Out side of PvP it seems there is no role for science and Engineers.
To be fair, considering how loltastic PvE is these days it really doesn't make a significant difference as to which class you play. Sure, the tac can kill things a little faster but doing an STF in a minute less is not a significant difference if you consider that STFs were meant to give a bonus if you could finish them in less than 10 minutes, and we're finishing them in 4 or less as a matter of course.
Are you mocking me?? My sci does have phys kit and I had 2 eng boffs - but those 2 push mechs and all the other voth were just wrecking me - both me and my boffs died - I had to respwan and go back to face them again. Why I bothered is purely a question as to my sanity.
To go along with that setup I suggested for Physicist:
Use an Engineer Bridge officer with the MACO Shield/Armor and the Synchronic Proton Distortion Prototype Assault Rifle (Ghostbuster gun from Spin the Wheel). For abilities, use Mine Barrier I, Shield Recharge II, Reroute Power to Shields II, and Equipment Diagnostics II
Use a Science Bridge officer with the full Omega Force set. For abilities, use Hypospray Dylovene I, Medical Tricorder II, Vascular Regenerator II, and Nanite Health Monitor I.
I've seen Grav Well 3 brought up (and running a Fed Sci and a KDF Sci as well as a Fed Eng)...
Engineers are far from useless in PVE. I remember pulling 2nd Place in the Gorn Minefield action in a Cruiser surrounded by Escorts. EWP and a high Particle Generator Skill are your friend as well as Aux3Batt2, EPtW1/2/3, and FAW2. I prefer Fabrication Specialist for Ground combat...Quantum Mortars, Phaser Turrets, and Drones really make mopping up <insert NPC enemy here> fun! Medical Generators are because we are complete jerks and like keeping our teams alive in the field. :P
As for Science...no one has brought up the Gravimetric Science DOffs that cause other Grav Wells to spawn. It is really funny watching some ships (and fighters are always the first to pop) go boom when 3 Grav Wells are in play in the right area to nail your target to the wells. Anything that survives that will have a good portion of the Hull Points stripped.
Engineers are still competent in all content it's just a matter of how to play them, they can keep up with tacticals in a prolonged fight (which they have the power to force) and with the abilities given to them they bring more versatility to the table as well (for example giving EPS power transfer to an ally to boost their power levels for whatever reason)
As for sci, there is nothing more fun than tanking 1 shot kills (See Crystal entity elite and Donatra) in a ship with only 37k hull Plus they debuff targets for the FAW spammers :rolleyes: and group them together for escorts or, shock and horror, kill them themselves! :eek:
I've seen Grav Well 3 brought up (and running a Fed Sci and a KDF Sci as well as a Fed Eng)...
Engineers are far from useless in PVE. I remember pulling 2nd Place in the Gorn Minefield action in a Cruiser surrounded by Escorts. EWP and a high Particle Generator Skill are your friend as well as Aux3Batt2, EPtW1/2/3, and FAW2. I prefer Fabrication Specialist for Ground combat...Quantum Mortars, Phaser Turrets, and Drones really make mopping up <insert NPC enemy here> fun! Medical Generators are because we are complete jerks and like keeping our teams alive in the field. :P
As for Science...no one has brought up the Gravimetric Science DOffs that cause other Grav Wells to spawn. It is really funny watching some ships (and fighters are always the first to pop) go boom when 3 Grav Wells are in play in the right area to nail your target to the wells. Anything that survives that will have a good portion of the Hull Points stripped.
Actually, my KDF sci in her Mirror Vo'Quv has a grav Sci doff slotted, and quite frequently, I get "bonus" wells. Always fun to watch enemy ships go through a spin cycle....
And my FedEng, the rare times anymore that I play stuff like SB24, or Gorn Minefield, almost always takes first, regardless of whatever ships and captain types are there with me. Even some STF's, based on the loot I've gotten out of the final drop, I'd guess I was either 2nd or 1st quite frequently.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Engineers are still competent in all content it's just a matter of how to play them, they can keep up with tacticals in a prolonged fight (which they have the power to force) and with the abilities given to them they bring more versatility to the table as well (for example giving EPS power transfer to an ally to boost their power levels for whatever reason)
As for sci, there is nothing more fun than tanking 1 shot kills (See Crystal entity elite and Donatra) in a ship with only 37k hull Plus they debuff targets for the FAW spammers :rolleyes: and group them together for escorts or, shock and horror, kill them themselves! :eek:
As a sci main, what skill are you using to survive these 1-hit kills?
