As Jesus would say: Thou hypocrite, first get gud; and then shalt thou see clearly to help thy brother get gud.
What works best for you may not work best for everyone else. The only real advice you should be giving here is an example of a few ways that work for players who perform on the highest level. Which, frankly, doesn't include you. And, seriously, "strafing is your sissies"? You write a guide that's supposed to maximize somebody's chances of success, and you tell them not to use every ability at their disposal? The real issue here isn't that strafing isn't useful, but that you haven't figured out a way to use it without diminishing your effectiveness in other areas.
In pvp, I'd occasionally dip into shooter mode to place an Exothermic Induction Field, drop a Distortion Field on myself to protect against cloakers, blind-firing a pulsewave where I know a cloaker is standing, etc. But, yeah, there's virtually no reason to use it even in PvP, and in PvE I wouldn't ever recommend it, even for skill-shotting kit powers.
Borg melee is a non-issue, if you're talking about STFs, even with a -100% dr debuff. Their plasma guns hit more than twice as hard.
If you're not doing serious competitive PvP, exchange gear is perfectly fine. Hell, I've done serious PvP and carried elite stfs in less than a million ec worth of exchange gear. It's not like this game's PvE is hard. Good exchange gear is way better than the Jem Hadar set, as far as such things go.
No, they don't.
That would be Pulsewaves at point blank range, followed by Compression pistols at medium range, followed by just spamming the primary on a full auto rifle (although HDBRs will beat them if you get an expose). Without exposes, I'm pretty sure even spamming the primary on a stun pistol or wide beam pistol will out-dps a hdbr. I'd recommend the HDBR over a full auto rifle or either of the other pistols, but that's for reasons unrelated to straight dps. Swords can beat everything for dps, but that's another issue.
Still good advice, though. HDBR or sniper is a nice gun to have because of the crowd control at long range and while your pulse is on cooldown.
Wide beam pistols are pointless. Swords generate their own exposes, and the exposes are the only point of a wide beam.
Nukara procs don't do enough damage to make a difference if you actually know what you're doing, so you might as well not bother. There are some nice romulan plasmas, but you can get better guns on the exchange if you have the ec.
Somebody's got some issues.
Why slam them at all?
For the most part it's a decent guide, and I'm glad people write stuff to help inform the community. Seriously though, chill. This game has a stupidly steep learning curve that level 1-50 does nothing to prepare you for. You've made it a few steps farther up the curve than most players. Good for you.
You're still enough of a noob to write a two page guide on ground combat without ever mentioning flank damage and cover... and you make multiple factual errors in the process. So you should tone it the hell down when complaining about others.
If you have trouble completing PvE content because other players aren't good enough, either find some fleetmates to help you or get good and carry your team by yourself.
"2. You probably won't agree with all/some of this guide.
I do not care. Post whatever you like. Maybe I'll even learn something new."
Need I say more?
I'm not about to tear you down. It's not how I do. Those who needed it, got something from this guide. Perhaps you didn't, either way, couch critic, I hope you have a pleasant day.
I guess, after reading 6 pages of replies, that people, mainly, have an issue with my preferred or listed weapon choices.
If you feel, strongly enough, that my guide would mislead a new person into making the wrong weapon choices, to post a 1 page rebuttal saying as such. This guide wasn't for you in the first place.
This guide is intended for people who are poor at ground. Not nitpickers. I give decent, well rounded information that will be true for most new-to-ground gamers. In this guide I give concrete reliable information for sub par ground gamers.
Unless you're politely pointing out an extreme negligence on my part, shut your face. I don't care how or why you don't like my guide. Don't read it. Heck, if you feel so strongly, write your own damn guide. (where I will NOT be greifing you)
"2. You probably won't agree with all/some of this guide.
I do not care. Post whatever you like. Maybe I'll even learn something new."
People just don't seem to read that one clause at the beginning. Oh well.
Ok, not a bad guide overall, but a few nitpicks for you.
Shooter mode is not bad at all in PvE. A player in practice with Shooter mode can outperform a player in RPG mode. RPG mode is ideal in PvP because players move more often than NPCs. Even then, Shooter mod has it's place in PvP, as it does not require line of sight to fire. It is important for players to have good control over both combat aspects. If you don't, you are gimping yourself significantly.
Exchange gear is not a bad option if you have a new character. Try to get a Personal Mobility Shield Mk XI [Cap] [Reg] (they drop from a very rare duty officer assignment). For armor, Polyalloy Weave Armor Mk XI [HP] [RegHP] [RegSH] is the best modifier. As for weapons, try to stay away from Polaron, the proc doesn't last very long and has very little effect in the long run. The Jem'hadar set isn't a bad choice, but the armor is a bit of a risk due to the lack of Physical damage resistance and a striking lack of a [HP] (bonus hit points) mod.
As for your weapon type choices...High Density Beam rifles are not the best DPS weapons in the game. Full Auto Rifles, especially the Omega Force Antiproton Autocarbine, will blow the High Density out of the water. A High Density Beam Rifle is basically a Split Beam Rifle that hits up to 3 targets in a straight line (they must be in a straight line to hit), rather than three targets anywhere in your weapon arc. Due to this, split beam rifles are superior to high density beam rifles.
Now I agree with your assessment on Assault Miniguns and Blast Assaults, the animation lock makes these weapons highly undesirable. Your comment on wide beam pistols is completely in left field however. Wide beam pistols at MK XII Very Rare sell for minimum price on the exchange for a reason, they are vendor trash. I'd go as far to say they are the worst weapons in the game.
