You may say that you contribute to the win condition, but for every you there are at least ten times the amount of leeching players just tagging and getting killed over and over without actually participating in the event. These players don't work with time tables, they just want the tagging be over as quickly as possible, so they can move to another zone.
I really like how you promote what you are doing with such fervor, but if everyone would act like you, there wouldn't be any progress at all in the zones. There is no necessity for you to be there, but there is for other players actually playing in the battlezone.
I really like how you promote what you are doing with such fervor, but if everyone would act like you, there wouldn't be any progress at all in the zones. There is no necessity for you to be there, but there is for other players actually playing in the battlezone.
False. If everyone behaved exactly as I said, the zones would run smoothly and with total efficiency and order. The problem is that they don't and you're forced to cut corners to stay ahead of disorganized idiots.
The perfectly run battlezone would play like this:
1. About 6-8 "Daily Mission" Pioneers spread out and capture their 2 two points, getting the BZ Credits and spending them to fill their dailies. Once the zone is about ready to pop, with only one point, near the Rex Spawn, ready to pop...
2. The Rex Taggers Move In. They split into 3 groups, distributed to each of the 3 spawns. The final zone is capped, and the Battle Zone enters its final stage.
3. The taggers kill the medics, tag the dino, then die and move clockwise to the next dino, repeating the process until the last Dino. No one rashly kills a dino and denies the rest of the zone full rewards.
4. Kill the last Dino.
Result: The battlezone runs smoothly and in accordance with the procedures I have described here. Everyone receives full rewards. Life is good.
For the most part, the common schlub battlezone runs much like described, except that inept buffoons tend to try their hardest to TRIBBLE up step 3, either by failing to shoot the medics, failing to die in a timely manner, or trying too hard to kill a dino prior to allowing everyone a chance to tag it. This in turn forces the battlezone to be run in a less than ideal, generally much more stressful manner, as people have to run extra fast to get to their spots, distribution becomes uneven, and people like you whine constantly.
And the truth is, even the people you consider to be leeches still at least make some contribution to the zone: They act as rush-retardant, taking up space to prevent too many impulsive people from wrecking the zone prematurely. By not actively participating in the dino-shooting at all, they slow down the kill rate, allowing everyone to get their tag in. Unless you think the control rods in the nuclear reactor that slow down the reaction are useless, even these people serve a purpose: Pull them out and you get a meltdown.
I couldn't find an appropriate topic for this so here goes, and forgive my little rant ...
Over the course of the past few days, I've noticed a major problem that Cryptic has with Battlezone that they refuse to either address, acknowledge or fix. This concerns the scammers who wait in the Command Center until the various areas of the Battlezone are cleared and then they race like hell to the Bio-engineered dinos (the big bossess), hoping to get the big bonus rewards without putting out the work for it.
I believe many have termed these worthless players as "AFKers", "Looters" or "Taggers" and it has literally gotten out of hand. The problem has become so bad that BZ has become an AFK/Looter/Tagger nightmare. Something drastic needs to be done.
I would suggest that when Battlezone starts, to restrict access to the Command Center during the event or even going so far as to lock the transporters and the doors to the Command Center when the boss fight starts. Because, as it stands now, BZ has become the epitome of STO.
It's even worse than the AFKers doing the PvE stuff and Cryptic needs to address this problem because it's grown into a major problem. Unless the rest of you guys don't agree with me on this.
Unfortunately, my big mouth in BZ chat has gotten me temporarily suspended (which I hope is resolved soon).
I think you missed the afk'rs that are waiting at the rex spawn..
So your solution will not work !!
They must make it so that you need to atleast did 5 zones before you get anything from the rex.
First time I went and helped take the zone (from zone reset to Vrex) I was quite surprised that in the first 1h of that session I made hardly any profit at all and then suddenly in the frame of 5 minutes i made all the profit at the end. Like others have said, the problem isn't the taggers, the problem is that capturing the zones and actually playing the BZ gives hardly any rewards, compared to just getting a few shots in on the Vrex.
Because that's what you not want. Secure the victory condition of the map. This comment alone shows how egotistical your motives are. Don't make it look like you are actually needed. One person is needed to kill the medics, not an army of taggers who let themselfes be killed by the third T-Rex anyway, so they don't have to do any further work.
Any other excuses you are "needed" ?
Yeah, the goal is to kill the Voth. That..."strategy" is little more than leeching others's work, and making grandiose self-important claims. A good player can get in two or three V-Rex kills without tagging. Taggers are cheating the system.
A simple solution to tagging, not sure if anyone has suggested this but can't the developers just make it so you need to be within a 100 metres of the dino/area to get credit? 100 metres should be enough to make sure you get credit if you respawn and run back yet stop the taggers a bit.
Not normally worried about stuff like this but when theres only 1 or 2 of us killing a dino while 6 or 7 taggers run in shoot it once before heading to the next it gets a bit frustrating.
Not normally worried about stuff like this but when theres only 1 or 2 of us killing a dino while 6 or 7 taggers run in shoot it once before heading to the next it gets a bit frustrating.
