I've been looking around forever and have never been able to find any concrete information about the behavior of negative damage resistance. Is it possible we could get some sort of description of how the diminishing returns curve applies when damage resistance is below zero?
I've been looking around forever and have never been able to find any concrete information about the behavior of negative damage resistance. Is it possible we could get some sort of description of how the diminishing returns curve applies when damage resistance is below zero?
In theory its like playing go fish if your opponent has nothing to take you can't take what they don't have.
Right now I'm running 1 standard disruptor, 2 nanite and 1 Elachi DHC, 1 standard disruptor turret and 1 nanite turret together with a KCB. I hope to at least achieve -15 damage rating with this set up during field testing. Off to kerrat!
Though it would be interesting to see if swapping the standard and nanite DHCs to plas-dis, pol-dis and elite fleet dis results in all their procs stacking netting -45 damage res! If it works, that would completely negate anyone's Fleet Neutronium console!
In that other MMO, the more armor pen you stack, the more bang for your buck you get because when you have diminishing return going up the curve, you get increasing returns going down. If the formula for calculating damage is the same, then maybe stacking more -dam is better.
Maybe building completely around stacking -DamRes with ApB and shield-piercing doff powers is a good idea here.
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
But we know that's not the case, because we can see numbers reflecting some form of negative DR.
Best thing I can say is setup a test bed where you aren't shooting at anyone just so you can monitor your DR while being constantly hit with just debuffs. In which that was basically stated about the issue and you can monitor your damage resistance rate to see how each debuff affects you. I'll probally be testing this as well with my sci that uses every disruptor type proc in the game to see if it can go into the negative.
Best thing I can say is setup a test bed where you aren't shooting at anyone just so you can monitor your DR while being constantly hit with just debuffs. In which that was basically stated about the issue and you can monitor your damage resistance rate to see how each debuff affects you. I'll probally be testing this as well with my sci that uses every disruptor type proc in the game to see if it can go into the negative.
That's how I tested the stacking in the first place. Second client, low weapon power firing at another guy. That was prior to the change of the double Disruptor stacking fix though. I can't remember how comprehensive my post on that was...it's kind of a PITA, because in going for multiple stacks - running multiple weapons - you're lowering your overall probability for it to happen as opposed to having multiple guys outfitted with different varieties of Disruptors firing on the same guinea pig...heh.
What I'm looking for is at least very difficult, if not impossible, to determine with in-game testing. I am trying to find a generalized formula to calculate damage resistance below zero so I can do some math with damage type comparison. We have had this information for a long time for positive values, but below zero the equations don't hold up.
Also, I believe I've tried just inverting the equation around zero, and that didn't match up either. There seems to be an entirely different calculation going on for negative resistance.
I'd bring up the samples I recorded but they were collected before they changed disruptors to not scale with damage bonuses, so they're not entirely relevant anymore.
That's how I tested the stacking in the first place. Second client, low weapon power firing at another guy. That was prior to the change of the double Disruptor stacking fix though. I can't remember how comprehensive my post on that was...it's kind of a PITA, because in going for multiple stacks - running multiple weapons - you're lowering your overall probability for it to happen as opposed to having multiple guys outfitted with different varieties of Disruptors firing on the same guinea pig...heh.
To be as nice as I can to try to explain it please review the differences in the Quad, DHC, DC, and turrets. Then apply that information with rapid fire skills and the pulses per volley then analyze that and get back to me on the overall probability.
To sum it up without lowering too much damage output I have setup some cannon types to allow me a chance to increase my outcome with procs while others have less of a chance they are nowhere near lowering my overall probability.
Hrmmm, not sure what that has to do with what I said...hrmmm.
2.5000% chance to get a proc from one weapon.
0.0625% chance to get two different procs from two different weapons at the same time.
0.0016% chance to get three different procs from three different weapons at the same time.
4.9375% chance to get a proc from two of the same weapon.
0.2438% chance to get two different procs from two sets of the two different weapons at the same time.
0.0120% chance to get three different procs from three sets of two different weapons at the same time.
18.3348% chance to get a proc from eight of the same weapon.
00.6164% chance to get a proc from three guys firing eight of the same weapon.
