or at a distance, kinda like Starfleet Academy.
Baker Street might prove tricky but the banks of the River Thames and then some stock alleys might be more doable.
I realize this might be controversial but this is an area where rail shooter travel by carriage could allow for a lot of cheating if you wanted something visually impressive without too many load screens and on the cheap. You'd just need control of where the player is in relation to some things.
Another thought:
Malfunctioning holodeck adventure zone/battlezone. You wouldn't need a full kit of assets for any particular program. You could have a crazy skyline like we see in Doctor Who's "The Wedding of River Song" and partial sectors by area.
It might scracth a lot of different itches at once but you could get by with a lot of partial settings rather than any one complete one by having mismatching buildings and assets, deliberately, and flashing holodeck grid effects in place of even having to do full textures.
Victorian highwaymen, robots, and dinosaurs could make up a single mob group. Yes, yes, a lot of art but none of it needs to be a complete matching set, which would let you cheat in all kinds of different directions and plug in gaps with Bajoran assets, Cardassian assets, Klingon assets, etc. In that case, you could have a lot of novelty but get by with elements being incomplete because the zone is, deliberately, chaotic and mishmashing existing assets with hints of new ones.
I still think Captain Proton would be a really fun anniversary event. The artists would enjoy it. So would the writer. And players will love a robot pet and some kind of death ray gun.
It might even be easy and relatively cheap to get McNeal to narrate the holodeck adventure, as if Paris wrote and published it when VOY got back to the quadrant.
I think the next lock box after hirogen should be a captain proton theme
Things you can get should be
His ship from lockbox
Uniform from the lobi store
His gun from lobi store
Maybe some special duty officers from the lockbox
ROFLMAO And released on April 1. Absolutely! I would SO go for that!
I still think Captain Proton would be a really fun anniversary event. The artists would enjoy it. So would the writer. And players will love a robot pet and some kind of death ray gun.
It might even be easy and relatively cheap to get McNeal to narrate the holodeck adventure, as if Paris wrote and published it when VOY got back to the quadrant.
No actor likeness issues. Just audio.
Hehe, it's been discussed before, and yeah, I think it'd be fun.
I think the next lock box after hirogen should be a captain proton theme
Things you can get should be
His ship from lockbox
Uniform from the lobi store
His gun from lobi store
Maybe some special duty officers from the lockbox
Sounds pretty fun.
I myself would love a Kazon lockbox SHIP (maybe not a whole kazon lockbox, maybe just an early Voyager lockbox).
But I'd dig a Captain Proton Lockbox as you describe.
As much as I criticize Voyager as a series, apparently I watched so much of it back in the day I do subconsciously dig it. Hah.
They should make Captain Proton episode where it becomes in black and white and plays 1930s movie music lol. Also they should make other holodeck episodes with Moriarty and Vic Fontaine's club
I'd rather do Captain Proton as an episode. I've pitched it before, we could do it all in B&W.
As I've posted before, I'd like to see a whole series of 'holodeck mini missions' which you activated from the various holodeck locations.
Captain Proton would be the most obvious, Beowulf, something set in the Paris Bar, one with Leo Da Vinci and, of course, a Tuvok 'Maquis mutiny revolt simulation'.
No, it would have to be a pretty substantial thing. Think of all of the assets that would have to be made for it. If we're investing that much into something, it would have to be a big deal. Something like an event, or a big part of a season release.
Doing other Holodeck adventures would be equally expensive. Think about Dixon Hill, or Sherlock Holmes. There is almost nothing in the game that could be reused in such a mission. That's the problem.
Season 10:Photonic Rebellion
(/\) Exploring Star Trek Online Since July 2008 (/\)
A thought if you're looking for an in-universe/story excuse for this kind of thing: the photonics rebelling against the Hirogen after Voyager gave them holodeck tech. Heck, they were building entire ships that consisted of nothing but engines, a computer, sensors and holo-projectors. And then shooting Hirogen with holographic phasers with the safeties off.
You could use that excuse for why we'd get ships out of the lockboxes. Include the flicker effect on them, and underneath it's just this small ship with a small bridge, projecting out the holo-Captain Proton ship or whatever.