I promise you this outcome will prove objectively worse for you. Imagine how this will change: 6-7 guys run in and all shoot YOUR dino, even though you have the area under control. An area starts failing, but, of course, no one is in there. And no one will leave, lest they forfeit their win.
The area fails. Everyone gets less reward. But if anyone had left, they would have risked getting NO reward. I don't think you'd consider this to be an improvement.
It gets worse: Because the respawn point is often far away from the dino, let's say a mortar strike manages to kill half your group. They all just lie there dead, because to respawn is to forfeit.
And all this brought about because certain people who don't understand how to actually run BZ complained about how to do it correctly.
I promise you this outcome will prove objectively worse for you. Imagine how this will change: 6-7 guys run in and all shoot YOUR dino, even though you have the area under control. An area starts failing, but, of course, no one is in there. And no one will leave, lest they forfeit their win.
The area fails. Everyone gets less reward. But if anyone had left, they would have risked getting NO reward. I don't think you'd consider this to be an improvement.
It gets worse: Because the respawn point is often far away from the dino, let's say a mortar strike manages to kill half your group. They all just lie there dead, because to respawn is to forfeit.
And all this brought about because certain people who don't understand how to actually run BZ complained about how to do it correctly.
Um... yeah.... that all assumes that it only counts that specific sector..... It'd work fine as long as if, for example, the "tag" for the park dino expired as soon as you left the park.
No one said anything about not getting a reward until all three are dead. You'd still get your rewards as soon as it dies and be free to move on to the next dino.
No one said anything about not getting a reward until all three are dead. You'd still get your rewards as soon as it dies and be free to move on to the next dino.
Assuming the population is roughly equally distributed in such a case, the other dinos will likely die before you arrive, reducing your pay. If the population is NOT evenly distributed, and exhibits gross imbalance, a zone will likely fail as no one will break off from a zone that clearly winning handily to aid another zone, which again, reduces your pay. In the current system, players are encouraged to tend the entire battlezone, as you have already logged your reward once you tag: Once you tag, if the current people there have the situation under control, you are best moving off to where you might be needed. If leaving forfeits the reward, you will stay no matter what, even if other zones fail, because the reduced failure reward is STILL higher than the Big Fat Nothing you get if you relocate.
Furthermore, such a change would render the battlezone less appealing. This would mean that fewer players are present, further increasing the risk of failure, which, again, reduces your pay.
This is not really a good thing. Isn't it better that everyone gets the full reward? In the beginning, many believed what you believed, and would fight it out only in their zone, never relocating. Failure rates were, naturally, quite high, as a result, as undertended zones did not receive circulation. Nowadays it is exceedingly rare for a zone to fail and everyone gets the 3/3 reward. You want to go BACK to that?
Jumping into a near-completed zone and taging 3 V-Rexes: 3120 Dil + 135 marks
Capturing 7 points and tagging/killing all 3 V'Rexes: 4980 Dil + 235 marks
(please correct me if I got the numbers wrong)
While that seems to be an ok'ish difference, it really isn't, since the time it takes to complete a zone 'the way gameplay probably was intended' is much longer than the time it takes to just 'collect' the endfight rewards.
- Getting full V'Rex fight rewards for shooting it or the medics once is ridiculous
- Getting roughly 2/3 of the 'maximum' reward for minimal effort is ridiculous
In order to get rewards, a character should be required to get more involved in the completion of a capture point, or the killing of a V'Rex.
Aditionally/alternatively, the pure tagging of the three V'Rexes should not result in any additional, or just very minimal rewards. 3x 480 Dil and 3x 25 marks should be more than enough for that kind of lazy procedure.
The final reward should depend largely on your participation in capturing the zone, not just tagging the end bosses.
In other words, your rewards should depend on the number of points/objectives secured, your actual participation in the zone, multiplied/modified by the number of V'Rexes killed at the end. The V'Rexes should yield only a small amount themselves, like the 60+10 of a TRIBBLE capture point, maybe double that.
Jumping into a near-completed zone and taging 3 V-Rexes: 3120 Dil + 135 marks
Capturing 7 points and tagging/killing all 3 V'Rexes: 4980 Dil + 235 marks
(please correct me if I got the numbers wrong)
While that seems to be an ok'ish difference, it really isn't, since the time it takes to complete a zone 'the way gameplay probably was intended' is much longer than the time it takes to just 'collect' the endfight rewards.
- Getting full V'Rex fight rewards for shooting it or the medics once is ridiculous
- Getting roughly 2/3 of the 'maximum' reward for minimal effort is ridiculous
In order to get rewards, a character should be required to get more involved in the completion of a capture point, or the killing of a V'Rex.
Aditionally/alternatively, the pure tagging of the three V'Rexes should not result in any additional, or just very minimal rewards. 3x 480 Dil and 3x 25 marks should be more than enough for that kind of lazy procedure.
The final reward should depend largely on your participation in capturing the zone, not just tagging the end bosses.