Well I almost never post any rants - almost all threads of mine are pro cryptic in some way - I guess I am just getting frustrated with my main sci toons on the ground - I use them for space and space PvP - I can't afford to have any traits and as min skills as allowed in ground. That is something that is a huge problem now that cryptic wants you to try their ground stuff - you can be severely gimped on the ground if you are max spec'd for space.
I don't know why the game decided to spawn 2 push mechs - 2 spec ops - 4 regulars and several turrents on me while I was trying to solo a capture point - at the same time!! Perhaps my tac or engineer might not have faired any better.
Well I almost never post any rants - almost all threads of mine are pro cryptic in some way - I guess I am just getting frustrated with my main sci toons on the ground - I use them for space and space PvP - I can't afford to have any traits and as min skills as allowed in ground. That is something that is a huge problem now that cryptic wants you to try their ground stuff - you can be severely gimped on the ground if you are max spec'd for space.
If possible, I'd go with all defensive ground passives in the reputation system, it will help significantly. For a minimal science ground skill build I do 6 in Medic, 6 in Weapons Proficiency, 3 in PS Generator, 5 in Scientist, 5 in Willpower, 3 in Combat armor, and 6 in Particle Physics.
As a sci main, what skill are you using to survive these 1-hit kills?
Polarise hull with sensor scan (doffed), scattering field, Hazard emitters (optional depending on shield quality, MACO or better don't need it), Transfer shield strength, emergency power to shields is a big one as well and science fleet (though it is best to run Tac team to fill any resulting holes in your shields :P) It's also best to run at least 2 neutroniums.
I'm guessing you've never tried to do ground STFs with an all-tactical team. While that's certainly doable, a couple of good scis and an engineer make those missions a lot easier.
As sci and eng on the ground, I look for kits that contain a mix of offensive and defensive abilities. Right now, for me, that's Equipment Technician and Romulan Xenobiologist, respectively.
The classes are fine. The game boiling down into a dps race is what makes them feel less up to par compared to tactical. But make no mistake, the content in the game is easy enough that any scrub can complete it regardless of their specialty, tactical just let's you clear it faster and more efficiently.
The classes are fine. The game boiling down into a dps race is what makes them feel less up to par compared to tactical. But make no mistake, the content in the game is easy enough that any scrub can complete it regardless of their specialty, tactical just let's you clear it faster and more efficiently.
Yes I know - it was just a frustrating day. For example my reman sci toon - not a PvP torp boat toon - which is specialized - but a regular reman sci flying a beam scimitar comes in 1st place in CCE every single time she does it. She also does not die in any elite stf - so I was using a bit of hyperbole saying they are useless - they are perfectly capable of handling any of the games content. It's funny when I do KDF only team content there is still lots of cross healing and support going on between players that have never met - but fed side - almost never see it any more - shame.
I wish they would allow us to have 10 space traits AND 10 ground traits - other than forcing players to specialise their toons - there is no reason not to allow it. I can have all space or ground already - so separating them and allowing me 10 more ground traits is not going to make me more op then anyone else - it's not like they effect each other. And since they keep adding New traits - there are more than enough to fill up 10 of each and then some.
I play primarily on Tactical characters but when I do load up my Engineers they tend to rip up the ground maps thanks to their ability to build bunkers.
My Science character is pretty damn good at turning the lights out on enemy ships.
For pvp sci >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever the other scrub classes without subnuke are
Lets face it once you pass 30/40k dps cc becomes pointless fast as everything dies before they even have a chance to realize they've been cc'd.
That said any class can do any pve content and still vastly outperform most of the player base because most people don't care about min maxing. They fly what's cool and as long as they can finish the content they're happy.
For pvp sci >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever the other scrub classes without subnuke are
Lets face it once you pass 30/40k dps cc becomes pointless fast as everything dies before they even have a chance to realize they've been cc'd.
That said any class can do any pve content and still vastly outperform most of the player base because most people don't care about min maxing. They fly what's cool and as long as they can finish the content they're happy.