Generally, you want a Split Beam Rifle, Full Auto Rifle (Omega Autocarbine), Sniper Rifle, Pulsewave Assault, or Compression Pistol for PvE. As above, you can get some use out of High Density Beam Rifles. The New Dyson Set Wide Beam Rifle/Sniper Rifle hybrid is a very nice weapon as well.
The last thing is your whole comment on running ahead. If the player knows what he is doing, then there is no reason he cannot venture ahead of the group to take out NPCs. This is especially true for Cure Ground Elite. When I'm in pug matches, nobody has Frosted Boots, thus I run ahead and fight without them. There are times when the group must stay together (Infected Ground Elite), but for the most part it is not an issue.
Other than that, I liked the guide overall. Thanks for putting the guide together.
I'd mostly agree to the guide with these modifications to it.
In STFs RPG mode is slow and clumsy, nothing changes, use shooter mode instead. In the battlezone or anything less predictable RPG mode is definitely more useful.
Weapons wise there are few guns that beat the omega force outside of an STF, its dps, set bonus and procs are pretty awesome. Inside an STF, its bonus is nice, but its an offhand weapon to a pulsewave or splitbeam at best. High density.. eh, that weapon sounds good in theory, until you use it and realize its middle of the pack. Not a fan of the sniper rifle myself.
I find most people "hate" ground combat, but these same people don't use abilities, aim, crouch or flank. In other words, ya, they suck and they just say the game play is bad. Ground ability icons are terrible, and its probably why most don't use the abilities. Setting them up in a sequence is your best bet to get the most out of them, though when swapping kits that gets all buggered.
I find that a lot of times, if i'm running with a group, i prefer to use the melee kit. Blasphemy, i know, but it allows me to get behind a group, and grab their attention and hold it giving everyone else the flanking bonus. It holds everyones aggro unless someone has added into the threat control skills. The last time i checked (which was before LoR) the sword was giving me less damage than the Leg sweep, so i was basically using the sniper rifle to get in close, then melee there on out. This is why my last question was about increasing my survivability, because that spread shot from the Tacs can be murderous at times.
One of the highest hits i've seen on it though was a dropkick (not flanking) crit for about 2098 against the T-Rex in the BattleGround. I'm really curious about the actual numbers though, and seeing what is a good point of reference for Ground Combat DPS. What should i be expecting from standard, secondary, and expose attacks numerically?
I agree though, that it is pretty nice being able to see a good thread going about Ground Combat.
Can we discuss Rep Ground traits and skill points?
I think I screwed up by going all offensive in my ground Rep, I'm an engineer and I can pump out DPS I also attract aggro and die a lot.. are there any suggestions for rep?.
Skills. I have more than the avg toon allocated to ground roughly 70k, but how important or effective is Combat Armor? is it worth ranking up or not ?
Trait wise I sacrificed some space traits to take Lucky, Soldier and Orbital Devastation...focusing on Crit % and severity. Would an Engineer better served with Resilient and Peak Health?
And does the OP's comment apply to the Voth Anitporotn Shocktrooper cannon? I'm finding it pretty decent on ground.. normally I run with an elite fleet split beam and either maco rifle.. or if I'm in my fleet gear a Adopted maco pulsewave.
Can we discuss Rep Ground traits and skill points?
I think I screwed up by going all offensive in my ground Rep, I'm an engineer and I can pump out DPS I also attract aggro and die a lot.. are there any suggestions for traits?.
Skills. I have more than the avg toon allocated to ground roughly 70k, but how important or effective is Combat Armor? is it worth ranking up or not ?
Trait wise I sacrificed some space traits to take Lucky, Soldier and Orbital Devastation...focusing on Crit % and severity. Would an Engineer better served with Resilient and Peak Health?
For Nukara and New Romulus, I always go all defensive passives on the ground. On Tier I Dyson and Omega, it all depends on the character. Both choices are quite valuable. Now Tier III, it's an easy choice, go defensive.
Playing an engineer, I'd suggest running the full MACO set for the shield heal. The enemy neutralization kit is quite useful in PvE, as it allows you to disable a target's weapons. Combat armor is worth the skill points, but you don't want more than 6 ranks. There is very little gain from pushing skills on the ground into the red zone. When working with engineers mainly specced for space, I typically set them up along these lines: http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=lowskillpointsengineergroundbuild_0
Your trait choices are good, Lucky and Soldier are both outstanding traits. However, I'd drop Orbital Devastation for Peak Health or Shield Harmonic Resonance. Resilient is not a good trait at the moment. The resistances from the trait makes very little difference in ground combat due to damage resistance diminishing returns.
I guess, after reading 6 pages of replies, that people, mainly, have an issue with my preferred or listed weapon choices.
If you feel, strongly enough, that my guide would mislead a new person into making the wrong weapon choices, to post a 1 page rebuttal saying as such. This guide wasn't for you in the first place.
This guide is intended for people who are poor at ground. Not nitpickers. I give decent, well rounded information that will be true for most new-to-ground gamers. In this guide I give concrete reliable information for sub par ground gamers.
Unless you're politely pointing out an extreme negligence on my part, shut your face. I don't care how or why you don't like my guide. Don't read it. Heck, if you feel so strongly, write your own damn guide. (where I will NOT be greifing you)
"2. You probably won't agree with all/some of this guide.
I do not care. Post whatever you like. Maybe I'll even learn something new."
People just don't seem to read that one clause at the beginning. Oh well.
With all due respect, when you post a thread called "Not a "nice" ground guide" and post information that is not just often subjective, it is factually and patently false, you can't get all defensively high-and-mighty. You posted information that you thought was true but often times was insufficient. You could have taken the route to make this a thread where people share ideas, but instead, you kinda get goofy when people point out things you missed.
When you post things like:
"Don't: Think that Exchange gear is "good enough" when you hit level 50."