In other words, your rewards should depend on the number of points/objectives secured, your actual participation in the zone, multiplied/modified by the number of V'Rexes killed at the end. The V'Rexes should yield only a small amount themselves, like the 60+10 of a TRIBBLE capture point, maybe double that.
Devs should rethink the whole concept.
Well, personally I agree they should increase the rewards for capturing points and maybe halve or quarter the rewards for killing the Rexes. Like you said the rewards are heavily imbalanced.
I think tracking zone participation is too much data to store though. IMO it'd be better to just give the reward each time a point gets capped, and be done with it.
It'd shift the balance greatly and give people an incentive to run the whole zone and not just tag.... Because unlike what a certain individual keeps claiming.... most taggers aren't superheroes who can kill all six medics at each silo(18 total) and tag each dino by themselves. Actually most don't even try. They just hit the dinos and run.
It really not that hard to whack the dinos in sequence. You don't need to tag to whack more than one. All it takes is one guy killing Medics to keep a silo from failing. ONE. I've been that guy. Taggers will never be that guy because they don't stick around.
-Does it impact your rewards if someone is afk? - No (well not that I know of any ways)
-Are you a team player or solo and which ever one you pick do you mind if people are not that?
- Do you want to be rewarded more for doing more? If so, how do we track that and create a system for that?
- If damage is a measure of contribution, in the sense that you (the players) are asking for other players not to be able to "shoot the rex once" and then claim the rewards when it dies... are you not alienating players who don't have XII gear? How can I complete with you if I don't have that damage output?
I have found the event to be soloable for the most part, i have died, been over run and so on. I don't think i can kill the rex on my own. I can take points on my own usually. I like the idea of splitting up, I like the idea of being one of several teams working to capture points across the map, like a small infiltration unit. Teamwork is great, but it doesn't have to be a requirement, rather the game encourages it, the way it should be.
It's not pefect I agree, but is it really so bad? you can get in, do the objectives and get out.
I really like the zone, i actually felt like a war is happening. It feels more dynamic, even though its not that dynamic. But its still good.
-Does it impact your rewards if someone is afk? - No (well not that I know of any ways)
-Are you a team player or solo and which ever one you pick do you mind if people are not that?
- Do you want to be rewarded more for doing more? If so, how do we track that and create a system for that?
- If damage is a measure of contribution, in the sense that you (the players) are asking for other players not to be able to "shoot the rex once" and then claim the rewards when it dies... are you not alienating players who don't have XII gear? How can I complete with you if I don't have that damage output?
I have found the event to be soloable for the most part, i have died, been over run and so on. I don't think i can kill the rex on my own. I can take points on my own usually. I like the idea of splitting up, I like the idea of being one of several teams working to capture points across the map, like a small infiltration unit. Teamwork is great, but it doesn't have to be a requirement, rather the game encourages it, the way it should be.
It's not pefect I agree, but is it really so bad? you can get in, do the objectives and get out.
I really like the zone, i actually felt like a war is happening. It feels more dynamic, even though its not that dynamic. But its still good.
1. Dyson Battlefield scales based on number of people in zone. My no-rep Rommie Medic can solo a generator site when the zone's "empty", I get mauled by 3x Spec Ops when the zone is "full". AFKers contribute to the zone being "full" but are not contributing to the zone completion...
2. I tend to solo, and have no problem with "teams".
3. I'm not necessarily looking for "more" rewards based on what I do in the zone, the payouts are quite nice already, too much more and it'll get a visit from the nerf orbital strike (much bigger than a nerf hammer...). However, I am of a mind that things like tagging, ninja looting the reinforcement coins, etc. need to be discouraged / eliminated. For example, if a zone drops 20 reinforcement coins on clearing, and upon clearing there are 4 people in the zone, each one of them should get 5 coins with the marks/dil for the clearing. V-Rexes themselves should not pay anything, or, if they have to pay, make them marks only and instead of giving 1600 or 2100 for 3 dino kills increase it by the 1440 that tagging all 3 dinos pays...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
I think tracking zone participation is too much data to store though. IMO it'd be better to just give the reward each time a point gets capped, and be done with it.
They're already tracking zone participation to some degree, though. You get a slightly increased dilithium reward if you've participated in a certain number of point captures + tagged rexes. Modifying the whole completion reward to be based off of point capture count is just using data that is clearly already being collected.
I do not know the mechanics of the map, thanks for that info.
Im not sure about the coin drop, you only need one LT and LT COMM to complete the daily quest. beyond that its up to you how you spend what you get, I see what you mean about someone running in and taking the coins before you get there. Hmm.
As for rex's... i didn't know you get that much from them now. I feel like your point is that people wait around in command then rush out to claim the rewards from them without helping to get to that point on the map. Can't say i've noticed that. Interesting. Bizzare kinda, reminds me of people waiting afk in pvp instances in WOW.... oh that stupid Alterac Valley. How i hated it.