I partially agree. That said, if PvE is your thing (and for most people it is the only thing) then why gimp yourself. I love science myself. My Vesta and Bajoran Science captain is my favorite. But she is spec-ed for PvP and NWS. If all I wanted was PvE I would never have bothered. Very little other content needs it.
CC - just fly a plasma torpedo. Dots will kill it quick
Dysen - engineer to tank bleed through damage or just Kirk it with ROFLstomping DPS
Rom - DPS ... super easy
STF - DPS is the only thing that matters. GW is useful but totally available to tac
I want to know what "space" content actually needs science. On the other hand, there isn't a single PvE end game mission that doesn't need at least 2 or 3 tacs doing good damage to prevent it from dragging out. Without good DPS, you will have a hard time defending the kang and for sure will miss the optional for example.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Well, the handful of science abilities that strip the recrystalize buff on the crystaline entity is a nice touch for sci.
Mainly what it came down to for me in space PvE was: would I rather play tac and be reduced to macroing all my abilities to one button and pressing space repeatedly...or play sci and 'tactically' (har har) use sci magic at somewhat decisive moments.
In every single MMO, you will eventually be able to do older content with less and less tanks and healers until you can eventually do it with all DPS. As this goes on, you will eventually be able to solo the content with a single DPSer.
I find it odd that you never encountered this phenomena. Are you new to MMOs... or any HP-based game in general?
Sorry but you missed my point completely. Of course old content becomes deprecated. If you are running a dungeon that is 3 year old with gear that is several tiers above the requirements you will probably destroy it.
Likewise, if you are 10 levels above the content the same goes * 10 (lol okay numbers made up but you get my point). But that's not what we are talking about. Has a tank been needed for any content in this game ... in years ... ever? Certainly, since I have been here I have never seen tanks or healers be required. All content including STF, New Romulas, Nukara, Dyson.
Sure heals helped occasionally (very rare unless pug is horrid) ... but tanking was pointless since there is no such thing as aggro-drop or aggro-gain ... except for the new cruiser command. The latter still fails if you have an escort that can put out 30K or more DPS (much more burst probably).
Trinity is an old mechanic ... and it has its problems. I am NOT(!!!) arguing that it be brought into this game. But since it doesn't exist then there is no real need for a dedicated healer or tank. I guess CC is useful at times ... but tacs can manage it with boff powers and doffs.
Case in point, the TBR I with Voth doff (reverses TBR) + average aux power is a good substitute for GW1.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Well, the handful of science abilities that strip the recrystalize buff on the crystaline entity is a nice touch for sci.
Mainly what it came down to for me in space PvE was: would I rather play tac and be reduced to macroing all my abilities to one button and pressing space repeatedly...or play sci and 'tactically' (har har) use sci magic at somewhat decisive moments.
Science ability is yes. But tachyon 1 (ensign science power) does it. Pretty much all ships have this available. I actually would equip it on my BoP (in lieu of TB) months ago when puggs went wrong. Now most puggs completely decimate it ... and there is usually at least one person doing it.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Sorry but you missed my point completely. Of course old content becomes deprecated. If you are running a dungeon that is 3 year old with gear that is several tiers above the requirements you will probably destroy it.
Likewise, if you are 10 levels above the content the same goes * 10 (lol okay numbers made up but you get my point). But that's not what we are talking about. Has a tank been needed for any content in this game ... in years ... ever? Certainly, since I have been here I have never seen tanks or healers be required. All content including STF, New Romulas, Nukara, Dyson.
Sure heals helped occasionally (very rare unless pug is horrid) ... but tanking was pointless since there is no such thing as aggro-drop or aggro-gain ... except for the new cruiser command. The latter still fails if you have an escort that can put out 30K or more DPS (much more burst probably).
Trinity is an old mechanic ... and it has its problems. I am NOT(!!!) arguing that it be brought into this game. But since it doesn't exist then there is no real need for a dedicated healer or tank. I guess CC is useful at times ... but tacs can manage it with boff powers and doffs.
Case in point, the TBR I with Voth doff (reverses TBR) + average aux power is a good substitute for GW1.
You've been missing my point since your first reply to me.
Old content doesn't become deprecated just because its old. Old content becomes deprecated because the player's survivability meets or exceeds the survivability threshold.
