My fleet sovereign is a pretty effective tactical cruiser. Yet, the Avenger meets or beats it in specs in every way. I can't imagine how any would find it underpowered. The only thing underpowered is the ship model. :eek: Give us an Excel look for that thing cryptic! You let me make that ugly regent look like a kick TRIBBLE Sovereign.
A: The Avenger is a fair bit smaller than the Excelsior. I think.
B: It's a purpose-built warship, and it looks like one. It's compact, beefy, and it's got fun little details like blast shielding over the nacelles and viewports. I envision its interior looking a lot like the Defiant, only with a longer network of corridors. The Excelsior is what I would formally term a "multirole cruiser," and informally a flying hotel with guns like the Constitution and Galaxy. They're two different ships. You want to fly an Excelsior? Fly an Excelsior. Leave my Avenger the way it is.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Ist a nice ship, good layout but lacks in Boff Slots. I would like to see a commander tactical, lieutenant tactical, lieutenant commander eng, lieutenant science and ensign universal on the fleet Version. Or at least a fifth tactical console.
I want to see finally a compared ship to the scimitar for the federation and klingon People you can say what you want but most of the pow pow channel use a scimitar.
A: The Avenger is a fair bit smaller than the Excelsior. I think.
B: It's a purpose-built warship, and it looks like one. It's compact, beefy, and it's got fun little details like blast shielding over the nacelles and viewports. I envision its interior looking a lot like the Defiant, only with a longer network of corridors. The Excelsior is what I would formally term a "multirole cruiser," and informally a flying hotel with guns like the Constitution and Galaxy. They're two different ships. You want to fly an Excelsior? Fly an Excelsior. Leave my Avenger the way it is.
"No, I don't want you to have options to customize your starship. I like it the way it is." really? We are not only terribly and deep rooted afraid, no, angsty that someone (preferably communists or obama) might take something away from us, we even proactively "hinder" people in customizing their own stuff because we don't like it?
Boy, that game came a looong way
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
"No, I don't want you to have options to customize your starship. I like it the way it is." really? We are not only terribly and deep rooted afraid, no, angsty that someone (preferably communists or obama) might take something away from us, we even proactively "hinder" people in customizing their own stuff because we don't like it?
Boy, that game came a looong way
Overreact, much? He likes the way the Avenger looks, and doesn't appreciate it when people demand that it looks like the Excelsior instead.
The Avenger has only one flaw as I see it
For all of its abilitys
It is way way way way
Too Small
Agreed. It's not much bigger than a Chimera or a Mobius, both of which are Destroyers with higher turn rate.
It's fitting that the Avenger be smaller than your average cruiser, since it's a compact, combat-focused ship (like the Defiant), but for the maneuverability and status as a Battle Cruiser it should be maybe 25% bigger than it is right now.
Overreact, much? He likes the way the Avenger looks, and doesn't appreciate it when people demand that it looks like the Excelsior instead.
The last sentence does more than that. I actually agree with everything he said, for the record. And just slapping skins on totally different ships makes no sense either. But "Leave my ship alone" is not reasoning why that's a bad idea, that's "Ohcrapdontyoudaretouchmystuffz!" and the only reason I mentioned it in the first place is that this is a very common reaction on these forums alone
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I'd like it to be a little bigger (20% maybe?), but y'know what? It is easily the best ship I presently own. The Avenger is very durable and performs extremely well with DBB's. I play a little hazardly, so I also run DHC's in the front for when I can really lay into someone-happen more than people in here seem to think, too. You absolutely can play it as a slower, clumsier escort-but you're going to need to devote your consoles accordingly.
IMO, for it's effect, VATA needs a shorter CD. That's my one 'problem' with it. It's a weapon, very similarly to a Tri-Cobalt launcher. But really, I find the VATA useful enough to use most of the time, I'm just disappointed that it's not a 90 second CD.
My fleet sovereign is a pretty effective tactical cruiser. Yet, the Avenger meets or beats it in specs in every way. I can't imagine how any would find it underpowered. The only thing underpowered is the ship model. :eek: Give us an Excel look for that thing cryptic! You let me make that ugly regent look like a kick TRIBBLE Sovereign.
