What facts? All you've shown us here is that you and a bunch of other guys have no clue how to do HSE. And I've done HSE with a PuG today, and as usually I didn't die even once and random guys where getting instavaped by Torp Spreads most of the time. Does that mean that HSE is broken? Not at all. And you can call me whatever you want. The fact is I can do HSE w/o a problem and you need to cry on forums because it's to hard for you. L2P or avoid HSE. Can't be simpler than that.
DJ; dude; you seriously have no clue.
Myself and wolfpack have completed HOSE several times; successfully with all optionals gotten; Yes you can complete HOSE with little difficulty.
However; the issue is that if you don't take down the probe ships fast enough; they do start their 100% accurate lances; and that can get nasty very quickly; and cloaked ships do get hit; as well as on the spawn and upwards of 25km away from the probe ships as well.
You can complete HOSE without experiencing any of this; but you have to be very fast about it.
I have been hit with Lance when Cloaked. I have seen people getting Lanced before they can get into weapons range. 1 hit kills that you can't avoid is stupid it should never ever happen. Make it so Lance has a specific firing arc not a firing arc of any direction which they have now. When your not in their firing arc you should then have to worry about Torpedo Spread that will kill people unless they use brace for impact or other hull resistance power like polarize hull.
Not every team is made up of ships that have Aux to Battery that can kill both ships so quickly that people aren't getting lanced. The missions should be difficult in a different way then it currently is.
However; the issue is that if you don't take down the probe ships fast enough; they do start their 100% accurate lances; and that can get nasty very quickly; and cloaked ships do get hit; as well as on the spawn and upwards of 25km away from the probe ships as well.
I remember having a very similar discussion a while ago - it was when the respawn timers were introduced in ESTFS. They were designed to prevent players from just using the "shoot, die, respawn, shoot, die, ad infinitum" "strategy". Has it occured to you that not being able to zerg it to death(or it being difficult) is main difficulty of HSE?
I have been hit with Lance when Cloaked. I have seen people getting Lanced before they can get into weapons range. 1 hit kills that you can't avoid is stupid it should never ever happen. Make it so Lance has a specific firing arc not a firing arc of any direction which they have now. When your not in their firing arc you should then have to worry about Torpedo Spread that will kill people unless they use brace for impact or other hull resistance power like polarize hull.
Not every team is made up of ships that have Aux to Battery that can kill both ships so quickly that people aren't getting lanced. The missions should be difficult in a different way then it currently is.
I've already said it twice, I shall say it three times: you either kill unimatrices before they can fire back, or you can just deal your damage while surviving Torp Spreads.
STAYING WITHIN "UNDER THE GUNS" BUFF RANGE WILL PREVENT THE UNIMATRICES FROM TARGETING YOU WITH LANCES.
I saw the date stamp for when the video was posted, yes. That doesn't prove that the mission itself took place on that date.
I don't doubt that you aced HOSE before it was broken, but as it stands, at the beginning of this week at least (don't know if it received attention in the last patch), those unimatrix ships were one-hit KO'ing players at the spawn point - you know, quite some distance from the unimatrix ships themselves and certainly WAY outside the player's weapons-range; the 'under the guns' buff didn't work - players were being one-shotted regardless of where they were - under the ships, by the queen - numerous times in numerous instances, the team were one-shot killed REGARDLESS of whether we were hanging around by the queen or not.
But I know that you'll continue to ignore these facts in favour of e-peen waving, so I'll leave it there.
Wow, you really think the video is fake, or done before it was broken? I can assure you, we did that run 1 week ago. Just ask anyone on the DPS-5000, DPS-11000, or Kirks_Protege channels if that was real or not. It was a live feed and now you are calling some of the best (no, the best) pve'rs in the game, liars. Stunning. Were you even watching the dps meter in that vid? Ryan was ganking 50k dps for a long stretch during the cube section. Look I don't have to defend myself or any of those players on these forums. A simple search of our record speed runs or NWS runs will show you just how whiney you really are.
The only thing broken about this game is the end game content is entirely too easy--as in we are bored to hell with it.
Right - so because an organised premade can ace it, you maintain the opinion that it's not broken? You really have been blinded by your own e-peen waving.
I'll repeat what I said one last time - the majority of people playing HOSE will do so in a PuG - just to emphasise, not some hero premade with the [self possessed] best players in the game, THE MAJORITY OF INSTANCES WILL BE PUGS. It's ironic really, you've pretty invalidated your own argument with your boastful remarks about how uber you and your friends are - as I said in my last post, which you haven't bothered reading, the bug is really more an issue for PuGs.
The bug, as many others have noted, seems to occur if both unimatrix ships are not dealt with in a timeframe of approximately 90 seconds. MOST PuG's don't manage to do it in that timeframe. I've been with a few that did, but most of the time your average PuG will NOT achieve this.
And THAT is when the bug kicks in. The issues have already been described - you can deny it all you want, and you may not have seen them, but they exist.