Survivability threshold is not a raw number. Being able to dodge something that another player can't means your survivability threshold is higher than the other player.
You've been missing my point since your first reply to me.
Old content doesn't become deprecated just because its old. Old content becomes deprecated because the player's survivability meets or exceeds the survivability threshold.
Survivability threshold is not a raw number. Being able to dodge something that another player can't means your survivability threshold is higher than the other player.
Sorry but it sounds like you don't understand MMOs. Why do you think that survivability threshold was affected? Well it was because of progression. The shiny gear or other means of stats pumping. The dev can always enhance content by adding more damage, hp, debuffs, new mechanics and tune it for the highest level players with the best gear. To keep you grinding they give you the chance to get even better gear and thus the wheel keeps turning.
Also dodge or avoidance is only one aspect. You have mitigation and healing and those do get adjusted over time.
This happens all the time in every other MMO except here. I suspect they do buff content here too ... But usually it is only in the simplest of ways ... Like more hp or more insta jib weapons and spamming of ships. For the latter, recall what they. Did with CC. In general it is tuned for casual players and to make you grind more.
Fundamentally though, there is no raid content here. For further proof see all comments on this forum about how easy the content is. If you are refuting this point then frankly I don't think you play other trinity based MMOs.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Sorry but it sounds like you don't understand MMOs. Why do you think that survivability threshold was affected? Well it was because of progression. The shiny gear or other means of stats pumping. The dev can always enhance content by adding more damage, hp, debuffs, new mechanics and tune it for the highest level players with the best gear. To keep you grinding they give you the chance to get even better gear and thus the wheel keeps turning.
Also dodge or avoidance is only one aspect. You have mitigation and healing and those do get adjusted over time.
This happens all the time in every other MMO except here. I suspect they do buff content here too ... But usually it is only in the simplest of ways ... Like more hp or more insta jib weapons and spamming of ships. For the latter, recall what they. Did with CC. In general it is tuned for casual players and to make you grind more.
Fundamentally though, there is no raid content here. For further proof see all comments on this forum about how easy the content is. If you are refuting this point then frankly I don't think you play other trinity based MMOs.
I'm not even sure what you're rambling on about anymore.
The question is, "does this happen in other mmos?"
The answer is yes because it is the fundamental nature of HP-based mechanics.
You only need enough survivability to meet a certain threshold. DPS does not have such a threshold.
Polarise hull with sensor scan (doffed), scattering field, Hazard emitters (optional depending on shield quality, MACO or better don't need it), Transfer shield strength, emergency power to shields is a big one as well and science fleet (though it is best to run Tac team to fill any resulting holes in your shields :P) It's also best to run at least 2 neutroniums.
Yep. Sci Captains in space or ground can do quite a bit of things but they feel more "indirect." Not like Tac where it screams, "U DOEZ MOAR DAMAGEZ & CRITZ"
Tacs are virtually useless if they can't deal enough damage on the ground, as they have very few powers beyond already increasing their damage output. If a Tac's powers aren't letting him deal enough damage to (for example) stop that Borg drone reaching the relay, then activating them again is going to do nothing.
On the other hand, the versatility of Engs and Scis is very useful. Need to remodulate your weapon? Forcefield Dome (Eng) or Stasis Field (Sci) to halt the drone while you do. Need to kill multiple drones before they reach the relay? Mine Barrier/Transphasic Bomb (Eng) or Exothermic Induction (Sci) can do that. Tacs may have Grenades, but the drones are moving out of the impact zone. Need to stop that ETD from one-shotting the entire party? Weapons Malfunction (Eng) or Neural Neutralizer (Sci). All a Tac can do is keep piling on the damage and hope the ETD dies before he does.
My main is a Tac. Solo, it would take maybe 20s to down an ETD, all powers would be activated, and a hypo used. On one of my Eng toons, solo, I could down an ETD in about 5s with placement of a Mine Barrier at his feet and a Support Drone to draw fire and provide additional firepower, and maybe using a Cover Shield.
Tacs have one way of causing damage. Any decent Eng or Sci has at least two.
