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Convenience vs Community
animusredwing
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Hi
Just wanted to discuss the growing "convenience" in this game that is really making this Star trek Solo online. Some recent developments that have reduced social zones and gatherings of people.
- No moderation of zone chat, so most people avoid it. Community fractured around many specialty channels, many of them private. A newbie would not know these channels unless someone told them.
-voice chat is abysmal, only heard a few people use it in 3 years playing.
- ability to transwarp pretty much anywhere, so no need to travel or see anyone in space.
- new gear switching system coming which will mean you will not have to dock at ESD/Quonos/DS9 etc.
- ability to do lots of services through fleet system (exchange, bank, respect, boff training, mail, doff grinder, vendor with best gear) all in the fleet system.
-Reputation gear available through UI rather than physical vendor in new romulus/omega task force/new romulus/nukara/ds9.
-new rep systems do not need commodities or personal consumables, so yet another reason not to go to a social zone to buy them.
-doffing is a completely solo affair.
-gateway allows you to manage fleet without even being in game.
-more queues, even Nukara is now in a queue, so no need to physically be at the planet.
My question to the group/devs is, how can this be addressed in any meaningful way. It seems every effort has been made to make the game convenient and quick, rather than feeling immersive and build any kind of community.
Back in the day when you have the old stfs, people hang around the planets, chatting and making groups. Might not have been convenient but at least you got to meet players. Theres really no need to talk to anyone in game or have any kind of interaction or go to a zone outside of your fleet or instanced pve/pvp map.
Just wanted to discuss the growing "convenience" in this game that is really making this Star trek Solo online. Some recent developments that have reduced social zones and gatherings of people.
- No moderation of zone chat, so most people avoid it. Community fractured around many specialty channels, many of them private. A newbie would not know these channels unless someone told them.
-voice chat is abysmal, only heard a few people use it in 3 years playing.
- ability to transwarp pretty much anywhere, so no need to travel or see anyone in space.
- new gear switching system coming which will mean you will not have to dock at ESD/Quonos/DS9 etc.
- ability to do lots of services through fleet system (exchange, bank, respect, boff training, mail, doff grinder, vendor with best gear) all in the fleet system.
-Reputation gear available through UI rather than physical vendor in new romulus/omega task force/new romulus/nukara/ds9.
-new rep systems do not need commodities or personal consumables, so yet another reason not to go to a social zone to buy them.
-doffing is a completely solo affair.
-gateway allows you to manage fleet without even being in game.
-more queues, even Nukara is now in a queue, so no need to physically be at the planet.
My question to the group/devs is, how can this be addressed in any meaningful way. It seems every effort has been made to make the game convenient and quick, rather than feeling immersive and build any kind of community.
Back in the day when you have the old stfs, people hang around the planets, chatting and making groups. Might not have been convenient but at least you got to meet players. Theres really no need to talk to anyone in game or have any kind of interaction or go to a zone outside of your fleet or instanced pve/pvp map.
REDWING (fed), DOQ TEL SUVWI'S (kdf)
FED TIER 5 KDF TIER 4 - MAX HOLDINGS
All welcome, pm @animusrevertendi
Join us on Teamspeak! Visit our Website!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]FED TIER 5 KDF TIER 4 - MAX HOLDINGS
All welcome, pm @animusrevertendi
Join us on Teamspeak! Visit our Website!
Post edited by animusredwing on
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As for many things you said, like traveling in sector space, or walking in ESD, I don't see how it is building a community to move to your destination while watching TV like I used to do.
Having useless and sometimes tedious tasks to do where people are gathered is not a way to build a community.
Communities are built in the forum, and in the fleet/guild or whatever it's called in a game. It's also built through grouping. Private/public channels also help.
All of that are available. It's sad you can't see it.
FED TIER 5 KDF TIER 4 - MAX HOLDINGS
All welcome, pm @animusrevertendi
Join us on Teamspeak! Visit our Website!
sure they are coming out with content that forces you to play with others.. but every other aspect of this game is solo.. and ive played a lot of solo star trek games.. I want a true mmo experience in the star trek world..
the biggest problem I see is that almost every single group even is nothing but a dps race.. all the stf's are about killing stuff as quick as you can.. there is almost nothing that makes you have to think, or work together.. even kase is getting bad.. u used to have to split the group, and focus fire.. now, everyone just does what they want.. and you can still get through it..
so if tac is all about dps, and this game is about dps.. then what about having objectives for engineers and sci.. scan this, fix that.. while the tacs keep the enemy off your back.. a great example is infected ground.. you've got three people running and jumping and having to work together, while two peeps in the middle or however you run it keep everything clear and off your back..