I havent noticed this much..... i run around solo, before the timer resets, i take the teleporter to the outskirts, then cap the teleporter first, then a couple outskirts points, no one else is usually around, so this nets me enough for 3 dailies (re-inforcements, credit drop, and capture), and while capping points, i end up completing the kill voth ones.
so, since i complete all my dailies in that one run, i usually help finish capping and ighting the V-Rex's, and call it a day from the battlezone. since im focusing on dyson rep with my main before starting with alts, i find this method easy.
One thought for helping prevent taggers, when T-rex fight starts, all Dyson Ground transporters go OFFLINE , when the first T-rex falls, transporters go online. Taggers may run to command center and run to other Rex, but this might take a lot of their time, and maybe they will help make the first t-rex fall faster....and for those who wait in command for the rex to show, this will put a little wrench in their plans also.....Just a thought.
I don't think the issue with the battlezone is taggers in general, I think it is more of an issue with unskilled/unknowledgeable players. I have seen zones fall because everyone abandoned them (taggers or from people staying in their areas), but I have seen just as many fall from people staying there and completely ignoring the medics.
As long as all the medics die it doesn't matter how the dynos die. The trick is to pay attention to omega levels (unless you are the only person killing medics in an area ofc), if you see one dropping you run to it. Even if everyone is running around tagging, there should still be time to save zones (especially if the taggers kill medics, even just one each on their way through).
Taggers should ALWAYS kill medics on their way through (it is the biggest contribution they can give prior to staying and killing the dynos).
As for the people who shoot the dyno once each and retreat to the command center...well they are just idiots (eventually they will lose dynos just from too many ending up in a zone together).
As for the people waiting in the command center for dynos and ignoring the other points to trigger the dynos. I know I have done that on accident a few times: I was doing other stuff--talking to people/managing fleet holdings...... and noticed then dynos were up and wasn't going to pass up the opportunity. Simple fix for that would be to add a shuttle back to the allied command center (I didn't care where I was at the time but its really annoying to get out of areas that are person dependent from the bz if you plan to be doing the bz again soon.
Advice for cryptic:
--Add some more reward for taking the smaller areas (artillery, generators, capture points) to encourage more participation. 60dil and 10 marks is stupid low for the amt of time it can take to capture some points.
--Add a shuttle back to allied hq from the battlezone (we already have the reverse, why don't we have this?) it would give idlers an option to leave areas where they count toward the difficulty w/o having to go too far out of their way. It also would give people easy access to bank/mail/exchange. It would even make sense thematically because we have shuttles going there, what do they do afterwards? explode, sit idle?
TIn other words, your rewards should depend on the number of points/objectives secured, your actual participation in the zone, multiplied/modified by the number of V'Rexes killed at the end. The V'Rexes should yield only a small amount themselves, like the 60+10 of a TRIBBLE capture point, maybe double that.
The problem with this idea is that it will render the zone uncompletable. Right NOW, if a player arrives in a zone near completion, they're going to want to stay for the final push.
Your proposal would cause the opposite response: That they will immediately opt to bugger off, and only FRESH zones will be desirable. You, having fought the zone from the beginning when it was small, are now left with the task of killing all 3 dinosaurs by yourself, since nobody else is particularly interested in receiving no reward for doing your work for you.
This is not an improvement.
Right NOW, each stage of the battlezone has a specific reward sought by a specific set of players. Not everyone wants everything, but somebody wants SOMETHING at any stage in the zone.
Well geez, I hope I didn't ruin anyone's day fumbling through the handful of times I tried the battlezone area before tossing in the towel on it. Maybe you should stop & consider that some folks are very disoriented & confused trying to figure out what in god's name to do in the right order. More often than not I was standing in the middle of, IDK, the "city squares" things trying to figure out where I was supposed to be advancing on.
All I'm saying is don't assume. I'm sure I didn't do it "by the book", and I'd not hesitate to chew you a new one for jumping to conclusions rather than honoring a learning curve.
One thought for helping prevent taggers, when T-rex fight starts, all Dyson Ground transporters go OFFLINE , when the first T-rex falls, transporters go online. Taggers may run to command center and run to other Rex, but this might take a lot of their time, and maybe they will help make the first t-rex fall faster....and for those who wait in command for the rex to show, this will put a little wrench in their plans also.....Just a thought.
This will not work either, there is a flaw in it. Instead of tagging all a player would have to do is leave a bridge officer AT&T he Dino spawn location. Since there damage counts as yours the could visit two of the three spawns and drop there bridge officer off to tag it for them. I have done this myself. It is a little more troublesome but I have tried to see if it will work.
The best way to fix this is to take the dilithium and divide it into contribution pots get rid of the Dino tagging. Keep the area rich in dilithium to keep players going to the battle zones.
Hard cap the zone to 20 players. With no soft cap. Increase the capture points to 150 dilithium and reduce the Dino to half. Give a 40k dilithium zone bonus for completing the entire zone. A player will get more of the 40k if they completing more of the battle zone. So it would work like this.