Ok, try this. For your Science officer use the Adapted MACO Pulsewave and Armor with the Dyson Shield and the Dyson Experimental Rifle. Next, slot a Physicist Science kit on your character. In your device slots, put 60x Large Hypo, the Shard of Possibilities, Frosted Boots, and 60x Large Power Cell. Also, slot a gambling device, assign the button to tray 3/row 1, give it a keybind, and then deslot it. You will be able to double click it in inventory, use the gambling device, and then deslot it.
For duty officers use 3x Geologist (Cooldown reduction on Exothermic Induction Field/Hyperonic Radiation), 1x Biochemist (-10 All Damage Resistance with any Science Debuff), and 1x Explosive Expert (Voth - Explosive Projectiles with Exothermic Induction Field).
Try it out, you will deal damage capable of rivaling a Tactical officer on the Ground. I can also give you an engineering build that can do the same thing for Engineers on the ground.
I'm not even sure what you're rambling on about anymore.
The question is, "does this happen in other mmos?"
The answer is yes because it is the fundamental nature of HP-based mechanics.
You only need enough survivability to meet a certain threshold. DPS does not have such a threshold.
And I said it does happen but you are confusing it with natural progression. Obviously you haven't really played other trinity MMO. So it is pointless to keep arguing it. Go download one and get to the top tier raids and come back to this thread when you have some more experiences.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Healers are absolutely necessary in other games ... cause they have this little thing called the trinity. Good luck trying to DPS race a new raid in WoW the way you can DPS race the latest Season's content here. That's why guilds are so vital in there and team work.
Honestly, this game caters to a different market altogether. It is the casual or solo players. Given that I would say the "ship" has long ago sailed on making science and engineers meaningfully useful in this game.
And yes ... you can argue that science is useful in this game ... because it can do some things like aoe damage and adds to team firepower via force multipliers (photonic fleet). But by that argument a skittles boat that procs frequently would also also be useful.
Would you rather have the skittles boat or a FAW spam-bot Scimitar that can help you finish STF in 4 minutes. /Case_closed
When the game first started engineers and science were far more valued than they are today but I still play them. I remember I hated Tactical in the beginning because all I did was die constantly to the Klingons in PvP unless being helped out by others. So there is some truth to the OP but useless wouldn't be my thoughts... You can still find some healing going on out there just not like it used to be.
I love my engineers especially on the ground and same with science toons. I think it would be nice to bring the trinity balance back to the game so people will need to do more teamwork but anytime anything is made more difficult the masses cry foul so I doubt we will see this. This game doesn't really feel MMO it seems more RPG in the sense that most of what is done as the center focus in this game is on your own. The MMO piece is more of an elective function which is why it appeals more to casuals and the MMO parts of the game are made so easy.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
And I said it does happen but you are confusing it with natural progression. Obviously you haven't really played other trinity MMO. So it is pointless to keep arguing it. Go download one and get to the top tier raids and come back to this thread when you have some more experiences.
This has absolutely nothing to do with "natural progression". It doesn't matter if an encounter is on the bleeding edge of progression content, or if the encounter is old. The most efficient way to beat any HP-based encounter is to figure out how to reach the survivability threshold with the least amount of resources used, and then spend the remainder of resources on damage.
And I've already been in a top 25 worldwide guild in WoW during vanilla and its second expansion. Wouldn't want to do it again considering the time commitment.
Science and engineering still have a place in the game. With my playstyle, I consider some engineering and science abilities to be "must have", in space or on ground.
Tacs are virtually useless if they can't deal enough damage on the ground, as they have very few powers beyond already increasing their damage output. If a Tac's powers aren't letting him deal enough damage to (for example) stop that Borg drone reaching the relay, then activating them again is going to do nothing.
On the other hand, the versatility of Engs and Scis is very useful. Need to remodulate your weapon? Forcefield Dome (Eng) or Stasis Field (Sci) to halt the drone while you do. Need to kill multiple drones before they reach the relay? Mine Barrier/Transphasic Bomb (Eng) or Exothermic Induction (Sci) can do that. Tacs may have Grenades, but the drones are moving out of the impact zone. Need to stop that ETD from one-shotting the entire party? Weapons Malfunction (Eng) or Neural Neutralizer (Sci). All a Tac can do is keep piling on the damage and hope the ETD dies before he does.
My main is a Tac. Solo, it would take maybe 20s to down an ETD, all powers would be activated, and a hypo used. On one of my Eng toons, solo, I could down an ETD in about 5s with placement of a Mine Barrier at his feet and a Support Drone to draw fire and provide additional firepower, and maybe using a Cover Shield.