There are plenty of like minded rpers, you just need to find their right community and right channels.
But no, you won't force everyone to play your way. Had that been the case, sto would've been shut down by now.:rolleyes:
I play other games including rift and wow.. you know how many times someone stops me and starts a convo (who was just walking by) over a piece of gear, a pet, or my name or what not.. you might not think walking around has anything to do with an mmo, but, the very definition of an mmo is large amounts of people interacting, and working towards a common goal..
just because you watch tv while you play doesn't mean everyone else is.. that is like saying because you like facial hair, everyone else does.. I for one do not have a tv near my computer.. and when I play, I do play with fleet mates, but I have met a ton of awesome people just because of my name, or something I said in chat, or someone asking about my ship.. or my costume.. or the random dance parties that used to happen.. stuff like that has disappeared in this game.. I remember when you used to enter a system, and be randomly put into a group to do that mission (if others were doing it).. I havnt had that happen in like forever..
anyone who doesn't like what an mmo is, is free to go and get star trek legacy, or any of the other console/computer single player games.. why does everything have to be the way the solo player wants it.. all I see is I want I want and change this and change that.. I hate aspects of this game.. and guess what. instead of demanding they remove it or what not, I just ignore it.. and play other aspects of the game..
You're missing the point.
The people who want the convenience are likely the people who would never have stopped to talk to you in the first place. People who think like you do should probably just do what they've always done.
Quoted For Truth.
Thanks for saving me typing all this out myself.
and I will keep doing what ive been doing.. however, what the op is trying to say is that they are changing the game in a way where it is making this game feel more like im alone in here..
I remember beaming down to space dock, and not being able to get into my friends instance to trade something, or what not.. now.. no one needs to cause everything is done elsewhere.. with the introduction of swapping ships in space (which makes no sense.. lol) no one will need to come to the social zone.. you have your azure com item to get your exchange anywhere.. and instanced fleet starbases have everything else..
I am in a fleet, we are social with eachother, but I remember it being easier to recruit a year ago than it is today, cause no one is ever in the social zones anymore..
and the op is right.. cryptic needs to stuff their fists down the vagrants that another poster was talking about.. there is more spam and bs in this game, than anyother I play, cause it goes unchecked..
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"Nice legs" (I'm really quoting that one)
"Your character is pretty"
"I don't know what skirt it is".
I really felt a sense of community. I also had several "want to join my fleet ?".
Otherwise, I used publicelitestf to talk about stf, or help some people. And I used DPS 5K to talk a bit about builds and stuff. This is community. Having a "nice legs" from a stranger in a social map is not.
And I'm not starting with the Drozana discussions I heard.
well that sucks.. and is a direct result of them not having any means of stopping people from doing that..
ive been with this game since beta, and boy, the first few years were good.. you had mostly star trek fans who all wanted to talk about star trek and what not.. then they chased all of them away, and went free to play which is kind of like converting an apartment complex into section 8 housing.. and we have what we have today.. a bunch of 12 year olds running around acting like idiots..
Having to deal with people is the nature of the beast. That said, looks like you encountered some creatures of your own.
We can't just drop another "M" because people are awkward though. That would leave us with... MO... Multiplayer Online.
Well, it would be hard to complain about the game not conforming to specifications though.
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Zone chats - I have always avoided them. Since they are mostly rubbish talk. All games are like this. Played WoW for years and I always had that feature turned off when I entered cities. This is what your fleet and friends for. Chat to them. This is what I did.
Voice Chats - I rarely do it since I no longer play in groups. Plus I mainly play while my wife is sleeping. So I just listen to my headphones. Not a good situation of me playing and waking her up.
New Gear/ship swapping - Your not forced to do it. You can still go to the docks. I will still go to the docks since I mostly RP. However if the need arise I can make use out of the swap.
Fleet perks - All games has this, and many loves it. That is why many joins and be in one. Your not forced to do this either.
Rep gear not having vendors. The stations has a Dil vendor. So you can still go there. Or visit a normal vendor and select from your UI. And get it, to act like you bought it from him. Your not forced to use the UI buying either. I go to a physical person on this as well for my RP experience.
