What if the random team mode mixed federation and kdf players on a team? What if you would randomly get a space or ground match? Also, what if the daily mission that rewarded fleet marks was to do 3 random matches and the other random dailies that rewarded fleet marks for pvp where removed?
This would be such a great fix and encourage players to embrace space and ground both!
I am not so sure about mixing the factions... although, I am all for random faction enemy.. i.e. you queue solo, you get either a pug fed or pug kdf team. Same with the team queue. Earlier (I think in this thread) someone was concerned about the FvK specific queues taking a hit because of splitting the base between the team/solo queue (they take forever to pop now). So I am definitely in favor of removing the FvK queues to make room for the Solo/Team queues.
Not sure the random ground or space would work well... I actually enjoyed ground PvP for a bout a week... as much as people complain about premades in space... ground is worse... I'd happily return to ground pvp if it were a true random match... but don't want it to "surprise me"... some people just don't care for ground combat in STO... I wouldn't want to create an environment where people get ground... and 1/2 the team immediately beams up.
...
This game does not encourage an organised team, if it did you would be required to have a team before joining a queue. As it is they encourage a pick up and play, have fun and get your small slice of reward pla...
this game encouraged and demanded organised teamplay even in PvE (stfs).
some people cried for easier stf and the teamplay got pointless.
now some player cry for "easier" pvp queues (teamplay-free-queues). its not our (teamplayer) fault, that some people have no interest in teamplay without having the disadvantage when they play against organized players.
this game encouraged and demanded organised teamplay even in PvE (stfs).
some people cried for easier stf and the teamplay got pointless.
now some player cry for "easier" pvp queues (teamplay-free-queues). its not our (teamplayer) fault, that some people have no interest in teamplay without having the disadvantage when they play against organized players.
Its not peoples fault if their fleet happens to not be on at the time so would rather queue solo without being at a disadvantage. Stop trying to force everyone to cater to your schedule.
this game encouraged and demanded organised teamplay even in PvE (stfs).
some people cried for easier stf and the teamplay got pointless.
now some player cry for "easier" pvp queues (teamplay-free-queues). its not our (teamplayer) fault, that some people have no interest in teamplay without having the disadvantage when they play against organized players.
When you quote me please don't snip out the parts that quantify the statements.
What I said was that this game doesn't encourage team play and it encourages a casual pick up and play attitude and player base. This is what the devs have explicitly stated is the direction they are taking the game. They want people to be able to hop into the game, sometimes meet up with friends, shoot some stuff, have a blast and get a small slice of reward for it. They could encourage teamwork but that wouldn't gel we'll with the casual aspect.
"We" or "them" or "they" from the player base are not doing this as some part of concerted effort to undermine PvP. The casual and PvE players are not all asking for stuff to be dumbed down or to remove teamwork, this is a Cryptic/PWE decision in order to appeal to a wider audience.
It may not mesh well with PvP as it is now but one of three things will happen for certain.
1)PvP stays the same and almost never changes (we'll gets worse if you believe half the threads)
2)PvP will get changed to make it fit this new direction they are going in, as in make it more casual.
3)They simply remove PvP.
A random Q would encourage more people to pvp since they will know they do not have to fight an organized or exploitive team and have a fair chance at a good match.
A random Q would encourage more people to pvp since they will know they do not have to fight an organized or exploitive team and have a fair chance at a good match.
Or get equally frustrated at the lack of teamwork and still take a lot of deaths, not understand the mechanics, give up, and never queue again.
Lies and an ill attempt to prevent a gameplay option that would eventually lead to the ground pvp micro fleets demise.
How did I say it would limit it? I want it split. But I've pugged, and I know how pugs react when they take upteen deaths, even against other pugs. Usually they beam out or just hide somewhere. If PvP missions were removed from Quinn, and just the queue, then maybe only people familiar with PvP type play would queue, and it wouldn't be inexperienced people running around in shooter mode with mini guns not even hitting the team buffs.