And that "High Density Beam Rifles do the best Single Target DPS in the game."
and then later downthread about wide beam pistols:
"3. Is the only gun to have this single and multiple target versatility."
You aren't allowed to complain when people add things or do minor nitpicks. In fact, you even went back and edited/adjusted your initial post, even YOU believe some of what you said was false.
I'm not trying to diss you - in fact, i would seem this thread was generally positively receptive to your points - when they were correct or not just subjective nonsense like "Do NOT say "gg"" lolsrslywtf?
Your points in general are great, but they're about as obvious as "Do breathe air! Do NOT breathe water!!!" I know you went back and edited your post to add something to the effect about "This is nto meant to be a complete guide" or some such..but it's too late. To be honest, it's not a particularly useful guide because you miss out on the MOST IMPORTANT MECHANICS of GROUND WARFARE: Expose/Exploit and WEAPON MODIFIERS.
So: tl;dr _ don't get all mad that people comment on your "guide" when people are trying to help and in the final analysis, it's not particularly advanced.
Besides, it's not a "nice" guide, right? Don't expect the feedback to be, either.
Great guide, but some things are completely subjectives. Just for personal taste.
Hypos? u kidding right? i never need them. I barely find myself in situations that i need to regenerate my health points. The space in the device slot is more needed for other important stuff. Hypos are a waste LOL.
In the beginning i used to fill my device bar with food and hypos, but not anymore. Once u have learned how to fight in ground, hypos are just an option, an option you will discard because u will want more useful items in your device slot.
Great guide, but some things are completely subjectives. Just for personal taste.
Hypos? u kidding right? i never need them. I barely find myself in situations that i need to regenerate my health points. The space in the device slot is more needed for other important stuff. Hypos are a waste LOL.
In an attempt to pull the thread back on track, I have a "real" serious ground question that the OP as well as the RPs can maybe help me with.
When I'm in space combat and I target an enemy using the tab or X key, my screen rotates around to follow the enemy I am shooting at. When it comes to ground, the keys are different. Now, I know about the X and the C keys for target and crouch, as well as the Tab key for changing targets. However, when i'm in a ground combat location against Voth (for example) and those stupid swarmers come in, I can't seem to target and follow them like I would in space combat. Is there a secret to "following" in ground combat without having to click on screen and drag it?
Thanks for the help, in advance!
CM
"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science." - Edwin Hubble
Generally if I'm trying to keep a target sighted, I'll use the Aim (X). Which you should be doing as much as possible anyway. The only reason not to be aiming is if you need to move quickly, like if you find yourself in the middle of a load of artillery reticules, or need to spin around to find your next target. Aiming makes movement and manual turning slow, but your guy will spin on a dime to follow a target. Also, if you're using RPG mode, you don't need to be able to see your target to shoot it. I frequently shoot at V-Rexes while spinning the camera around behind to make sure no Voth are stealing particles.
I am still not fifty, so ignore me if you must, but isn't it strange to omit the aspect of melee combat from your guide? There are some great advantages to using melee v. opponents with good shields or borg. So why omit this aspect of the ground game rather than addressing it?
Thanks for telling me about aim, being in week 3 I did not know about this yet.
I like this guide for begginers but I just use mk XII MACO set plus hypos and all my enjeneer abilities to heal I can generally take 2 Lvl 50s in at once without dieing
In an attempt to pull the thread back on track, I have a "real" serious ground question that the OP as well as the RPs can maybe help me with.
When I'm in space combat and I target an enemy using the tab or X key, my screen rotates around to follow the enemy I am shooting at. When it comes to ground, the keys are different. Now, I know about the X and the C keys for target and crouch, as well as the Tab key for changing targets. However, when i'm in a ground combat location against Voth (for example) and those stupid swarmers come in, I can't seem to target and follow them like I would in space combat. Is there a secret to "following" in ground combat without having to click on screen and drag it?
I am still not fifty, so ignore me if you must, but isn't it strange to omit the aspect of melee combat from your guide? There are some great advantages to using melee v. opponents with good shields or borg. So why omit this aspect of the ground game rather than addressing it?
Thanks for telling me about aim, being in week 3 I did not know about this yet.
That's a good question.
First of all, this wasn't intended to be an advanced ground combat manual.
Second, it in no way shape or form covers ALL aspects of ground combat.
Lastly, honesty. I didn't put melee combat in this guide because every time I see someone trying to melee they either are doing it wrong. (with a Bat'Leth or Lirpa) or are doing it wrong (poorly timed lunges as stuns and not focusing on the right mobs) or are doing it wrong (with the wrong kit(s) on) or are doing it wrong (not knowing when to not melee) or are doing it wrong (using the wrong abilities at the wrong times/using no abilites).
First of all, this wasn't intended to be an advanced ground combat manual.
Second, it in no way shape or form covers ALL aspects of ground combat.
Lastly, honesty. I didn't put melee combat in this guide because every time I see someone trying to melee they either are doing it wrong. (with a Bat'Leth or Lirpa) or are doing it wrong (poorly timed lunges as stuns and not focusing on the right mobs) or are doing it wrong (with the wrong kit(s) on) or are doing it wrong (not knowing when to not melee) or are doing it wrong (using the wrong abilities at the wrong times/using no abilites).
Hope that cleared that up for you.
First, my highest level toon is 28, so I wouldn't consider myself to be advanced.
Second, there are several mobs that are melee, and melee functionality is a major component of the ground game. Knowing how melee weapons work helps you understand how and when to use them, and how to counter them.
Third, the bat'leth and lirpa are choices that can be effective if done properly, target choice is important for both melee and ranged and not addressed either, kits for melee are different than kits for ranged and need to be discussed, etc.