0.6164% vs. 0.0120%
It would be easier to have multiple folks firing at somebody to test it than having one guy test it on another.
Hrmmm, not sure what that has to do with what I said...hrmmm.
2.5000% chance to get a proc from one weapon.
0.0625% chance to get two different procs from two different weapons at the same time.
0.0016% chance to get three different procs from three different weapons at the same time.
4.9375% chance to get a proc from two of the same weapon.
0.2438% chance to get two different procs from two sets of the two different weapons at the same time.
0.0120% chance to get three different procs from three sets of two different weapons at the same time.
18.3348% chance to get a proc from eight of the same weapon.
00.6164% chance to get a proc from three guys firing eight of the same weapon.
0.6164% vs. 0.0120%
It would be easier to have multiple folks firing at somebody to test it than having one guy test it on another.
Okay beyond the obvious there are multiple factors that come into play. So beyond a few volleys you might have tested unless there are multiple on going long term testing being done like stated in a previous post trying to compare something with a 2.5% chance can go anywhere calculating it like that but also there are so many variables in play especially with the elachi one it all boils down to what will get you the most pulses either be it beams or cannons. Which basically was my whole point that is been dragged elsewhere.
Although I did do my own testing and the quads and the DC nanites like I was stating were the procs that proc'd the most. With my tests with another person we found out that if you have a resistance under 40% the diminishing returns were almost non existent. However the ones under 40% depending on the procs would go from -20 - 40 and in rarer cases where the elachi, disruptor, and nanite disruptor were all proc'd it brought it to -45 in everything except kinetic where it briefly hit -51.
Now for anything 40% or above with just a disruptor proc it dropped it down 20% but when multiple procs landed it went from about 5.3% to 5.7%. So it can go into the negative but it seems the diminishing returns are in blocks of a factor of 20%. Which unless you can get 40% or more in every possible resist type you are going to get in the negative with maximum overall probability.
I've been looking around forever and have never been able to find any concrete information about the behavior of negative damage resistance. Is it possible we could get some sort of description of how the diminishing returns curve applies when damage resistance is below zero?
My best guess is that it works in the same way that you get diminishing returns on armor consoles. But with the possibility of negative numbers.
That's what I thought too, but based on the numbers that heero139 gave in an earlier thread, I don't think the formula for positive damage resistances applies to negative damage resistances. It's unclear how negative damage resistances are calculated.
I added a note to the spreadsheet linked in that thread. Just want to point out that the exact mechanics I was working with using the disruptor debuff have been changed, but the relationships between damage resistance % and magnitude should still be relevant.
It's something that perhaps Bort or one of the other devs could clear up, since there are still folks arguing whether it is Per Volley or Per Cycle. I go with the testing that suggest that it is Per Cycle (from the various DHC vs. DC comparisons that have been done).
8 Arrays would give 24 cycles in a 15s period.
8 Cannons (4 DHCs/DCs/QHCs/Cannons & 4 Turrets) would give 40 cycles in a 15s period.
8 Arrays would give 96 shots in a 15s period.
8 Cannons (4 Cannons & 4 Turrets) would give 160 shots in a 15s period.
The issue I was talking about was in trying to land multiple different procs. You're not going to have 8 of the same weapon.
You'd be looking at...
Arrays: 6 Cycles or 24 Shots in a 15s period.
Cannons: 10 Cycles or 40 Shots in a 15s period.
So to start with, you'd be looking at a lower probability of landing the proc from 2 weapons instead of 8. On top of that, well - admittedly I went with the simplest (albeit not entirely correct) form of landing all 4 procs...thus, landing the procs at the same time. Thus the 0.025^4...and the below 2.5% chance of it happening (though my previous example was just with trying to land 3 procs (don't have either the Elite Fleet or Romulan Plasma on that particular toon)). Technically though, you'd only need to land all 4 procs within the duration of their uptime.
With the testing of the 3 procs that I did previously, I never landed all 3 procs. However, I did land proc A + B, proc A+C, proc B+C. Since each stacked, it was logical to follow that all three could stack. The probability...outside of a group each firing multiple weapons of the same type though, is going to be extremely low.
Still, that's somewhat moot - because in testing again, things went unexpectedly.