Player A is in the park capturing point he manages to captures 4 of the 7 point with or without help. All three areas have just about 7 capture points. Might not be entirely correct but close. Player B does the same thing in the outskirts but instead of 4 points he get 6 points captured. Once the the Dino's come out they attack their respective Dino. Player A will get 150 dilithium for 4 points he captured(each) and 250 for the for the Dino in the park and if all three Dino's go down the 40k dilithium bonus will be in effect. It will be decided among 20 players in the zone based on capturing points.
The players in the battle zone that helps captures the most amount of points get the biggest reward bonus from the bonus pool.
Here is how you break down the point tally.
1 point for a capture point
1 point for area mini boss (there are two in every area)
2 points for every Dino tagged
If you times this by 20 players you get the most amount of points that there are in a battle zone.
21 in capture points
6 in mini bosses
6 for Dino's.
That is 33 points in each battle zone max per player. 660 for all players. This is if each player in that zone hit s all points and helps out with all mini bosses, and hits every Dino.
Now you have to find away to award how much of the bonus dilithium. Based on the points each player earns. So based if player A did help out with 4 points one, mini boss and helps with all three Dino's. Player a would have 11 points. Let say the entire zone was worth 150 points because of how the players played in capturing it. Because total points in zone would change based on how fast and how many players are helping. So Player a would end up capturing 7.3% of the 40k dilithium based on his participation. His portion of the reward would b 2,933 dilithium. This is based off of taking his 11 points and dividing it into 150 to get his 7.3%. If player B captured 6 points three mini bossed and hit all three Dino's he would earn 15 points. If he was in the same zone as player A, playerB helped with 10% of the work. His part of the 40k bonus dilithium is 4000dilithium.
So player A earns 4,283 in dilithium
Player B earns 5,650
This is by all means, is not full proof. You would still have to have stipulations such as you have to still be in a capture zone when it is captured not tagging and going to another. The reward system needs to be based off participation not hit and run.
I have become a tagger, of sorts. Although I don't do it all the time, it is perfectly clear that it is the best way to get the most rewards out of the zone. I get that people are complaining about those who just tag and don't help, but that's not what I do, and I agree with doffingcomrade; tagging by itself does not harm at all. Even tagging I usually help take out two V-rex. Tag one, tag the other, go to the third and finish it off. Then run again and help out if the others are still alive. I sometimes don't tag, just stay and fight and can't do more than two. It makes no sense loosing dilithium and marks doing the same effort.
And so far I haven't been in a zone in which we don't get all three. And I'm talking at least playing four regular toons everyday.
So I have found myself gravitating to the battlezone on the advice of a couple fleetmates.
Now that people have become very efficient at this little game of running around and instance hopping... 20,000 raw dilithium in ONE HOUR is not at all unheard of.
I did it over and over and over and over again this weekend. (and im not just a tagger, i kill the medics when i come through, and stay for the kill in the last spot )
Between marks, rewards, and neural thingys I average 6-8 thousand ore a single run, and depending on how efficient everyone else is as the killing and moving on, I can do it every 5-10 minutes.
In total I have bagged over a quarter million dilithium (ore) in two days between my characters. Notbad.jpg
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Next time your on Ry we should team up my Dil is looking dangerously low xD on both my mains too. Dil reward from that zone is just incredible I just hope Cryptic don't nerf it because people moan about it too much. Look what happened to the space daily....
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Honestly, I don't know what the problem is. Yes, the rewards for converting each zone is small, so increase it. I certainly wouldn't mind a bigger pat on the back for doing the dirty work. Besides, provided I can find a teammate, the zones aren't even that frustrating, so why wouldn't I do them?
As for the final fight, I say nothing changes. People have a problem with tagging? That's the most efficient way of fighting the boss, and you aren't looking at the big picture. Yeah, let's say I'm a tagger. If I'm the only one playing a map, of course nothing's gonna get done, but since we have a ton of taggers all starting at a different V-Rex, by the time they tag all 3 they will have settled on the last one they tagged, kill it, then come back to finish the rest. The ONLY difference between me and you is that for the first few minutes I will have ensured greater rewards for myself before playing it out as intended.
In short, taggers aren't harming the game, and I can't think of a reason why anyone would be unhappy with them.
The AFKers are self-explanatory - they don't move. They don't get rewards. I don't know why they're there, but STO kicks you out of the server if you're AFK for more than an hour.
So I have found myself gravitating to the battlezone on the advice of a couple fleetmates.
Now that people have become very efficient at this little game of running around and instance hopping... 20,000 raw dilithium in ONE HOUR is not at all unheard of.
I did it over and over and over and over again this weekend. (and im not just a tagger, i kill the medics when i come through, and stay for the kill in the last spot )
Between marks, rewards, and neural thingys I average 6-8 thousand ore a single run, and depending on how efficient everyone else is as the killing and moving on, I can do it every 5-10 minutes.
In total I have bagged over a quarter million dilithium (ore) in two days between my characters. Notbad.jpg
This is by far the easiest and I still don't get all the gripes about people who just want to run around and tag stuff. I don't care... they are not in my way. Those people come in handy at the end. I usually try to get two v-rex at the end and I stay until all is done. I think most people assume that because people are running around they aren't staying to do any work at any one dino but I don't believe that's the case. This is where I go for all my dilithium except for the mining claims and some PvP occasionally.