I would have understood if you came out and said that you didn't include melee because you do not know how to do melee properly, but the way you replied seemed to show a lack of understanding of this component of the game. I would welcome someone offering some information on this half of the ground game for you to incorporate it into the guide, but please do not come off as an expert when you aren't.
First, my highest level toon is 28, so I wouldn't consider myself to be advanced.
Second, there are several mobs that are melee, and melee functionality is a major component of the ground game. Knowing how melee weapons work helps you understand how and when to use them, and how to counter them.
Third, the bat'leth and lirpa are choices that can be effective if done properly, target choice is important for both melee and ranged and not addressed either, kits for melee are different than kits for ranged and need to be discussed, etc.
I would have understood if you came out and said that you didn't include melee because you do not know how to do melee properly, but the way you replied seemed to show a lack of understanding of this component of the game. I would welcome someone offering some information on this half of the ground game for you to incorporate it into the guide, but please do not come off as an expert when you aren't.
I am not the OP but I would say Melee is questionable most of the time. It is very powerful for those it works against but most enemies can be turned into dust so fast with ranged weapons that Melee is inefficient against them. Most of the rest will run away from Melee making it useless.
The Bat'leth and Lirpa are also horrible Melee weapons because all anything has to do to avoid 100% of their damage is take a single step and most things will. The ONLY time these are useful is when you are mobbed by melee attackers which is rare.
The Swords, especially the Shattering Harmonics Crystal Sword, are a fair bit better with their auto-lunge feature that can keep enemies being hit regardless of if they run but even these are often too hard to get close with to make it worthwhile. Also once you get that close you often leave yourself open to flanking attacks. Additionally there are also enemies that cannot be hit with Melee like Swarmers and those stupid Shielding Exosuits.
So when it comes right down to it, besides the Borg and a few choice enemies, most of the opponents on the ground are much better dealt with via energy weapons and grenades than melee. This means that its usefulness is rather marginal. Also Sweeping Strikes and Lunge/Pounce/Bite are superior in damage output than any Melee weapon further reducing the need for them.
I am not the OP but I would say Melee is questionable most of the time. It is very powerful for those it works against but most enemies can be turned into dust so fast with ranged weapons that Melee is inefficient against them. Most of the rest will run away from Melee making it useless.
The Bat'leth and Lirpa are also horrible Melee weapons because all anything has to do to avoid 100% of their damage is take a single step and most things will. The ONLY time these are useful is when you are mobbed by melee attackers which is rare.
The Swords, especially the Shattering Harmonics Crystal Sword, are a fair bit better with their auto-lunge feature that can keep enemies being hit regardless of if they run but even these are often too hard to get close with to make it worthwhile. Also once you get that close you often leave yourself open to flanking attacks. Additionally there are also enemies that cannot be hit with Melee like Swarmers and those stupid Shielding Exosuits.
So when it comes right down to it, besides the Borg and a few choice enemies, most of the opponents on the ground are much better dealt with via energy weapons and grenades than melee. This means that its usefulness is rather marginal. Also Sweeping Strikes and Lunge/Pounce/Bite are superior in damage output than any Melee weapon further reducing the need for them.
Again, I cannot speak to the endgame content. I have found the BatLirp to be useful in ship halls, but not in rooms or rockside. Yes, melee does require more blocking (the stage term) and movement than shooting. And there are obviously situations wherein melee cannot be used at all. However, it seems that, while the damage of melee may need to be addressed, the ability to circumvent shields is under-appreciated, and melee is more useful than many realize.
I may change my tune by the time I get to fifty, but at this point I find myself being more effective and enjoying the ground content more with my secondary toon, melee, than my primary toon, ranged.
I will not post any further on this topic in this thread, at least until I am leveled up, but I do think many in the community overlook this aspect of the game.
Since it went ignored last time i asked, what is a good base damage? What are some numbers to compare to for comparison to my current DPS, both melee and ranged?
Since it went ignored last time i asked, what is a good base damage? What are some numbers to compare to for comparison to my current DPS, both melee and ranged?
"DPS" on the ground is irrelevant. A combat parser won't help either (and has limited usefulness in space). Even in Ground PvP, it's not about damage per second, it's about timing your abilities to maximize your effectiveness. Damage per second is just your total match damage divided by the length of the engagement, it's not helpful at all.
Everyone on the ground does about the same amount of damage with a weapon. There is a 15% increase in damage between someone with a 0 in weapons proficiency and someone with a 129 in weapons proficiency. If you are a tactical officer, you can get an additional 11% increase from putting 9 ranks in combat specialist.
Instead of thinking about about how much damage per second your weapon is doing, think about how effective your weapon is at taking down a specific target. Pulsewaves, Split Beam Rifles, and Compression Pistols excel at fast target neutralization. Sniper Rifles are good for range. There are also some specialized weapons that work very well.
Outside of that, you have your abilities. The important thing is to use buffs, but don't overdo it. If you are trying to kill a Borg drone, all you will really need is Suppressing Fire and a few pulsewave shots. Now, if the intended target is a Heavy Tactical Drone, you will want to use Target Optics, Strike Team, Fire on my Mark, Ambush, and Battle Strategies with a flanking archwave shot to quickly dispatch it.
I hope that's answered your question. If you need clarification in an area, I'd be more than happy to help.
"DPS" on the ground is irrelevant. A combat parser won't help either (and has limited usefulness in space). Even in Ground PvP, it's not about damage per second, it's about timing your abilities to maximize your effectiveness. Damage per second is just your total match damage divided by the length of the engagement, it's not helpful at all.