There's a few (rather situational) considerations that make the Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit a viable choice in comparison to the Fleet Avenger (that is, the Avenger doesn't beat it in every way):
1.) Balanced weapon layout: It may seem odd that it's an advantage at first, but the Avenger is still a cruiser, and can't always keep its fore weapons on target. A more balanced configuration allows more weapons on target while repositioning, and a full broadside doesn't really care whether the arrays are in the fore or aft slots. It's only really notable at all when fighting Raiders or when using all-beam setups.
2.) More hull: It's not much, but it's there. The FACR has 1650 more base hull than the Fleet Avenger, which could be the difference between toughing out a barrage and getting the heals in just in time or a warp core breach with a hull heal just half a second too late.
3.) Four devices: The extra device slot the FACR has is rarely a main deciding factor, though not having to hot-swap devices as frequently can occasionally come in handy, when you remember you have them.
4.) Cruiser Commands: Attract Fire is useful on occasion. That occasion being that you're already affected by Weapon Systems Efficiency and want to make it absolutely certain that the enemy will shoot at you. And you have some allies near you to significantly boost your resist bonus.
5.) Aux2Batt Spam-At-Will: If you love the beam-heavy flavor-of-the-month for several months running, the Avenger's access to DHCs is a moot point, as you're not taking advantage of them.
6.) Power spread: Although power is highly mutable especially on Cruisers, if you prefer Shields or Auxiliary power over Engine power, the Regent has a modest advantage.
Ist a nice ship, good layout but lacks in Boff Slots. I would like to see a commander tactical, lieutenant tactical, lieutenant commander eng, lieutenant science and ensign universal on the fleet Version. Or at least a fifth tactical console.
I want to see finally a compared ship to the scimitar for the federation and klingon People you can say what you want but most of the pow pow channel use a scimitar.
It's still a Cruiser, it's not going to have a Commander tac and Lt. Com Engineering slot.
Avenger is still a joke, too many disadvantages of an escort and a cruiser, not enough advantages of an escort or cruiser, a half breed ? Aye it is , but not the best combo and no real advantages for the federation cruiser /battlecruiser class ships (or destroyer class is even better than this ship) vs similar klingon classed cruisers, battlecruisers, and of course still no real "Heavy Battlecruiser" class fed ships. Oh, btw and the so called "Dreadnought Class" GAL X, is no where close to a "Dreadnought" by any kinda definition in comparison to any kinda ship, sea ,boat, vessel or in space sci fi or non fiction , in that class.
My Feedback on Avenger? : Simple, It needs a COMMANDER UNIVERSAL Boff station Period!, as well as, perhaps as a c store/fleet variation, a base turn of perhaps 11 or 12 vs its current base of 9. PERIOD!!!(Cant believe I paid money for this TRIBBLE which looked good on paper but largely not, with no clear advantage really that would make a serious difference, I'm sure you and your testers are aware, and collated and concluded to your current version) but really vs. any other kinda fed cruiser in any class, it's largely useless and not as modular as it seems to be by comparison.
Tho , I believe feedback, forums, for large, greedy corporate gaming companies are LARGELY USELESS and only a Token in reality, I sincerely hope someone that this kinda feedback concerns, takes it to heart for consideration, TY anyway
so you are made because it is a excelsior 2.0 with lt uni and wanting commander uni with escort style turn rate???
this is a prime example of people like you wanting uber that can pwn puuny klinks while still complaining of wanting more shinies as soon it is recent shiny released since day one.
Howdie fellow trekkers ... My first post on the forums so be gentle ...
I'm new to STO (only been playing for about a week) So i'm not up to speed on everything yet (again be gentle) ...
BTT: Has this been asked before ... Why is the Avenger a Tier 5 (VA) ship? ... I would have loved it to be a Tier 3, but considering it's specs, the standard (not fleet version) should have been at max a Tier 4 ship ...
Comparing it to the Exploration Cruiser Refit, it's a bit tougher and a bit more maneuverable, but is that worth 1000 Zen ?!?!?!? Then to, the ECR gets an extra SBOFF slot as well ... I just don't see the value in it ...