So yes, let them have there only queue. I'm all for it. I have no desire stomping over a way under prepared pug team. But they don't want to learn. They want there dilithium. I've seen it, I've seen people in team chat just say "I'm only here for my dilithium." It has to be frustrating to go into a map and take upteen deaths, against a pre or pug made. Not even getting a chance to hit whatever those buttons do that they don't know about. Some just hit level 50. And how do you propose to stop the griefing that will surely entail? Because it already does even in the current queue. AFK penaltes? Well that could be viable if it works in the PvE queues. But now what about the people that keep running into 5 people and get killed? Some pugs don't know that's not a good strategy, so they would be penalized for ignorance? How do you fix this?
I've stated before. some problems with pugmades are (but not inclusive):
* Language barriers
* I'm SUPER at PvE, I'm better than everyone in here, so I'm good at PvP attitude.
* Age (which goes into comprehension. It's F2P now. 10 year olds play now. And I understand in this day and age, they probably have even a bigger grasp than some old man like me)
* Don't understand mechanics of the game
* Don't understand their kits
* Don't understand their weapons
* Just want credit to finish the damn mission that's been in their list for a month now.
Watching 5 people run around a map in shooter mode, or not knowing what to do is no more fun than them going against a premade. So if they're confused, and they die a lot, what reason would someone new to PvP come back, when it's really not a big Dilithium grind, it only gives 50 fleet marks, and they're gonna die a lot?
Why not teach them how to run as a unit? Then you can counter broken bugs that are in this game much easier. If I'm being Cryoed, I can ask an engineer to throw a cover shield in front of me and break it. If they're being Cryoed, or in an animation, I can throw heals on them and help them tank it out. You seem to think Pugs won't eventually pick up on the broken things to. And then what? So now you'll have a pug that has a broken Doff, weapon, ability, whatever Cryptic may break next, and now you have the same problems in pug queues.
So I've laid out my thesis. Unfortunately, there is no current way to test the theory, but I've laid out what I've seen in pugmades. So if they want their own queue to do that, great! But why not teach someone to be better in the game, learn team work, and function as a team. We aren't Borg. We can be individuals and a team. Everyone I work with in real life has individual characteristics and personalities. However, if we don't work together, as a team, each person doing their part to put the product together, i'd be out of a job. Even in Hammer, we don't require anything. We don't require any certain weapon, any certain kit, any certain armor. We've all played and chosen what we are comfortable with. And the rest of us have adapted to each other's play style. Does it always work? No of course not. But it's the choice of the player.
Just as much as you can't grasp the idea of functioning as a unit, I can't grasp how you enjoy chaos. So, without calling me a liar, creep, cheater, pug stomper, or other negative attacks, can you counter?
Watching 5 people run around a map in shooter mode, or not knowing what to do is no more fun than them going against a premade. So if they're confused, and they die a lot, what reason would someone new to PvP come back, when it's really not a big Dilithium grind, it only gives 50 fleet marks, and they're gonna die a lot?
Why not teach them how to run as a unit? Then you can counter broken bugs that are in this game much easier.
Maybe some people don't want to have to understand every nook and cranny of a VIDEO GAME. Maybe some people just want to goof off and spar with other players in a light hearted match.
Maybe some people don't want to have to understand every nook and cranny of a VIDEO GAME. Maybe some people just want to goof off and spar with other players in a light hearted match.
Maybe not, but some people enjoy learning and understanding the game to get the full experience of the game.
So what about those that do want to be the best they can be and part of enjoying the game is knowing the game. What if those people start queuing? Do we now have a third queue? Im starting to wonder if you're missing the point of Person Vs Person aspect. What you may be looking for is a special channel where new people and casual players can X up and make matches. Yes, its a quasi premade, but not like the ones you think are so evil.
Given my points in my above post, I really do not think the split queues will give you what you're looking for, especially not in the long term. People will eventually discover the broken mechanics and use them. They'll eventually venture to the forums and see posts about bug fixes, or problems. And they will eventually research or ask questions. And ultimately, some will eventually team up.
