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Forums > Home› Ten Forward

V'ger vs the Death Star

jumpingjsjumpingjs Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited November 2013 in Ten Forward
V'ger.


Simple really ...
Hopefully I'll come back from my break; this break is fun; I play intellectual games.

I hope STO get's better ...
Post edited by jumpingjs on
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Comments

  • steamwrightsteamwright Member Posts: 2,820
    edited October 2013
    That's a Bambi vs. Godzilla moment right there.

    A possible better matchup would be the Doomsday machine or the Whale-lovin' Probe.

    But for jollies I'd pit the Death Star against Khan, in the Reliant, with the Genesis torpedo. Who needs a ventilation shaft? Though he'd probably run the trench just for fun.
  • raventomoeraventomoe Member Posts: 723 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Whatever you guys are smokin...I know someone who wants some so you can send it to me.

    Better thought...

    The ENTIRE cast of the Super Robot Wars games versus the entire Borg Fleet...
    "The Multiverse, the ultimate frontier..."
    Thus begins...Lyrical Trek
  • turbomagnusturbomagnus Member Posts: 3,479 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I'd go with V'ger - Death Star had to close in on Yavin IV to fire, V'ger has that nanite cloud or whatever surrounding it (the one that got cut from "Eighty-two AUs" to just "Eight-point-Two AUs" when they released the special edition DVDs) or however it absorbs things like the Epsilon Monitoring Station and a long-range plasma torpedo or whatever it was that took out three K'Tingas...
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
    ^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Can you quantify the yield on the nanite cloud?

    Death Star I superlaser minimum yield for a planet-busting shot = 1 x 10^38 Joules, roughly the amount of energy produced by the Sun in 8,000 years. As for having to close on Yavin IV, that's because they came out of hyperspace on the opposite side of the planet from their target.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • westx211westx211 Member Posts: 42,338 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    The death star would easily destroy Vger as Vger has no small fighters to exploit the death stars one weakness.
    Men are not punished for their sins, but by them.
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    The Enterprise can take on the Death Star
    GwaoHAD.png
  • turbomagnusturbomagnus Member Posts: 3,479 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I can't for two reasons;

    1. I'm not sure it was actually nanites, it was never really explained in the movie, hence the "or whatever" part.

    2. It was never really explained in the movie what the cloud surrounding V'ger's ship was.

    3. The power output is all well and good, but "What's the superlaser's range?" is part of what I'm getting at.
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
    ^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    turbomagnus wrote: »
    3. The power output is all well and good, but "What's the superlaser's range?" is part of what I'm getting at.

    Lower limit, six planetary diameters for destroying Alderaan (from the ANH novelization). Assuming it has the same diameter as Earth, about 76,000 kilometers.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • deltabossvadeltabossva Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    neoakiraii wrote: »
    The Enterprise can take on the Death Star
    (might be necroing a thread here , but i must reply)

    As much as i like the enterprise , i'm fairly certain that none of them could defeat the deathstar.

    Death star specs. http://www.galacticempiredatabank.com/DeathStar.html

    Enterprise alone would have little chance.
    Enterprise has a few shuttle craft , the death star has thousands of fighters.

    The death star has thousands of weapons including it's planet killer. Even if enterprise over charged its phaser banks , there's still a very high chance that it would not survive the battle.
  • centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    deltabossva wrote: »
    (might be necroing a thread here , but i must reply)

    As much as i like the enterprise , i'm fairly certain that none of them could defeat the deathstar.

    Death star specs. http://www.galacticempiredatabank.com/DeathStar.html

    Enterprise alone would have little chance.
    Enterprise has a few shuttle craft , the death star has thousands of fighters.

    The death star has thousands of weapons including it's planet killer. Even if enterprise over charged its phaser banks , there's still a very high chance that it would not survive the battle.

    The Enterprises shuttlecraft have very thick shielding. The Death Stars fighters have none at all......


    Also, the most important part of Star Trek vs. Star Wars that everyone seems to neglect; Star Trek ships can do battle at warp speeds. Star Wars vessels cannot. :D
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    centersolace wrote: »
    The Enterprises shuttlecraft have very thick shielding. The Death Stars fighters have none at all......
    The issue is not whether a shuttle or runabout can handle a TIE fighter one-on-one. In a straight fight I'd bet on the runabout.