I also haven't seen all that many in game yet (although that could be because of the exorbitant price) And hear I thought everyone would be making "USS Voyager" on 'roids" clones ...
Howdie fellow trekkers ... My first post on the forums so be gentle ...
I'm new to STO (only been playing for about a week) So i'm not up to speed on everything yet (again be gentle) ...
BTT: Has this been asked before ... Why is the Avenger a Tier 5 (VA) ship? ... I would have loved it to be a Tier 3, but considering it's specs, the standard (not fleet version) should have been at max a Tier 4 ship ...
Comparing it to the Exploration Cruiser Refit, it's a bit tougher and a bit more maneuverable, but is that worth 1000 Zen ?!?!?!? Then to, the ECR gets an extra SBOFF slot as well ... I just don't see the value in it ...
I also haven't seen all that many in game yet (although that could be because of the exorbitant price) And hear I thought everyone would be making "USS Voyager" on 'roids" clones ...
You claim that this is your first post, and yet you say everything in just the right way to bait angry responses, starting with that the Galaxy is currently a good ship.
Also, the Avenger is quite common for a paid ship at this point. They're about as numerous among Fed players as Scimitars are for Romulans. 3 times out of 5 in a Dyson STF you'll see at least one Avenger. In fact, just last night I got into Breach Elite in my Fleet Avenger with 4 other Federation players. 3 were flying Avengers, the other was in an Odyssey.
Howdie fellow trekkers ... My first post on the forums so be gentle ...
I'm new to STO (only been playing for about a week) So i'm not up to speed on everything yet (again be gentle) ...
BTT: Has this been asked before ... Why is the Avenger a Tier 5 (VA) ship? ... I would have loved it to be a Tier 3, but considering it's specs, the standard (not fleet version) should have been at max a Tier 4 ship ...
Comparing it to the Exploration Cruiser Refit, it's a bit tougher and a bit more maneuverable, but is that worth 1000 Zen ?!?!?!? Then to, the ECR gets an extra SBOFF slot as well ... I just don't see the value in it ...
I also haven't seen all that many in game yet (although that could be because of the exorbitant price) And hear I thought everyone would be making "USS Voyager" on 'roids" clones ...
it is a t5 ship becuase t5 is endgame ship level...the level people play their chars the longest...so there is the most reveniew.
...honestly idk where you get the idea of the 1000 zen. avenger costs 2500 zen. the Exploration cruiser retrofit costs 2000 zen. i can't see where you get the 1000 zen difference from.
i can understand that after 1 week of playing the game, you can't distinguish a ship with TRIBBLE stats from a ship with excellent stats. some stats, like crew and to a certain extend hullpoints, are irrelevant stats. turnrate and the distribution of yor weaponslots and the number of tac weapon consoles are actually the "good" stats.
STO is most easiest played with a tactical oriented ship that yields a lot of firepower.
there are really A LOT of avengers flying around in stfs and other endgame group missions.
*edit: ahh, i see where you got the 1000 zen difference! you mistook the venture class for a T5 (rear admiral)...that one is a T4 (captain level) skin with a console for the exploration cruiser (the free T4 one)
kind of confusing, since retrofit and refit sound a like, but are actually very different.
First off @unangbangkay It was not my intention to "anger" anyone, just get some (hopefully positive) constructive feedback ... I wouldn't care if their was an Avenger passing by my head right now because they are so common, it doesn't mean I want one as well ... Many people go out of their way to find the "golden bullet", the exact, cookie cutter combination of this and that which wins every time ... If the Avenger is that ship, and STO is a game that supports this, then I'm glad I found out now ...
...honestly idk where you get the idea of the 1000 zen. avenger costs 2500 zen. the Exploration cruiser retrofit costs 2000 zen. i can't see where you get the 1000 zen difference from.
I was refering to the TNG Enterprise clone Galaxy Class 'Exploration Cruiser Refit" that's available for 1000 Zen which includes the Universal Antimatter Spread Console.
i can understand that after 1 week of playing the game, you can't distinguish a ship with TRIBBLE stats from a ship with excellent stats. some stats, like crew and to a certain extend hullpoints, are irrelevant stats. turnrate and the distribution of yor weaponslots and the number of tac weapon consoles are actually the "good" stats.