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Comments
I really like how you promote what you are doing with such fervor, but if everyone would act like you, there wouldn't be any progress at all in the zones. There is no necessity for you to be there, but there is for other players actually playing in the battlezone.
The perfectly run battlezone would play like this:
1. About 6-8 "Daily Mission" Pioneers spread out and capture their 2 two points, getting the BZ Credits and spending them to fill their dailies. Once the zone is about ready to pop, with only one point, near the Rex Spawn, ready to pop...
2. The Rex Taggers Move In. They split into 3 groups, distributed to each of the 3 spawns. The final zone is capped, and the Battle Zone enters its final stage.
3. The taggers kill the medics, tag the dino, then die and move clockwise to the next dino, repeating the process until the last Dino. No one rashly kills a dino and denies the rest of the zone full rewards.
4. Kill the last Dino.
Result: The battlezone runs smoothly and in accordance with the procedures I have described here. Everyone receives full rewards. Life is good.
For the most part, the common schlub battlezone runs much like described, except that inept buffoons tend to try their hardest to TRIBBLE up step 3, either by failing to shoot the medics, failing to die in a timely manner, or trying too hard to kill a dino prior to allowing everyone a chance to tag it. This in turn forces the battlezone to be run in a less than ideal, generally much more stressful manner, as people have to run extra fast to get to their spots, distribution becomes uneven, and people like you whine constantly.
And the truth is, even the people you consider to be leeches still at least make some contribution to the zone: They act as rush-retardant, taking up space to prevent too many impulsive people from wrecking the zone prematurely. By not actively participating in the dino-shooting at all, they slow down the kill rate, allowing everyone to get their tag in. Unless you think the control rods in the nuclear reactor that slow down the reaction are useless, even these people serve a purpose: Pull them out and you get a meltdown.
I think you missed the afk'rs that are waiting at the rex spawn..
So your solution will not work !!
They must make it so that you need to atleast did 5 zones before you get anything from the rex.
My character Tsin'xing
Not normally worried about stuff like this but when theres only 1 or 2 of us killing a dino while 6 or 7 taggers run in shoot it once before heading to the next it gets a bit frustrating.
The area fails. Everyone gets less reward. But if anyone had left, they would have risked getting NO reward. I don't think you'd consider this to be an improvement.
It gets worse: Because the respawn point is often far away from the dino, let's say a mortar strike manages to kill half your group. They all just lie there dead, because to respawn is to forfeit.
And all this brought about because certain people who don't understand how to actually run BZ complained about how to do it correctly.
No one said anything about not getting a reward until all three are dead. You'd still get your rewards as soon as it dies and be free to move on to the next dino.
My character Tsin'xing
Furthermore, such a change would render the battlezone less appealing. This would mean that fewer players are present, further increasing the risk of failure, which, again, reduces your pay.
This is not really a good thing. Isn't it better that everyone gets the full reward? In the beginning, many believed what you believed, and would fight it out only in their zone, never relocating. Failure rates were, naturally, quite high, as a result, as undertended zones did not receive circulation. Nowadays it is exceedingly rare for a zone to fail and everyone gets the 3/3 reward. You want to go BACK to that?
Jumping into a near-completed zone and taging 3 V-Rexes: 3120 Dil + 135 marks
Capturing 7 points and tagging/killing all 3 V'Rexes: 4980 Dil + 235 marks
(please correct me if I got the numbers wrong)
While that seems to be an ok'ish difference, it really isn't, since the time it takes to complete a zone 'the way gameplay probably was intended' is much longer than the time it takes to just 'collect' the endfight rewards.
- Getting full V'Rex fight rewards for shooting it or the medics once is ridiculous
- Getting roughly 2/3 of the 'maximum' reward for minimal effort is ridiculous
In order to get rewards, a character should be required to get more involved in the completion of a capture point, or the killing of a V'Rex.
Aditionally/alternatively, the pure tagging of the three V'Rexes should not result in any additional, or just very minimal rewards. 3x 480 Dil and 3x 25 marks should be more than enough for that kind of lazy procedure.
The final reward should depend largely on your participation in capturing the zone, not just tagging the end bosses.
In other words, your rewards should depend on the number of points/objectives secured, your actual participation in the zone, multiplied/modified by the number of V'Rexes killed at the end. The V'Rexes should yield only a small amount themselves, like the 60+10 of a TRIBBLE capture point, maybe double that.
Devs should rethink the whole concept.
I think tracking zone participation is too much data to store though. IMO it'd be better to just give the reward each time a point gets capped, and be done with it.
It'd shift the balance greatly and give people an incentive to run the whole zone and not just tag.... Because unlike what a certain individual keeps claiming.... most taggers aren't superheroes who can kill all six medics at each silo(18 total) and tag each dino by themselves. Actually most don't even try. They just hit the dinos and run.