    But this isn't a straight fight. The ANH novelization (movie-level canon per Lucasfilm policy) describes sensor jamming so intense it actually distorted spacetime. Starfleet would have to go in on manual control, with visual navigation, and Starfleet crew are rarely capable of doing anything manually.

    Another problem is ordnance turning circles. Based on film analysis Luke's proton torpedoes pulled off a 90 degree turn inside a turning circle of one meter in less than a second. Photon torps, even microtorpedoes, have never demonstrated anything even close to that level of agility.

    And there's always sheer numbers. The Death Star carries 7,000 basic TIEs alone.

    Also, the most important part of Star Trek vs. Star Wars that everyone seems to neglect; Star Trek ships can do battle at warp speeds. Star Wars vessels cannot. :D
    Issue 1: Targeting. Star Trek ships have shown problems locking onto relatively slow and predictable targets, never mind something you're approaching at FTL speeds.

    Issue 2: Time on target. Star Trek ships have never once engaged anything that isn't in visual range. The target wouldn't be in range for long enough for the human brain to even perceive.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • cptjhuntercptjhunter Member Posts: 2,288 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Ultimate one shot Vs. Ultimate one shot. V'ger wins. Death Star couldn't scan the Nanite cloud to target V'ger's weak spot.Vader using the force to find it would most likely mess him up worse than Spock was when he tried to mind meld with V'ger.
  • jumpingjsjumpingjs Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    V'ger.


    Why?

    Star Trek ... and it has shields to reflect the TRIBBLE light emanating from a TRIBBLE spheroid.
    Hopefully I'll come back from my break; this break is fun; I play intellectual games.

    I hope STO get's better ...
  • pulserazorpulserazor Member Posts: 590 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Send a bald chick and a youngster with a frail ego to the deathstar to make sweet love and see how that works out for you.


    Death Star > All.
  • centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    starswordc wrote: »
    The issue is not whether a shuttle or runabout can handle a TIE fighter one-on-one. In a straight fight I'd bet on the runabout.

    But this isn't a straight fight. The ANH novelization (movie-level canon per Lucasfilm policy) describes sensor jamming so intense it actually distorted spacetime. Starfleet would have to go in on manual control, with visual navigation, and Starfleet crew are rarely capable of doing anything manually.

    Another problem is ordnance turning circles. Based on film analysis Luke's proton torpedoes pulled off a 90 degree turn inside a turning circle of one meter in less than a second. Photon torps, even microtorpedoes, have never demonstrated anything even close to that level of agility.

    And there's always sheer numbers. The Death Star carries 7,000 basic TIEs alone.



    Issue 1: Targeting. Star Trek ships have shown problems locking onto relatively slow and predictable targets, never mind something you're approaching at FTL speeds.

    Issue 2: Time on target. Star Trek ships have never once engaged anything that isn't in visual range. The target wouldn't be in range for long enough for the human brain to even perceive.

    You think in such 2 dimensional terms. Star Wars vessels would be vulnerable every time they even tried to go lightspeed. Cloaking technology is also very common in the Star Trek verse, not so much in Star Wars.

    Also, Trek has the phase cloak. Star Wars has nothing, and no countermeasures against something like that.
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    centersolace wrote: »
    Star Wars vessels would be vulnerable every time they even tried to go lightspeed.
    Evidence?
    Cloaking technology is also very common in the Star Trek verse, not so much in Star Wars.

    No, but it's common enough that there are specific, albeit rare, sensors designed to detect cloaked ships. The CGT array detects a cloaked vessel's actual mass by <technobabble>. A cloaked ship is still physically present so it can't hide.

    Also, the most commonly seen cloaked ships are Romulan, which use artificial black holes for power generation. They're even easier to detect by their mass shadow.
    Also, Trek has the phase cloak. Star Wars has nothing, and no countermeasures against something like that.

    Like the Genesis device, another one-off experiment that was never duplicated.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • f9thaceshighf9thaceshigh Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    let me just point out the obvious here, lasers are limited by light speed, that means that the Enterprise merely has to sit a few light seconds out to dodge the superlaser's beam, it's a planetary weapon, the only reason it worked against the rebel fleet in RotJ is because it caught them by surprise, it doesn't even have to be the Enterprise to beat that.
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    f9thaceshigh wrote: »
    let me just point out the obvious here, lasers are limited by light speed, that means that the Enterprise merely has to sit a few light seconds out to dodge the superlaser's beam, it's a planetary weapon, the only reason it worked against the rebel fleet in RotJ is because it caught them by surprise, it doesn't even have to be the Enterprise to beat that.