STO is most easiest played with a tactical oriented ship that yields a lot of firepower.
That's handy advice to know, thanks, and I never said that the ECR was a better ship than the Avenger, what I am looking for is advice on whether it's worth spending 500 - 1000 Zen difference! Could that 500 - 1000 Zen be spent better elsewhere?
I understand that Turn Rate is important and the console layout is way different between the two, but I am an RPG old timer, so working with a characters flaws/weaknesses is more fun to me, learning how to use the various strengths and coming up with tactics to exploit them (within reason, I'm not gonna try and play the whole game in a shuttle!) But, why not the Excelsior for 500 less Z?
When looking at the stats for the Captain level ECR, and the Rear Admiral level AHCR, I just couldn't (and still can't BTW) see that the Avenger is a Vice Admiral level ship, is it more than just an Odyssey that's been on a bit of a diet and with a pretty paint job? I am happy to be corrected, in fact I'm hoping for it.
there are really A LOT of avengers flying around in stfs and other endgame group missions.
Well obviously I haven't been on any Endgame Maps or missions, but with the massive variety of ships around the various faction hubs .. .well ... I did expect to see more of them ... And soryy for the confusion about ship Tiers ...
This. I can't go into it right now* but one of my fleet bosses runs a Fleet Avenger and makes it dance like an escort (albeit one of the slower ones), and we had two of us beating on him at once and couldn't even get his shields down.
It's all down to skills and gear.
* I'll post his build after he lifts the gag order on it (he created the build as a proof-of-concept or something for another admin and doesn't want it getting out just yet).
I have a Fed Eng Capt. in a Fleet Avenger and, just this week, was in several PvP matches as well as a couple of visits to Ker'rat and got nothing but compliments on how tanky the ship is. I run it as a beam boat and it's well able to dish out the damage and the turn rate (with no RCS console) is MORE than sufficient for a beam boat. Weapons energy levels stay well up thru out. I run 5 beam arrays fore and aft I run the Voth 360 array (it's an AP build), a Fleet BA and KCB. Over all I wouldn't trade this ship for anything. I've run Escorts and Cruisers Fed side and this ship is my overall favorite!
*STO*Its mission: To destroy strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations... and then kill them, to boldly annihilate what no one has annihilated before!
I'm too lazy to read through it all, so I just skimmed. Just bought the ship last night, took it into a fleet action to get an idea what I had to work with, and then loaded it up. After that I took it through several ESTFs. First impression, I love it; BUT, I thought this was a Tactically-based cruiser/escort hybrid? Why no Commander boff slot? It is a little squishy for a cruiser(or maybe I just haven't been in anything heavier than the heavy escort carrier in such a long time I don't remember how cruisers work).
Generally, overall, it's a nice ship. Personally, I like the look(but then again, I like the bent salad fork look of the Been cruiser too lol). Methink I just need to take some more time, and figure out a better construction of my stuff. My biggest beef is the lack of a usable Commander station. The eng slot seems out of place after the advertisement of a battleship. Better, drop the eng slot to a Lt. Cmdr, and make a universal commander slot to make everyone happy. That alone would help bring this ship up to par with others.
I'm too lazy to read through it all, so I just skimmed. Just bought the ship last night, took it into a fleet action to get an idea what I had to work with, and then loaded it up. After that I took it through several ESTFs. First impression, I love it; BUT, I thought this was a Tactically-based cruiser/escort hybrid? Why no Commander boff slot? It is a little squishy for a cruiser(or maybe I just haven't been in anything heavier than the heavy escort carrier in such a long time I don't remember how cruisers work).
Generally, overall, it's a nice ship. Personally, I like the look(but then again, I like the bent salad fork look of the Been cruiser too lol). Methink I just need to take some more time, and figure out a better construction of my stuff. My biggest beef is the lack of a usable Commander station. The eng slot seems out of place after the advertisement of a battleship. Better, drop the eng slot to a Lt. Cmdr, and make a universal commander slot to make everyone happy. That alone would help bring this ship up to par with others.