It really not that hard to whack the dinos in sequence. You don't need to tag to whack more than one. All it takes is one guy killing Medics to keep a silo from failing. ONE. I've been that guy. Taggers will never be that guy because they don't stick around.
My character Tsin'xing
-Does it impact your rewards if someone is afk? - No (well not that I know of any ways)
-Are you a team player or solo and which ever one you pick do you mind if people are not that?
- Do you want to be rewarded more for doing more? If so, how do we track that and create a system for that?
- If damage is a measure of contribution, in the sense that you (the players) are asking for other players not to be able to "shoot the rex once" and then claim the rewards when it dies... are you not alienating players who don't have XII gear? How can I complete with you if I don't have that damage output?
I have found the event to be soloable for the most part, i have died, been over run and so on. I don't think i can kill the rex on my own. I can take points on my own usually. I like the idea of splitting up, I like the idea of being one of several teams working to capture points across the map, like a small infiltration unit. Teamwork is great, but it doesn't have to be a requirement, rather the game encourages it, the way it should be.
It's not pefect I agree, but is it really so bad? you can get in, do the objectives and get out.
I really like the zone, i actually felt like a war is happening. It feels more dynamic, even though its not that dynamic. But its still good.
1. Dyson Battlefield scales based on number of people in zone. My no-rep Rommie Medic can solo a generator site when the zone's "empty", I get mauled by 3x Spec Ops when the zone is "full". AFKers contribute to the zone being "full" but are not contributing to the zone completion...
2. I tend to solo, and have no problem with "teams".
3. I'm not necessarily looking for "more" rewards based on what I do in the zone, the payouts are quite nice already, too much more and it'll get a visit from the nerf orbital strike (much bigger than a nerf hammer...). However, I am of a mind that things like tagging, ninja looting the reinforcement coins, etc. need to be discouraged / eliminated. For example, if a zone drops 20 reinforcement coins on clearing, and upon clearing there are 4 people in the zone, each one of them should get 5 coins with the marks/dil for the clearing. V-Rexes themselves should not pay anything, or, if they have to pay, make them marks only and instead of giving 1600 or 2100 for 3 dino kills increase it by the 1440 that tagging all 3 dinos pays...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
They're already tracking zone participation to some degree, though. You get a slightly increased dilithium reward if you've participated in a certain number of point captures + tagged rexes. Modifying the whole completion reward to be based off of point capture count is just using data that is clearly already being collected.
I do not know the mechanics of the map, thanks for that info.
Im not sure about the coin drop, you only need one LT and LT COMM to complete the daily quest. beyond that its up to you how you spend what you get, I see what you mean about someone running in and taking the coins before you get there. Hmm.
As for rex's... i didn't know you get that much from them now. I feel like your point is that people wait around in command then rush out to claim the rewards from them without helping to get to that point on the map. Can't say i've noticed that. Interesting. Bizzare kinda, reminds me of people waiting afk in pvp instances in WOW.... oh that stupid Alterac Valley. How i hated it.
Thanks for info/clairfication
so, since i complete all my dailies in that one run, i usually help finish capping and ighting the V-Rex's, and call it a day from the battlezone. since im focusing on dyson rep with my main before starting with alts, i find this method easy.
One thought for helping prevent taggers, when T-rex fight starts, all Dyson Ground transporters go OFFLINE , when the first T-rex falls, transporters go online. Taggers may run to command center and run to other Rex, but this might take a lot of their time, and maybe they will help make the first t-rex fall faster....and for those who wait in command for the rex to show, this will put a little wrench in their plans also.....Just a thought.
As long as all the medics die it doesn't matter how the dynos die. The trick is to pay attention to omega levels (unless you are the only person killing medics in an area ofc), if you see one dropping you run to it. Even if everyone is running around tagging, there should still be time to save zones (especially if the taggers kill medics, even just one each on their way through).
Taggers should ALWAYS kill medics on their way through (it is the biggest contribution they can give prior to staying and killing the dynos).
As for the people who shoot the dyno once each and retreat to the command center...well they are just idiots (eventually they will lose dynos just from too many ending up in a zone together).
As for the people waiting in the command center for dynos and ignoring the other points to trigger the dynos. I know I have done that on accident a few times: I was doing other stuff--talking to people/managing fleet holdings...... and noticed then dynos were up and wasn't going to pass up the opportunity. Simple fix for that would be to add a shuttle back to the allied command center (I didn't care where I was at the time but its really annoying to get out of areas that are person dependent from the bz if you plan to be doing the bz again soon.
Advice for cryptic:
--Add some more reward for taking the smaller areas (artillery, generators, capture points) to encourage more participation. 60dil and 10 marks is stupid low for the amt of time it can take to capture some points.
--Add a shuttle back to allied hq from the battlezone (we already have the reverse, why don't we have this?) it would give idlers an option to leave areas where they count toward the difficulty w/o having to go too far out of their way. It also would give people easy access to bank/mail/exchange. It would even make sense thematically because we have shuttles going there, what do they do afterwards? explode, sit idle?
