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Tier IV Dyson Rep is OP
macronius
Member Posts: 2,526
Maybe I am overreacting but I think Tier IV ... especially the tac one is OP. Definitely can see it making alpha strikes even more outrageously devastating.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
- Judge Aaron Satie
- Judge Aaron Satie
Post edited by macronius on
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-Edit- Didn't realize it was only 15, that's the same as a weak attack pattern.
Harden up Princess
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The defensive one looks amazing...then again I don't room for any engineer consoles, so perhaps I'm biased
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Definitely needs some attention from the devs.
- Judge Aaron Satie
LTS, here since...when did this game launch again?
The +75 does look nice, but it also has the stacking penalty on it, so more usefull for tacs with few res. consoles.
It would be good for those who like to maintain low health for GDF too
Harden up Princess
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Is this -15 player-based, or team-based? If it's player based, then sure, probably won't be so bad depending on how things go. At most that is only -15 per player that is shooting at something, and while it is there, might not break things too much.
If it's team-based (which I worry about), then that brings up a secondary question of, 'does it stack'? Should it be team-based, that means potentially up to -75 resist on a player. Sure if they took the defensive option, then they are no worse off than they are now; but if they didn't, that -75 is nothing small anymore, and is a very potent force multiplier if you are shooting something that is weakened.
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And the tac one, it makes the target most vulnerable when they're about to die anyways, so really wouldn't that only make much of a difference for pushing a finishing blow over the top, or tagging people that run the defensive ability plus GDF. Maybe I'm missing something but it seems like the real use is only for PVP where targets heal up and mostly irrelevant elsewhere?
first off cryptic stated that these modifiers will be added OUTSIDE of the normal resistance and wont suffer from conventional DR
second this ability performs completely differently depending where you are using it: pve/pvp
and finally lets look at in a bit of detail from those perspectives:
offensive-
maxs out at -15 resistance and this is important to note that this ISNT a percentage value
defensive-
this maxes out at +75 resistance which again should note THIS ISNT PERCENTAGE!
PVE application offensive
due to increaseing of beta spam possible and the promise that it wont suffer from DR this is an attractive ability and will increase dps quite some way.
PVE application defensive
this will go along way to keeping you alive when you have your GDF as again no DR combined with your gdf bonus (if tac) and armour consoles and captian skills will make killing you much much harder, it will however make getting GDF that little bit harder proportionality and all top end dps players (the 40k+) getting a good GDF is crutial so its ability to maintain a GDF once achieved will be offset buy the increased difficulty to achieve it, over all taking this will increase survivability and dps for weaker players but not so much experianced players, so inessance going a small way to close the gap of perceieved ability in playerbase.
PVP APPLICATION offensive-
do to the increased bleedthrough damage that the powercreep is presenting alot of the "skill" has been gradually whittled away from pvp and at first glance this ability only appears to make things worse however look closely and with the knowlegde that it doesnt suffer from DR this ability will make sure squishy aggresive escorts are squishyier if taken. WITHOUT INCREASEING THIER DPS against defensive targets like healers.
PVP APPLICATION defensive
ok so if a damage dealer takes this ability you might think them mad but actually from a pvp perspective its really the only option as it doesnt suffer from DR and like the offensive bonuse scales with hp you can see doing a simple bit of maths that from a pvp standpoint this ability is either defence creep or a balanceing agent to counter power creep from the offinsive side of this same ability
offensive abilty stacks in 15 times table there are 5 men to a team
15 30 45 60 75
you can see that if you take this for pvp you will offset the entire team even if they all took the offensive bonus and all focus you
IF ONE single person took the defensive bonus on the other team then they only have a maximum of 60 they can debuff you by so you net gain 15 resistance, knowing that shows that there really isnt any need to take the offensive version of this other that in the attempt to offset some of the defensive bonus they might have taken
in short
PVE= take offensive
PVP= take defensive
if you do both take defensive (unless your a specific vaper style then take offensive)
that is all hope that was clear.
side not i think this is a good ability that has alot of discrete balancing properties and i only wish cryptic/PWE did things like this more often.
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Even then, -15 is a drop in the ocean to the types of resists than some people can stack, and especially to those who will be picking the other tier IV passive.
You guys should have seen what the tac passive used to be on tribble: Instead of 0-15 damage resist debuff, it was 0-25% damage buff, with no 50% health limit.
- Judge Aaron Satie
Only on the T1 / T2 choice. The scaling one is affected by the regular DR curve (Per Gorn I believe it was, going to go hunt down the quote...).