Tacs have one way of causing damage. Any decent Eng or Sci has at least two.
Really this whole thread evolved - or devolved if you like - from my poor reman sci toon - fully spec'd for space - being steam rolled by voth spam In the ground battlezone. That is another gripe of mine - 10 people standing afk In the zone cause me to be hit with mass waves of super mechs and spec ops when I try to cap a point solo?
That is another problem with cryptics design - they add new ground stuff - but if your primarily a space player you would be foolish not to specialize everything into space. So now you are gimped on the ground. Why can't we max both space and ground traits? Why are our skills forcing us to specialize in space or ground? It does not make much sense to me - especially if cryptic wants us to do both types of content.
What would be nice, is if they still kept the encounters reasonably difficult (ie scaled them), along with the difficulty "slider" actually meaning something. Make people run their ships, especially, but even for ground, their characters, smarter, instead of just dumbing it down, to where it can be stomped easily, by even the "avg Joe" with little to no skill or knowledge, much less gearing.
But instead, we get this "dps-race", and dumbing down of stuff, and then people tend to scream (even new people at times), that the content is too easy.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Comments
To be fair, considering how loltastic PvE is these days it really doesn't make a significant difference as to which class you play. Sure, the tac can kill things a little faster but doing an STF in a minute less is not a significant difference if you consider that STFs were meant to give a bonus if you could finish them in less than 10 minutes, and we're finishing them in 4 or less as a matter of course.
To go along with that setup I suggested for Physicist:
Use an Engineer Bridge officer with the MACO Shield/Armor and the Synchronic Proton Distortion Prototype Assault Rifle (Ghostbuster gun from Spin the Wheel). For abilities, use Mine Barrier I, Shield Recharge II, Reroute Power to Shields II, and Equipment Diagnostics II
Use a Science Bridge officer with the full Omega Force set. For abilities, use Hypospray Dylovene I, Medical Tricorder II, Vascular Regenerator II, and Nanite Health Monitor I.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Engineers are far from useless in PVE. I remember pulling 2nd Place in the Gorn Minefield action in a Cruiser surrounded by Escorts. EWP and a high Particle Generator Skill are your friend as well as Aux3Batt2, EPtW1/2/3, and FAW2. I prefer Fabrication Specialist for Ground combat...Quantum Mortars, Phaser Turrets, and Drones really make mopping up <insert NPC enemy here> fun! Medical Generators are because we are complete jerks and like keeping our teams alive in the field. :P
As for Science...no one has brought up the Gravimetric Science DOffs that cause other Grav Wells to spawn. It is really funny watching some ships (and fighters are always the first to pop) go boom when 3 Grav Wells are in play in the right area to nail your target to the wells. Anything that survives that will have a good portion of the Hull Points stripped.
As for sci, there is nothing more fun than tanking 1 shot kills (See Crystal entity elite and Donatra) in a ship with only 37k hull
Actually, my KDF sci in her Mirror Vo'Quv has a grav Sci doff slotted, and quite frequently, I get "bonus" wells. Always fun to watch enemy ships go through a spin cycle....
And my FedEng, the rare times anymore that I play stuff like SB24, or Gorn Minefield, almost always takes first, regardless of whatever ships and captain types are there with me. Even some STF's, based on the loot I've gotten out of the final drop, I'd guess I was either 2nd or 1st quite frequently.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
As a sci main, what skill are you using to survive these 1-hit kills?
I don't know why the game decided to spawn 2 push mechs - 2 spec ops - 4 regulars and several turrents on me while I was trying to solo a capture point - at the same time!! Perhaps my tac or engineer might not have faired any better.
If possible, I'd go with all defensive ground passives in the reputation system, it will help significantly. For a minimal science ground skill build I do 6 in Medic, 6 in Weapons Proficiency, 3 in PS Generator, 5 in Scientist, 5 in Willpower, 3 in Combat armor, and 6 in Particle Physics.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Polarise hull with sensor scan (doffed), scattering field, Hazard emitters (optional depending on shield quality, MACO or better don't need it), Transfer shield strength, emergency power to shields is a big one as well and science fleet (though it is best to run Tac team to fill any resulting holes in your shields :P) It's also best to run at least 2 neutroniums.
