By this logic, we should be cool if Abrams' take on Star Wars in his new movies is that Jedi and Sith Lords use machineguns instead of lightsabers, have to wave a wand in order to use the powers of the force and wookies are furless, right? Right?
Furless, you mean like the new and improved Caitians from "Into Darkness"?
Making the TOS to TNG comparison is rather lame simply because everything in TOS looked rather simplictic compared to TNG, VOY, DS9 or anything following due to being the series' premiere with very limited budget, in an era where the costume making and makeup are at an early stage in the movie industry.
Klingons have looked like this since the moment the show could afford money and expertise to change them from the generic humans with tan-spray TOS Klingons.
I would extend their unique appearance. How many different variations of ridges have we seen throughout their time? What's wrong with a couple more?
This has nothing to do with changing times, special effects and makeup. This has to do with a single man's ego being bigger than the planet Jupiter.
I think this has a lot to do with hardcore fans not able to accept change. I get it, and I don't condemn you for it. However the new Trek films are partially for a different audience, they're not the typical science fiction Trek films that the older ones are, the newer ones are more your action packed science fiction films, they're darker, they're more modern, and they're not afraid to throw in the odd joke. Sure, the old films had humour, but it was a completely different kind.
To have a new take on Roddenberry's universe is one thing. To want to elementary change it because of pathologic need to leave a personal mark is something completely different.
It could have been changed a lot more. Save picking apart what's different, think about what's the same.
I know we are never going to see eye to eye on this, but I think it's worth noting that these films have been successful. That alone should say something about them.
Unless I am mistaken (in which case, feel free to correct me) there has been no clarification that those were actually Caitians. People just assume such because they happen to have had tails.
Unless I am mistaken (in which case, feel free to correct me) there has been no clarification that those were actually Caitians. People just assume such because they happen to have had tails.
Now I don't want to laugh anymore. I'll stick with crying.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I would extend their unique appearance. How many different variations of ridges have we seen throughout their time? What's wrong with a couple more?
But we're not talking about variations of forehead ridges here. Even if I turn a blind eye to the fact that we've never seen a fully grown mature Klingon male without facial hair, we're talking about frickin' piercings on a Klingon forehead here.
Anyone familiar with Star Trek will tell you that's just silly, hell, everyone with basic knowledge of humanoid anathomy could tell you just how unbelievably silly the idea of piercing through a skull is.
I think this has a lot to do with hardcore fans not able to accept change. I get it, and I don't condemn you for it. However the new Trek films are partially for a different audience, they're not the typical science fiction Trek films that the older ones are, the newer ones are more your action packed science fiction films, they're darker, they're more modern, and they're not afraid to throw in the odd joke. Sure, the old films had humour, but it was a completely different kind.
You have missed my point. I don't mind the general take of the new movies being more action oriented and darker. Actually my biggest gripe with them was that they seem incredibly dumbed down. That has nothing to do with me being a hardocre fan. I also think that Pirates of the Caribbean IV is incredibly dumbed down in comparison to the previous trilogy.
But that has nothing to do with what we're discussing here. Ambrams' team made a new setting for a new take on their movies, them being more of an action oriented and even threw them in a parallel universe in order to have some screenplay freedom. That's fine. What is not fine is messing with the elementary stuff in the franchise, like the species for example - erasing the Romulan ridges, attaching piercings to the Klingon ridges or turning the Vulcans into seemingly racists.
With franchises like ST, you can have some creative freedom but you are expected to follow the premise of the franchise. Because, what stops him from making Starfleet ships look like X-Wing fighters if he feels like it then?
It could have been changed a lot more. Save picking apart what's different, think about what's the same.
I'm not picking apart what is different and truth to be told, many things are similar but barely anything is quite the same.
I'm just making a remark that it's a stupid idea to mess with the established look/habits/traditions in a popular franchise that exists for more than 50 years in a vanity attempt of leaving a vague personal mark.
I know we are never going to see eye to eye on this, but I think it's worth noting that these films have been successful. That alone should say something about them.
It's not something we need to see eye to eye on, or not. I don't passionately hate the new movies like some people do. I found them entertaining on a certain level. I'm just pointing out that some stupid decisions were made and changing established species is one of them.
They have been succesfull, yes. Also, the Twilight saga has made a killing on the boxoffice, just as an example. I think that speaks more about the audience these days than the movies themselves.
I'm just making a remark that it's a stupid idea to mess with the established look/habits/traditions in a popular franchise that exists for more than 50 years in a vanity attempt of leaving a vague personal mark.
You know, I said the same thing about the new BSG, but everyone told me I was being stupid.