Ques for groups - All games do this as well. WoW got away from meeting at a meeting stone. I'm glad of that, cause I don't have to sit at one spot for hours waiting on the other person. To finally make up their mind to get there. So I'm glad you don't have to sit there and wait it out. If you want to you can go there yourself and sit and wait for the que to pop. i rather be in dock doing stuff, or out doing other stuff. Not sit around waiting.
All these changes are actually good for gaming.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Zone chat is largely dependent on the zone you are in. If everything is rubbish all the time everywhere, the problem is a personal one, for it is not possible for all the players to talk rubbish all the time, when you get away from the central areas at least! You don't like people? Personal problem. There is no way around that one. Besides, this is not that other game.
And why should a personal need to keep quiet, dictate that the game should not maintain its own systems properly? That is just... a strange concept.
About the ship swapping, I have played MMOs for a long time. The "not forced to" argument is like saying that the river should not flow where it must. Effectively, this is a redirection of traffic. You can on your own do something else. Ineffectively. That always works out very great in MMOs. Not. You can actually RP in a Shooter as well. It is just not a good idea. No time. And no time here either it seems. :P
"Guilds" have not exactly been made hugely optional in this game. You can do fine without them, true. But they represent the final tier of equipment, now that is a little more than "perks". You are not forced to level either.
The rep projects are all buttons and windows. Probably hard to see for all the buttons and the windows. I get that problem a lot, not seeing the forest for all the trees. It is like that river again, this time you need a dam buster. It's full stop.
Grouping has been automated a lot lately, this is true. With ugly results you would never get when you plan them yourself. Which you should, by getting to know people. You don't get to know people, when you're automated into random groups, never to meet them again.
"Gaming" is a rather vague concept...
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But honestly I've seen everything from queues to the addition of a new social areas as the reason community has died in a MMO. So I have a hard time thinking that it's somethign programmers have killed by adding convenience features and more the natural evolution of MMO communities.
Your not suppose to quite the person. You leave the channel. That is what I do. Most of the time I visit the main bases its rubbish to a degree. So the channel is changed. You have that option if you don't want to see it. I don't mind people, but there is a difference between decent talks and rubbish. If its being decent I will keep the channel up. My channel is mostly on the Fleet chat. That is where most of my friends are.
Most games give the best gear with groups. WoW you have to be in groups to get some kind of reward to collect. Then cash in for gear. So this game is not much different than that. But it all depends on the person. I mainly solo due to time I have to play. So having the best gear really don't matter to me. As long your having fun with what your doing.
Most ques are like that. Unless you go into a group. I did one STF on the game a while back to try it. Went in with my fellow fleet members. We all had fun. So your not forced to use the que system either. Cause we didn't use the que system.
The game has a lot of options to use. So anyone can do mostly want they want. Its all how you want to do it.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I use automation as well. It is indeed convenient. But I used to make friends in these games. It's just not happening anymore. Had plenty of them in City of Heroes, for example. And I'm not a lovable person or anything. This game is anti-social, and we follow the system. It is our own fault, probably. I can't remember if asking for team automation or not, when it was a new concept, and that scares me the most...
Now, this is not entirely the reason for these problems in STO, the game is very instanced and "area fragmented" in nature. So the general architecture is not as robust, and lacks the linked areas suitable for social activities, compared to some other titles.
Always the action game.
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Grouping for gear and guilding for gear, might be seen as connected. Storytelling time.
Sometimes miss the "Community Raids" of Anarchy Online, where you could circumvent both guild and group. Mostly because they expected you to be in a guild by design, but one ingenious player made an out-of-game contribution point system, where you could use the points to "bid" for the reward. You had to be manually added by showing up and say your name. They never thought of that one.
The reward was handed out by a trustee, looted from the corpse of the Boss baddie. He guarded the corpse to avoid someone ninja it, although it sometimes still happened. Then the highest bidder won, and the points were removed from your total. Then you were allowed to go and get your stuff. It was technically meant to be a competitive affair, where the strongest guilds should outgun all the rest. It was in PvP areas as well. Just to be sure. Everything was just cleared away, with deals or brute force otherwise. Mostly deals. :P
Ultimately you did not need to know the rest of them, that way either, the baddies were out in the open. The tank had like 20 core healers on him. They had to work together well as expected of course.