So instead of e-peen waving about how fantastic your premade is, and how you are too good for STO, PLEASE try joining a PuG or three; play HOSE with a group of players who will not have 5000000 DPS, because if those uni ships are not killed within said timeframe, you'll suddenly find yourself experiencing what us supposed 'lesser' players have experienced when the bug kicks in.
It really isn't that difficult, Reyan. I'm in a roleplaying Fleet, and we decided to queue with a team of four. Only two of us did over 3,000 DPS. 5,650, 4,500, 2,900, 1,800, and 900 (the public player in a Scimitar). We were able to complete Hive Onslaught Elite without the Lance bugging out.
If you find yourself in a team that can't kill them quick enough and they start lancing their is problems a lot with the lance. Been hit wile cloaked. People getting hit before they get in weapons range. L2P does not cut it not every TEAM has enough TEAM DPS to kill them so bloody quickly. A TEAM that can't should not face what they do. Make it harder in other ways.
Jeez, @reyan01 you know that you play MMO and it means that you do 'raids' as a team, organized team, not as 5 individuals doing same mission at the same time. So yes STF's (all, not only Hive) should be almost unbeatable for PUGs. You don't need 10k DPS to do it if you and your teammates know how/when/what to do and help each other.
Jeez, @reyan01 you know that you play MMO and it means that you do 'raids' as a team, organized team, not as 5 individuals doing same mission at the same time. So yes STF's (all, not only Hive) should be almost unbeatable for PUGs. You don't need 10k DPS to do it if you and your teammates know how/when/what to do and help each other.
While I agree that endgame content, aka elite STFs in STO, should be hard, and random groups with clueless players shouldn't be able to complete them without problems - I would never ever compare STFs with a proper raid.
Hell, it's even less content than one normal dungeon. It's basically one boss encounter with some trash. So let's not exaggerate. It's a grindfest. One completion is nothing.
Anyway, I'm puzzled as to how many players here find it difficult to acknowledge a problem when there is one - even if they are not affected.
A bug is a bug. It doesn't matter if you encounter it or not. Bugs are there to be fixed.
Lances hitting cloaked ships is a bug. Lances hitting outside their range is a bug. Etc.
If someone really and seriously wants to object this, he should be ignored and treated as the ignorant troll that he is.
Regarding the 'challenge' - creating or supporting artificial challenges that consist of not fixing defects is about as stupid as it gets.
If your group is fast enough, it's no additional challenge. If it's not, the additional challenge is disproportionate. Where's the middle ground? I rather get the impression some people like to feel elitist. Which is rather pathetic tbh.
There are enough ways to make STFs more challenging. Blatant bugs shouldn't be among them.
Apart from that this game surely doesn't need anymore incentives to min-max dps, fly escorts and kill fast. Yeah, even if you did it with carriers and a dread, most players will try to solve the 'kill unimatrixes before they bug' task with escorts and other dps oriented ships. Tough luck for anything else.
Imho STFs need more content, more duration and more tasks for specific roles. The amount of coordination and communication required for this endgame content is laughable.
To make this (creating/balancing) process possible, I think the devs should consider slashing most bonuses in half and get rid of massive stacking. Otherwise they'll find it difficult finding a middle ground for PvE or achieving balance in PvP with this min-max fest.
Anyway, I'm puzzled as to how many players here find it difficult to acknowledge a problem when there is one - even if they are not affected.
A bug is a bug. It doesn't matter if you encounter it or not. Bugs are there to be fixed.
QFT.
Watch out, the Cryptic-Can-Do-No-Wrong fanbois will crucify you for speaking such truth!
Still broken, coming up on 6 months since LoR. It is pretty sad.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Still broken, Lances now fire on you while within 5K of the queen, and both unimatrix' TRIBBLE out unending probes while waiting to respawn. you have a field of probes you cant get thru and then the lancing begins. This doesnt count the bajillion plasma charges that spam you constantly.
Hive? I tried that once, happy that I did, probably will never do it again.
You know why everyone runs infected conduit? Because it's fun, it's quick, it will most likely NOT frustrate you like Hive does.
I'd be more willing if it was overhauled, but both space and ground are way too ehhhhhh more me. I spend more time pulling my own hair out of my head in frustration that killing borgs.
Agreed that hive on normal is way too dependant on dps. If you don't take down one of the unimatrix ships on the first attempt, the mission is a bust. However, it is possible to survive 1 lance. 2 is impossible. My galaxy retro can handle being hit by 1. The biggest problem I think is the number of probes that spawn, and the fact that, even once you're within 5k of the queens octahedron, you still get lanced. I can understand elite being this hard, but not normal.
And yeah, I've had the questionable pleasure of experiencing those lance one-shot kills in Hive Elite. At some point we just gave up. It was hilarious for a while, and we laughed a lot, each time a ship just went 'poof'. But that's about it. Gets old, gets very annoying. And suddenly those lance attacks hit like every time.
Then there's also Donatra in Khitomer Vortex Elite, who now sometimes fires the Thalaron Weapon without chargeup time. One time she came out of cloak and within one second wiped out our whole team. That was fun! Not.
This. Once you start reaching those minute long respawn timers in hive, that's it. You're getting lanced every time you try to dive back in. That's it. There's no way around it. And of course if the lance doesn't get you, the plasma bolt will.