I guess it really all comes down to how much you care.
I don't care that JJ structured his klingons the way he did. I thought they looked cool and klingon-y. I enjoyed the movies, and I don't have any emotional investment in klingons -NOT- having head jewelry.
But I'll never forgive Ronald Moore for turning Starbuck into Stardoe.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
You know, I said the same thing about the new BSG, but everyone told me I was being stupid.
I guess it really all comes down to how much you care.
I don't care that JJ structured his klingons the way he did. I thought they looked cool and klingon-y. I enjoyed the movies, and I don't have any emotional investment in klingons -NOT- having head jewelry.
But I'll never forgive Ronald Moore for turning Starbuck into Stardoe.
HMM, to be fair NU and OLD BSG were set in entirely different universes that are totally unconnected. So it's a total reboot.
In this case the JJ and the Prime universe are seperate in the sense that their history is different from 2233 onwards. So it's more like choosing Windows ME instead of 2000 dufinr bootup.
I stand corrected, not that I have any reason to argue the point. Still (to be pedantic) could those Caitian not have ... I don't know .. shaved? :P
More to the point, in our former form we were a lot more hairy; we evolved and (for the most part) lost a lot of our body hair. From a biological and evolutionary stand point, wouldn't a feline species evolve like any other species? Perhalps Abrams has it right where Roddenberry had it wrong all these years.
Even if I turn a blind eye to the fact that we've never seen a fully grown mature Klingon male without facial hair, we're talking about frickin' piercings on a Klingon forehead here.
Anyone familiar with Star Trek will tell you that's just silly, hell, everyone with basic knowledge of humanoid anathomy could tell you just how unbelievably silly the idea of piercing through a skull is.
The Human anatomy maybe, but the Klingon anatomy is different to ours, and they're no doubt more durable. Well, we know they are. Klingons are stronger than Humans period.
You have missed my point. I don't mind the general take of the new movies being more action oriented and darker. Actually my biggest gripe with them was that they seem incredibly dumbed down. That has nothing to do with me being a hardocre fan. I also think that Pirates of the Caribbean IV is incredibly dumbed down in comparison to the previous trilogy.
I obviously enjoyed these new films a lot more than you. I don't think many people enjoyed the 4th incarnation of Pirates, the 1st film will always be the best.
With franchises like ST, you can have some creative freedom but you are expected to follow the premise of the franchise. Because, what stops him from making Starfleet ships look like X-Wing fighters if he feels like it then?
In my opinion, the new films are within the boundaries set within Trek. I admit there are differences, but for the most part I am willing to overlook them.
They have been succesfull, yes. Also, the Twilight saga has made a killing on the boxoffice, just as an example. I think that speaks more about the audience these days than the movies themselves.
You're no doubt quite right. It is about the audience. It would seem (for the most part) that the audience approved of what Abrams did. Honestly, if that Klingon took off his helmet in that film and looked TNG, I think it would have looked out of place.
I stand corrected, not that I have any reason to argue the point. Still (to be pedantic) could those Caitian not have ... I don't know .. shaved? :P
More to the point, in our former form we were a lot more hairy; we evolved and (for the most part) lost a lot of our body hair. From a biological and evolutionary stand point, wouldn't a feline species evolve like any other species? Perhalps Abrams has it right where Roddenberry had it wrong all these years.
Not sure if you're trolling at this point. And I don't actually care either way.
So I'll just assume that you think that if Abrams does something it is more right because it's Abrams.
So I'll just assume that you think that if Abrams does something it is more right because it's Abrams.
You assume incorrectly. My question was a perfectly valid one. Could it not be argued that a feline species, once evolved to a state that it can communicate (via speech) with other sentient life forms and stand on its hind legs have long since lost use for body hair?
More to the point, in our former form we were a lot more hairy; we evolved and (for the most part) lost a lot of our body hair. From a biological and evolutionary stand point, wouldn't a feline species evolve like any other species? Perhalps Abrams has it right where Roddenberry had it wrong all these years.
Yeah, JJ farts rainbows and strawberry bushes grow on the ground he walks on. :rolleyes:
By this logic, we should be cool if Abrams' take on Star Wars in his new movies is that Jedi and Sith Lords use machineguns instead of lightsabers, have to wave a wand in order to use the powers of the force and wookies are furless, right? Right?