Found it:
Of note, item 4 was the change to make the scaling damage resist debuff what it is now.
Actually, the diminishing returns on damage resists in STO aren't that bad.
You have to remember, that 5% additional resist can have vastly different effectiveness, depending on whether they're added on top of a 0%, 45% or 90% baseline.
If you calculate the numbers for the damage you'll receive (damage received=100% - damage mitigated) and then do a relative comparison (how many % of damage received is gone when adding each successive resist console), you'll see that there are some diminishing returns, but the decrease in effectiveness is surprisingly small.
To give an example: Going from 0% to 10% mitigation only results in 10% less damage taken. Going from 30% to 36,3% mitigation, also results about 10% (actually 9,89%) less damage taken. In a way you can say that both are similarly efficient, as one effect (reduce received damage by 10%) is the same in both cases.
On the other hand, that if every console gave a fixed percentage of mitigation, it would be growing returns, as every console beyond the first was becoming more and more effective.
The ultimate question here is "what do you want?" (Or is it "Who are you?"
That's what I do already. It's no good on escorts or birds of prey because by the time your shields are down, you're dead. But on my fleet regent that can take it right on the chin on my hull and keep on going I'll wait until I just barely dip to 48-49% and immeditely go down fighting/transfer shield strength/tac team/auxiliry2struc/EmPtW/Bfaw/AttpnAlpha and omega/tactical fleet ect. and I'll just scorch whatever enemies are in my path.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Wish we had a queue where you could turn off all the TRIBBLE and have your gear level adjusted to MK XI purple or something with 0 set bonuses.
- Judge Aaron Satie
you are correct. But no matter what wether it be because of gear, powers or passives, PvP will never see balance. That would require a retooling of the ENTIRE game. Consoles, Powers, Passives, Ships, Sets, Weapons and literally EVERYTHING else. After all that, unless they extremely carefully looked at EVERY POSSIBLE INTERACTION this would still end up unbalanced. And that would take them months of work, and at the end of it all people would still complain.
Cause guess nobodies ever happy with what they get. So they nerf everything into Oblivion until so many things have been nerfed that the original item is back to be OP but at 1/2 strength.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
So far if anything this ability sounds weak, sure -15 damage resistance is like an extra APB1 on your target, but its only going to get -15 near death as I understand it. A -5 or 6 resistance is nothing. That being said both romulan and omega tier 4 passives are weak, so I can't really complain about this one being inline with them. All this is speculation of course, will test it more in 4 or 5 days when i unlock it.
Seriously a borg cube wont complain about your use of the tier 4 passive.
Seriously im mind buckled about 99% of the player base kirking it up against senseless npcs they find hard on elite and call stuff like this OP lol.
Cryptic is giving new OP toys for a reason are they? Obviously they do it for players like you.
Or are you competing with your fellow teammates on whoever does the most damage against a borg cube? lolol
explain, there is absolutely no goal or incentive to do this.
Oh and something else, how can it be OP if the direct 'counter' is equally strong?
And fyi the tier 2 resistance passive is probably alt better then the 10% severity a offensive tac gets. It roughly equals 1% flat dmg boost on a ROMULAN, even less on a fed.
The +5 flat hull res is alot more bang for buck is my feeling. Even if its almost impossible to calculate.
Mainline PvE'ers aren't complaining, maybe PvP Dabblers that primarily PvE. But if in fact PvE players are crying OP its because someone is doing better/ dying less than them and they are jealous little children.
Though in the defense of PvE'ers when you aske for something to be nerfed or cry out OP, certain things we put a lot off effort into building, get junked overnight.
Now i understand something being ludicrously OP shoulds be toned down. But they should seperate power functions in PvE and PvP. Cause im sorry but im tired of my builds getting sharted upon because something new came out and added something that breaks the way the mechanics where supposed to work.
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Attack pattern beta is far more powerful than this ability and spammable to such an extent that it has rendered all PvE content pointless.
Beams are laughably out performing every other weapon type due to drain mechanics.
Torpedoes are mostly a gimmick.
FAW and it's double procs with dem etc leading to maybe more procs on things than there really should be.
Anyone else want to add to the list of way bigger problems? So let's just give it 3 weeks when people will have it and be able to test it?
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Nah. It will finally give an engineer like a 'Go Down Fighting' kinda ability. Want!
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Straight resistance. So basically this passive at max power is like a weak disruptor proc.
/thread I'd say...
Defense definitely tastier for the ones full of universal consoles
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Aka most Scimitars.