That's quite the paradox, how could you nerf nerf when the nerf is nerfed. But how would the nerf be nerfed when the nerf is nerfed? This allows the nerf not to be nerfed since the nerf is nerfed? But if the nerf isn't nerfed, it could still nerf nerfs. But as soon as the nerf is nerfed, the nerf power is lost. So paradoxally it the nerf nerf lost its nerf, while it's still nerfed, which cannot be because the nerf was unable to nerf.
I am certain that the majority of the STO community dose not agree with you.
But you're not backing it up, even presenting any theories with experiences. You want the community to agree with YOU because it is what you want. I did a pug match today with 3 sciences. Not one person crouched, not one person used their kit on my team other than me. Against 3 regular PvPers who also had pugs. We won, because we eventually were able to coordinate via communication. Will those pugs ever queue again? I don't know. But the fact is, the reason they won't will NOT be because they took upteen deaths. A goof off light hearted match does not have to mean no teamwork.
I have presented my opinion with things that I have encountered in the game both with and against pugs. So please back up why you are certain the majority of the STO community does not agree with me. I think, and it's an opinion based on what I've seen life in general, that most people when presented with teamwork and everyone helping everyone in a common goal, has a better time than being in a group just bouncing off walls like some kid with ADD. So a question is, if presented with knowing how to use the kits, even basic mechanics of the game, and being supported, could some of the people that you think disagree with me change their mind when placed in a situation where they do have the experience of learning how to be better. From my short time on this earth, I've found that the majority of civilization want to strive for the best they can, both in life and in whatever hobby/game they do.
Ill quote a fleetmate in my response to this thread
"A good player is a good player, Ry. It doesnt matter who he is with, even the worst players, he can still make all the difference."
And it has rang true before. Even in our fleet premade groups we have run across guys that can get kills on us, because they have the right tools and knowledge to do so. They dont always win the fight, usually dont if its just them and so on, but they give us something to worry about.
Especially a certain couple of Tvaro vapers that are currently on my hitlist. >_> Yes this means you "derogatory term for a country person" (no naming, lolz)
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I am certain that the majority of the STO community dose not agree with you.
I cant vouch for the majority (although i do suspect your sentiments are correct) but as for myself, i do agree with you Bi. On a side note i agree with your sentiments for both ground and space as im viewing pvp as a not space-only thing.
If there where a safer environment for players to get their feet wet interest would rise. I would like to see the daily mission that rewards fleet marks changed to do 3 random games. The random match selection could place you in space or ground on a randomly built team. That would encourage people to embrace both aspects of the game instead of building separate charecters for space or ground.
If there where a safer environment for players to get their feet wet interest would rise. I would like to see the daily mission that rewards fleet marks changed to do 3 random games. The random match selection could place you in space or ground on a randomly built team. That would encourage people to embrace both aspects of the game instead of building separate charecters for space or ground.
PvP in general could not ever be categorized as "safe". Even if you're not going against premades, you'd risk going against experienced pugs. PvP Bootcamp had aspirations of educating players in PvP, but I'm not sure what is going on with that. Maybe if Qs were full at earlier levels, and they got experience at a lower level where it was normal Mark Whatever gear, they would be more prepared, and also learn tactics. I think you're looking at the problem from the wrong rank. Instead of at lvl 50, things should be done at earlier levels to get the more familiar with the mechanics of PvP. I don't have any solution to propose to get people involved that low in the game. I've stated my concerns of segregated Qs. I don't think that's the final answer.
Some of the problems, also, is you level up so fast in this game, that you don't have a chance to PvP at lower levels. Perhaps, they could split missions at certain levels and you could take a PvP tree or a PvE tree. I feel, in general, if a person doesn't like PvP in general, in any game, they won't want to do it in this game either. So if there is a choice, and they can be introduced earlier to it, perhaps things could be better.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Boot camp has never been successful. Just look at the Q.
This is true. They even flat out cancelled any ground training. The Boot Camp is not the definitely not the answer, and I'm not sure there is a long term answer any more.
This is true. They even flat out cancelled any ground training. The Boot Camp is not the definitely not the answer, and I'm not sure there is a long term answer any more.
Mmmmhmmm, the game is too far gone. Bringing PvP back to an enjoyable state would require much more time and effort than Cryptic is willing to put into it, I fear.