Actually it isn't a 'battleship' it is a 'battlecruiser'.
'Cruisers' and 'battlecruisers' in the game are generally defined by having a Commander Engineer as their top slot. So it's a tactically-inclined cruiser as such. Hence the lt. cmdr and ensign tac slots.
There are plenty of good abilities you can use at the Cmdr level slot for engineering: Aux to SIF 3, DEM 3, EWP 3, and a couple others.
DEM 3 in particular can really hurt if you are using DHCs with it. Plus having a Cmdr eng means you can also slot EPTW 3, for a really nice boost to energy weapons damage.
Plenty of really good ways of getting a lot of solid offense out of this, just more about looking for that in different ways.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Avenger is still a joke, too many disadvantages of an escort and a cruiser, not enough advantages of an escort or cruiser, a half breed ? Aye it is , but not the best combo and no real advantages for the federation cruiser /battlecruiser class ships (or destroyer class is even better than this ship) vs similar klingon classed cruisers, battlecruisers, and of course still no real "Heavy Battlecruiser" class fed ships. Oh, btw and the so called "Dreadnought Class" GAL X, is no where close to a "Dreadnought" by any kinda definition in comparison to any kinda ship, sea ,boat, vessel or in space sci fi or non fiction , in that class.
My Feedback on Avenger? : Simple, It needs a COMMANDER UNIVERSAL Boff station Period!, as well as, perhaps as a c store/fleet variation, a base turn of perhaps 11 or 12 vs its current base of 9. PERIOD!!!(Cant believe I paid money for this TRIBBLE which looked good on paper but largely not, with no clear advantage really that would make a serious difference, I'm sure you and your testers are aware, and collated and concluded to your current version) but really vs. any other kinda fed cruiser in any class, it's largely useless and not as modular as it seems to be by comparison.
Tho , I believe feedback, forums, for large, greedy corporate gaming companies are LARGELY USELESS and only a Token in reality, I sincerely hope someone that this kinda feedback concerns, takes it to heart for consideration, TY anyway
Lighten up, Francis.
The Avenger is a battlecruiser. It's not an escort. It's not a standard cruiser. It requires a different approach to playing it.
When playing it as a battlecruiser (like you should be), the Avenger is a solid choice. There is nothing glaringly wrong with it.
On another note, I want to give my heartfelt thanks to the Klingon Empire for such a wonderful concept in ship design. It's wonderful for killing Voth fanatics and walking toasters that fly around in big rubik's cubes.
My Tac Fleet Avenger does more DPS than either of my bug ships. The pressure damage it can inflict feels a lot like spike especially if timed right. People just start to melt.
Try an engy sometime, you lose the raw spike, but its a more smooth constant pressure. That and you dont have to run as much power build to maintain it.
In most situations I really think the Avengineer is stronger than the Avenger Tac. Personal preference maybe.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
While I do like my avenger I do agree that the ship could use slightly better seating (i'd like tog et at least ONE commander tac ability out of my BOFFs).
... ... ...
And some more hull components, it really is an ugly little ship.
You just want me NOT to GDF+APA+DEM3 on your BoP when you decloak. Lol
Nah my Engineer right now is in the Sci Odyssey, pure heal boat. I'm lucky to break 3k dps with it but it'll keep people alive.
Even in a sci Oddy (which I have and use) an engineer should be EASILY past 6k DPS and still throw around tons of heals. Heck, my Sci toon when it wasn't even doing well would get 4K dps in pugs. 6K after a bit of teaking. More with a better ship.
Well since this is a pvp set up and skill tree 3k is alot. No power to weapons, no skill in weapons at all in order to more effectively heal teammates. Only have 3 beams on. The rest various torps.
I don't care what your engineer does in PvE. Engineers are still capable of 10k-15k if skilled and specced right.
What-EVER. :rolleyes:
It doesn't take all your skill points to build an ENG healer. In fact I have most of the skills already with my ENG PvE character. They're the same skill trees. There are only a handful of skills that actually help healing powers. Unless you're wasting 90% of your skill points on "power to aux" boosts that give +2 power bonus at 99 skill points, there's little excuse to do 3K dps as an ENG healer in an Oddy.