So you can have groups without a community, and a community without groups. Depending on circumstances. And we still got our end game gear. Until they added more levels, just to be awkward.
The point of the story? Well, we were absolutely 100% community driven, and never had to team or be in a guild. And all 150 at the raid behaved exemplary. No badmouthing, no excessive swearing. No childishness. Almost like you were in a guild! So communities can work. Maybe when they have to? Maybe when everything is automated, isolated, segregated, you stop caring. That is my theory... and in fact my experience.
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Community is built on.... whatever the players are doing right now. If the players aren't looking to team for Operation Gamma, then they're not gonna hang out in BU and ask for teams.
My character Tsin'xing
Still missing the point
Cryptic, or more likely PWE are simply catering to the "I want it all and I want it now, and I don't want to make any effort for it" crowd, which unfortunately makes up a large portion of any online gaming community, and it's the reason why I turn off Zone chat (especially near the 'home bases') and talk primarily to my Fleeties ...
No game company is going to pay to have dozens, if not hundreds of "moderators" in game 24/7 watching over things, though that is probably what the game "needs" to clean things up, it would never happen ... Imagine if all those "Admirals" wandering around ESD or SFA were actually real people, and you could ask them for advice or get missions from them, or even point out that twerp over there who keeps letting off grenades ... Imagine if the "Admiral" 'locked you in the brig, till you cool down' i.e Block you from entering Sector Space for 1 hour or something ... It would quickly clean up the trolls, but those same trolls would probably throw a hissy fit and rage quit the game, and they're sadly the ones who bring in revenue to PWE ...
But if you knew that ESD was a good place to go for help, advice or to just chat in a mature and friendly environment, who wouldn't want that? I tell you, the "Trolls"
...
On the "Automation" question ... I think that some of it is great, but some is just WRONG! ... Information should be easily accessible from space, so any Banking, Training, or Mail activities should be able to be done via "sub-space". Likewise you should be able to change yours and your crews wardrobe while in space, it seems silly to have replicator technology that can make Seismic Stabilizers while I'm out in the "zone" but I can't even change my pants???
But all other things should only be available from a home base somewhere ... The Exchange, any of the stores and certainly acquiring Ships, BoFF's or DoFF's should NEVER be available from space, with the exception of swapping to a Shuttle/Captains Gig on any ship larger than a heavy Escort, simply from a realism if not RP'ing point of view, that should never have been added to the game ...
Other mmo's have done a excellent job with that and lead to the community taking care of problems. If a player was a jerk or in some other way not pleasant to play with they didn't get invites to the content and soon either quit acting the way they were or left the game.
A mmo is about pushing your toon and about gaining more power to conquer larger and larger challenges. Cryptic seems really afraid to challenge it's players, they need to.
Agree completely,
Random players being sociable? LOL
Try saying hi in your next mission. It's amazing how few people do, or say it back.
This is where social opportunities are missed.
Actually, I perceive the difficulties in fleet recruitment due to the fact that recruiting has gotten a lot more competitive now that actually belonging to a fleet has it's own rewards.
Who wants to join a lower tiered fleet when you can hold out and join a larger one with more top tier shiny provisions?
But I see fleets as being the answer to the OP's concerns.
I was all alone when I first started many many moons ago.
But when you find the right fleet with a good bunch of peeps like I did, you're chattin away the night.
Cause I will be using very, very rarely. I love flying ship, and don't mind the time to fly to Ds9, ESD.
I read the Dev blog, and to me it seems that its for players that just don't have the time. Hence the word quick in quick equip load outs.
IDK, at the same time what will be the purpose of a ship selector if we can just do everything from our UI.
I guess we all will have to wait till release, maybe it wont be like anything we think it will be.
"This is Fleet Commander BumBle!..
Vice Admiral of the U.S.S. Prometheus!..
I order you to lower your shields and weapons or ill be forced to fire upon you!!!"
Me too.
Yes, bigger fleets have the bigger starbases and the shinier toys. But they also have teamspeak servers, chat moderation and frequent events and social get-togethers.
The tools for social activity already exist within game, and of course there is nothing to stop people getting in touch outside STO as well - in this forum or elsewhere.
You can't expect the game to do it for you.
I really like the management and quick equip/ship selection features coming up and I hope they'll work as good as they sound.