Mmmmhmmm, the game is too far gone. Bringing PvP back to an enjoyable state would require much more time and effort than Cryptic is willing to put into it, I fear.
I think part of is their mindset that a high turn around of players translate to more money for them. New people will buy what we already have. We already have the uniforms or ships we want. New people obviously don't.
I think part of is their mindset that a high turn around of players translate to more money for them. New people will buy what we already have. We already have the uniforms or ships we want. New people obviously don't.
Yep, was saying the same thing a few nights ago on TS. They're actually counting on high-turnover.
This is true. They even flat out cancelled any ground training. The Boot Camp is not the definitely not the answer, and I'm not sure there is a long term answer any more.
The ground part of Boot Camp was stopped on the decision of (at the time) the ground coaches, several of whom were from FES at the time, chose to stop it because 'if we continued, we would have to start teaching broken mechanics and exploits'. If I am remembering that correctly.
Now, my memory could be wrong, still only human.
Ground part of it could come back, if it's what the ground PvPers are willing to do.
I also wouldn't call it a failure either. Boot Camp is very much a 'reap what you sow' situation. When PvPers support it, and there are many people coming in (like the very first class it had), then it does well. When there is little support and few hear about it to join, then there is a smaller class and such.
Simply saying it 'failed' without looking at possibly why it 'failed' isn't looking at the whole picture.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
The ground part of Boot Camp was stopped on the decision of (at the time) the ground coaches, several of whom were from FES at the time, chose to stop it because 'if we continued, we would have to start teaching broken mechanics and exploits'. If I am remembering that correctly.
Now, my memory could be wrong, still only human.
Ground part of it could come back, if it's what the ground PvPers are willing to do.
I also wouldn't call it a failure either. Boot Camp is very much a 'reap what you sow' situation. When PvPers support it, and there are many people coming in (like the very first class it had), then it does well. When there is little support and few hear about it to join, then there is a smaller class and such.
Simply saying it 'failed' without looking at possibly why it 'failed' isn't looking at the whole picture.
Well, if the regular PvPers aren't taking it seriously, and aren't tying to get it going, and aren't supporting it, then something is wrong, don't you think? I've tried to be involved and mostly got the "bugger off" treatment. But I wish it the best of luck if it ever gets going again.
Well, if the regular PvPers aren't taking it seriously, and aren't tying to get it going, and aren't supporting it, then something is wrong, don't you think? I've tried to be involved and mostly got the "bugger off" treatment. But I wish it the best of luck if it ever gets going again.
Indeed. But just as we cannot force anyone to be a coach, we cannot force people who graduated to PvP. Point is that saying that Boot Camp has failed due to the queues not really improving isn't really true because all we did was just teach them, nothing more, nothing less.
Now, that aside, you got the 'bugger off' treatment. I'm curious, who were you talking to, and when was this? I ask because I would like to first apologize for it on behalf of Boot Camp, since we never want such a thing to happen, as it is meant to be neutral ground, and whoever said that probably wasn't being neutral about it. Nobody is turned down from Boot Camp, either to coach or to be a student.
If you don't wish to talk on it, that is fine as well. If you do wish to talk on it, you can send me a PM to prevent any 'name and shame'.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
The last two days I specifically played Pug PvP, joined no team... quite frankly, this really needs to be addressed.
I reiterate my request for a PUG vs Team Queue. Teams are free to play eachother, but people pugging in should only be faced with other PUGS.... absolutely no teams being formed prior to joining the queue).
It is absolutely ridiculous the number of pre-formed teams, with skills well beyond a Pug group....
As I said in another queue, there are times that I team with Fleeties, and we are improving... and I would use a team queue in those instances.
People facing full pre-formed/premade teams with 4 other pugs who met eachother upon warping in learn nothing of how to pvp... and many just leave.
I am all for people learning, and expanding their skill sets, and I hope that the team we are building in our fleet, will one day be competitive. But that is not today...
None the less, I pugged for 2 straight days... faced numerous premade/preformed teams never saw anyone looking for a match in OPvP nor Tyler Durden... so I call BS on "there are no other teams to play".
