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Three Ship Requests: 24th/25th century+ Saladin and Nebula Variants, Defiant Cruiser
leviathan99
Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
Ships in Trek had certain well defined looks in part because there are established configurations using familiar parts... and generally, the last generation of ships would show up both as kit bashes and design influences on the next generation of supporting ships.
So... Three requests:
1. The Miranda looks like a configuration of Connie parts and the Nebula looks like its successor using Galaxy style parts. I would like to see a science vessel that takes this the next step forward by using a Sovereign style saucer and nacelles with struts and hull that take cues from the Sovereign. There have been fan designs to do this but there's enough leeway in how the artists do this that Cryptic could do their own.
I'd suggest calling this the Saratoga class or Honshu class in keeping with tradition of naming new classes after old ships that had similar configurations.
2. I'd like to see a one nacelle destroyer/escort. This idea has been all around Trek for decades and we've seen Galaxy and Connie classes that took this design. I'm partial to the Saladin variant which has the single nacelle encased in angled armored struts above the saucer. There's something I like about how these ships move but also how they FEEL like a cruiser or science ship pared down for basic function and optimized for maneuverability/battle.
If you're looking for something different, though, why not try this configuration with Intrepid aesthetics? I don't think I've ever seen that attempted before. A nice arrowhead with an armored nacelle above it.
I'd suggest maybe making this Cortez class in honor of Ben Sisko's friends ship which was lost at the beginning of Beyond the Farthest Star. The exact class of the Cortez is unknown but all soft canon attempts at identifying it seemed to posit it was a one nacelle warship of some kind.
3. This is where we get wild...
What if you took the design sensibilities of the Defiant and amped those up until you had a large cruiser with Defiant inspired contours and shapes? Maybe the bridge on top becomes a full saucer, the angles get more streamlined, the nacelles get to get pushed out to the side more on struts. More escape pods along the hull.
But rather than keeping the Defiant as such an anomaly, imagine a larger (not necessarily LARGE: I like small cruisers but largER) ship that is maybe halfway between a Defiant and something like an Ambassador.
This is the direction I'd have looked to go with an "Emissary" class as a nod back to Sisko, who designed the Defiant. But I think it would be exciting to see ships outside of the standard escort categorization that start to take cues from the Defiant in terms of deflector style, hull shape, aspects of the nacelles, etc.
So... Three requests:
1. The Miranda looks like a configuration of Connie parts and the Nebula looks like its successor using Galaxy style parts. I would like to see a science vessel that takes this the next step forward by using a Sovereign style saucer and nacelles with struts and hull that take cues from the Sovereign. There have been fan designs to do this but there's enough leeway in how the artists do this that Cryptic could do their own.
I'd suggest calling this the Saratoga class or Honshu class in keeping with tradition of naming new classes after old ships that had similar configurations.
2. I'd like to see a one nacelle destroyer/escort. This idea has been all around Trek for decades and we've seen Galaxy and Connie classes that took this design. I'm partial to the Saladin variant which has the single nacelle encased in angled armored struts above the saucer. There's something I like about how these ships move but also how they FEEL like a cruiser or science ship pared down for basic function and optimized for maneuverability/battle.
If you're looking for something different, though, why not try this configuration with Intrepid aesthetics? I don't think I've ever seen that attempted before. A nice arrowhead with an armored nacelle above it.
I'd suggest maybe making this Cortez class in honor of Ben Sisko's friends ship which was lost at the beginning of Beyond the Farthest Star. The exact class of the Cortez is unknown but all soft canon attempts at identifying it seemed to posit it was a one nacelle warship of some kind.
3. This is where we get wild...
What if you took the design sensibilities of the Defiant and amped those up until you had a large cruiser with Defiant inspired contours and shapes? Maybe the bridge on top becomes a full saucer, the angles get more streamlined, the nacelles get to get pushed out to the side more on struts. More escape pods along the hull.
But rather than keeping the Defiant as such an anomaly, imagine a larger (not necessarily LARGE: I like small cruisers but largER) ship that is maybe halfway between a Defiant and something like an Ambassador.
This is the direction I'd have looked to go with an "Emissary" class as a nod back to Sisko, who designed the Defiant. But I think it would be exciting to see ships outside of the standard escort categorization that start to take cues from the Defiant in terms of deflector style, hull shape, aspects of the nacelles, etc.
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I was never a big fan of the Sovereign style tbh, but i think such a ship would be nice to have for Sov fans. So why not.
The only thing i would like to consider is the very long nacelles, i am not sure if it looks very good directly glued under the saucer, but on the other hand the Nebula isn't one of my fav styles...
I'm not so sure about this one tbh...
The streched saucer look and one nacelle (above?) the saucer would make the ship look veeery fragile IMO...
Maybe something like the Kelvin (JJ Trek), just more modern styled?