This is a debate my buddy and I often have. I'm (expletive)ing angry about Lindeloff trying to claim the girls at the beginning of Into Darkness were Caitians, and keep pointing out that you can't be both a reboot and a continuation. If NimoySpock is meant to be NimoySpock from TOS, then everything should look the same. They're not being presented as a totally seperate multiverse, the movies are being presented as a Back to the Future II-esque divergent timeline. my buddy keeps trying to tell me to get over it and move on, but I keep pointing out he'd be angry if Chewie looked more like Barf from Spaceballs.
And seriously, what was with the Enterprise being built on the planet and not in orbit?
Let us upgrade the Seleya Ceremonial Lirpa and Kri'stak Blade
I stand corrected, not that I have any reason to argue the point. Still (to be pedantic) could those Caitian not have ... I don't know .. shaved? :P
More to the point, in our former form we were a lot more hairy; we evolved and (for the most part) lost a lot of our body hair. From a biological and evolutionary stand point, wouldn't a feline species evolve like any other species? Perhalps Abrams has it right where Roddenberry had it wrong all these years.
My take is that it's a trick of the light and they do have fine fur. In the comics, Mystique and Nightcrawler do. You don't notice unless you touch them though, since it's very short.
I obviously enjoyed these new films a lot more than you. I don't think many people enjoyed the 4th incarnation of Pirates, the 1st film will always be the best.
I did. It had a different story, because they concluded most of the plot threads from the previous movies. This of course also meant a new cast... But I liked the new characters.
In my case it has nothing to do with liking or disliking the new Star Trek movies or wheather I like how these I call "Blingons" look or not. I just think it's stupid and disrespectfull towards the franchise to start elementary changing the look/behavior/habits of established species.
Yeah like changing the Klingons between TOS and TNG .
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Comments
Furless, you mean like the new and improved Caitians from "Into Darkness"?
http://scifanatic.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/catgirls.jpg
All that has been established is that Klingons have ridges, which they did.
I would extend their unique appearance. How many different variations of ridges have we seen throughout their time? What's wrong with a couple more?
I think this has a lot to do with hardcore fans not able to accept change. I get it, and I don't condemn you for it. However the new Trek films are partially for a different audience, they're not the typical science fiction Trek films that the older ones are, the newer ones are more your action packed science fiction films, they're darker, they're more modern, and they're not afraid to throw in the odd joke. Sure, the old films had humour, but it was a completely different kind.
It could have been changed a lot more. Save picking apart what's different, think about what's the same.
I know we are never going to see eye to eye on this, but I think it's worth noting that these films have been successful. That alone should say something about them.
Unless I am mistaken (in which case, feel free to correct me) there has been no clarification that those were actually Caitians. People just assume such because they happen to have had tails.
http://www.startrek.com/article/exclusive-interview-damon-lindelof
You are mistaken.
Holy Targ, I am laughing. And crying. I am literally laughing and crying at the same time.
Now I don't want to laugh anymore. I'll stick with crying.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
But we're not talking about variations of forehead ridges here. Even if I turn a blind eye to the fact that we've never seen a fully grown mature Klingon male without facial hair, we're talking about frickin' piercings on a Klingon forehead here.
Anyone familiar with Star Trek will tell you that's just silly, hell, everyone with basic knowledge of humanoid anathomy could tell you just how unbelievably silly the idea of piercing through a skull is.
You have missed my point. I don't mind the general take of the new movies being more action oriented and darker. Actually my biggest gripe with them was that they seem incredibly dumbed down. That has nothing to do with me being a hardocre fan. I also think that Pirates of the Caribbean IV is incredibly dumbed down in comparison to the previous trilogy.
But that has nothing to do with what we're discussing here. Ambrams' team made a new setting for a new take on their movies, them being more of an action oriented and even threw them in a parallel universe in order to have some screenplay freedom. That's fine. What is not fine is messing with the elementary stuff in the franchise, like the species for example - erasing the Romulan ridges, attaching piercings to the Klingon ridges or turning the Vulcans into seemingly racists.
With franchises like ST, you can have some creative freedom but you are expected to follow the premise of the franchise. Because, what stops him from making Starfleet ships look like X-Wing fighters if he feels like it then?
I'm not picking apart what is different and truth to be told, many things are similar but barely anything is quite the same.
I'm just making a remark that it's a stupid idea to mess with the established look/habits/traditions in a popular franchise that exists for more than 50 years in a vanity attempt of leaving a vague personal mark.
It's not something we need to see eye to eye on, or not. I don't passionately hate the new movies like some people do. I found them entertaining on a certain level. I'm just pointing out that some stupid decisions were made and changing established species is one of them.
They have been succesfull, yes. Also, the Twilight saga has made a killing on the boxoffice, just as an example. I think that speaks more about the audience these days than the movies themselves.