Everyone on the ground does about the same amount of damage with a weapon. There is a 15% increase in damage between someone with a 0 in weapons proficiency and someone with a 129 in weapons proficiency. If you are a tactical officer, you can get an additional 11% increase from putting 9 ranks in combat specialist.
Instead of thinking about about how much damage per second your weapon is doing, think about how effective your weapon is at taking down a specific target. Pulsewaves, Split Beam Rifles, and Compression Pistols excel at fast target neutralization. Sniper Rifles are good for range. There are also some specialized weapons that work very well.
Outside of that, you have your abilities. The important thing is to use buffs, but don't overdo it. If you are trying to kill a Borg drone, all you will really need is Suppressing Fire and a few pulsewave shots. Now, if the intended target is a Heavy Tactical Drone, you will want to use Target Optics, Strike Team, Fire on my Mark, Ambush, and Battle Strategies with a flanking archwave shot to quickly dispatch it.
I hope that's answered your question. If you need clarification in an area, I'd be more than happy to help.
It's actually some great advice, but sadly it didn't really answer my question. As it stands, i'm doing pretty well in the area of damage, but i'm wanting to know what a base output is, to judge where i'm at as well as how i can improve. As i currently am, my main is out performing his energy weapons with his melee, and i've added a few things for survivability as well, but i'm still wondering how much room there is for improvement. A lot of times, Even though your advice would be spectacular, i try to melee groups as it grabs and holds aggro, letting me turn the group so everyone is flanking but me.
Still though, thank you for the response, as that is some rediculously good advice i will have to try, especially against the Heavy tacs.
Very helpful guide and very well put together. I'm glad someone finally took the time to do this!
"Being a troll myself, I classify this malcontent as a Type-2 Oblivious Troll. My reasons for coming to this conclusion are: The annoying colored text he deploys, the contradictory threads he creates, the excessive whining and foot stamping, the amusement factor of his threads, and the apparent lack of realization that he is in fact a troll, like me, and is not the heart broken, victimized, player, he sees himself as."
There are far more useful items than hypos. However, hypos are always necessary, even if you DON'T need them. They're there to keep you alive in those cases when you are dying. You won't care when that isn't happening.
There are too many items for me to slot in 4 device slots right now.
Of them, shard of possibilities is a must-have. It's a mini away team for non-tacs. It makes you UNtargettable for 1-2 seconds, which is just enough for the thing killing you to retarget something else and give you breathing space.
One of my toons has a backstory heavy with "The Second Wave" and is based on the JH set with polaron weapons in space, and can use the nanocell recipies that add bleeding over time, kinetic damage, or shield penetration to your shots for 5 minutes after use on certain weapons. That adds up to a lot of useful options you can tack onto your weapons damage. I keep a small stack of these nanocells ready for use. Other toons can make use of weapons cells which will boost damage quite significantly for a number of seconds. By running these nonstop you'll enhance your total damage quite a lot. However it takes up a slot.
My KDF have a fighting targ that can attack enemies, but it also takes up a device slot.
Then there's shield repairs.
Counting hypos as the 4th, that often leaves me with no free slots, and picking and choosing. I can't run tribbles anymore because I don't have room. Those tribble buffs are quite nice and I miss them. They can add heal over time, damage resistance, hold resistances, enhanced damage to enemies, tons of useful stuff that I wish I could use.
If you're able to afford it you can get shield+heal hypos. If you're really rich you can get TEAM shield+heal hypos, though you might break the bank. That saves you a slot by putting 2 heals into 1 device, but you run out of them faster depending on the situations.
There are others, too... Let's not forget the borg remodulator or fractal remodulator or the pre-modulated consumable packs. The stupid borg adapt way too fast even with STF 3pc set bonus that remodulates "instantly" (it's not instant, and it has a long cooldown, I can fire 1 weapon, borg adapt, fire second, they adapt, and still have to wait 1-2 seconds before I can remodulate to fire again). If you run fleet gear or if you don't have a full STF set yet, you NEED one of these devices, which means ditching another useful option.
There are reinforcement calls from fleet and rep stores that will beam in helpers for a short time (not useful IMO) and the devidian cane (that can be a really helpful heal when you're being killed). There are disposable shroud generators and plenty of other things. I won't list them all.
There are far more useful items than hypos. However, hypos are always necessary, even if you DON'T need them. They're there to keep you alive in those cases when you are dying. You won't care when that isn't happening.
There are too many items for me to slot in 4 device slots right now.
Of them, shard of possibilities is a must-have. It's a mini away team for non-tacs. It makes you UNtargettable for 1-2 seconds, which is just enough for the thing killing you to retarget something else and give you breathing space.
One of my toons has a backstory heavy with "The Second Wave" and is based on the JH set with polaron weapons in space, and can use the nanocell recipies that add bleeding over time, kinetic damage, or shield penetration to your shots for 5 minutes after use on certain weapons. That adds up to a lot of useful options you can tack onto your weapons damage. I keep a small stack of these nanocells ready for use. Other toons can make use of weapons cells which will boost damage quite significantly for a number of seconds. By running these nonstop you'll enhance your total damage quite a lot. However it takes up a slot.
My KDF have a fighting targ that can attack enemies, but it also takes up a device slot.
Then there's shield repairs.
Counting hypos as the 4th, that often leaves me with no free slots, and picking and choosing. I can't run tribbles anymore because I don't have room. Those tribble buffs are quite nice and I miss them. They can add heal over time, damage resistance, hold resistances, enhanced damage to enemies, tons of useful stuff that I wish I could use.
If you're able to afford it you can get shield+heal hypos. If you're really rich you can get TEAM shield+heal hypos, though you might break the bank. That saves you a slot by putting 2 heals into 1 device, but you run out of them faster depending on the situations.