So again, we need seperate queues for the true Pick Up games, Team play (I have nothing against this) needs their own queue. The quality of games for both groups of players would improve.
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This would be such a great fix and encourage players to embrace space and ground both!
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Not sure the random ground or space would work well... I actually enjoyed ground PvP for a bout a week... as much as people complain about premades in space... ground is worse... I'd happily return to ground pvp if it were a true random match... but don't want it to "surprise me"... some people just don't care for ground combat in STO... I wouldn't want to create an environment where people get ground... and 1/2 the team immediately beams up.
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some people cried for easier stf and the teamplay got pointless.
now some player cry for "easier" pvp queues (teamplay-free-queues). its not our (teamplayer) fault, that some people have no interest in teamplay without having the disadvantage when they play against organized players.
Its not peoples fault if their fleet happens to not be on at the time so would rather queue solo without being at a disadvantage. Stop trying to force everyone to cater to your schedule.
When you quote me please don't snip out the parts that quantify the statements.
What I said was that this game doesn't encourage team play and it encourages a casual pick up and play attitude and player base. This is what the devs have explicitly stated is the direction they are taking the game. They want people to be able to hop into the game, sometimes meet up with friends, shoot some stuff, have a blast and get a small slice of reward for it. They could encourage teamwork but that wouldn't gel we'll with the casual aspect.
"We" or "them" or "they" from the player base are not doing this as some part of concerted effort to undermine PvP. The casual and PvE players are not all asking for stuff to be dumbed down or to remove teamwork, this is a Cryptic/PWE decision in order to appeal to a wider audience.
It may not mesh well with PvP as it is now but one of three things will happen for certain.
1)PvP stays the same and almost never changes (we'll gets worse if you believe half the threads)
2)PvP will get changed to make it fit this new direction they are going in, as in make it more casual.
3)They simply remove PvP.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
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Or get equally frustrated at the lack of teamwork and still take a lot of deaths, not understand the mechanics, give up, and never queue again.
Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
Lies and an ill attempt to prevent a gameplay option that would eventually lead to the ground pvp micro fleets demise.
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How did I say it would limit it? I want it split. But I've pugged, and I know how pugs react when they take upteen deaths, even against other pugs. Usually they beam out or just hide somewhere. If PvP missions were removed from Quinn, and just the queue, then maybe only people familiar with PvP type play would queue, and it wouldn't be inexperienced people running around in shooter mode with mini guns not even hitting the team buffs.
So yes, let them have there only queue. I'm all for it. I have no desire stomping over a way under prepared pug team. But they don't want to learn. They want there dilithium. I've seen it, I've seen people in team chat just say "I'm only here for my dilithium." It has to be frustrating to go into a map and take upteen deaths, against a pre or pug made. Not even getting a chance to hit whatever those buttons do that they don't know about. Some just hit level 50. And how do you propose to stop the griefing that will surely entail? Because it already does even in the current queue. AFK penaltes? Well that could be viable if it works in the PvE queues. But now what about the people that keep running into 5 people and get killed? Some pugs don't know that's not a good strategy, so they would be penalized for ignorance? How do you fix this?
I've stated before. some problems with pugmades are (but not inclusive):
* Language barriers
* I'm SUPER at PvE, I'm better than everyone in here, so I'm good at PvP attitude.
* Age (which goes into comprehension. It's F2P now. 10 year olds play now. And I understand in this day and age, they probably have even a bigger grasp than some old man like me)
* Don't understand mechanics of the game
* Don't understand their kits
* Don't understand their weapons
* Just want credit to finish the damn mission that's been in their list for a month now.
Watching 5 people run around a map in shooter mode, or not knowing what to do is no more fun than them going against a premade. So if they're confused, and they die a lot, what reason would someone new to PvP come back, when it's really not a big Dilithium grind, it only gives 50 fleet marks, and they're gonna die a lot?