Part of the changes that were put through to address the "Double Disruptor Proc" where the Disurptor debuff was much higher than expected, it was stated that DR resists DR debuffs.
Removing armor consoles, so the target was left with a DR of 16.6% (20 DRR) showed the following happening:
12.4 (Nan-Dis)
9.7 (Pol-Dis or Pla-Dis)
5.2 (Nan-Dis and Pol-Dis or Nan-Dis and Pla-Dis)
Notice there are only three? Where's the Pla-Dis and Pol-Dis? They no longer stack. Each of them displays their debuff. The Nan-Dis a single debuff, while both the Pla-Dis and Pol-Dis display two. The Nan-Dis displays the Nanite Cloud, while the Pla-Dis and Pol-Dis display a Disruptor Breech and either the Drain or Plasma DoT.
About 50 minutes into testing, three debuffs showed: Breech, Drain, and DoT. DR showed as 9.7%...so, they no longer "stack" as far as the debuff goes. The Breech is overwritten (leaving me to wonder if that goes back to the regular Disruptor is overwritten as well). A curious note as well would be that around 35 minutes in, the Pla-Dis stacked its Plasma DoT. Yep, 9.7% DR with the Plasma DoT debuff showing the number 2.
Okay then, let's look at those actual numbers though, eh?
16.6 DR (20 DRR)
-5 DRR...13.0%, not 12.4%
Okay, so how about -4.17? 13.6%...
WTF? Where did the 12.4% come from then? That would be ~14.19 DRR.
That's a difference of 5.81...116.2%...um...um...er...huh?
16.6 DR (20 DRR)
-10 DRR...9.08%, not 9.7%
Okay, so how about -8.34? 10.4%...
WTF? Where did the 9.7% come from then? That would be ~10.76 DRR.
That's a difference of 9.24...92.4%...7.6% resistance? Er...huh?
16.6 DR (20 DRR)
-15 DRR...4.76%. not 5.2%
Where did the 5.2% come from? ~5.49 DRR.
A difference of -14.51...meh.
So um...no longer stacks, okay - fine - I guess. But uh, why are all three of them so off compared to what might be expected?
Oh well, my wee brain needs some sleep - I'll look at this again later.
Wouldn't mind somebody stepping in and stating the obvious thing that I'm missing here (I don't have that kind of ego, so I don't care...I just want to know)...
edit: Meh, I should run a parse and see what the log shows the resists to be...no idea why I thought to trust the tooltips without double-checking...half-asleep - I'll do that later.
It's something that perhaps Bort or one of the other devs could clear up, since there are still folks arguing whether it is Per Volley or Per Cycle. I go with the testing that suggest that it is Per Cycle (from the various DHC vs. DC comparisons that have been done).
8 Arrays would give 24 cycles in a 15s period.
8 Cannons (4 DHCs/DCs/QHCs/Cannons & 4 Turrets) would give 40 cycles in a 15s period.
8 Arrays would give 96 shots in a 15s period.
8 Cannons (4 Cannons & 4 Turrets) would give 160 shots in a 15s period.
The issue I was talking about was in trying to land multiple different procs. You're not going to have 8 of the same weapon.
You'd be looking at...
Arrays: 6 Cycles or 24 Shots in a 15s period.
Cannons: 10 Cycles or 40 Shots in a 15s period.
So to start with, you'd be looking at a lower probability of landing the proc from 2 weapons instead of 8. On top of that, well - admittedly I went with the simplest (albeit not entirely correct) form of landing all 4 procs...thus, landing the procs at the same time. Thus the 0.025^4...and the below 2.5% chance of it happening (though my previous example was just with trying to land 3 procs (don't have either the Elite Fleet or Romulan Plasma on that particular toon)). Technically though, you'd only need to land all 4 procs within the duration of their uptime.
With the testing of the 3 procs that I did previously, I never landed all 3 procs. However, I did land proc A + B, proc A+C, proc B+C. Since each stacked, it was logical to follow that all three could stack. The probability...outside of a group each firing multiple weapons of the same type though, is going to be extremely low.
Yeah, it would be ideal, but I'm a solo player when farming Kerrat and I pug a lot so I really don't plan to have to depend on someone else to bring a different type of disruptor.
