test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Avenger Class Feedback

24

Comments

  • neo1nxneo1nx Member Posts: 962 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    its the hardest battlecruiser to use DHCs on, but with 5 forward weapon its easily the most punishing.

    i was going to state that the galaxy x is the hardest battlecruiser to use DHC, until i realise that it is not a battlecruiser..... it a dreadbought cruiser:D:D

    Oh, poor as we are!:(
  • timezargtimezarg Member Posts: 1,268
    edited November 2013
    this is pure satire right? of all the cruisers in the game, this is the most dangerious, what the hell would you even do with a COM uni anyway?

    wile 9 turn is sort of low when compared to kdf battlecruisers, keep in mind its still the highest end game fed cruiser turn rate available. every single cruiser in the game should get a +2 added to their base though. its the hardest battlecruiser to use DHCs on, but with 5 forward weapon its easily the most punishing.

    It's not necessarily that low. Negh'var has 9 turnrate, Tor'kaht has 10. The high inertia compensates for being 1-2 turnrate points below Tor'kaht and K't'inga. Plus, with the new RCS console design, that difference isn't so big anymore.
    tIqIpqu' 'ej nom tIqIp
  • timezargtimezarg Member Posts: 1,268
    edited November 2013
    redheadguy wrote: »
    I'm having a hard time understanding what you said here. Please explain what all of the acronyms are?

    Massive pressure dps. On top of that I'm also set up to run! 50km in 5 seconds if on CD! GL if I get my GDF+APA and your RSP is on CD. DEM3 is completely OP right now.

    Translation:

    DPS = Damage-per-second, a common measurement of someone's damage output.

    CD = cooldown

    GL = good luck

    GDF = Go Down Fighting, tactical captain ability

    APA = Attack Pattern Alpha, tactical captain ability

    RSP = Reverse Shield Polarity, engineering bridge officer ability

    DEM3 = Directed Energy Modulation 3, engineering bridge officer ability

    OP = overpowered

    TL;DR - Massive pressure damage-per-second. On top of that I'm also set up to run! 50km in 5 seconds if on cooldown! Good luck if I get my Go Down Fighting and Attack Pattern Alpha buffs activated while your RSP is on cooldown. Directed Energy Modulation is completely overpowered right now.
    tIqIpqu' 'ej nom tIqIp
  • tweevetweeve Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I am loving the avenger class right now.
    I normally run a odyssey cruiser but I like to mix it up with some escort gun ships.
    This gives me the best of both. Sure it has it downsides, but it is one tough little ship. I am not having any troubles keeping alive with it being set as a fairly powerful gun ship.
  • wintiemintiewintiemintie Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Avenger is still a joke, too many disadvantages of an escort and a cruiser, not enough advantages of an escort or cruiser, a half breed ? Aye it is , but not the best combo and no real advantages for the federation cruiser /battlecruiser class ships (or destroyer class is even better than this ship) vs similar klingon classed cruisers, battlecruisers, and of course still no real "Heavy Battlecruiser" class fed ships. Oh, btw and the so called "Dreadnought Class" GAL X, is no where close to a "Dreadnought" by any kinda definition in comparison to any kinda ship, sea ,boat, vessel or in space sci fi or non fiction , in that class.

    My Feedback on Avenger? : Simple, It needs a COMMANDER UNIVERSAL Boff station Period!, as well as, perhaps as a c store/fleet variation, a base turn of perhaps 11 or 12 vs its current base of 9. PERIOD!!!(Cant believe I paid money for this TRIBBLE which looked good on paper but largely not, with no clear advantage really that would make a serious difference, I'm sure you and your testers are aware, and collated and concluded to your current version) but really vs. any other kinda fed cruiser in any class, it's largely useless and not as modular as it seems to be by comparison.

