Disruptor Variant Proc Stacking

khayuung

Does the procs from normal disruptors and nanite disruptors stack?

Do they get interfered by the Elachi disruptor proc, or does it stack along as well?

And how about the KDF Fleet disruptors?

virusdancer

Nanite, Plasma-Disruptor Hybrid, and Polarized procs can stack.

The Romulan Plasma Disruptor proc will also stack with those.

Can't remember if those overwrite a normal Disruptor proc.

Never had access to the Elite Fleet Disruptors to see if that stacked as well (it likely should, since it's another of the dual procs).

z3ndor99

The elachi weapons not only stop you from landing another proc for 5 seconds, it also stops anyone else on your team from landing a proc ( any proc from any energy type doesn't work for 5 seconds, this is why i have stopped using them ).

stoutes

^^ That is rather... painful.

Never used them, and now probably never will.

eulifdavis

z3ndor99 wrote: »

The elachi weapons not only stop you from landing another proc for 5 seconds, it also stops anyone else on your team from landing a proc ( any proc from any energy type doesn't work for 5 seconds, this is why i have stopped using them ).

Never noticed that. I'll be watching for it now.

z3ndor99

Yeah there was a thread the other day about the elachi weapons, someone asked how the proc works and, borticus explained that's how they work ( yeah not great huh ).

assimilatedktar

z3ndor99 wrote: »

The elachi weapons not only stop you from landing another proc for 5 seconds, it also stops anyone else on your team from landing a proc ( any proc from any energy type doesn't work for 5 seconds, this is why i have stopped using them ).

Dammit, I have to get rid of that TRIBBLE.-_-

bones1970

Source ?? Before i spent mil's of ec !!

virusdancer

z3ndor99 wrote: »

The elachi weapons not only stop you from landing another proc for 5 seconds, it also stops anyone else on your team from landing a proc ( any proc from any energy type doesn't work for 5 seconds, this is why i have stopped using them ).

Will have to look at this when the server comes back up. The 5s immunity is supposed to be for another Elachi piercing proc. The Elachi do not apply an actual Disruptor proc - just the 100% shield penetration/ignore 50% damage resistance on that hit (yes, which makes the Elachi Turrets complete /facepalm)...

virusdancer

z3ndor99 wrote: »

Yeah there was a thread the other day about the elachi weapons, someone asked how the proc works and, borticus explained that's how they work ( yeah not great huh ).

I don't believe that's what Bort was saying...

/sigh

...but I can see where it was unclear.

oracion666 wrote: »

My question is this. The tool tips on the space weaponry say 'max once per five seconds.' Does that apply to one proc at a time for ALL elachi weapons you have going at once, or is it once per weapon? For instance, you have four elachi heavy cannons equipped. When one procs, are the other three not allowed to proc for five seconds, or just the one that procced?

borticuscryptic wrote: »

Being the victim of this proc puts you into a 5second lockout period, during which time you cannot be affected by additional procs regardless of the source.

So it's not only all your weapons, but those of your teammates as well.

I believe he's stating that it's a 5s immunity to the Elachi proc...for your weapons, anybody else's weapons - just like the Phaser proc immunity.

lucho80

From: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=12295701&postcount=3

borticuscryptic wrote: »

Being the victim of this proc puts you into a 5second lockout period, during which time you cannot be affected by additional procs regardless of the source.

So it's not only all your weapons, but those of your teammates as well.

bones1970

z3ndor99 wrote: »

Yeah there was a thread the other day about the elachi weapons, someone asked how the proc works and, borticus explained that's how they work ( yeah not great huh ).

Found the thread:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=847601&highlight=elachi+weapons

khayuung

virusdancer wrote: »

Nanite, Plasma-Disruptor Hybrid, and Polarized procs can stack.

The Romulan Plasma Disruptor proc will also stack with those.

Can't remember if those overwrite a normal Disruptor proc.

Never had access to the Elite Fleet Disruptors to see if that stacked as well (it likely should, since it's another of the dual procs).