You could argue the following:
EPS (regain power to aux for more heals)
Warp Core Potential (more power)
aux performance (very minor boost for the points)
There are some others like shield systems and structural integrity which simply boost your own innate specs, but none of them help with healing others or yourself.
Sure, there may be different DPS levels in PvP vs PvE, but blaming it on the fact that you are only spec'd purely for healing? Nah, man. That doesn't float. There's not that many points to sink into "healing" skills.
Try an engy sometime, you lose the raw spike, but its a more smooth constant pressure. That and you dont have to run as much power build to maintain it.
In most situations I really think the Avengineer is stronger than the Avenger Tac. Personal preference maybe.
"Avengineer." Lol.
Serious question, you running cannons or beams with that? Because I'm looking for a decent boff layout for my KDF engy's eventual Mogh. I want to run a canon boat because cannon ... no, wait, that should be cannon because canon. (I'm also considering experimenting with a DC build for my Fed Avenger, which right now is a beam broadsider.)
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Comments
A: The Avenger is a fair bit smaller than the Excelsior. I think.
B: It's a purpose-built warship, and it looks like one. It's compact, beefy, and it's got fun little details like blast shielding over the nacelles and viewports. I envision its interior looking a lot like the Defiant, only with a longer network of corridors. The Excelsior is what I would formally term a "multirole cruiser," and informally a flying hotel with guns like the Constitution and Galaxy. They're two different ships. You want to fly an Excelsior? Fly an Excelsior. Leave my Avenger the way it is.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I want to see finally a compared ship to the scimitar for the federation and klingon People you can say what you want but most of the pow pow channel use a scimitar.
And the Avenger is not half as cool looking either. You seemed to have missed the point.
I'm not so sure the Vengeance was the inspiration.
Who remembers the Design the New Enterprise runners up?
"No, I don't want you to have options to customize your starship. I like it the way it is." really? We are not only terribly and deep rooted afraid, no, angsty that someone (preferably communists or obama) might take something away from us, we even proactively "hinder" people in customizing their own stuff because we don't like it?
Boy, that game came a looong way
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Overreact, much? He likes the way the Avenger looks, and doesn't appreciate it when people demand that it looks like the Excelsior instead.
Agreed. It's not much bigger than a Chimera or a Mobius, both of which are Destroyers with higher turn rate.
It's fitting that the Avenger be smaller than your average cruiser, since it's a compact, combat-focused ship (like the Defiant), but for the maneuverability and status as a Battle Cruiser it should be maybe 25% bigger than it is right now.
The last sentence does more than that. I actually agree with everything he said, for the record. And just slapping skins on totally different ships makes no sense either. But "Leave my ship alone" is not reasoning why that's a bad idea, that's "Ohcrapdontyoudaretouchmystuffz!" and the only reason I mentioned it in the first place is that this is a very common reaction on these forums alone
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IMO, for it's effect, VATA needs a shorter CD. That's my one 'problem' with it. It's a weapon, very similarly to a Tri-Cobalt launcher. But really, I find the VATA useful enough to use most of the time, I'm just disappointed that it's not a 90 second CD.
There's a few (rather situational) considerations that make the Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit a viable choice in comparison to the Fleet Avenger (that is, the Avenger doesn't beat it in every way):
1.) Balanced weapon layout: It may seem odd that it's an advantage at first, but the Avenger is still a cruiser, and can't always keep its fore weapons on target. A more balanced configuration allows more weapons on target while repositioning, and a full broadside doesn't really care whether the arrays are in the fore or aft slots. It's only really notable at all when fighting Raiders or when using all-beam setups.
2.) More hull: It's not much, but it's there. The FACR has 1650 more base hull than the Fleet Avenger, which could be the difference between toughing out a barrage and getting the heals in just in time or a warp core breach with a hull heal just half a second too late.
3.) Four devices: The extra device slot the FACR has is rarely a main deciding factor, though not having to hot-swap devices as frequently can occasionally come in handy, when you remember you have them.