There are others, too... Let's not forget the borg remodulator or fractal remodulator or the pre-modulated consumable packs. The stupid borg adapt way too fast even with STF 3pc set bonus that remodulates "instantly" (it's not instant, and it has a long cooldown, I can fire 1 weapon, borg adapt, fire second, they adapt, and still have to wait 1-2 seconds before I can remodulate to fire again). If you run fleet gear or if you don't have a full STF set yet, you NEED one of these devices, which means ditching another useful option.
There are reinforcement calls from fleet and rep stores that will beam in helpers for a short time (not useful IMO) and the devidian cane (that can be a really helpful heal when you're being killed). There are disposable shroud generators and plenty of other things. I won't list them all.
And again, i dunno if in pvp things are different, but in pve i NEVER used hypos so far. Sometimes i even dont use any device at all. Its true that sometimes you can get radiation poisoned and your health goes down even if you have full shields. But if you have an extra shield debuff skill, that is not a problem. Actually, its like i have 3 shields. The Dyson reactive shield + the maco shield capacitor (or something like that, cant remember lol, the skill u get when u equip de maco set). I mean, there was a time that i used hypos really often, but not anymore once i reached lvl 50. I prefer to carry a battle drone, for example or something like that instead hypos.. honestly. Or even a trible. But tribbles are problematic...
I was gone for a while and when I came back they had revamped the early trainer missions, and these missions were all available, even though I was at lvl 50. I like the storyline content (I wish Cryptic would do more like The Second Wave, rather than the TRIBBLE dyson zone), so I went to play it all. It's a white-quality combat pet that you get for one of the early missions. You go to the ice prison (rura penthe?) and afterwards one of the rewards is this device. Not sure if it was automatic or if you had to choose that from your options.
At first I just stored it, then I used it a couple times, and figured "why not?" and just run it normally now.
I was gone for a while and when I came back they had revamped the early trainer missions, and these missions were all available, even though I was at lvl 50. I like the storyline content (I wish Cryptic would do more like The Second Wave, rather than the TRIBBLE dyson zone), so I went to play it all. It's a white-quality combat pet that you get for one of the early missions. You go to the ice prison (rura penthe?) and afterwards one of the rewards is this device. Not sure if it was automatic or if you had to choose that from your options.
At first I just stored it, then I used it a couple times, and figured "why not?" and just run it normally now.
Oh, you are talking about the jackal mastiff, not a targ. Yeah I have the jackal mastiff, but was hoping to get a Targ Handler Kit lol.
It's actually some great advice, but sadly it didn't really answer my question. As it stands, i'm doing pretty well in the area of damage, but i'm wanting to know what a base output is, to judge where i'm at as well as how i can improve.
Still though, thank you for the response, as that is some rediculously good advice i will have to try, especially against the Heavy tacs.
Comments
"2. You probably won't agree with all/some of this guide.
I do not care. Post whatever you like. Maybe I'll even learn something new."
Need I say more?
I'm not about to tear you down. It's not how I do. Those who needed it, got something from this guide. Perhaps you didn't, either way, couch critic, I hope you have a pleasant day.
If you feel, strongly enough, that my guide would mislead a new person into making the wrong weapon choices, to post a 1 page rebuttal saying as such. This guide wasn't for you in the first place.
This guide is intended for people who are poor at ground. Not nitpickers. I give decent, well rounded information that will be true for most new-to-ground gamers. In this guide I give concrete reliable information for sub par ground gamers.
Unless you're politely pointing out an extreme negligence on my part, shut your face. I don't care how or why you don't like my guide. Don't read it. Heck, if you feel so strongly, write your own damn guide. (where I will NOT be greifing you)
"2. You probably won't agree with all/some of this guide.
I do not care. Post whatever you like. Maybe I'll even learn something new."
People just don't seem to read that one clause at the beginning. Oh well.
I'd mostly agree to the guide with these modifications to it.
In STFs RPG mode is slow and clumsy, nothing changes, use shooter mode instead. In the battlezone or anything less predictable RPG mode is definitely more useful.
Weapons wise there are few guns that beat the omega force outside of an STF, its dps, set bonus and procs are pretty awesome. Inside an STF, its bonus is nice, but its an offhand weapon to a pulsewave or splitbeam at best. High density.. eh, that weapon sounds good in theory, until you use it and realize its middle of the pack. Not a fan of the sniper rifle myself.
I find most people "hate" ground combat, but these same people don't use abilities, aim, crouch or flank. In other words, ya, they suck and they just say the game play is bad. Ground ability icons are terrible, and its probably why most don't use the abilities. Setting them up in a sequence is your best bet to get the most out of them, though when swapping kits that gets all buggered.
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One of the highest hits i've seen on it though was a dropkick (not flanking) crit for about 2098 against the T-Rex in the BattleGround. I'm really curious about the actual numbers though, and seeing what is a good point of reference for Ground Combat DPS. What should i be expecting from standard, secondary, and expose attacks numerically?
I agree though, that it is pretty nice being able to see a good thread going about Ground Combat.
I think I screwed up by going all offensive in my ground Rep, I'm an engineer and I can pump out DPS I also attract aggro and die a lot.. are there any suggestions for rep?.
Skills. I have more than the avg toon allocated to ground roughly 70k, but how important or effective is Combat Armor? is it worth ranking up or not ?
Trait wise I sacrificed some space traits to take Lucky, Soldier and Orbital Devastation...focusing on Crit % and severity. Would an Engineer better served with Resilient and Peak Health?