Ah, that helps. All the dual procs are in fact a normal disruptor proc and another proc on top of that. However, a nanite proc is a different proc altogether, even has a different +dam debuff value. Based on your experience I'd theorize that I would see polaron and plasma procs stacking up, but 1 normal disruptor debuff.

Based on this though: http://imgur.com/a/S3lWA

The KDF proc is in fact 2 procs so theoretically only the shield debuff will apply while the disruptor debuff gets overwritten.

It would be nice if someone could test this out, I'm a little short on credits as my kerrat farming have been bad lately...

z3ndor99 wrote: »

The elachi weapons not only stop you from landing another proc for 5 seconds, it also stops anyone else on your team from landing a proc ( any proc from any energy type doesn't work for 5 seconds, this is why i have stopped using them ).

I'd have to disagree with this. I saw the Crippling Fire, Romulan Plasma Disruption and Crescent Wave debuff pop up on a tac cube I was shooting at. It was what gave me the idea that I could mix the various disruptor weapons for 1 energy type specific "rainbow proc" stacking.

drowrulesupreme

virusdancer wrote: »

/sigh

That's not what Bort said.

It's a 5s immunity to the Elachi proc...for your weapons, anybody else's weapons - just like the Phaser proc immunity.

I've got to say, Virus, that the Borticus quote you gave does still seem ambiguous. I could read it as you have, and that would be fine, but I could also read it (without changing any words)...

"Being the victim of this proc puts you into a 5second lockout period, during which time you cannot be affected by additional procs regardless of the source.

So it's not only all your weapons, but those of your teammates as well."

... to mean that, regardless of source (ie, ANY and ALL weapons as well as ANY and ALL opposing players/NPC's) NO other additional procs can affect you.

I can understand confusion here. I lean more towards your explanation as surely to god no Dev would put an immunity to all procs (even if for only 5seconds) as a by-product of being proc'd, would they? It's just that he could have made it Crystalline Entity clear by saying

"Being the victim of this proc puts you into a 5second lockout period, during which time you cannot be affected by additional ELACHI procs regardless of the source.

So it's not only all your ELACHI weapons, but those of your teammates as well."

khayuung

drowrulesupreme wrote: »

I've got to say, Virus, that the Borticus quote you gave does still seem ambiguous. I could read it as you have, and that would be fine, but I could also read it (without changing any words)...

"Being the victim of this proc puts you into a 5second lockout period, during which time you cannot be affected by additional procs regardless of the source.

So it's not only all your weapons, but those of your teammates as well."

... to mean that, regardless of source (ie, ANY and ALL weapons as well as ANY and ALL opposing players/NPC's) NO other additional procs can affect you.

I can understand confusion here. I lean more towards your explanation as surely to god no Dev would put an immunity to all procs (even if for only 5seconds) as a by-product of being proc'd, would they? It's just that he could have made it Crystalline Entity clear by saying

"Being the victim of this proc puts you into a 5second lockout period, during which time you cannot be affected by additional ELACHI procs regardless of the source.

So it's not only all your ELACHI weapons, but those of your teammates as well."

Considering I saw Romulan Plasma and Elachi Immunity debuffs at once, I think the Elachi weapon immunity only applies to other Elachi weapons and therefore my plasma could land.

A fortunate circumstance I would not have noticed had I have enough credits to buy a full set of Elachi...

I wasted 3 elachi cannons... but good thing I didn't buy turrets!! My god who on earth was selling those things for 800k?!

lucho80

Not all dual proc weapons in this game have disruptors as one of them and not all have a 2.5% chance. There are 10% proc chance tetryon weapons from one of the episodes (which I've read are bugged and in fact give a .1% chance) and hybrid polaron/tetryon weapons from "Boldly They Rode". I like the polarized disruptors on a ship with high flow capacitors and the leech console.

virusdancer

khayuung wrote: »

Ah, that helps. All the dual procs are in fact a normal disruptor proc and another proc on top of that. However, a nanite proc is a different proc altogether, even has a different +dam debuff value. Based on your experience I'd theorize that I would see polaron and plasma procs stacking up, but 1 normal disruptor debuff.