    Tho , I believe feedback, forums, for large, greedy corporate gaming companies are LARGELY USELESS and only a Token in reality, I sincerely hope someone that this kinda feedback concerns, takes it to heart for consideration, TY anyway :)

    Feds get best BC in game then complain its not good enough. Hue.
  • chuckingramchuckingram Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    abfabfleet wrote: »
    Realizing your concern, personally I have the Fleet version of this ship and find it will rounded in PVP and the additional sci slot and shield modifier. I'm sure others will concur, it may be your build that needs some fine tuning. I'd suggest you'd reconsider examining the builds area of the forum for this ship's usefulness. I say this strongly as advice, not to disenheart you. You may see the others that have responded to the outpouring of yes's to this ship.

    Your response would have been far more palatable had you addressed the OP's concerns instead of launching into group-think. I spent MY money for this ship (both), and as such I've paid for the privilege of having an opinion: That being true, the Avenger simply is not as "well-rounded" as it should be as a hybrid. This is painfully evident when one considers the lack of innovation in fed ships lately.

    Feedback? Sure! The Avenger needs 1, or perhaps 2 more added benefits that are inherent to the platform, that extend beyond the idea that all I need to do is copy some someone else's build to enjoy real success with the ship.

    Suggestions? Nope, I'll gladly leave that to the folks who do such things for a living. I will say this though, the Avenger was obviously low-balled in its specifics. This fact will need to be considered and addressed before I pump any cash into the next fed whiz-bang creation.
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I think the problem is, people who are used to the Fed lineup see "dual cannons" in its specs and therefore expect to fly it just like an escort. Now, if you build it right you can certainly make it act a lot like one (one of my fleet bosses' builds is good for that, albeit it's not a DC build), but it's not an escort and you shouldn't think of it as one. It's a fast, slightly less durable cruiser that can run cannons, not an escort.

    I run mine with single aux2batt and beam broadsiding, and I'm usually somewhere in the range of 5-7k DPS.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • chuckingramchuckingram Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    starswordc wrote: »
    I think the problem is, people who are used to the Fed lineup see "dual cannons" in its specs and therefore expect to fly it just like an escort.

    That's a self-serving assumption, but I'll play. If CRYPTIC says a ship can mount cannons it would be reasonable to expect that it's a viable platform for cannons of all types, right? Well it isn't, compared to a good escort that is. "But if it had the turnrate of an escort it wouldn't be fair!" Agreed, but why not give us something that would compensate a tad, like higher base flight speed? There are lots of things they COULD have done to make the Avenger unique, but they didn't. I suspect the ship was cheap-licked to make money AND appease the anti-fed whiners at the same time.
  • unangbangkayunangbangkay Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    That's a self-serving assumption, but I'll play. If CRYPTIC says a ship can mount cannons it would be reasonable to expect that it's a viable platform for cannons of all types, right? Well it isn't, compared to a good escort that is. "But if it had the turnrate of an escort it wouldn't be fair!" Agreed, but why not give us something that would compensate a tad, like higher base flight speed? There are lots of things they COULD have done to make the Avenger unique, but they didn't. I suspect the ship was cheap-licked to make money AND appease the anti-fed whiners at the same time.

    Not entirely true. Klingon Battlecruisers have similar or lower turn rate to the Avenger (as do some models of Warbird) and can still use dual cannons.

    And besides, your definition of "viable" is narrow, and escort-focused. The Avenger and Other BC's are viable cannon platforms, but require different tactics to compensate for their limitations and leverage their strengths. Y'know, like a proper ship, with advantages and disadvantages. As great as the Avenger is, it isn't an "I win" button, and shouldn't be. I honestly don't understand why some people assume that they automatically buy advantage so long as they spend money in an ostensibly free game.

    Just because snarky forum degenerates SAY STO is "Pay-to-win" doesn't necessarily make it true...

    And there IS a built-in compensation to the turn rate and flight speed deficiency. It's called the Strategic Maneuvers Cruiser Command.
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    ^Beat me to it. :P

    But yeah. Don't try to fly it like an escort, because it's not an escort. Fly it like a Klingon battlecruiser (it's a very close competitor to the Tor'Kaht in particular, which is why I've been eying the Tork for my KDF toon).

    Or just run it as a beam boat.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • timezargtimezarg Member Posts: 1,268
    edited November 2013
    starswordc wrote: »
    ^Beat me to it. :P

    But yeah. Don't try to fly it like an escort, because it's not an escort. Fly it like a Klingon battlecruiser (it's a very close competitor to the Tor'Kaht in particular, which is why I've been eying the Tork for my KDF toon).