(one variant intrepid like and another variant nebula styled.)
The second nacelle, or engineering hull (depending on which flavour you like) would make the ship look more stabile and more balanced IMO.
I'm not so sure i have understood what you mean...
A larger Defiant with the bridge module as saucer?
How would that saucer be connected with the rest of the ship?
Would that saucer sit directly above the Defiant? How big would it be?
I like your idea of a enlarged Defiant Class.
Since the overall profile of that ship is very slim, i think a big version could become at least as long as a Excelsior Class without looking humungous.
I would make the "nose" much wider and make the area where the bridge is, look like a ridge.
So the overall ship would look remotely like a stingray, keeping the Nacelles a integated part of the ship itself.
I think in "real" trek that ship could have enormus firepower, but its maximum warp speed would be much slower than other ships, because it's warp nacelles couldn't get charged as much as other ships.
Since that ships would be much bigger than the original Defiant class, i think it would need some different armaments. Forward facing cannons would be too difficult to aim. So i think it should be armed with more traditional Heavy Beam arrays, reaching along the ships silhouette. Archiving a almost as long emitter array as on a Galaxy Class. Additionally i would install something like point defense turrets, just because it looks cool. lol.
One thing I thought might be interesting if hard to balance would be side mounted dual heavies. Just two side weapon slots that can use DHCs (but none of the other weapon slots having DHC capability).
With that said, I'd still like a 25th-century vessel with the Miranda/Nebula appearance.
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I'd say the Luna, which has its nacelles below its secondary hull and a module mounted at the top, fits the description of a "mirandaesque" ship a bit better than the Vesta.
Some of its features like the shape of the saucer make it look somewhat like a mix between the Nebula, Akira and the Sovereign.
That gives me an idea: how about a bigger cousin of the Luna with a bit of a neck between the primary and secondary hulls, a lengthened sencondary hull and the nacelles at the same level as the neck? Remove the module at the top and mount the torpedo launchers in the neck. This would probably look interesting.
OT:
We know from ships like the Freedom and Cheyenne that Starfleet builds ships with more and less then two nacelles on more than one occasion.
So while it's probably not possible for Cryptic to use the Saladin itself since the license for ships from the Starfleet Technical Manual are still somewhere else the Freedom as a basis they can legally use is still on the table.
And I'd wager such a ship with Sovereign or Luna parts would look sleek and interesting.
It's already heavily oversized compared to its on screen counterpart...
Wow that must be the most ugly sollution of a single nacelled ship i have seen.
If the devs consider creating a similar ship, i only hope the do NOT make the pylon so extended and much nearer to the saucer. (similar as the JJ-Trek U.S.S. Kelvin had)
The Saucer - Nacelles size relation should be in favour of the saucer, not the nacelle IMO, otherwise the ship looks comical and totally rediculus.
This is how i would make such a ship:
That's just a quick try to make the relations of Saucer and nacelle a bit better IMO.
Regarding the Luna, i agree that the Luna IS the early 25th century Miranda equivalent (at least design vise). Creating another ship with Sovereign like parts in a Miranda configuration would only end in a ship that resembles the Luna too much.
Btw, the Luna is the best "miranda" configuration a Starfleet ship could have atm, in my opinion.
It wouldn't be very easy to top.
What i would like to see is a new design style. more basic with completely round saucers and cylinder shaped nacelles (made in a modern looking way, of course).
I think that Cryptics designs hyperbole Starfleet design a more basic approach would be welcome imo.
I don't think it would make sense for the Sovereign to get a "little sister" as the Miranda and Nebula were derivates of the heaviest ship to date. If any, a new Nebula should be assembled from the Odyssey in that regard.
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I think you've cut the neck down far too much in your take on it. Just one little nit I'd like to pick is with that torpedo pod just above the nacelle. If you cut the neck down that much I think you might end up damaging the bottom of the saucer with every torpedo launch, assuming that they didn't just impact the hull full on and detonate!
The freedom class would fit in rather nicely as a starter frigate imo. Much more modern than the miranda class, while still being slow/weak and not having that horrid looking cryptic skin for it (what was that one called, the "saratoga" class or something? The one with the A-frame pylons and the whacking great holes in the saucer?)
Anyway, I agree that the neck on the freedom is a bit long. I'd cut it down by about 1/3, taking away from the top of the neck. Basically nuking the top layer of windows and some of the empty space.
I agree, a slightly more basic and less 'busy' looking style would fit nicely especially considering that there is a war on and they need to get ships out there asap to cover losses from borg invisi-torps!
Applying the same idea to the jupiter uniforms would be nice too.
(where the Phaser lance on the G-X is)
The problem i see with too much extended pylons is that the ship looks too small and fragile then. That's what i criticise at the Sovereign design too.