Based on this though: http://imgur.com/a/S3lWA

The KDF proc is in fact 2 procs so theoretically only the shield debuff will apply while the disruptor debuff gets overwritten.

It would be nice if someone could test this out, I'm a little short on credits as my kerrat farming have been bad lately...

Polarized Disruptor: 2.5% -Power & 2.5% -Damage Resistance
Plasma-Disruptor Hybrid: 2.5% Plasma DoT & 2.5% -Damage Resistance
Nanite Disruptor: 2.5% +Bleed & -Damage Resistance

Thing is, even though the Pol-Dis and Pla-Dis list 2x 2.5% procs...they both always appear.

I've asked, but never saw an answer in regard to it...but do they work as:

2x 2.5% rolls to apply both procs
1x 2.5% roll to apply both procs

Basically, should they read like the Nanite Disruptors so they state:

Polarized Disruptor: 2.5% -Power & -Damage Resistance
Plasma-Disruptor Hybrid: 2.5% Plasma DoT & -Damage Resistance

Which is why with the Elite Fleet Disruptors which state 2.5% -Shield Damage Reduction & 2.5% -Damage Resistance; I've assumed (but have not been able to test) that they work like the Pol-Dis and Pla-Dis. Thus the question about one or two rolls comes into play...and...they would likely stack with the other dual proc weapons.

That would be supported by the Romulan Plasma as well, with their 2.5% Plasma DoT & 2.5% -Damage Resistance...both are applied at the same time.

z3ndor99

Sorry guys if i panicked anyone thanks virus for the clarification and good point drowrule, sorry guys.

drowrulesupreme

No worries, z3ndor, I had to read it twice to make sure before I typed anything

z3ndor99

Which i didn't ( derp ).

virusdancer

z3ndor99 wrote: »

Which i didn't ( derp ).

No derp at all...like drow said, that could easily be read any sort of ways. The sigh wasn't to you...I'll edit my post to clear that up.

z3ndor99

Hey that's ok virus just need to read and absorb info before i type! Anyway disruptors ( nanite, romulan and the rest ) are my main choice for my rommie.

markhawkman

khayuung wrote: »

Considering I saw Romulan Plasma and Elachi Immunity debuffs at once, I think the Elachi weapon immunity only applies to other Elachi weapons and therefore my plasma could land.

AFAIK that's what Bort meant. IIRC, He drew a comparison with the way the Phaser subsystem offline proc works.

lianthelia

z3ndor99 wrote: »

Yeah there was a thread the other day about the elachi weapons, someone asked how the proc works and, borticus explained that's how they work ( yeah not great huh ).

Makes my Idea of just using the single crescent cannon with elite disruptors even better.

borticuscryptic

Yeah, let's just clear this up so everyone's absolutely certain...

Elachi Procs only provide a 5-second lockout for other Elachi weapon procs. They have no effect on Plasma, Phaser, Tetryon, or anything else.

Phasers work the same way - being hit with a Phaser proc makes you immune to additional procs from Phasers for 5 seconds. Other weapon type procs are unaffected.

As for the original question: All disruptor debuffs stack, if they are duration-based. But keep in mind that they are a Resistance Rating debuff, so diminishing returns apply. You won't always get the same value of debuff from your proc.

zeuxidemus001

borticuscryptic wrote: »

Yeah, let's just clear this up so everyone's absolutely certain...

Elachi Procs only provide a 5-second lockout for other Elachi weapon procs. They have no effect on Plasma, Phaser, Tetryon, or anything else.

Phasers work the same way - being hit with a Phaser proc makes you immune to additional procs from Phasers for 5 seconds. Other weapon type procs are unaffected.

As for the original question: All disruptor debuffs stack, if they are duration-based. But keep in mind that they are a Resistance Rating debuff, so diminishing returns apply. You won't always get the same value of debuff from your proc.