I guess a team setup would have about 2x EF-dis, 2x Nan-Dis and 1 escort packing Ela-dis with Nan and EF dis turrets in the back row.
But thx for reminding me about proc chance, this morning's kerrat round yielded only a few procs on the target, but so far with 1 dis, 2 nan-dis, 1 Ela-dis DHCs and 1 dis, 1 nan-dis turrets, I've managed to sustain -15 damres on the tac cube before it blew up in one CRF cycle. I suppose any less would make the procs more likely to fall off without being sustained.
Still, that's somewhat moot - because in testing again, things went unexpectedly.
Part of the changes that were put through to address the "Double Disruptor Proc" where the Disurptor debuff was much higher than expected, it was stated that DR resists DR debuffs.
Removing armor consoles, so the target was left with a DR of 16.6% (20 DRR) showed the following happening:
12.4 (Nan-Dis)
9.7 (Pol-Dis or Pla-Dis)
5.2 (Nan-Dis and Pol-Dis or Nan-Dis and Pla-Dis)
Notice there are only three? Where's the Pla-Dis and Pol-Dis? They no longer stack. Each of them displays their debuff. The Nan-Dis a single debuff, while both the Pla-Dis and Pol-Dis display two. The Nan-Dis displays the Nanite Cloud, while the Pla-Dis and Pol-Dis display a Disruptor Breech and either the Drain or Plasma DoT.
About 50 minutes into testing, three debuffs showed: Breech, Drain, and DoT. DR showed as 9.7%...so, they no longer "stack" as far as the debuff goes. The Breech is overwritten (leaving me to wonder if that goes back to the regular Disruptor is overwritten as well). A curious note as well would be that around 35 minutes in, the Pla-Dis stacked its Plasma DoT. Yep, 9.7% DR with the Plasma DoT debuff showing the number 2.
Okay then, let's look at those actual numbers though, eh?
16.6 DR (20 DRR)
-5 DRR...13.0%, not 12.4%
Okay, so how about -4.17? 13.6%...
WTF? Where did the 12.4% come from then? That would be ~14.19 DRR.
That's a difference of 5.81...116.2%...um...um...er...huh?
16.6 DR (20 DRR)
-10 DRR...9.08%, not 9.7%
Okay, so how about -8.34? 10.4%...
WTF? Where did the 9.7% come from then? That would be ~10.76 DRR.
That's a difference of 9.24...92.4%...7.6% resistance? Er...huh?
16.6 DR (20 DRR)
-15 DRR...4.76%. not 5.2%
Where did the 5.2% come from? ~5.49 DRR.
A difference of -14.51...meh.
So um...no longer stacks, okay - fine - I guess. But uh, why are all three of them so off compared to what might be expected?
Oh well, my wee brain needs some sleep - I'll look at this again later.
Wouldn't mind somebody stepping in and stating the obvious thing that I'm missing here (I don't have that kind of ego, so I don't care...I just want to know)...
Maybe there are dimishing returns from -dam stacking.
What I mean is, you hit something with -damres, the game takes the integer value using the natural number without the negative as DRR, converts that to DR, then takes THAT value and subtract it from the existing DR.
This would cause the reduction in DamRes to be LESS than the stated amount in negative DRR as listed on the weapon, as you've noticed. Also, its a terrible way to apply -damres if you ask me. It means the more -DRR I'm stacking, the less I'm getting for each new debuff I'm tossing on the target!!
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Maybe there are dimishing returns from -dam stacking.
What I mean is, you hit something with -damres, the game takes the integer value using the natural number without the negative as DRR, converts that to DR, then takes THAT value and subtract it from the existing DR.
This would cause the reduction in DamRes to be LESS than the stated amount in negative DRR as listed on the weapon, as you've noticed. Also, its a terrible way to apply -damres if you ask me. It means the more -DRR I'm stacking, the less I'm getting for each new debuff I'm tossing on the target!!
That conjecture doesn't seem to match virusdancer's numbers either.
virusdancer, how did you arrive at your base damage resistance? Did you sum your resistance ratings? If so, are you sure you didn't forget something like an accolade?
