Nova yes started that way but has "some" combat capabilities. USS RHODE Island engaged a Neghvar in the last episode of Voyager. USS Nova was part of the task force sent to help the Enterprise-E battle the Scimitar. I'd argue I'd rather have a Nova than a Miranda. The original design of the Nova was a warship but the design lost to that of the Defiant. The design was later redesigned and retooled towards science missions.
Here's the problem: you're operating on your own interpretation of what you've seen. Not what the ships in question are designated and designed for in-universe.
Do I think that calling the Saber an LC while the Steamrunner is a Frigate is curious? Yes I do. But those are the classifications those vessels carry.
If you're basing your argument solely on what you think a ship class should be, then we have nothing more to discuss. There is source material backing up every classification edit to your list that I made. If you choose to ignore that and run with what you want those ships to be, that's fine. But don't try to pawn it off as sourced.
The Fleet/Long Range Science Vessel/Refit/Retrofit (AKA Intrepid) ships need to at LEAST have the same Tac as the Sci ships before it. The fact that the Fleet version doesn't even get a Uni Station is a nail in the coffin for that ship. Even the Reconnaissance Science Vessel gets 2 Tac (3 skills). The Tier 4 version gets more Engineering then the Tier 5. Would love to see the Fleet & Retrofit versions have the Vesta Bridge Officer layout.
As far as the Nebula, it needs 4/4 weapons but then it wouldn't be a Sci ship anymore. It looks like Cryptic went out of their way to make the Iconic TV show main ships gimped.
Be nice if it had a single Hanger Bay too, as ships could launch from the top of the Module.
It looks like all ships mostly follow the same layout structure:
1x Cmdr., 1x Lt. Cmdr., 2x Lt., 1x Ensign
Or create a ZEN Bridge Officer Station Refit for ANY ship, allowing us to change any ships Bridge Officer layout to the standard 1x Cmdr., 1x Lt. Cmdr., 2x Lt., 1x Ensign, but the Cmdr slot must be Tac, Eng, or Sci depending on the ship type.
Other Sci ships with ok/same layouts:
Mirror / Reconnaissance Science Vessel (More Tac then Intrepid)
Mirror Universe Deep Space Science Vessel (equal to the ZEN ong Range Science Vessel Refit)
Are you all that oblivious? Voyager was meant to be a nimble, long-ranged, state of the art, multi-mission tactically-oriented "schooner" (like a corvette-light cruiser hybrid: a class all its own). At LEAST let it have 105? dual beam banks
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "The Borg - party-poopers of the galaxy"~ The Doctor
you know i was really bummed that was never a console for either version even if it was not that great. and the charge up is the voice of the doctor proclaiming to fire the photonic cannon!!
you know i was really bummed that was never a console for either version even if it was not that great. and the charge up is the voice of the doctor proclaiming to fire the photonic cannon!!
You know, seeing the Gal-X on your signature makes me think of something they should add. Even if it was like a vet-only reward: an Ambassador skin for the Gal-X. *foams at mouth*
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "The Borg - party-poopers of the galaxy"~ The Doctor
Also, the intrepid needs a turn rate buff. 12? You're saying a Chel Grett could out maneuver Voyager? Pffft. Sure. When Hell freezes over--Q that is NOT and invitation you sardonic old TRIBBLE.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "The Borg - party-poopers of the galaxy"~ The Doctor
A curious choice to me with the science ships is the 3/3 layout. I understand the balanced layout for a cruiser. They are larger and slower and therefore more likely to use broadside attacks (though I never really recall any broadside attacks during the shows or movies) The balanced layout on the more nimble science ships though really makes no sense. They have better turn rate than cruisers so why not let them take advantage of that and if they must keep the 6 weapon slots go for a 4/2 layout. OR how about some variety so every ship doesn't have the same layout. Leave the 3/3 for the larger science ships like the Nebula, Vesta, Destiny and D'kyr (please release a fleet version of the D'kyr, my all Vulcan crew would appreciate it). Give a 4/2 layout to the Nova, Luna, Intrepid and Olympic reflecting their higher turn rate.