I would have preferred integrated or at least smaller nacelles on a advanced ship like the Ent -E. Mabe even something like stoleviathan99 suggested with his Defiant Cruiser.
Regarding the ship above, i would put a second nacelle on top of the saucer (mirroring the lower one) to make the ships shape look much more stable and well better IMO.
Well to be fair with them, when they created the ship from model parts for "The Best of Both Worlds" it was most likely meant as a direct nod to the old Saladin.
And that particular ship has the same problem of a very long neck as well.
But then that ship must have that long neck since otherwise the delfector "sat" dish would totally obstruct the nacelle something not the case with the Freedom class.
Also that the underside of the Saladin's saucer is not flat helps with aestetics as well.
Despite everything else, I think Ryan Church did a very good job with the Kelvin in the 2009 movie, with the short neck and secondary hull on top the ship looks more balanced.
There was also a kitbash model with two nacelles in the Wolf 359 graveyard scene but then the Challenger class looks a lot different overall.
I built a model of the Freedom Class for Star Trek Legacy:
I also made the 2 vertical nacelle variant called the Challenger Class:
And the 3 nacelle Galaxy Ambassador Hybrid the Niagara Class:
So I think there is potential for more variants/ship designs that depart from the traditional twin nacelle approach.
"I walked away from the last great Time War. I marked the passing of the Time Lords. I saw the birth of the universe and watched as time ran out, moment by moment, until nothing remained. No time, no space. Just me!"
There was quite a beautiful model of that that someone had made when I was playing an old ST PC game where you could import custom models created by other people. I looked for it again when I started playing STO but couldn't find it.
The two and three nacelles models really don't look terrible at all
By the way: Do you have any idea how I can get ST Legacy to work with a windows 7 computer?
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You sure you want to do that? :P
Those look really great, thank you for the pics.:)
Indeed, while they're technically little more than variations of a theme they show that when well done, like in your case, they can be much more than that. And that proves that the idea of "big and little cousins" is something Cryptic should explore much more.
There's a lot of wasste potential there IMHO.
Oh BTW one design drawing that I found interesting was for the Pegasus from the TNG episode...the one with the Phase Cloak.
It seems she was not supposed to be an Oberth but that class was chosen due to budget.
One of the ideas was a ship with 4 nacelles (Cheyenne?) and one was this:
I think you all see what this is: a Nebula with Ambassador parts. Another example of potential Cryptic should look into.
Hehe, not for the original game (we took anything if it beared the Star Trek back then, didn't we?
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True, the Luna doesn't feel like a slim/more efficient sovereign class. But it think its designer had a Miranda /Nebula configuration in mind.
Idon't know about the novels the luna where made for, and what its capabilities are in those novels, but for me she looks like a Starfleet cruiser and not especially sciency.
(but i could say the same thing about the Intrepid too.)
http://legacy.filefront.com/file/Kelvin_Class;79248
there is not much difference between the sovereign and the Kelvin, but i still liked it, and i always thought it was the next logical step in the neb's evolution.
Fed: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=780321
RR: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=12150781#post12150781
KDF: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=784941
To be fair to the Miranda and the Nebula, both had some custom-built parts and were not total kitbashes.
The Miranda's entire main hull was derived from the Connie refit but from the forward half of the sauce on it's a new design, otherwise she'd look like the New Heavy Cruisers from "Star Fleet Battles".:)
And in case of the Nebula (physical model version) the whole secondary hull was a new design including a totally new deflector shape.
It wasn't until DS9 switched over to CGI that the Nebula model used a barely altered Galaxy-style secondary hull. So before that change I must say that I don't share your view that the people who made that ships didn't do so with much care.
I'm still unhappy that the secondary hull design of the phsical model is not available in STO and we're stuck with the CGI version that was really kitbashed.
That you feel the Luna is not a "smaller cousin" of another ship is understandable, before this thread had opened I had never considered the idea either actually.
What a "larger cousin" might look like just suddenly took shape in my mind as I read this thread. As far as a fictional history for such a class is concerned it might even be a similar case: after the success of the Luna the designers might have looked at a way to capitalize in its success by building a larger version for longer-term missions.
Given the size of the Luna (450 m, 350 crew) a bigger model might be their version of a modern Excelsior replacement that is less of an offensive platform than the Akira for example. It's just a though anyways.:)
But I've thought about why the Luna isn't perceived by...well pracitcally anyone besides me until yesterday as the smaller cousin of another ship: in case of the Miranda and the Nebula we always saw the bigger versions, Constitution and Galaxy, first. Mayb that's the rather mundane reason we think of them in such a way.
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Luna_class
Sounds very sciency to me.:P
That's the one! I loved that variant!
Then her 5 phaser banks must be very powerful ones.
And everything besides the Defiant being sciency...not any more.
Not even in soft canon are ships like the Prometheus, Akira and Saber being called ships built for science.;)