    Or just run it as a beam boat.

    Yeah, flying a battlecruiser like an escort is just not the way to go. It doesn't turn well enough for that, and escorts will obviously do a better job of it.

    Battlecruisers are basically intended to combine the possibility of burst damage via the dual cannons with the crunchiness of a light cruiser. In the right hands they can be quite useful.
    tIqIpqu' 'ej nom tIqIp
  • rylanadionysisrylanadionysis Member Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    OP, I have an Engineer captained Avenger Id like you to meet.

    Hit me up in game

    Victoria@rylanadionysis

    Ill show you what these ships can do.
    Gold.jpg
    Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
    Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
    Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
  • shaanithegreenshaanithegreen Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Feds get best BC in game then complain its not good enough. Hue.

    Kinda like that time Klingons got the best Fed tactical heavy cruiser in the game, then protested and refused to buy it. :P
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    avenger is a terrible ship. i want a refund. im sorry i know those are harsh words.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Avenger is still a joke, too many disadvantages of an escort and a cruiser, not enough advantages of an escort or cruiser, a half breed ? Aye it is , but not the best combo and no real advantages for the federation cruiser /battlecruiser class ships (or destroyer class is even better than this ship) vs similar klingon classed cruisers, battlecruisers, and of course still no real "Heavy Battlecruiser" class fed ships. Oh, btw and the so called "Dreadnought Class" GAL X, is no where close to a "Dreadnought" by any kinda definition in comparison to any kinda ship, sea ,boat, vessel or in space sci fi or non fiction , in that class.

    My Feedback on Avenger? : Simple, It needs a COMMANDER UNIVERSAL Boff station Period!, as well as, perhaps as a c store/fleet variation, a base turn of perhaps 11 or 12 vs its current base of 9. PERIOD!!!(Cant believe I paid money for this TRIBBLE which looked good on paper but largely not, with no clear advantage really that would make a serious difference, I'm sure you and your testers are aware, and collated and concluded to your current version) but really vs. any other kinda fed cruiser in any class, it's largely useless and not as modular as it seems to be by comparison.

    Tho , I believe feedback, forums, for large, greedy corporate gaming companies are LARGELY USELESS and only a Token in reality, I sincerely hope someone that this kinda feedback concerns, takes it to heart for consideration, TY anyway :)

    you sir, are correct.

    also, the elongated tail end of the hull is just so fugly. i wish i could get rid of it. i want my money back cuz this ship is hideous and unplayable.
  • chuggernaut12chuggernaut12 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    That's a self-serving assumption, but I'll play. If CRYPTIC says a ship can mount cannons it would be reasonable to expect that it's a viable platform for cannons of all types, right? Well it isn't, compared to a good escort that is. "But if it had the turnrate of an escort it wouldn't be fair!" Agreed, but why not give us something that would compensate a tad, like higher base flight speed? There are lots of things they COULD have done to make the Avenger unique, but they didn't. I suspect the ship was cheap-licked to make money AND appease the anti-fed whiners at the same time.

    There's tons of ships that CAN mount dual cannons and shouldn't, though. The Gal-X is a complete joke with them, for example. You can put five torps on the front of a ship and three DBBs on the rear, doesn't mean it's a good idea.

    I support ships having trap features like being able to mount DHCs, so we can tell instantly who is bad. You can put DHCs on a Vo'Quv carrier, is it a reasonable assumption that it is a viable platform for cannons, or is it more reasonable that a player might take two seconds to check the turn rating of a ship first?
  • venarravenarra Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Face it. The Avenger needed to be a carbon copy of the Breen Chel Grett, the best cruiser/escort hybrid in the game. It should turn like a science ship, not a cruiser. Cannons aren't much use if you can't bear them on a target 30-50% of the time. And it lacks in the bridge station load out.