As for Donatra, I too have been bushwhacked by this insta-kill uncloaking. Funny when it happens once in a while. Also, she seems to randomize her cloaking time for each run. Sometimes she's out there for minutes at a time, and others only a few seconds.
Comments
DJ; dude; you seriously have no clue.
Myself and wolfpack have completed HOSE several times; successfully with all optionals gotten; Yes you can complete HOSE with little difficulty.
However; the issue is that if you don't take down the probe ships fast enough; they do start their 100% accurate lances; and that can get nasty very quickly; and cloaked ships do get hit; as well as on the spawn and upwards of 25km away from the probe ships as well.
You can complete HOSE without experiencing any of this; but you have to be very fast about it.
Not every team is made up of ships that have Aux to Battery that can kill both ships so quickly that people aren't getting lanced. The missions should be difficult in a different way then it currently is.
I remember having a very similar discussion a while ago - it was when the respawn timers were introduced in ESTFS. They were designed to prevent players from just using the "shoot, die, respawn, shoot, die, ad infinitum" "strategy". Has it occured to you that not being able to zerg it to death(or it being difficult) is main difficulty of HSE?
I've already said it twice, I shall say it three times: you either kill unimatrices before they can fire back, or you can just deal your damage while surviving Torp Spreads.
STAYING WITHIN "UNDER THE GUNS" BUFF RANGE WILL PREVENT THE UNIMATRICES FROM TARGETING YOU WITH LANCES.
Wow, you really think the video is fake, or done before it was broken? I can assure you, we did that run 1 week ago. Just ask anyone on the DPS-5000, DPS-11000, or Kirks_Protege channels if that was real or not. It was a live feed and now you are calling some of the best (no, the best) pve'rs in the game, liars. Stunning. Were you even watching the dps meter in that vid? Ryan was ganking 50k dps for a long stretch during the cube section. Look I don't have to defend myself or any of those players on these forums. A simple search of our record speed runs or NWS runs will show you just how whiney you really are.
The only thing broken about this game is the end game content is entirely too easy--as in we are bored to hell with it.
DPS Channels / League Info (STO Forums)
It really isn't that difficult, Reyan. I'm in a roleplaying Fleet, and we decided to queue with a team of four. Only two of us did over 3,000 DPS. 5,650, 4,500, 2,900, 1,800, and 900 (the public player in a Scimitar). We were able to complete Hive Onslaught Elite without the Lance bugging out.
While I agree that endgame content, aka elite STFs in STO, should be hard, and random groups with clueless players shouldn't be able to complete them without problems - I would never ever compare STFs with a proper raid.
Hell, it's even less content than one normal dungeon. It's basically one boss encounter with some trash. So let's not exaggerate. It's a grindfest. One completion is nothing.
Anyway, I'm puzzled as to how many players here find it difficult to acknowledge a problem when there is one - even if they are not affected.
A bug is a bug. It doesn't matter if you encounter it or not. Bugs are there to be fixed.
Lances hitting cloaked ships is a bug. Lances hitting outside their range is a bug. Etc.
If someone really and seriously wants to object this, he should be ignored and treated as the ignorant troll that he is.
Regarding the 'challenge' - creating or supporting artificial challenges that consist of not fixing defects is about as stupid as it gets.
If your group is fast enough, it's no additional challenge. If it's not, the additional challenge is disproportionate. Where's the middle ground? I rather get the impression some people like to feel elitist. Which is rather pathetic tbh.
There are enough ways to make STFs more challenging. Blatant bugs shouldn't be among them.
Apart from that this game surely doesn't need anymore incentives to min-max dps, fly escorts and kill fast. Yeah, even if you did it with carriers and a dread, most players will try to solve the 'kill unimatrixes before they bug' task with escorts and other dps oriented ships. Tough luck for anything else.
Imho STFs need more content, more duration and more tasks for specific roles. The amount of coordination and communication required for this endgame content is laughable.
To make this (creating/balancing) process possible, I think the devs should consider slashing most bonuses in half and get rid of massive stacking. Otherwise they'll find it difficult finding a middle ground for PvE or achieving balance in PvP with this min-max fest.
QFT.
Watch out, the Cryptic-Can-Do-No-Wrong fanbois will crucify you for speaking such truth!
- Judge Aaron Satie
This is on normal sadly.....
You know why everyone runs infected conduit? Because it's fun, it's quick, it will most likely NOT frustrate you like Hive does.
I'd be more willing if it was overhauled, but both space and ground are way too ehhhhhh more me. I spend more time pulling my own hair out of my head in frustration that killing borgs.
I went in there expecting real content...my team tore through it like infected
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
This. Once you start reaching those minute long respawn timers in hive, that's it. You're getting lanced every time you try to dive back in. That's it. There's no way around it. And of course if the lance doesn't get you, the plasma bolt will.
As for Donatra, I too have been bushwhacked by this insta-kill uncloaking. Funny when it happens once in a while. Also, she seems to randomize her cloaking time for each run. Sometimes she's out there for minutes at a time, and others only a few seconds.