Comments
Not quite Captain Proton, but maybe a pulpy version of earlier eras. Maybe... "Captain Proton: The Next Generation" or something more "Indiana Jones in Space." I mean, what do Federation citizens like as cheap escapism? I can totally buy serial novel style holos about some adventuring space hero/heroine with a laser whip and a phaser blaster and a neat coat set back when space was wild and untamed.
Not everything in STO has to be grim and focused on the Iconians and our conflict with them. Some levity helps with the mood.
I have zero experience, or I'd try it (or know that there isn't enough there to work with...)
Actually, Im about 85% certain the energy whip is not available in the foundry for its use, though I suppose you actually mean for players to use.
Also there are no filters presently that would mimic what you ask, best you can do is fuzz things up with some of the atmosphere effects, or darken it .
Hmm...okay. Just a "pie in the sky" thought here: could you do the "substantial thing" and then recycle this material in lock box rewards? Say, a half dozen special challenging/rewarding Capt. Proton holodeck missions which randomly drop from certain lock boxes? For me, I've only ever unlocked 2 boxes, more of a curiosity than anything. I've yet to see the ship that screams for me to open more. But if I knew I might also collect a half dozen special missions of my favorite monochromatic hero, or gumshoe, well I'd be more inclined to acquire.
EDIT: okay, going way out on the limb here, make each of those 6 collectible missions have one item that needs to be acquired by mission's end. Assembling all 6 items unlocks a 7th and final storyline in the chain in which the item needs to be used for victory.
I'd totally play a Captain Proton Episode. If not B&W, do it in old 1960s color television colors.
It'd be a wonderful change of pace from All Iconians, All the Time.
But I'm sure the devs could pull that off.
See, this, this is EXACTLY what we need. A nice, light, TOS-style episode. Fate-of-the-galaxy is nice and all, but if I want nonstop gritty grimdark I'll swallow my SWTOR hate and go play that.
And with that in mind, I strongly suggest portraying the Iconians as over-the-top hammy posers. Because people like that are fun to punch.
Thinking outside the box, would it be possible to port certain objects over from Champions or Neverwinter?
Some of the NW stuff might work for a Beowulf holodeck adventure, if there's any possibility of porting objects. This has probably been asked before, but I don't remember seeing an answer.
Dixon Hill stuff could be created and reused for Iotia (TOS: "A Piece of the Action"), for Vic's Lounge (DS9: "Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang"), and Enterprise time-travel plots (ENT: "Carbon Creek", "Storm Front").
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Taco would be able to best speak on this (especially with his previous champs experience) but again I think there is a certain incompatibility of the graphics, and if I recall right it was scale related.
Taco that would be awesome
Given the fact that all factions have access to Holodecks at various locations in the game, I'd LOVE to see replayable holodeck missions that can be launched from any holodeck.
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
Exactly! They don't need to have big rewards, just some little stuff for you to do when you're bored.
I know I'd pay a buck for a Captain Proton mission.
And I also wonder about importing assets from Champions or Neverwinter. Champs has a lot of sci-fi and robotic assets that would definitely fit a Captain Proton theme.
I think one thing that could offset the cost somewhat is it was released alongside events that use existing assets.
Also... My quick pitch: don't JUST make holograms a playable/BO species but segregate holograms by type while instituting a "set bonus" feature similar to what ships have.
So instead of buying a playable hologram, have Captain Proton holograms as one species. Have Victorian England holograms as a species.
But have some kind of shared unlock. Like each species of hologram unlocks new traits usable by any holograms on your account. Overall, this should bring in more cash for asset development.
I think you could accomplish similar things with sub-species and hybrid species. Sell Half-Human/Half-Vulcan as a species unlock. This comes with new traits and the new traits are available to all Hybrid Human/Vulcan, Vulcans, and Humans on the account.
Then you sell Hybrid Human/Klingon. This unlocks new traits for all Klingons, Humans, and Hybrid Klingon/Humans on the account.
And then suddenly your humans who buy both get both sets of new traits as options which creates new builds and new synergies. It's a stacking effect.