    I really don't know they released this ship when they could have the Typhoon skin, saved some time on the graphical display and made that the Battlecruiser. Every fight you enter into that a Typhoon is in states "Typhoon Class Battleship"

    And where is the Jupiter class Dreadnought. We've all encoutered the U.S.S. Zodiac. It's about time she made a debu as maybe the first Flight Deck Dreadnought (Heavy Carrier) (two fighter bays, full cruiser load out, with cruiser endurance and turn rate. Good console mix between Engineering and Tactical, with Science last.

    And I agree the Riker's Enterprise is a bit weak for a Dreadnought. It should have five weapon slots forward and four to the rear (with the Spinal Lance becoming a forward weapon slot, so we are not restricted to Phaser only loadouts). It should also be a damage magnet.
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Member Posts: 3,085 Arc User1
    edited December 2013
    Feds get best BC in game then complain its not good enough. Hue.

    So very, very true.

    Feds were begging for carriers. Then Atrox was not good enough for them.

    I have a solution for OP.

    Cryptic should take Avenger from Feds if they aren't happy and re-release it in a new skin for KDF. :D
  • redsnake721redsnake721 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    The Fleet Avenger is a Top notch ship. I have to think that anyone that has problems tanking or dishing out massive amounts of damage with it need so ask for some advice on ship builds. The only thing I could wish for on it would be for it to be competitive with the Scimatar. I would have loved 5 Tac consoles and a Cmdr Tac station. But to some that would be too OP. I would have settled for just a CMDR Tac and the 4 Tac consoles or vice versa. But this ship with both would be the Feds version of the Scimatar. As it stands no ship can compete with a properly built Scimatar. But as we know once Cryptic releases a ship they will never, ever, ever go back and change its Boff or console layout. I always cringe when I see a post from someone asking for an existing ship to have it's console or Boff seating changed because it will never happen. But as it stands with the current Aux2batt/DEM/APB/FAW craze the Avenger, Fleet Excelsior, Fleet Soverign, and Fleet Ambassidor are the best Fed cruisers out there. In that order.
  • monkeybone13monkeybone13 Member Posts: 4,640 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I managed to get first place in Crystalline Catastrophe [Elite] in my fleet avenger, and I don't even have most rep equipment yet. I died like twice I think.

    Halfway through I just sat in front of the entity spamming my romulan plasma torpedoes and beam arrays on the 5 fore weapon slots (Don't have fleet spire tac consoles unlocked yet). No progress made in Dyson reputation yet at this point also.

    I wasn't taking much damage sitting there so I managed to help keep other players alive as well using hazard emitters, auxilary to structural, and tactical team. Got me a nifty trophy for my lounge inside my ship. :D

    I would say the avenger ship blows.........it blows the bad guys away. :cool:

    So this is what I'm planning on for it eventually (basically just need equipment and dyson rep) http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=sparkyfleetavenger_2164
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    You can put five torps on the front of a ship and three DBBs on the rear, doesn't mean it's a good idea.

    Actually you can't do that.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • chuggernaut12chuggernaut12 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    mimey2 wrote: »
    Actually you can't do that.

    Okay bad example. You get my point, though. Should we make it so that a ship that mounts one beam array, one DBB, one cannon, ect, of all different damage types, is viable just because Cryptic will let you do it? I think not.
  • tmichctmichc Member Posts: 164 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I have a fleet Avenger and I have to say it's an amazing ship. The perfect Battle Cruiser. A pity it's Fed-side, as I'd love to have it on my KDF characters. But, Fed-side it is still a wonderous thing. My engineer captain does so much better in it than in her Armitage or JHDC, but that could be because it works so well with the way I play her. I use DHCs and don't notice half the problems folk keep complaining about. I use a load of [ResAll] RCS Consoles from the mine however to get the turn up. The pivot point is fantastic, and is pretty much in the optimum place for cannon use, though you still have to use skills like EPtE or Evasive to get yourself in a good position to do maximum damage.