As sci and eng on the ground, I look for kits that contain a mix of offensive and defensive abilities. Right now, for me, that's Equipment Technician and Romulan Xenobiologist, respectively.
Yes I know - it was just a frustrating day. For example my reman sci toon - not a PvP torp boat toon - which is specialized - but a regular reman sci flying a beam scimitar comes in 1st place in CCE every single time she does it. She also does not die in any elite stf - so I was using a bit of hyperbole saying they are useless - they are perfectly capable of handling any of the games content. It's funny when I do KDF only team content there is still lots of cross healing and support going on between players that have never met - but fed side - almost never see it any more - shame.
I wish they would allow us to have 10 space traits AND 10 ground traits - other than forcing players to specialise their toons - there is no reason not to allow it. I can have all space or ground already - so separating them and allowing me 10 more ground traits is not going to make me more op then anyone else - it's not like they effect each other. And since they keep adding New traits - there are more than enough to fill up 10 of each and then some.
My Science character is pretty damn good at turning the lights out on enemy ships.
For pvp sci >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever the other scrub classes without subnuke are
Lets face it once you pass 30/40k dps cc becomes pointless fast as everything dies before they even have a chance to realize they've been cc'd.
That said any class can do any pve content and still vastly outperform most of the player base because most people don't care about min maxing. They fly what's cool and as long as they can finish the content they're happy.
I partially agree. That said, if PvE is your thing (and for most people it is the only thing) then why gimp yourself. I love science myself. My Vesta and Bajoran Science captain is my favorite. But she is spec-ed for PvP and NWS. If all I wanted was PvE I would never have bothered. Very little other content needs it.
CC - just fly a plasma torpedo. Dots will kill it quick
Dysen - engineer to tank bleed through damage or just Kirk it with ROFLstomping DPS
Rom - DPS ... super easy
STF - DPS is the only thing that matters. GW is useful but totally available to tac
I want to know what "space" content actually needs science. On the other hand, there isn't a single PvE end game mission that doesn't need at least 2 or 3 tacs doing good damage to prevent it from dragging out. Without good DPS, you will have a hard time defending the kang and for sure will miss the optional for example.
- Judge Aaron Satie
Mainly what it came down to for me in space PvE was: would I rather play tac and be reduced to macroing all my abilities to one button and pressing space repeatedly...or play sci and 'tactically' (har har) use sci magic at somewhat decisive moments.
Sorry but you missed my point completely. Of course old content becomes deprecated. If you are running a dungeon that is 3 year old with gear that is several tiers above the requirements you will probably destroy it.
Likewise, if you are 10 levels above the content the same goes * 10 (lol okay numbers made up but you get my point). But that's not what we are talking about. Has a tank been needed for any content in this game ... in years ... ever? Certainly, since I have been here I have never seen tanks or healers be required. All content including STF, New Romulas, Nukara, Dyson.
Sure heals helped occasionally (very rare unless pug is horrid) ... but tanking was pointless since there is no such thing as aggro-drop or aggro-gain ... except for the new cruiser command. The latter still fails if you have an escort that can put out 30K or more DPS (much more burst probably).
Trinity is an old mechanic ... and it has its problems. I am NOT(!!!) arguing that it be brought into this game. But since it doesn't exist then there is no real need for a dedicated healer or tank. I guess CC is useful at times ... but tacs can manage it with boff powers and doffs.
Case in point, the TBR I with Voth doff (reverses TBR) + average aux power is a good substitute for GW1.
- Judge Aaron Satie
Science ability is yes. But tachyon 1 (ensign science power) does it. Pretty much all ships have this available. I actually would equip it on my BoP (in lieu of TB) months ago when puggs went wrong. Now most puggs completely decimate it ... and there is usually at least one person doing it.
- Judge Aaron Satie
You've been missing my point since your first reply to me.
Old content doesn't become deprecated just because its old. Old content becomes deprecated because the player's survivability meets or exceeds the survivability threshold.
Survivability threshold is not a raw number. Being able to dodge something that another player can't means your survivability threshold is higher than the other player.