    They don't need the superlaser to destroy the Enterprise. You're forgetting that the DS1 is covered in heavy turbolaser emplacements as well. That's the whole reason they had to go with a fighter attack in the first place: The DS1 was designed to repel an attack by capital ships.

    And it's fine to dodge their fire because TLs (which are not lasers, by the way, they're plasma casters that use a laser to apply energy to a gas) move slower than light anyway, but how do you respond to that? I have yet to see any instance where a Star Trek ship attacked a target that wasn't in naked eyeball range, never mind one light-seconds away.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    starswordc wrote: »
    Evidence?



    No, but it's common enough that there are specific, albeit rare, sensors designed to detect cloaked ships. The CGT array detects a cloaked vessel's actual mass by <technobabble>. A cloaked ship is still physically present so it can't hide.

    Also, the most commonly seen cloaked ships are Romulan, which use artificial black holes for power generation. They're even easier to detect by their mass shadow.



    Like the Genesis device, another one-off experiment that was never duplicated.

    You really think they don't have the plans somewhere?????? :rolleyes:
  • westx211westx211 Member Posts: 42,338 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    The emperor would like to point out that my siblings death star also has man MANY tractor beams which could also be used in battle. Oh mister enterprise thinks it can dodge mega laser? TRACTOR BEAM THEN FIRE!!!!!!!
    Men are not punished for their sins, but by them.
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    westx211 wrote: »
    The emperor would like to point out that my siblings death star also has man MANY tractor beams which could also be used in battle. Oh mister enterprise thinks it can dodge mega laser? TRACTOR BEAM THEN FIRE!!!!!!!

    Not to mention that the DS1's work at extreme ranges. They had the Falcon in an inexorable grip before her sensors could even work out that it wasn't a moon they were looking at.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • xanchaxancha Member Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Captain James T. Kirk

    Nuff Said
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I love threads like this. Brings me back to 1990's message board nostalgia.

    V'Ger wins by turning the entire Death Star into a datastream to learn what it is, btw. :D
    ExtxpTp.jpg
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,966 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    iconians wrote: »
    I love threads like this. Brings me back to 1990's message board nostalgia.
    If you still enjoy that, try StarDestroyer.net, which grew out of alt.starwars.vs.startrek. That's where I learned to debate sci-fi. Main site hasn't been updated for almost a decade but the forums are still busy. I reposted the Dominion v. Borg thread we had here a month ago over there.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • cptjhuntercptjhunter Member Posts: 2,288 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    pulserazor wrote: »
    Send a bald chick and a youngster with a frail ego to the deathstar to make sweet love and see how that works out for you.


    Death Star > All.

    I would do better to send a pack of angry teenagers, an over cautious lobster, some muppets, and either a farm boy, or a malt liquor spokesmen.:D
  • solidshatnersolidshatner Member Posts: 390 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    "Mr. Data - I want you to rig one of our torpedoes with a timer . . . in fact, get Chief O'Brien and Mr LaForge to set 50 of our torpedoes with timers. Beam one to this . . . "Emperor's" thrown room and spread the rest out in the weakest locations within this sphere. Understood?"

    "Aye sir"

    "Good. Make it so!"

    END OF THREAD

    lol
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • westx211westx211 Member Posts: 42,338 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    The death star has shields too you know solid otherwise the capital ships could have just blasted it away so no teleporting torpedoes directly into it. In addition due to the size of the enterprise d the death star would most likely have no trouble blasting it away by the time it got into transporter range.
    Men are not punished for their sins, but by them.
  • wolfexile1wolfexile1 Member Posts: 63 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Death star is a mega super weapon/Super mega space station.

    Literally clouds of fighters, Hundreds of high powered weapons, Etc etc.

    And if the fighters weapons don't touch the shields, Kamikaze.
  • cptjhuntercptjhunter Member Posts: 2,288 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Yes! I feel the Nerdrage swelling! When the outright trolling starts..the jouney to the darkside will be complete!!!!!;)
  • wolfexile1wolfexile1 Member Posts: 63 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    cptjhunter wrote: »
    Yes! I feel the Nerdrage swelling! When the outright trolling starts..the jouney to the darkside will be complete!!!!!;)

    no your stupid death star wins by shooting v'garr with a single light laser cannon v'garr is stupid and lame ididnt even hear about the v'garr and i already know that its stupid and dies instantli.
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