    Tim
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    ferdzso0 wrote: »
    the ship is fine. probably the strongest fed cruiser (one of the strongest fed ships) out there, if it suits you. it is what it says on paper, if you have problems with understanding how stats will translate to gameplay, you should just go and test on tribble before buying anything

    ^^ This. Fleet Avenger is one of the finest Fed ships around. Good turn-rate, very sturdy, and a sweet 5/3 weps layout.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    tmichc wrote: »
    I have a fleet Avenger and I have to say it's an amazing ship. The perfect Battle Cruiser. A pity it's Fed-side, as I'd love to have it on my KDF characters. But, Fed-side it is still a wonderous thing. My engineer captain does so much better in it than in her Armitage or JHDC, but that could be because it works so well with the way I play her. I use DHCs and don't notice half the problems folk keep complaining about. I use a load of [ResAll] RCS Consoles from the mine however to get the turn up. The pivot point is fantastic, and is pretty much in the optimum place for cannon use, though you still have to use skills like EPtE or Evasive to get yourself in a good position to do maximum damage.

    Tim

    If you want something similar for your KDF, try the Tor'Kaht. The Avenger has a somewhat better boff layout (most importantly, it has a Lt sci and Lt uni instead of Lt eng, Lt uni, and no built-in sci), but the tork maneuvers better (important if you want to use dual cannons on it).

    And yeah: Like I've been saying, there's an automatic assumption among a lot of us Feds that dual cannon-capable = maneuvers like an escort. These people have clearly never tried a JHDC, Scimitar, or ... practically any Klingon ship other than a raptor or BoP, most of which can run cannons effectively (at least in PvE; I know next to nothing about PvP) but turn like a bus. :D

    Players, before you jump on the bandwagon for the new shiny, do the freakin' research. Don't look at the hype, look at the numbers. Find out if the shiny's stats fit your current playstyle, or if you'd have to respec to use it effectively. Ask on the forums for boff layouts -- there were people making threads on what to put where on the Avenger a good week before it came out.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • haldan1968haldan1968 Member Posts: 80 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I think that the best thing about the Avenger is her versatility. I do not have one specific weapon/boff/console load-out for my ship.

    For example, if I am doing Vault Ensnared, I will equip 3 forward beams, 3 rear, and use a lot of FAW to clean up those pesky little fighter ships that slow you down from getting to that next Tholian web spinner.

    Also, if you find yourself in a Tholian web, nothing drops one of those faster than FAW, after which I will laugh maniacally at the Tholians, "Muhahahahah! Silly Spider people! You think your insect mind is greater than mine???...."

    (ahem..) where was I?

    Oh yeah... versatility. Now another poster here mentioned that you can tell if a player is bad if they put DHCs on an Avenger, but if you are doing The Cure Found, then why not use DHCs? Nothing moves that fast on that taskforce, with the exception of some of the assimilated Klingon ships, but then that is what tractor beams, or subspace jump, or evasive maneuvers are for. Everything else just sits there. It really is shooting fish in a barrel on that one.

    And that is why I have fallen in love with the Avenger. I have gone from using three ships to using only one. The trick is to know what it is you are going up against, and load out accordingly.
  • lystentlystent Member Posts: 1,019
    edited December 2013
    I got my fleet avenger and my imperial classes built about the same... only 3 real diferences between the two: 1, avenger loads DBCs; 2, avenger loads non-combat cloak; and 3, slight tweak in the boff stations (but i have the same boff config on both of them, and run only BAs, no cloak).
  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited December 2013
    The Avenger has only one flaw as I see it

    For all of its abilitys

    It is way way way way

    Too Small
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
  • jim625jim625 Member Posts: 907 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    been playing as the avenger class ship for a while and my tacical toon was having a hard time trying to blow stuff up on the avenger class so I went back to the andorien class escort
  • captyoung01captyoung01 Member Posts: 311 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    The Avenger class is a wanna-be cross between the Intrepid Class and the Vesta. I am not buying that uncreative, unimaginative piece of *&^% for anything in the world.

    If the dev's felt so much that a battle cruiser was needed on the [Fed] side then they could have come up with something as cool as the U.S.S. Vengeance from Into Darkness.

    http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130913171830/startrek/images/f/f0/USS_Vengeance_fires_on_the_USS_Enterprise.jpg.
Sign In or Register to comment.