And does the OP's comment apply to the Voth Anitporotn Shocktrooper cannon? I'm finding it pretty decent on ground.. normally I run with an elite fleet split beam and either maco rifle.. or if I'm in my fleet gear a Adopted maco pulsewave.
For Nukara and New Romulus, I always go all defensive passives on the ground. On Tier I Dyson and Omega, it all depends on the character. Both choices are quite valuable. Now Tier III, it's an easy choice, go defensive.
Playing an engineer, I'd suggest running the full MACO set for the shield heal. The enemy neutralization kit is quite useful in PvE, as it allows you to disable a target's weapons. Combat armor is worth the skill points, but you don't want more than 6 ranks. There is very little gain from pushing skills on the ground into the red zone. When working with engineers mainly specced for space, I typically set them up along these lines: http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=lowskillpointsengineergroundbuild_0
Your trait choices are good, Lucky and Soldier are both outstanding traits. However, I'd drop Orbital Devastation for Peak Health or Shield Harmonic Resonance. Resilient is not a good trait at the moment. The resistances from the trait makes very little difference in ground combat due to damage resistance diminishing returns.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
With all due respect, when you post a thread called "Not a "nice" ground guide" and post information that is not just often subjective, it is factually and patently false, you can't get all defensively high-and-mighty. You posted information that you thought was true but often times was insufficient. You could have taken the route to make this a thread where people share ideas, but instead, you kinda get goofy when people point out things you missed.
When you post things like:
"Don't: Think that Exchange gear is "good enough" when you hit level 50."
And that "High Density Beam Rifles do the best Single Target DPS in the game."
and then later downthread about wide beam pistols:
"3. Is the only gun to have this single and multiple target versatility."
You aren't allowed to complain when people add things or do minor nitpicks. In fact, you even went back and edited/adjusted your initial post, even YOU believe some of what you said was false.
I'm not trying to diss you - in fact, i would seem this thread was generally positively receptive to your points - when they were correct or not just subjective nonsense like "Do NOT say "gg"" lolsrslywtf?
Your points in general are great, but they're about as obvious as "Do breathe air! Do NOT breathe water!!!" I know you went back and edited your post to add something to the effect about "This is nto meant to be a complete guide" or some such..but it's too late. To be honest, it's not a particularly useful guide because you miss out on the MOST IMPORTANT MECHANICS of GROUND WARFARE: Expose/Exploit and WEAPON MODIFIERS.
So: tl;dr _ don't get all mad that people comment on your "guide" when people are trying to help and in the final analysis, it's not particularly advanced.
Besides, it's not a "nice" guide, right? Don't expect the feedback to be, either.
Hypos? u kidding right? i never need them. I barely find myself in situations that i need to regenerate my health points. The space in the device slot is more needed for other important stuff. Hypos are a waste LOL.
In the beginning i used to fill my device bar with food and hypos, but not anymore. Once u have learned how to fight in ground, hypos are just an option, an option you will discard because u will want more useful items in your device slot.
Please do tell what the more "useful stuff" is.
When I'm in space combat and I target an enemy using the tab or X key, my screen rotates around to follow the enemy I am shooting at. When it comes to ground, the keys are different. Now, I know about the X and the C keys for target and crouch, as well as the Tab key for changing targets. However, when i'm in a ground combat location against Voth (for example) and those stupid swarmers come in, I can't seem to target and follow them like I would in space combat. Is there a secret to "following" in ground combat without having to click on screen and drag it?
Thanks for the help, in advance!
CM
Thanks for telling me about aim, being in week 3 I did not know about this yet.
Thanks for your reply! I will have to practice and learn how to use the X key...
CM
Escape button >> Options button >> Controls tab >>
In here there a number of different targeting and turn-to-face options to change your Point of View (PoV). I hope that helps.
That's a good question.
First of all, this wasn't intended to be an advanced ground combat manual.
Second, it in no way shape or form covers ALL aspects of ground combat.
Lastly, honesty. I didn't put melee combat in this guide because every time I see someone trying to melee they either are doing it wrong. (with a Bat'Leth or Lirpa) or are doing it wrong (poorly timed lunges as stuns and not focusing on the right mobs) or are doing it wrong (with the wrong kit(s) on) or are doing it wrong (not knowing when to not melee) or are doing it wrong (using the wrong abilities at the wrong times/using no abilites).
Hope that cleared that up for you.
First, my highest level toon is 28, so I wouldn't consider myself to be advanced.
Second, there are several mobs that are melee, and melee functionality is a major component of the ground game. Knowing how melee weapons work helps you understand how and when to use them, and how to counter them.
Third, the bat'leth and lirpa are choices that can be effective if done properly, target choice is important for both melee and ranged and not addressed either, kits for melee are different than kits for ranged and need to be discussed, etc.
I would have understood if you came out and said that you didn't include melee because you do not know how to do melee properly, but the way you replied seemed to show a lack of understanding of this component of the game. I would welcome someone offering some information on this half of the ground game for you to incorporate it into the guide, but please do not come off as an expert when you aren't.
I am not the OP but I would say Melee is questionable most of the time. It is very powerful for those it works against but most enemies can be turned into dust so fast with ranged weapons that Melee is inefficient against them. Most of the rest will run away from Melee making it useless.
The Bat'leth and Lirpa are also horrible Melee weapons because all anything has to do to avoid 100% of their damage is take a single step and most things will. The ONLY time these are useful is when you are mobbed by melee attackers which is rare.
The Swords, especially the Shattering Harmonics Crystal Sword, are a fair bit better with their auto-lunge feature that can keep enemies being hit regardless of if they run but even these are often too hard to get close with to make it worthwhile. Also once you get that close you often leave yourself open to flanking attacks. Additionally there are also enemies that cannot be hit with Melee like Swarmers and those stupid Shielding Exosuits.