In theory its like playing go fish if your opponent has nothing to take you can't take what they don't have.
Old math joke:
A mathematician, a biologist, and a physicist are sitting in a street cafe watching people going in and coming out of the house on the other side of the street.
First, they see two people going into the house. Time passes. After a while, they notice three people coming out of the house.
The Physicist: The measurement wasn't accurate.
The Biologist: They have reproduced.
The Mathematician: If now exactly one person enters the house, then it will be empty again.
virusdancer, how did you arrive at your base damage resistance? Did you sum your resistance ratings? If so, are you sure you didn't forget something like an accolade?
From general play and previous testing, that toon's normal base is 27% DR (37.5 DRR). In the hopes of trying to get as low a number as possible (an apparently impossible 3stack), I removed his 17.5 Neut. That would leave him with 20 DRR. Running that number through the formula would give him 16.6% DR - which matches the listed value on the ship info page. 16.6% is also one of the values on STOwiki's DR chart...with 20 DRR = 16.6%.
To get to that 20 though, one could add the DRR from scratch...
The elachi weapons not only stop you from landing another proc for 5 seconds, it also stops anyone else on your team from landing a proc ( any proc from any energy type doesn't work for 5 seconds, this is why i have stopped using them ).
Only stops you..not your team......youve stopped using them because you were fed bad info.
Only stops you..not your team......youve stopped using them because you were fed bad info.
*shoots grinningsphinx in the foot for necroing the thread*
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Comments
This would really be awesome. ---^
In theory its like playing go fish if your opponent has nothing to take you can't take what they don't have.
My character Tsin'xing
But we know that's not the case, because we can see numbers reflecting some form of negative DR.
Right now I'm running 1 standard disruptor, 2 nanite and 1 Elachi DHC, 1 standard disruptor turret and 1 nanite turret together with a KCB. I hope to at least achieve -15 damage rating with this set up during field testing. Off to kerrat!
Though it would be interesting to see if swapping the standard and nanite DHCs to plas-dis, pol-dis and elite fleet dis results in all their procs stacking netting -45 damage res! If it works, that would completely negate anyone's Fleet Neutronium console!
In that other MMO, the more armor pen you stack, the more bang for your buck you get because when you have diminishing return going up the curve, you get increasing returns going down. If the formula for calculating damage is the same, then maybe stacking more -dam is better.
Maybe building completely around stacking -DamRes with ApB and shield-piercing doff powers is a good idea here.
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
Best thing I can say is setup a test bed where you aren't shooting at anyone just so you can monitor your DR while being constantly hit with just debuffs. In which that was basically stated about the issue and you can monitor your damage resistance rate to see how each debuff affects you. I'll probally be testing this as well with my sci that uses every disruptor type proc in the game to see if it can go into the negative.
That's how I tested the stacking in the first place. Second client, low weapon power firing at another guy. That was prior to the change of the double Disruptor stacking fix though. I can't remember how comprehensive my post on that was...it's kind of a PITA, because in going for multiple stacks - running multiple weapons - you're lowering your overall probability for it to happen as opposed to having multiple guys outfitted with different varieties of Disruptors firing on the same guinea pig...heh.
Also, I believe I've tried just inverting the equation around zero, and that didn't match up either. There seems to be an entirely different calculation going on for negative resistance.
I'd bring up the samples I recorded but they were collected before they changed disruptors to not scale with damage bonuses, so they're not entirely relevant anymore.
To be as nice as I can to try to explain it please review the differences in the Quad, DHC, DC, and turrets. Then apply that information with rapid fire skills and the pulses per volley then analyze that and get back to me on the overall probability.
To sum it up without lowering too much damage output I have setup some cannon types to allow me a chance to increase my outcome with procs while others have less of a chance they are nowhere near lowering my overall probability.
Hrmmm, not sure what that has to do with what I said...hrmmm.
2.5000% chance to get a proc from one weapon.
0.0625% chance to get two different procs from two different weapons at the same time.
0.0016% chance to get three different procs from three different weapons at the same time.
4.9375% chance to get a proc from two of the same weapon.
0.2438% chance to get two different procs from two sets of the two different weapons at the same time.