Sorry but it sounds like you don't understand MMOs. Why do you think that survivability threshold was affected? Well it was because of progression. The shiny gear or other means of stats pumping. The dev can always enhance content by adding more damage, hp, debuffs, new mechanics and tune it for the highest level players with the best gear. To keep you grinding they give you the chance to get even better gear and thus the wheel keeps turning.
Also dodge or avoidance is only one aspect. You have mitigation and healing and those do get adjusted over time.
This happens all the time in every other MMO except here. I suspect they do buff content here too ... But usually it is only in the simplest of ways ... Like more hp or more insta jib weapons and spamming of ships. For the latter, recall what they. Did with CC. In general it is tuned for casual players and to make you grind more.
Fundamentally though, there is no raid content here. For further proof see all comments on this forum about how easy the content is. If you are refuting this point then frankly I don't think you play other trinity based MMOs.
- Judge Aaron Satie
I'm not even sure what you're rambling on about anymore.
The question is, "does this happen in other mmos?"
The answer is yes because it is the fundamental nature of HP-based mechanics.
You only need enough survivability to meet a certain threshold. DPS does not have such a threshold.
Yep. Sci Captains in space or ground can do quite a bit of things but they feel more "indirect." Not like Tac where it screams, "U DOEZ MOAR DAMAGEZ & CRITZ"
On the other hand, the versatility of Engs and Scis is very useful. Need to remodulate your weapon? Forcefield Dome (Eng) or Stasis Field (Sci) to halt the drone while you do. Need to kill multiple drones before they reach the relay? Mine Barrier/Transphasic Bomb (Eng) or Exothermic Induction (Sci) can do that. Tacs may have Grenades, but the drones are moving out of the impact zone. Need to stop that ETD from one-shotting the entire party? Weapons Malfunction (Eng) or Neural Neutralizer (Sci). All a Tac can do is keep piling on the damage and hope the ETD dies before he does.
My main is a Tac. Solo, it would take maybe 20s to down an ETD, all powers would be activated, and a hypo used. On one of my Eng toons, solo, I could down an ETD in about 5s with placement of a Mine Barrier at his feet and a Support Drone to draw fire and provide additional firepower, and maybe using a Cover Shield.
Tacs have one way of causing damage. Any decent Eng or Sci has at least two.
Please post your ground engineer build.
And I said it does happen but you are confusing it with natural progression. Obviously you haven't really played other trinity MMO. So it is pointless to keep arguing it. Go download one and get to the top tier raids and come back to this thread when you have some more experiences.
- Judge Aaron Satie
When the game first started engineers and science were far more valued than they are today but I still play them. I remember I hated Tactical in the beginning because all I did was die constantly to the Klingons in PvP unless being helped out by others. So there is some truth to the OP but useless wouldn't be my thoughts... You can still find some healing going on out there just not like it used to be.
I love my engineers especially on the ground and same with science toons. I think it would be nice to bring the trinity balance back to the game so people will need to do more teamwork but anytime anything is made more difficult the masses cry foul so I doubt we will see this. This game doesn't really feel MMO it seems more RPG in the sense that most of what is done as the center focus in this game is on your own. The MMO piece is more of an elective function which is why it appeals more to casuals and the MMO parts of the game are made so easy.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
This has absolutely nothing to do with "natural progression". It doesn't matter if an encounter is on the bleeding edge of progression content, or if the encounter is old. The most efficient way to beat any HP-based encounter is to figure out how to reach the survivability threshold with the least amount of resources used, and then spend the remainder of resources on damage.
And I've already been in a top 25 worldwide guild in WoW during vanilla and its second expansion. Wouldn't want to do it again considering the time commitment.
But that is just me.
Really this whole thread evolved - or devolved if you like - from my poor reman sci toon - fully spec'd for space - being steam rolled by voth spam In the ground battlezone. That is another gripe of mine - 10 people standing afk In the zone cause me to be hit with mass waves of super mechs and spec ops when I try to cap a point solo?
That is another problem with cryptics design - they add new ground stuff - but if your primarily a space player you would be foolish not to specialize everything into space. So now you are gimped on the ground. Why can't we max both space and ground traits? Why are our skills forcing us to specialize in space or ground? It does not make much sense to me - especially if cryptic wants us to do both types of content.
But instead, we get this "dps-race", and dumbing down of stuff, and then people tend to scream (even new people at times), that the content is too easy.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"