Your proposal would cause the opposite response: That they will immediately opt to bugger off, and only FRESH zones will be desirable. You, having fought the zone from the beginning when it was small, are now left with the task of killing all 3 dinosaurs by yourself, since nobody else is particularly interested in receiving no reward for doing your work for you.
This is not an improvement.
Right NOW, each stage of the battlezone has a specific reward sought by a specific set of players. Not everyone wants everything, but somebody wants SOMETHING at any stage in the zone.
All I'm saying is don't assume. I'm sure I didn't do it "by the book", and I'd not hesitate to chew you a new one for jumping to conclusions rather than honoring a learning curve.
This will not work either, there is a flaw in it. Instead of tagging all a player would have to do is leave a bridge officer AT&T he Dino spawn location. Since there damage counts as yours the could visit two of the three spawns and drop there bridge officer off to tag it for them. I have done this myself. It is a little more troublesome but I have tried to see if it will work.
The best way to fix this is to take the dilithium and divide it into contribution pots get rid of the Dino tagging. Keep the area rich in dilithium to keep players going to the battle zones.
Hard cap the zone to 20 players. With no soft cap. Increase the capture points to 150 dilithium and reduce the Dino to half. Give a 40k dilithium zone bonus for completing the entire zone. A player will get more of the 40k if they completing more of the battle zone. So it would work like this.
Player A is in the park capturing point he manages to captures 4 of the 7 point with or without help. All three areas have just about 7 capture points. Might not be entirely correct but close. Player B does the same thing in the outskirts but instead of 4 points he get 6 points captured. Once the the Dino's come out they attack their respective Dino. Player A will get 150 dilithium for 4 points he captured(each) and 250 for the for the Dino in the park and if all three Dino's go down the 40k dilithium bonus will be in effect. It will be decided among 20 players in the zone based on capturing points.
The players in the battle zone that helps captures the most amount of points get the biggest reward bonus from the bonus pool.
Here is how you break down the point tally.
1 point for a capture point
1 point for area mini boss (there are two in every area)
2 points for every Dino tagged
If you times this by 20 players you get the most amount of points that there are in a battle zone.
21 in capture points
6 in mini bosses
6 for Dino's.
That is 33 points in each battle zone max per player. 660 for all players. This is if each player in that zone hit s all points and helps out with all mini bosses, and hits every Dino.
Now you have to find away to award how much of the bonus dilithium. Based on the points each player earns. So based if player A did help out with 4 points one, mini boss and helps with all three Dino's. Player a would have 11 points. Let say the entire zone was worth 150 points because of how the players played in capturing it. Because total points in zone would change based on how fast and how many players are helping. So Player a would end up capturing 7.3% of the 40k dilithium based on his participation. His portion of the reward would b 2,933 dilithium. This is based off of taking his 11 points and dividing it into 150 to get his 7.3%. If player B captured 6 points three mini bossed and hit all three Dino's he would earn 15 points. If he was in the same zone as player A, playerB helped with 10% of the work. His part of the 40k bonus dilithium is 4000dilithium.
So player A earns 4,283 in dilithium
Player B earns 5,650
This is by all means, is not full proof. You would still have to have stipulations such as you have to still be in a capture zone when it is captured not tagging and going to another. The reward system needs to be based off participation not hit and run.
And so far I haven't been in a zone in which we don't get all three. And I'm talking at least playing four regular toons everyday.
Now that people have become very efficient at this little game of running around and instance hopping... 20,000 raw dilithium in ONE HOUR is not at all unheard of.
I did it over and over and over and over again this weekend. (and im not just a tagger, i kill the medics when i come through, and stay for the kill in the last spot
Between marks, rewards, and neural thingys I average 6-8 thousand ore a single run, and depending on how efficient everyone else is as the killing and moving on, I can do it every 5-10 minutes.
In total I have bagged over a quarter million dilithium (ore) in two days between my characters. Notbad.jpg
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As for the final fight, I say nothing changes. People have a problem with tagging? That's the most efficient way of fighting the boss, and you aren't looking at the big picture. Yeah, let's say I'm a tagger. If I'm the only one playing a map, of course nothing's gonna get done, but since we have a ton of taggers all starting at a different V-Rex, by the time they tag all 3 they will have settled on the last one they tagged, kill it, then come back to finish the rest. The ONLY difference between me and you is that for the first few minutes I will have ensured greater rewards for myself before playing it out as intended.
In short, taggers aren't harming the game, and I can't think of a reason why anyone would be unhappy with them.
The AFKers are self-explanatory - they don't move. They don't get rewards. I don't know why they're there, but STO kicks you out of the server if you're AFK for more than an hour.
This is by far the easiest and I still don't get all the gripes about people who just want to run around and tag stuff. I don't care... they are not in my way. Those people come in handy at the end. I usually try to get two v-rex at the end and I stay until all is done. I think most people assume that because people are running around they aren't staying to do any work at any one dino but I don't believe that's the case. This is where I go for all my dilithium except for the mining claims and some PvP occasionally.
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