Holy cat, Batman!! :eek:
I don't have enough facepalms for this...quick, someone link me the Borg collective facepalm pic, I can't seem to find it!
Here have something totally random instead...a pelican eating a pigeon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNNl_uWmQXE
You know, I said the same thing about the new BSG, but everyone told me I was being stupid.
I guess it really all comes down to how much you care.
I don't care that JJ structured his klingons the way he did. I thought they looked cool and klingon-y. I enjoyed the movies, and I don't have any emotional investment in klingons -NOT- having head jewelry.
But I'll never forgive Ronald Moore for turning Starbuck into Stardoe.
How about ASCII - Picard?
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.............................,.-"..................................."-.,
.........................,/...............................................":,
.....................,?........................... ...........................,
.................../.................................................. .........,}
................./.................................................. ....,:`^`..}
.............../.................................................. .,:"........./
..............?.....__............................ .............:`.........../
............./__.(....."~-,_..............................,:`........../
.........../(_...."~,_........"~,_....................,:`..... ..._/
..........{.._$;_......"=,_......."-,_.......,.-~-,},.~";/....}
...........((.....*~_......."=-._......";,,./`..../"............../
...,,,___.`~,......"~.,....................`.....} ............../
............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-"
............/.`~,......`-...................................../
.............`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....,__
,,_..........}.>-._...................................|............ ..`=~-,
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...................`=~-,,.,...............................
................................`:,,.............. .............`..............__
.....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==``
........................................_......... .._,-%.......`
...................................,
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
HMM, to be fair NU and OLD BSG were set in entirely different universes that are totally unconnected. So it's a total reboot.
In this case the JJ and the Prime universe are seperate in the sense that their history is different from 2233 onwards. So it's more like choosing Windows ME instead of 2000 dufinr bootup.
More to the point, in our former form we were a lot more hairy; we evolved and (for the most part) lost a lot of our body hair. From a biological and evolutionary stand point, wouldn't a feline species evolve like any other species? Perhalps Abrams has it right where Roddenberry had it wrong all these years.
The Human anatomy maybe, but the Klingon anatomy is different to ours, and they're no doubt more durable. Well, we know they are. Klingons are stronger than Humans period.
I obviously enjoyed these new films a lot more than you. I don't think many people enjoyed the 4th incarnation of Pirates, the 1st film will always be the best.
In my opinion, the new films are within the boundaries set within Trek. I admit there are differences, but for the most part I am willing to overlook them.
If too much was the same, then this story wouldn't be worth telling.
You're no doubt quite right. It is about the audience. It would seem (for the most part) that the audience approved of what Abrams did. Honestly, if that Klingon took off his helmet in that film and looked TNG, I think it would have looked out of place.
I'll take Katee Sackhoff any day of the week.
Not sure if you're trolling at this point. And I don't actually care either way.
So I'll just assume that you think that if Abrams does something it is more right because it's Abrams.
Those are evil. The only thing JJ got wrong.
Yeah, JJ farts rainbows and strawberry bushes grow on the ground he walks on. :rolleyes:
This is a debate my buddy and I often have. I'm (expletive)ing angry about Lindeloff trying to claim the girls at the beginning of Into Darkness were Caitians, and keep pointing out that you can't be both a reboot and a continuation. If NimoySpock is meant to be NimoySpock from TOS, then everything should look the same. They're not being presented as a totally seperate multiverse, the movies are being presented as a Back to the Future II-esque divergent timeline. my buddy keeps trying to tell me to get over it and move on, but I keep pointing out he'd be angry if Chewie looked more like Barf from Spaceballs.
And seriously, what was with the Enterprise being built on the planet and not in orbit?
Let us upgrade the Seleya Ceremonial Lirpa and Kri'stak Blade
Submarines have always been built planetside.
Too bad JJ and his followers can't tell a sub from a starship. :P
My character Tsin'xing
And Denobulans!
I made an Alien on the Romulan Faction and made him to be a Hirogen. If the made it a playable race I'd love for them to follow the outline here.
Hirogen Warship
Hirogen Ships use Dicyclic Singularity Cores
Hirogen Shuttle Craft
Tetryon Quad Cannons
2.5% chance to deal additional shield damage
Photo-Chroniton Torpedo Launcher
Monotanium Armor Plating Uni-Console
+20% all energy resistance Buff for 10 sec
Creates 2 sensor ghost ships for 10 sec
Hirogen Body Armor
Hirogen Hunter Personal Shield
Hirogen Tetryon Heavy Pulsewave Rifle
Rare Ground Weapon
Bind On Pickup
Yeah like changing the Klingons between TOS and TNG
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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