4.) Cruiser Commands: Attract Fire is useful on occasion. That occasion being that you're already affected by Weapon Systems Efficiency and want to make it absolutely certain that the enemy will shoot at you. And you have some allies near you to significantly boost your resist bonus.
5.) Aux2Batt Spam-At-Will: If you love the beam-heavy flavor-of-the-month for several months running, the Avenger's access to DHCs is a moot point, as you're not taking advantage of them.
6.) Power spread: Although power is highly mutable especially on Cruisers, if you prefer Shields or Auxiliary power over Engine power, the Regent has a modest advantage.
It's still a Cruiser, it's not going to have a Commander tac and Lt. Com Engineering slot.
so you are made because it is a excelsior 2.0 with lt uni and wanting commander uni with escort style turn rate???
this is a prime example of people like you wanting uber that can pwn puuny klinks while still complaining of wanting more shinies as soon it is recent shiny released since day one.
I'm new to STO (only been playing for about a week) So i'm not up to speed on everything yet (again be gentle) ...
BTT: Has this been asked before ... Why is the Avenger a Tier 5 (VA) ship? ... I would have loved it to be a Tier 3, but considering it's specs, the standard (not fleet version) should have been at max a Tier 4 ship ...
Comparing it to the Exploration Cruiser Refit, it's a bit tougher and a bit more maneuverable, but is that worth 1000 Zen ?!?!?!? Then to, the ECR gets an extra SBOFF slot as well ... I just don't see the value in it ...
I also haven't seen all that many in game yet (although that could be because of the exorbitant price) And hear I thought everyone would be making "USS Voyager" on 'roids" clones ...
You claim that this is your first post, and yet you say everything in just the right way to bait angry responses, starting with that the Galaxy is currently a good ship.
Also, the Avenger is quite common for a paid ship at this point. They're about as numerous among Fed players as Scimitars are for Romulans. 3 times out of 5 in a Dyson STF you'll see at least one Avenger. In fact, just last night I got into Breach Elite in my Fleet Avenger with 4 other Federation players. 3 were flying Avengers, the other was in an Odyssey.
it is a t5 ship becuase t5 is endgame ship level...the level people play their chars the longest...so there is the most reveniew.
...honestly idk where you get the idea of the 1000 zen. avenger costs 2500 zen. the Exploration cruiser retrofit costs 2000 zen. i can't see where you get the 1000 zen difference from.
i can understand that after 1 week of playing the game, you can't distinguish a ship with TRIBBLE stats from a ship with excellent stats. some stats, like crew and to a certain extend hullpoints, are irrelevant stats. turnrate and the distribution of yor weaponslots and the number of tac weapon consoles are actually the "good" stats.
STO is most easiest played with a tactical oriented ship that yields a lot of firepower.
there are really A LOT of avengers flying around in stfs and other endgame group missions.
*edit: ahh, i see where you got the 1000 zen difference! you mistook the venture class for a T5 (rear admiral)...that one is a T4 (captain level) skin with a console for the exploration cruiser (the free T4 one)
kind of confusing, since retrofit and refit sound a like, but are actually very different.
Well that doesn't sound like Cryptic or PWE at all ...
I was refering to the TNG Enterprise clone Galaxy Class 'Exploration Cruiser Refit" that's available for 1000 Zen which includes the Universal Antimatter Spread Console.
That's handy advice to know, thanks, and I never said that the ECR was a better ship than the Avenger, what I am looking for is advice on whether it's worth spending 500 - 1000 Zen difference! Could that 500 - 1000 Zen be spent better elsewhere?
I understand that Turn Rate is important and the console layout is way different between the two, but I am an RPG old timer, so working with a characters flaws/weaknesses is more fun to me, learning how to use the various strengths and coming up with tactics to exploit them (within reason, I'm not gonna try and play the whole game in a shuttle!) But, why not the Excelsior for 500 less Z?
When looking at the stats for the Captain level ECR, and the Rear Admiral level AHCR, I just couldn't (and still can't BTW) see that the Avenger is a Vice Admiral level ship, is it more than just an Odyssey that's been on a bit of a diet and with a pretty paint job? I am happy to be corrected, in fact I'm hoping for it.