So when it comes right down to it, besides the Borg and a few choice enemies, most of the opponents on the ground are much better dealt with via energy weapons and grenades than melee. This means that its usefulness is rather marginal. Also Sweeping Strikes and Lunge/Pounce/Bite are superior in damage output than any Melee weapon further reducing the need for them.
Again, I cannot speak to the endgame content. I have found the BatLirp to be useful in ship halls, but not in rooms or rockside. Yes, melee does require more blocking (the stage term) and movement than shooting. And there are obviously situations wherein melee cannot be used at all. However, it seems that, while the damage of melee may need to be addressed, the ability to circumvent shields is under-appreciated, and melee is more useful than many realize.
I may change my tune by the time I get to fifty, but at this point I find myself being more effective and enjoying the ground content more with my secondary toon, melee, than my primary toon, ranged.
I will not post any further on this topic in this thread, at least until I am leveled up, but I do think many in the community overlook this aspect of the game.
"DPS" on the ground is irrelevant. A combat parser won't help either (and has limited usefulness in space). Even in Ground PvP, it's not about damage per second, it's about timing your abilities to maximize your effectiveness. Damage per second is just your total match damage divided by the length of the engagement, it's not helpful at all.
Everyone on the ground does about the same amount of damage with a weapon. There is a 15% increase in damage between someone with a 0 in weapons proficiency and someone with a 129 in weapons proficiency. If you are a tactical officer, you can get an additional 11% increase from putting 9 ranks in combat specialist.
Instead of thinking about about how much damage per second your weapon is doing, think about how effective your weapon is at taking down a specific target. Pulsewaves, Split Beam Rifles, and Compression Pistols excel at fast target neutralization. Sniper Rifles are good for range. There are also some specialized weapons that work very well.
Outside of that, you have your abilities. The important thing is to use buffs, but don't overdo it. If you are trying to kill a Borg drone, all you will really need is Suppressing Fire and a few pulsewave shots. Now, if the intended target is a Heavy Tactical Drone, you will want to use Target Optics, Strike Team, Fire on my Mark, Ambush, and Battle Strategies with a flanking archwave shot to quickly dispatch it.
I hope that's answered your question. If you need clarification in an area, I'd be more than happy to help.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
It's actually some great advice, but sadly it didn't really answer my question. As it stands, i'm doing pretty well in the area of damage, but i'm wanting to know what a base output is, to judge where i'm at as well as how i can improve. As i currently am, my main is out performing his energy weapons with his melee, and i've added a few things for survivability as well, but i'm still wondering how much room there is for improvement. A lot of times, Even though your advice would be spectacular, i try to melee groups as it grabs and holds aggro, letting me turn the group so everyone is flanking but me.
Still though, thank you for the response, as that is some rediculously good advice i will have to try, especially against the Heavy tacs.
Also; frosted boots !
There are far more useful items than hypos. However, hypos are always necessary, even if you DON'T need them. They're there to keep you alive in those cases when you are dying. You won't care when that isn't happening.
There are too many items for me to slot in 4 device slots right now.
Of them, shard of possibilities is a must-have. It's a mini away team for non-tacs. It makes you UNtargettable for 1-2 seconds, which is just enough for the thing killing you to retarget something else and give you breathing space.
One of my toons has a backstory heavy with "The Second Wave" and is based on the JH set with polaron weapons in space, and can use the nanocell recipies that add bleeding over time, kinetic damage, or shield penetration to your shots for 5 minutes after use on certain weapons. That adds up to a lot of useful options you can tack onto your weapons damage. I keep a small stack of these nanocells ready for use. Other toons can make use of weapons cells which will boost damage quite significantly for a number of seconds. By running these nonstop you'll enhance your total damage quite a lot. However it takes up a slot.
My KDF have a fighting targ that can attack enemies, but it also takes up a device slot.
Then there's shield repairs.
Counting hypos as the 4th, that often leaves me with no free slots, and picking and choosing. I can't run tribbles anymore because I don't have room. Those tribble buffs are quite nice and I miss them. They can add heal over time, damage resistance, hold resistances, enhanced damage to enemies, tons of useful stuff that I wish I could use.
If you're able to afford it you can get shield+heal hypos. If you're really rich you can get TEAM shield+heal hypos, though you might break the bank. That saves you a slot by putting 2 heals into 1 device, but you run out of them faster depending on the situations.
There are others, too... Let's not forget the borg remodulator or fractal remodulator or the pre-modulated consumable packs. The stupid borg adapt way too fast even with STF 3pc set bonus that remodulates "instantly" (it's not instant, and it has a long cooldown, I can fire 1 weapon, borg adapt, fire second, they adapt, and still have to wait 1-2 seconds before I can remodulate to fire again). If you run fleet gear or if you don't have a full STF set yet, you NEED one of these devices, which means ditching another useful option.
There are reinforcement calls from fleet and rep stores that will beam in helpers for a short time (not useful IMO) and the devidian cane (that can be a really helpful heal when you're being killed). There are disposable shroud generators and plenty of other things. I won't list them all.
Where did you find/get a combat targ?
I was gone for a while and when I came back they had revamped the early trainer missions, and these missions were all available, even though I was at lvl 50. I like the storyline content (I wish Cryptic would do more like The Second Wave, rather than the TRIBBLE dyson zone), so I went to play it all. It's a white-quality combat pet that you get for one of the early missions. You go to the ice prison (rura penthe?) and afterwards one of the rewards is this device. Not sure if it was automatic or if you had to choose that from your options.
At first I just stored it, then I used it a couple times, and figured "why not?" and just run it normally now.
Me, and my channel. hope it helps.