Broadside attacks weren't really necessary, cruisers were meant (in STO) to approach a battlezone, fire torpedoes and use their beam banks to protect all points.
The excel did do broadside assaults against the defiant during the coup in DS9. But the excel wasn't moving quickly.
Remember, in this game, torpedoes arent that powerful, but in canon they are weapon of choice against heavier ships or slow moving targets. Beams for precision fire situations.
Why not make science ships the opposite of escorts?
Our escorts have either 4/3 or 5/2 weapon setups, typically.
Cruisers have 4/4 (and, on occasion, 5/3 with battlecruisers).
Science ships could have more rear firing slots than forward firing, so a setup like 3/5. This could allow them to specialize a bit more as minelayers, or allow kiting tactics where you face your backside at the enemy and fire away.
Why not make science ships the opposite of escorts?
Our escorts have either 4/3 or 5/2 weapon setups, typically.
Cruisers have 4/4 (and, on occasion, 5/3 with battlecruisers).
Science ships could have more rear firing slots than forward firing, so a setup like 3/5. This could allow them to specialize a bit more as minelayers, or allow kiting tactics where you face your backside at the enemy and fire away.
This. I have been toying with this idea too.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Why not make science ships the opposite of escorts?
Our escorts have either 4/3 or 5/2 weapon setups, typically.
Cruisers have 4/4 (and, on occasion, 5/3 with battlecruisers).
Science ships could have more rear firing slots than forward firing, so a setup like 3/5. This could allow them to specialize a bit more as minelayers, or allow kiting tactics where you face your backside at the enemy and fire away.
except all the good science abilites are front arc....and you cant really have more than 3 mines on a ship lol
I find this line of replies sadly hilarious. We put a lot of work into the massive list of fixes/changes above, and ya'll are hung up on the ability to skip our content. =p
The only real problem with the Intrepid in terms of the game's balance model is the turn-rate, which is way too slow. The ship model is no bigger than an escort and should have a turn-rate of about 13.
Also, every c-store and fleet ship that has an Ensign BOFF station but doesn't have a Unii BOFF station should be converted to a Uni Ensign. This would make most of the ships significantly more flexible. In some cases this might be too much flexibility (a fleet Defiant with 2/1 engi or sci would be delicious), but when you look at the seating on the basic Romulan ships any kind of specialty argument is gone.
The only real problem with the Intrepid in terms of the game's balance model is the turn-rate, which is way too slow. The ship model is no bigger than an escort and should have a turn-rate of about 13.
+1 to turn rate? Wouldn't make that much difference I think but hey, who can pick on any improvement they make
Also, every c-store and fleet ship that has an Ensign BOFF station but doesn't have a Unii BOFF station should be converted to a Uni Ensign. This would make most of the ships significantly more flexible. In some cases this might be too much flexibility (a fleet Defiant with 2/1 engi or sci would be delicious), but when you look at the seating on the basic Romulan ships any kind of specialty argument is gone.
i always thought the station setup on the ship didn't fit it at all. though i think it being a sci ship fits. heavy sci is sort of what makes up for it being smaller and mechanically weaker then the larger ships in game. the only sci ship that should have 4 forward weapons is the nebula.
i always thought the station setup on the ship didn't fit it at all. though i think it being a sci ship fits. heavy sci is sort of what makes up for it being smaller and mechanically weaker then the larger ships in game. the only sci ship that should have 4 forward weapons is the nebula.
A though that occurred to me for the Intrepid family Retrofits; and their console. The LRSV could see some interesting Sci gameplay if the Ablative Armor was changed from a 15 second duration, to a flat toggle. The catch would be, damage taken would erode the armor, reducing its effectiveness over time, eventually either forcing the armor offline, or the player would turn it off as the armor's effectiveness was too low anyways. Then you'd see the usual 3 min recharge.
I think a simple tweak like this could really offer a change the way you would play the LRSV, especially when moving the console up to its Fleet upgraded version; though the BOff Station proposal sounds good too.