I've noticed how it works on an alt sci I have that uses a quad disruptor, elachi dhc, nanite disruptor dc and 3 polarized disruptor turrets on a kamarag with energy siphon build.

rinkster

borticuscryptic wrote: »

Yeah, let's just clear this up so everyone's absolutely certain...

Elachi Procs only provide a 5-second lockout for other Elachi weapon procs. They have no effect on Plasma, Phaser, Tetryon, or anything else.

Phasers work the same way - being hit with a Phaser proc makes you immune to additional procs from Phasers for 5 seconds. Other weapon type procs are unaffected.

As for the original question: All disruptor debuffs stack, if they are duration-based. But keep in mind that they are a Resistance Rating debuff, so diminishing returns apply. You won't always get the same value of debuff from your proc.

Thanks for the prompt clarification.

And please sing the Benny Hill tune to Taco for me.

virusdancer

borticuscryptic wrote: »

As for the original question: All disruptor debuffs stack, if they are duration-based. But keep in mind that they are a Resistance Rating debuff, so diminishing returns apply. You won't always get the same value of debuff from your proc.

Isn't it the inverse of that, though? Increasing returns rather than diminishing returns?

Doesn't the new DR/DRR affect subsequent debuffs?

(fictitious numbers)

Base DRR of 40 and DR of 28.3%
Hit by a -10 DRR debuff...resisted...-7.17 DRR debuff applied.
New DRR of 32.83 and DR of 24.5%
Hit by a -10 DRR debuff...resisted...-7.55 DRR debuff applied.
New DRR of 25.28 and DR of 20.1%
Hit by a -10 DRR debuff...resisted...-7.99 DRR debuff applied.
New DRR of 17.29 and DR of 14.7%

The first debuff reducing DR by 3.8%...
The second debuff reducing DR by 4.4%...
The third debuff reducing the DR by 5.4%...

So when one considers all the possible DR debuffs...it could get pretty heinous? It's tough, because we've only got the positive DRR/DRM formula. So can't really tell what happens to the damage - is it a case of ignoring the negative and treating it as a buff to damage?

Like the DRR of 40 above being DR of 28.3%...would a DRR of -40 be +28.3% damage instead of -28.3% damage? Thus maintaining diminishing returns? Or is it something else entirely?

If so, would that also apply to the DRR debuffs? That at a certain point, the stacked debuffs would no longer be resisted...but actually buffed?

borticuscryptic

virusdancer wrote: »

Isn't it the inverse of that, though? Increasing returns rather than diminishing returns?

Doesn't the new DR/DRR affect subsequent debuffs?

(MATH)

This is partially right.

The fact that it ... well, for lack of a better term (and lack of coffee allowing me to think of one), anti-diminishes? That part is accurate.

If you apply a -10 DRR to a target that has 100 DRR, the effects are less noticed than they are on a target that only has 10 DRR. Because it diminishes upwards, only.

But that also means that, against that same target with 100 DRR, a second proc calculates to a larger effect than the first. The difference between 100 and 90 is less than the difference between 90 and 80. Again, because of the diminishing scale.

So, that much is right.

But we recently introduced a fix that made Disruptor Procs no longer affect themselves. So each subsequent proc no longer becomes more powerful than the previous one in terms of base magnitude. The amount of -DRR applied with each proc should be uniform now.

Oh... I'm not sure if that change has gone live yet, now that I think about it.

virusdancer

Here's an example of what I meant about DRR going negative.

[Combat (Self)] Your Destabilized Plasma Torpedo deals 113031 (51321) Kinetic Damage to Tactical Cube.

That's ~220% damage...because of stacked debuffs.

The (X) number's within that typical range for the listed damage of 54.7k for the Beach Ball.

heero139

I've been looking around forever and have never been able to find any concrete information about the behavior of negative damage resistance. Is it possible we could get some sort of description of how the diminishing returns curve applies when damage resistance is below zero?