0.0120% chance to get three different procs from three sets of two different weapons at the same time.
18.3348% chance to get a proc from eight of the same weapon.
00.6164% chance to get a proc from three guys firing eight of the same weapon.
0.6164% vs. 0.0120%
It would be easier to have multiple folks firing at somebody to test it than having one guy test it on another.
Okay beyond the obvious there are multiple factors that come into play. So beyond a few volleys you might have tested unless there are multiple on going long term testing being done like stated in a previous post trying to compare something with a 2.5% chance can go anywhere calculating it like that but also there are so many variables in play especially with the elachi one it all boils down to what will get you the most pulses either be it beams or cannons. Which basically was my whole point that is been dragged elsewhere.
Although I did do my own testing and the quads and the DC nanites like I was stating were the procs that proc'd the most. With my tests with another person we found out that if you have a resistance under 40% the diminishing returns were almost non existent. However the ones under 40% depending on the procs would go from -20 - 40 and in rarer cases where the elachi, disruptor, and nanite disruptor were all proc'd it brought it to -45 in everything except kinetic where it briefly hit -51.
Now for anything 40% or above with just a disruptor proc it dropped it down 20% but when multiple procs landed it went from about 5.3% to 5.7%. So it can go into the negative but it seems the diminishing returns are in blocks of a factor of 20%. Which unless you can get 40% or more in every possible resist type you are going to get in the negative with maximum overall probability.
I also would like to know how negative damage resistances work.
That's what I thought too, but based on the numbers that heero139 gave in an earlier thread, I don't think the formula for positive damage resistances applies to negative damage resistances. It's unclear how negative damage resistances are calculated.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=733251
8 Arrays would give 24 cycles in a 15s period.
8 Cannons (4 DHCs/DCs/QHCs/Cannons & 4 Turrets) would give 40 cycles in a 15s period.
8 Arrays would give 96 shots in a 15s period.
8 Cannons (4 Cannons & 4 Turrets) would give 160 shots in a 15s period.
The issue I was talking about was in trying to land multiple different procs. You're not going to have 8 of the same weapon.
You'd be looking at...
Arrays: 6 Cycles or 24 Shots in a 15s period.
Cannons: 10 Cycles or 40 Shots in a 15s period.
So to start with, you'd be looking at a lower probability of landing the proc from 2 weapons instead of 8. On top of that, well - admittedly I went with the simplest (albeit not entirely correct) form of landing all 4 procs...thus, landing the procs at the same time. Thus the 0.025^4...and the below 2.5% chance of it happening (though my previous example was just with trying to land 3 procs (don't have either the Elite Fleet or Romulan Plasma on that particular toon)). Technically though, you'd only need to land all 4 procs within the duration of their uptime.
With the testing of the 3 procs that I did previously, I never landed all 3 procs. However, I did land proc A + B, proc A+C, proc B+C. Since each stacked, it was logical to follow that all three could stack. The probability...outside of a group each firing multiple weapons of the same type though, is going to be extremely low.
Still, that's somewhat moot - because in testing again, things went unexpectedly.
Part of the changes that were put through to address the "Double Disruptor Proc" where the Disurptor debuff was much higher than expected, it was stated that DR resists DR debuffs.
Removing armor consoles, so the target was left with a DR of 16.6% (20 DRR) showed the following happening:
12.4 (Nan-Dis)
9.7 (Pol-Dis or Pla-Dis)
5.2 (Nan-Dis and Pol-Dis or Nan-Dis and Pla-Dis)
Notice there are only three? Where's the Pla-Dis and Pol-Dis? They no longer stack. Each of them displays their debuff. The Nan-Dis a single debuff, while both the Pla-Dis and Pol-Dis display two. The Nan-Dis displays the Nanite Cloud, while the Pla-Dis and Pol-Dis display a Disruptor Breech and either the Drain or Plasma DoT.
About 50 minutes into testing, three debuffs showed: Breech, Drain, and DoT. DR showed as 9.7%...so, they no longer "stack" as far as the debuff goes. The Breech is overwritten (leaving me to wonder if that goes back to the regular Disruptor is overwritten as well). A curious note as well would be that around 35 minutes in, the Pla-Dis stacked its Plasma DoT. Yep, 9.7% DR with the Plasma DoT debuff showing the number 2.