I'd like to point out that we can't use the TV show to show what stations Voyager is supposed to have. And that is because most of the original senior staff died. :P The highest ranking surviving member was Tuvok, who was only a lieutenant at the time.
Comments
Here's the problem: you're operating on your own interpretation of what you've seen. Not what the ships in question are designated and designed for in-universe.
Do I think that calling the Saber an LC while the Steamrunner is a Frigate is curious? Yes I do. But those are the classifications those vessels carry.
If you're basing your argument solely on what you think a ship class should be, then we have nothing more to discuss. There is source material backing up every classification edit to your list that I made. If you choose to ignore that and run with what you want those ships to be, that's fine. But don't try to pawn it off as sourced.
As far as the Nebula, it needs 4/4 weapons but then it wouldn't be a Sci ship anymore. It looks like Cryptic went out of their way to make the Iconic TV show main ships gimped.
Be nice if it had a single Hanger Bay too, as ships could launch from the top of the Module.
It looks like all ships mostly follow the same layout structure:
1x Cmdr., 1x Lt. Cmdr., 2x Lt., 1x Ensign
Preferred Fleet/Retrofit "Intrepid" B. Layout:
Cmdr. Science (4)
Lt. Cmdr. Universal (3)
Lt. Tactical (2)
Lt. Engineering (2)
Ensign Universal (1)
Or create a ZEN Bridge Officer Station Refit for ANY ship, allowing us to change any ships Bridge Officer layout to the standard 1x Cmdr., 1x Lt. Cmdr., 2x Lt., 1x Ensign, but the Cmdr slot must be Tac, Eng, or Sci depending on the ship type.
Other Sci ships with ok/same layouts:
Mirror / Reconnaissance Science Vessel (More Tac then Intrepid)
Mirror Universe Deep Space Science Vessel (equal to the ZEN ong Range Science Vessel Refit)
"The Borg - party-poopers of the galaxy" ~ The Doctor
you know i was really bummed that was never a console for either version even if it was not that great. and the charge up is the voice of the doctor proclaiming to fire the photonic cannon!!
You know, seeing the Gal-X on your signature makes me think of something they should add. Even if it was like a vet-only reward: an Ambassador skin for the Gal-X. *foams at mouth*
"The Borg - party-poopers of the galaxy" ~ The Doctor
"The Borg - party-poopers of the galaxy" ~ The Doctor
The excel did do broadside assaults against the defiant during the coup in DS9. But the excel wasn't moving quickly.
Remember, in this game, torpedoes arent that powerful, but in canon they are weapon of choice against heavier ships or slow moving targets. Beams for precision fire situations.
Our escorts have either 4/3 or 5/2 weapon setups, typically.
Cruisers have 4/4 (and, on occasion, 5/3 with battlecruisers).
Science ships could have more rear firing slots than forward firing, so a setup like 3/5. This could allow them to specialize a bit more as minelayers, or allow kiting tactics where you face your backside at the enemy and fire away.
This. I have been toying with this idea too.
- Judge Aaron Satie
:eek:
I need to go offline, there is to much turn-on for me on this board...:D
except all the good science abilites are front arc....and you cant really have more than 3 mines on a ship lol
Also, every c-store and fleet ship that has an Ensign BOFF station but doesn't have a Unii BOFF station should be converted to a Uni Ensign. This would make most of the ships significantly more flexible. In some cases this might be too much flexibility (a fleet Defiant with 2/1 engi or sci would be delicious), but when you look at the seating on the basic Romulan ships any kind of specialty argument is gone.
Battle cloak is not special enough? :eek:
COM sci
LTC tac
LT eng
LT uni
ENS uni
thats a setup that fits the ship from the show
[PICARD]Make it so Cryptic![/PICARD]
I think a simple tweak like this could really offer a change the way you would play the LRSV, especially when moving the console up to its Fleet upgraded version; though the BOff Station proposal sounds good too.
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=emonydaxromintrepid_0
Note, under the Desc & Notes tab there is a section that lists most features, skills and stats.
Edit: didn't take her out on a STF run yet, so no clue on what the DPS numbers are..