I think a problem with the Caitian/Ferasan/Ferengi/Pakled model was this idea of radically new species at too high a pricepoint whereas selling sub-species (Gorn variants, hybrids, augments) at a slightly lower pricepoint with a "collect them all" approach (and reasons to collect them all even for a player with no intent of rerolling) would do better.
And that could seriously help monetize the special resources needed for holograms if each variety is a separate sale and "stacking" multiple subspecies purchases allows you to create a more custom hologram.
I know your focus is art but I'm just looking at the system for monetizing that art because I'd love to see the art itself get made.
As for reusing assets from other games, hypothetically possible, but the styles are pretty different and I think the assets would never feel quite right. (it would also make me cringe every time I saw it)
Captain Proton does have another issue, which is Black & White. While we can desaturate the screen using post processing, instantly turning everything B&W, post processing can be turned off by players, which means those players would see it all in color. We'd actually have to author everything in Black and White for it to work for everyone. Not impossible, just an interesting challenge.
And I'm not the one you need to convince. I'd LOVE to work on a Captain Proton episode, but you've gotta talk to the big dogs about getting that scheduled.
Question: Why does a holodeck adventure have to focus on iconic ones shown from the series like Vic Fontaine or Fair Haven?
Why not make a holodeck simulation with art assets from Cryptic's other games? Like a medieval Map based on Neverwinter or an over the over the top super hero story with champion's assets?
I'd think the simplest solution would be to buy a royalty free license for stock art or borrow from Champs, at least in the distance/skybox, and then retexture it to better match STO's visual style. Which is not unlike how Thomas has periodically taken photos and then painted them to look like in-game art, like he did for the Enterprises that weren't in game for the Fleet Starbase.
I also think you could accomplish a lot by keeping heavily distinctive stuff in the skybox or at a distance, kinda like Starfleet Academy.
Baker Street might prove tricky but the banks of the River Thames and then some stock alleys might be more doable.
I realize this might be controversial but this is an area where rail shooter travel by carriage could allow for a lot of cheating if you wanted something visually impressive without too many load screens and on the cheap. You'd just need control of where the player is in relation to some things.
Another thought:
Malfunctioning holodeck adventure zone/battlezone. You wouldn't need a full kit of assets for any particular program. You could have a crazy skyline like we see in Doctor Who's "The Wedding of River Song" and partial sectors by area.
It might scracth a lot of different itches at once but you could get by with a lot of partial settings rather than any one complete one by having mismatching buildings and assets, deliberately, and flashing holodeck grid effects in place of even having to do full textures.
Victorian highwaymen, robots, and dinosaurs could make up a single mob group. Yes, yes, a lot of art but none of it needs to be a complete matching set, which would let you cheat in all kinds of different directions and plug in gaps with Bajoran assets, Cardassian assets, Klingon assets, etc. In that case, you could have a lot of novelty but get by with elements being incomplete because the zone is, deliberately, chaotic and mishmashing existing assets with hints of new ones.
A whiney counsellor who makes you want to beam her into the nearest star?
It might even be easy and relatively cheap to get McNeal to narrate the holodeck adventure, as if Paris wrote and published it when VOY got back to the quadrant.
No actor likeness issues. Just audio.
ROFLMAO And released on April 1. Absolutely! I would SO go for that!
My character Tsin'xing
Sounds pretty fun.
I myself would love a Kazon lockbox SHIP (maybe not a whole kazon lockbox, maybe just an early Voyager lockbox).
But I'd dig a Captain Proton Lockbox as you describe.
As much as I criticize Voyager as a series, apparently I watched so much of it back in the day I do subconsciously dig it. Hah.
As I've posted before, I'd like to see a whole series of 'holodeck mini missions' which you activated from the various holodeck locations.
Captain Proton would be the most obvious, Beowulf, something set in the Paris Bar, one with Leo Da Vinci and, of course, a Tuvok 'Maquis mutiny revolt simulation'.
Season 10: Photonic Rebellion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCH0yAj0hWc
You could use that excuse for why we'd get ships out of the lockboxes. Include the flicker effect on them, and underneath it's just this small ship with a small bridge, projecting out the holo-Captain Proton ship or whatever.