Okay then, let's look at those actual numbers though, eh?
16.6 DR (20 DRR)
-5 DRR...13.0%, not 12.4%
Okay, so how about -4.17? 13.6%...
WTF? Where did the 12.4% come from then? That would be ~14.19 DRR.
That's a difference of 5.81...116.2%...um...um...er...huh?
16.6 DR (20 DRR)
-10 DRR...9.08%, not 9.7%
Okay, so how about -8.34? 10.4%...
WTF? Where did the 9.7% come from then? That would be ~10.76 DRR.
That's a difference of 9.24...92.4%...7.6% resistance? Er...huh?
16.6 DR (20 DRR)
-15 DRR...4.76%. not 5.2%
Where did the 5.2% come from? ~5.49 DRR.
A difference of -14.51...meh.
So um...no longer stacks, okay - fine - I guess. But uh, why are all three of them so off compared to what might be expected?
Oh well, my wee brain needs some sleep - I'll look at this again later.
Wouldn't mind somebody stepping in and stating the obvious thing that I'm missing here (I don't have that kind of ego, so I don't care...I just want to know)...
edit: Meh, I should run a parse and see what the log shows the resists to be...no idea why I thought to trust the tooltips without double-checking...half-asleep - I'll do that later.
I guess a team setup would have about 2x EF-dis, 2x Nan-Dis and 1 escort packing Ela-dis with Nan and EF dis turrets in the back row.
But thx for reminding me about proc chance, this morning's kerrat round yielded only a few procs on the target, but so far with 1 dis, 2 nan-dis, 1 Ela-dis DHCs and 1 dis, 1 nan-dis turrets, I've managed to sustain -15 damres on the tac cube before it blew up in one CRF cycle. I suppose any less would make the procs more likely to fall off without being sustained.
Maybe there are dimishing returns from -dam stacking.
What I mean is, you hit something with -damres, the game takes the integer value using the natural number without the negative as DRR, converts that to DR, then takes THAT value and subtract it from the existing DR.
This would cause the reduction in DamRes to be LESS than the stated amount in negative DRR as listed on the weapon, as you've noticed. Also, its a terrible way to apply -damres if you ask me. It means the more -DRR I'm stacking, the less I'm getting for each new debuff I'm tossing on the target!!
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That conjecture doesn't seem to match virusdancer's numbers either.
d(r) := 3*(1/4 - (75 / (150 + r))^2)
0.166 - d(5) = 0.118 (not 0.124)
0.166 - d(10) = 0.075 (not 0.097)
0.166 - d(15) = 0.036 (not 0.052)
Also, adjudicatorhawk said that disruptor procs are supposed to substract from damage resistance rating. See the post linked below:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=11441141&postcount=115
virusdancer, how did you arrive at your base damage resistance? Did you sum your resistance ratings? If so, are you sure you didn't forget something like an accolade?
Old math joke:
A mathematician, a biologist, and a physicist are sitting in a street cafe watching people going in and coming out of the house on the other side of the street.
First, they see two people going into the house. Time passes. After a while, they notice three people coming out of the house.
The Physicist: The measurement wasn't accurate.
The Biologist: They have reproduced.
The Mathematician: If now exactly one person enters the house, then it will be empty again.
From general play and previous testing, that toon's normal base is 27% DR (37.5 DRR). In the hopes of trying to get as low a number as possible (an apparently impossible 3stack), I removed his 17.5 Neut. That would leave him with 20 DRR. Running that number through the formula would give him 16.6% DR - which matches the listed value on the ship info page. 16.6% is also one of the values on STOwiki's DR chart...with 20 DRR = 16.6%.
To get to that 20 though, one could add the DRR from scratch...
Accolades (each): +2 DRR
Skill - Starship Threat Control 3: +5.4 DRR
Skill - Starship Hull Plating 6: +12.6 DRR
2 + 5.4 + 12.6 = 20 DRR...which converts to the listed 16.6% DR.
Only stops you..not your team......youve stopped using them because you were fed bad info.
*shoots grinningsphinx in the foot for necroing the thread*
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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