Well obviously I haven't been on any Endgame Maps or missions, but with the massive variety of ships around the various faction hubs .. .well ... I did expect to see more of them ... And soryy for the confusion about ship Tiers ...
I have a Fed Eng Capt. in a Fleet Avenger and, just this week, was in several PvP matches as well as a couple of visits to Ker'rat and got nothing but compliments on how tanky the ship is. I run it as a beam boat and it's well able to dish out the damage and the turn rate (with no RCS console) is MORE than sufficient for a beam boat. Weapons energy levels stay well up thru out. I run 5 beam arrays fore and aft I run the Voth 360 array (it's an AP build), a Fleet BA and KCB. Over all I wouldn't trade this ship for anything. I've run Escorts and Cruisers Fed side and this ship is my overall favorite!
Generally, overall, it's a nice ship. Personally, I like the look(but then again, I like the bent salad fork look of the Been cruiser too lol). Methink I just need to take some more time, and figure out a better construction of my stuff. My biggest beef is the lack of a usable Commander station. The eng slot seems out of place after the advertisement of a battleship. Better, drop the eng slot to a Lt. Cmdr, and make a universal commander slot to make everyone happy. That alone would help bring this ship up to par with others.
Actually it isn't a 'battleship' it is a 'battlecruiser'.
'Cruisers' and 'battlecruisers' in the game are generally defined by having a Commander Engineer as their top slot. So it's a tactically-inclined cruiser as such. Hence the lt. cmdr and ensign tac slots.
There are plenty of good abilities you can use at the Cmdr level slot for engineering: Aux to SIF 3, DEM 3, EWP 3, and a couple others.
DEM 3 in particular can really hurt if you are using DHCs with it. Plus having a Cmdr eng means you can also slot EPTW 3, for a really nice boost to energy weapons damage.
Plenty of really good ways of getting a lot of solid offense out of this, just more about looking for that in different ways.
Lighten up, Francis.
The Avenger is a battlecruiser. It's not an escort. It's not a standard cruiser. It requires a different approach to playing it.
When playing it as a battlecruiser (like you should be), the Avenger is a solid choice. There is nothing glaringly wrong with it.
On another note, I want to give my heartfelt thanks to the Klingon Empire for such a wonderful concept in ship design. It's wonderful for killing Voth fanatics and walking toasters that fly around in big rubik's cubes.
Signed: A happy Federation war hawk.
Try an engy sometime, you lose the raw spike, but its a more smooth constant pressure. That and you dont have to run as much power build to maintain it.
In most situations I really think the Avengineer is stronger than the Avenger Tac. Personal preference maybe.
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And some more hull components, it really is an ugly little ship.
Even in a sci Oddy (which I have and use) an engineer should be EASILY past 6k DPS and still throw around tons of heals. Heck, my Sci toon when it wasn't even doing well would get 4K dps in pugs. 6K after a bit of teaking. More with a better ship.
What-EVER. :rolleyes:
It doesn't take all your skill points to build an ENG healer. In fact I have most of the skills already with my ENG PvE character. They're the same skill trees. There are only a handful of skills that actually help healing powers. Unless you're wasting 90% of your skill points on "power to aux" boosts that give +2 power bonus at 99 skill points, there's little excuse to do 3K dps as an ENG healer in an Oddy.
The only skills that help healing (yourself or others) are:
Starship Batteries (self)
Starship Hull Repair (self)
Starship Shield Emitters (self+other)
Starship Shield Systems (self)
You could argue the following:
EPS (regain power to aux for more heals)
Warp Core Potential (more power)
aux performance (very minor boost for the points)
There are some others like shield systems and structural integrity which simply boost your own innate specs, but none of them help with healing others or yourself.
Sure, there may be different DPS levels in PvP vs PvE, but blaming it on the fact that you are only spec'd purely for healing? Nah, man. That doesn't float. There's not that many points to sink into "healing" skills.
"Avengineer." Lol.
Serious question, you running cannons or beams with that? Because I'm looking for a decent boff layout for my KDF engy's eventual Mogh. I want to run a canon boat because cannon ... no, wait, that should be cannon because canon.
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