Why not teach them how to run as a unit? Then you can counter broken bugs that are in this game much easier. If I'm being Cryoed, I can ask an engineer to throw a cover shield in front of me and break it. If they're being Cryoed, or in an animation, I can throw heals on them and help them tank it out. You seem to think Pugs won't eventually pick up on the broken things to. And then what? So now you'll have a pug that has a broken Doff, weapon, ability, whatever Cryptic may break next, and now you have the same problems in pug queues.
So I've laid out my thesis. Unfortunately, there is no current way to test the theory, but I've laid out what I've seen in pugmades. So if they want their own queue to do that, great! But why not teach someone to be better in the game, learn team work, and function as a team. We aren't Borg. We can be individuals and a team. Everyone I work with in real life has individual characteristics and personalities. However, if we don't work together, as a team, each person doing their part to put the product together, i'd be out of a job. Even in Hammer, we don't require anything. We don't require any certain weapon, any certain kit, any certain armor. We've all played and chosen what we are comfortable with. And the rest of us have adapted to each other's play style. Does it always work? No of course not. But it's the choice of the player.
Just as much as you can't grasp the idea of functioning as a unit, I can't grasp how you enjoy chaos. So, without calling me a liar, creep, cheater, pug stomper, or other negative attacks, can you counter?
Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
Maybe some people don't want to have to understand every nook and cranny of a VIDEO GAME. Maybe some people just want to goof off and spar with other players in a light hearted match.
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Maybe not, but some people enjoy learning and understanding the game to get the full experience of the game.
So what about those that do want to be the best they can be and part of enjoying the game is knowing the game. What if those people start queuing? Do we now have a third queue? Im starting to wonder if you're missing the point of Person Vs Person aspect. What you may be looking for is a special channel where new people and casual players can X up and make matches. Yes, its a quasi premade, but not like the ones you think are so evil.
Given my points in my above post, I really do not think the split queues will give you what you're looking for, especially not in the long term. People will eventually discover the broken mechanics and use them. They'll eventually venture to the forums and see posts about bug fixes, or problems. And they will eventually research or ask questions. And ultimately, some will eventually team up.
Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
I am certain that the majority of the STO community dose not agree with you.
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I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
But you're not backing it up, even presenting any theories with experiences. You want the community to agree with YOU because it is what you want. I did a pug match today with 3 sciences. Not one person crouched, not one person used their kit on my team other than me. Against 3 regular PvPers who also had pugs. We won, because we eventually were able to coordinate via communication. Will those pugs ever queue again? I don't know. But the fact is, the reason they won't will NOT be because they took upteen deaths. A goof off light hearted match does not have to mean no teamwork.
I have presented my opinion with things that I have encountered in the game both with and against pugs. So please back up why you are certain the majority of the STO community does not agree with me. I think, and it's an opinion based on what I've seen life in general, that most people when presented with teamwork and everyone helping everyone in a common goal, has a better time than being in a group just bouncing off walls like some kid with ADD. So a question is, if presented with knowing how to use the kits, even basic mechanics of the game, and being supported, could some of the people that you think disagree with me change their mind when placed in a situation where they do have the experience of learning how to be better. From my short time on this earth, I've found that the majority of civilization want to strive for the best they can, both in life and in whatever hobby/game they do.
Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
Too funny, you know what the majority of the player base wants....HAHAHAHA
You are nominated for preposterous statement of the year
"A good player is a good player, Ry. It doesnt matter who he is with, even the worst players, he can still make all the difference."
And it has rang true before. Even in our fleet premade groups we have run across guys that can get kills on us, because they have the right tools and knowledge to do so. They dont always win the fight, usually dont if its just them and so on, but they give us something to worry about.
Especially a certain couple of Tvaro vapers that are currently on my hitlist. >_> Yes this means you "derogatory term for a country person" (no naming, lolz)
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I cant vouch for the majority (although i do suspect your sentiments are correct) but as for myself, i do agree with you Bi. On a side note i agree with your sentiments for both ground and space as im viewing pvp as a not space-only thing.
