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Why is the new Mogh KDF ship SOO BIG!!
gornstaractor
Member Posts: 8 Arc User
It come to my attention today that the kdf have been ripped off again 
. The new ship is 7 times larger than the fed version or the avenger and still has the same turn rate. This is going to make the ship a much bigger target in pvp and with a much bigger pivot point, it is a lot harder to turn and keep weapons on target if using cannons!! I like kdf but it seems they are so much disadvantaged in the game it is hard to truly compete and play pvp kling side. I think it is about time cryptic realizes the disadvantage klingons are put in this game and fixes it!!
. The new ship is 7 times larger than the fed version or the avenger and still has the same turn rate. This is going to make the ship a much bigger target in pvp and with a much bigger pivot point, it is a lot harder to turn and keep weapons on target if using cannons!! I like kdf but it seems they are so much disadvantaged in the game it is hard to truly compete and play pvp kling side. I think it is about time cryptic realizes the disadvantage klingons are put in this game and fixes it!! Post edited by gornstaractor#7412 on
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Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
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This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~BranFlakes
The ship is larger, but the size only comes into play when you are very close to other ships, and when calculating range. However, when you're in range of something, they are in range of you as well, except for a few NPCs.
As a result, the size of the ship does not put you at any disadvantage, except for maybe being able to see the ship somewhat easier from afar, or perhaps taking up a bit more screen space.
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R.I.P
^this
I also like the design of it. The entire backend is pretty much a Negh'var/Vor'cha setup, the neck is a nice a thick (what she said) and from the Bortasqu' and the front is what you'd expect from the earlier mentioned Negh'var and Vor'cha as well.
The only gripe I have about the looks is the neck could be a bit longer and the nacelles could be a bit shorter, so it looks more in-line to what you'd expect and looks a little less boxxy
Great ship though
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Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
Oh, so the Qin raptor isn't borked by having the pivot point of a cruiser, or some other ship several times its size? I guess it's just my imagination, then, when a Federation escort easily keeps out of my weapon arc because the nose of the ship is still trying to follow the target because the pivot point is, for some reason, somewhere behind the ship, rather than in the middle of it or w/e.
How about you stop pretending the problem doesn't exist, and fix it when it happens? How bloody hard can it be to change the pivot point on a ship?!
Yeah, I'm looking forward to trying out a Vor'cha/Tor'kaht sized battlecruiser than has 50 inertia (rather than the 30-35 inertia of other 'nimble' battlecruisers). That'll make things interesting.
We have investigated reports of this in the past, moving the pivot point of the ship backwards will do nothing for the functionality of the ship, it will only affect the visuals. The pivot point of the ship is in the primary hull, just below the mission pod, not at a point behind the ship.
I agree it does look a bit odd, namely when using turn rate enhancing powers, and it is certainly on the list of things to update. However, it is purely visual, and does not impact gameplay in any way, other than making things appear somewhat different compared to other ships, but pivot points don't affect firing arcs, plain and simple, the game does not work that way.
We could place the pivot point a mile behind the ship, and functionally, your ship will work the same way. Granted, the ship's art will be a mile further away from the camera, because the camera is locked to the pivot point of the ship, and the pivot point is always centered.
The arc overlay when mousing over a weapon isn't 100% accurate, so, keep that in mind as well.
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If you have a nimble target just off your nose moving laterally (sideways), you cannot simply turn to follow. All of a sudden you're sweeping sideways (ever so slightly) instead of following the target you're looping around past them to turn around to try to point at them again.
The pivot point makes a MASSIVE difference in tracking targets. If the pivot point were at the very TIP of the ship it would look funny but you'd almost never lose a target in front of you. You'd simply swing your butt out and not have to turn much. If the pivot point is at the very BACK of the ship, your weapons on the front may pass AROUND an enemy contact you're almost on top of, never bringing your weapons to bear.
It's an issue of angular momentum. And it IS an issue.
R.I.P
Say we've got the following...
<(f)
(p)
(a)>
Where (f) is the fore weapon hardpoints, (p) is the pivot point, and (a) is the aft weapon hardpoints...
At which point is the actual turn rate being applied as the number we view?
Is there a fourth point, (c) center - located between (f) and (p), where the turn is being applied and then a calculation made based on (p) relative to (c) which in the end results in the movement of (f) and (a) around (p)...?
Along the lines of...
<(f)
(c)--(p)--(a)>
...as an example?
http://i.imgur.com/3ijQxgs.jpg
In the image, there are three ships, with three different pivot points. The top row shows them aligned forward, the bottom three is the same ship as above, but rotated 30 degrees.
The Red dot indicates the pivot point, the black lines indicate a sample firing arc of ~45 degrees.
The camera always follows the red dot, and the red dot is the point in which firing arcs are calculated, it is not reliant on the placement of the ship itself, that has no actual function when it comes to firing arcs.
The ship appearing to swing around it's pivot point is purely visual, and does not affect your actual firing arc. It takes the same amount of time to turn the firing arc towards your target, turn rate is not affected by the pivot point, at all, it's entirely independant.
The middle and right examples are extreme, and the left is where the Qin's pivot point currently is.
Your ship could be completely invisible, and the Qin would work in an identical manner, changing its pivot point does nothing but move geometry around. If you can't keep a target in your firing arc as it is, you wont be able to if the pivot point is moved.
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Which technically means that if a pivot point is too far back, you actually get a slight advantage, because you can fire at the ship while you're "sort of" on top of it.
Can you please fix the Ambassador ship, its turning point is off center mass. Looks very strange when stationary and doing a 360 turn. Seems to pivot just before the pylons, after the impulse engines. Just overhead with your camera, put your mouse in the visual middle of the over all ship, and you'll see it's off. Very distracting, feels like my ship is on a stick being turned from the rear....
There is no advantage. Weapon hard points make no difference when it comes to pointing at your targets. In the example, if a small enemy ship was between the pivot point, and the hull of the ship, you would not be able to fire at it. But, that's not a problem, because every player ship's pivot point is encased within the collision capsule that surrounds the ship.
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The ship is perfect. Once again, when it comes to Klingon ships - Cryptic nailes it! I can only applaud on their design decisions regarding KDF ships. Well done Cryptic.
I'm also glad they follow the lore reasoning behind KDF ships. Klingons use the battlecruisers for invasions and conquest as much as they do for war and exploration. That's why it's big - it has to support a trained crew of 2000 warriors ready to conquer a world should the opportunity arise. Starfleet didn't commision the Avenger to conquer worlds, they comissioned it for space war and to defend the Federation. Therefore it's smaller since it doesn't need a complement of ground troops.
For reconnaissance and skirmishes Klingons have much smaller Birds of Prey and Raptors, but the battlecruisers are the backbone - they're big, bad and have it all.
The Mogh's size is perfect in my books. I was hoping for a bigger, beefier battlecruiser - like they said, a bulldog.
also, fleet tier 4 raptor when? :P