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Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
PvP in general could not ever be categorized as "safe". Even if you're not going against premades, you'd risk going against experienced pugs. PvP Bootcamp had aspirations of educating players in PvP, but I'm not sure what is going on with that. Maybe if Qs were full at earlier levels, and they got experience at a lower level where it was normal Mark Whatever gear, they would be more prepared, and also learn tactics. I think you're looking at the problem from the wrong rank. Instead of at lvl 50, things should be done at earlier levels to get the more familiar with the mechanics of PvP. I don't have any solution to propose to get people involved that low in the game. I've stated my concerns of segregated Qs. I don't think that's the final answer.
Some of the problems, also, is you level up so fast in this game, that you don't have a chance to PvP at lower levels. Perhaps, they could split missions at certain levels and you could take a PvP tree or a PvE tree. I feel, in general, if a person doesn't like PvP in general, in any game, they won't want to do it in this game either. So if there is a choice, and they can be introduced earlier to it, perhaps things could be better.
Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
Right now Bootcamp is just on holiday.
Boot camp has never been successful. Just look at the Q.
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Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
This is true. They even flat out cancelled any ground training. The Boot Camp is not the definitely not the answer, and I'm not sure there is a long term answer any more.
Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
Mmmmhmmm, the game is too far gone. Bringing PvP back to an enjoyable state would require much more time and effort than Cryptic is willing to put into it, I fear.
I think part of is their mindset that a high turn around of players translate to more money for them. New people will buy what we already have. We already have the uniforms or ships we want. New people obviously don't.
Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
Yep, was saying the same thing a few nights ago on TS. They're actually counting on high-turnover.
The ground part of Boot Camp was stopped on the decision of (at the time) the ground coaches, several of whom were from FES at the time, chose to stop it because 'if we continued, we would have to start teaching broken mechanics and exploits'. If I am remembering that correctly.
Now, my memory could be wrong, still only human.
Ground part of it could come back, if it's what the ground PvPers are willing to do.
I also wouldn't call it a failure either. Boot Camp is very much a 'reap what you sow' situation. When PvPers support it, and there are many people coming in (like the very first class it had), then it does well. When there is little support and few hear about it to join, then there is a smaller class and such.
Simply saying it 'failed' without looking at possibly why it 'failed' isn't looking at the whole picture.
Well, if the regular PvPers aren't taking it seriously, and aren't tying to get it going, and aren't supporting it, then something is wrong, don't you think? I've tried to be involved and mostly got the "bugger off" treatment. But I wish it the best of luck if it ever gets going again.
Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
Indeed. But just as we cannot force anyone to be a coach, we cannot force people who graduated to PvP. Point is that saying that Boot Camp has failed due to the queues not really improving isn't really true because all we did was just teach them, nothing more, nothing less.
Now, that aside, you got the 'bugger off' treatment. I'm curious, who were you talking to, and when was this? I ask because I would like to first apologize for it on behalf of Boot Camp, since we never want such a thing to happen, as it is meant to be neutral ground, and whoever said that probably wasn't being neutral about it. Nobody is turned down from Boot Camp, either to coach or to be a student.
If you don't wish to talk on it, that is fine as well. If you do wish to talk on it, you can send me a PM to prevent any 'name and shame'.
The last two days I specifically played Pug PvP, joined no team... quite frankly, this really needs to be addressed.
I reiterate my request for a PUG vs Team Queue. Teams are free to play eachother, but people pugging in should only be faced with other PUGS.... absolutely no teams being formed prior to joining the queue).
It is absolutely ridiculous the number of pre-formed teams, with skills well beyond a Pug group....
As I said in another queue, there are times that I team with Fleeties, and we are improving... and I would use a team queue in those instances.
People facing full pre-formed/premade teams with 4 other pugs who met eachother upon warping in learn nothing of how to pvp... and many just leave.
I am all for people learning, and expanding their skill sets, and I hope that the team we are building in our fleet, will one day be competitive. But that is not today...
None the less, I pugged for 2 straight days... faced numerous premade/preformed teams never saw anyone looking for a match in OPvP nor Tyler Durden... so I call BS on "there are no other teams to play".
So again, we need seperate queues for the true Pick Up games, Team play (I have nothing against this) needs their own queue. The quality of games for both groups of players would improve.
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