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New leg models
frtoaster
Member Posts: 3,352 Arc User
Here is my feedback on the new leg models introduced in Season 8. Although the new female calves look better with skirts and tight pants, the increased thickness of the thighs for tight pants makes them look unproportional in comparison to the calves. (Note that thighs for loose pants were made thicker as well.) Furthermore, the thighs for TOS skirts look thicker from the front and back than from the sides.
Tight pants
The female thighs for tight pants look overly muscular in comparison to the calves.
Andorian female: Tight pants
Front, Back, Left, Right
Similar problems can be seen with the new male thighs. The male thighs look too thick from the front and back, though they look all right from the sides. Notice how the quadriceps appear to bulge out when the character is viewed from the back.
Andorian male: Tight pants
Front, Back, Left, Right
TOS skirts
Here "TOS skirt" means the TOS Split Skirt or TOS Nurse Skirt. The thighs for TOS skirts are thinner from the sides like the thighs for other skirts, but they are the thicker from the front and back like the thighs for tight pants and loose pants. The result is that the thighs for TOS skirts look thicker from the front and back than from the sides.
Andorian female: TOS Split Skirt
Front, Back, Left, Right
Andorian female: TOS Nurse Skirt
Front, Back, Left, Right
There are a few other issues with the TOS skirts:
Other changes
Other changes to the lower body may affect the appearance of the legs. The following changes were introduced in Season 8:
Tight pants
The female thighs for tight pants look overly muscular in comparison to the calves.
Andorian female: Tight pants
Front, Back, Left, Right
Similar problems can be seen with the new male thighs. The male thighs look too thick from the front and back, though they look all right from the sides. Notice how the quadriceps appear to bulge out when the character is viewed from the back.
Andorian male: Tight pants
Front, Back, Left, Right
TOS skirts
Here "TOS skirt" means the TOS Split Skirt or TOS Nurse Skirt. The thighs for TOS skirts are thinner from the sides like the thighs for other skirts, but they are the thicker from the front and back like the thighs for tight pants and loose pants. The result is that the thighs for TOS skirts look thicker from the front and back than from the sides.
Andorian female: TOS Split Skirt
Front, Back, Left, Right
Andorian female: TOS Nurse Skirt
Front, Back, Left, Right
There are a few other issues with the TOS skirts:
- When the TOS Split Skirt is used with certain tops, there is a gap in the seam between the top and bottom of the outfit. (Cryptic is already aware of this issue.)
- The TOS Split Skirt now has a split in front of the left leg.
- The TOS skirts now flare outward making the fabric appear too stiff. The outward flare can be seen in this picture.
Other changes
Other changes to the lower body may affect the appearance of the legs. The following changes were introduced in Season 8:
- wider hips and waist on females,
- narrower hips and wider waist on males,
- new skin textures for female legs.
Waiting for a programmer ...
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
At least it is good that their legs (partially) are less thin.
The bodybuilders with thin stick legs before was odd.
Male hips were actually made narrower, and female hips wider.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
I know, but they should have done the opposite.
Males can already have wide enough hips IMO, I honestly don't think making them bigger would be that good of an improvement.
The legs with skirts unfortunately have to bee skinny from the sides so they don't clip with the skirts when walking, running, etc. They're about the same width from they side as they've always been, but from the front and back they now appear more natural.
Clipping at the waist is a known bug. It will be fixed soon.
Examples of boots clipping would be much appreciated.
I'm sorry, but I already had to put hips to as little as possible on the previous builds.
I'll just have to put this down to the character finding her way to an abandoned cach of chocolate....
What do you have against women who eat every so often? :P
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I prefer the opposite myself, hips always felt *too* narrow to me, but I would prefer wider hips (or more narrow hips, I suppose) as an option, like part of an extended hip slider or such.
The apparent narrowness or wideness of hips, however, will likely vary depending on your other slider settings...such as if you have a smaller torso, hips will always look a bit wider, and vice versa.
Maybe you guys should consider using cloth physics for skirts by way of PhysX?
Seeing as how STO is built on the PhysX libraries.
I mean that way you would be able to use proper body models without clipping issues.
If performance is an issue, then perhaps a toggle, that automatically replaces the hard mesh skirts with cloth simulated skirt for those who have chosen to enable that option?
Some skirts do. Well... the sashes do.
I think the PhysX in place has a constant wind effect or something. You see this with sashes and capes. They'd never be able to sit down or crouch without their skirt blowing up around their neck.
Now, maybe you like that but if that's the effect you want, but if so, I'd keep lobbying for bikinis. There are women who play the game. Heck, while I go for a certain amount of eye candy with my crews, I go for a pretty balanced gender and body type mix and not every character I put in a skirt is meant to be sexy
Now, males could use it as well.
And finally, same adjustments could be avialable for upper body. So upper part could match the lower part.
Basically, what STO needs is more slider scales. As it is for now, it's hard to make bulky male/female with proportional body. Or curvy female. Or heavy-built male without stick arms and legs.
But it's probably a lot of work, seeing as adjusting body sliders will cause clipping with hips/chest costumes. Romulan republic uniform jackets are already ruined by undershirt clipping through at anything but the lowest possible torso/arms bulk.
The point I was trying to make about the TOS skirts is that they have different thighs than the other skirts. From the sides, the thighs of TOS skirts are thin like those of other skirts, but from the front and back, they are thick like those of tight pants. You can see this in the screenshots below.
Andorian female: TOS Nurse Skirt
Front, Back, Left, Right
Andorian female: Antares Skirt
Front, Back, Left, Right
Andorian female: Tight pants
Front, Back, Left, Right
It seems to me that you have two thigh models: one for tight pants and one for regular skirts. For each of these models, the front, back, and sides of the thighs seem to be designed to go together. But the thigh model for TOS skirts seems to be a weird mix of the two. To me, this looks like a mistake or a bug.
This. Plus the facial texture changes...so unneccessary. Truly.
they did because of this(the legs that is, the facial texture looking bad is a bug).
and they're right, crypticjoejing even acknowledged it
Really there are essentially three leg models for bare legs. 1. completely normal seamless set mainly for Orion females wearing loin cloths instead of skirts. 2. One set of legs for *very* short skirts or split front and back skirts. These are almost normal as they don't have to fight with the skirts much, but they still have adjustments to minimize clipping. 3. One set for longer skirts. These are still the most dramatically altered - most noticeably from the sides and the front, the further up the thigh.
It's often a bit of a compromise to give you guys lots of interchangeable options,
minimize clipping, and still look decent. And sometimes we reach a point where it's one or the other.
senatorvreenak - Other physics or cloth sims aren't that practical at this stage for STO. That's talking hella major rework for all of the existing assets. Not to mention it doesn't quite just plug in and work. *Lots* of R&D - in fact we went through it for Neverwinter and after all the effort ended up with only a moderately improved system.
That said, we're always looking to improve things, tho we have to pick and choose the battles and decide when and what to hit next.
And thanks phoenicius for reposting why we took this on.
Split midriff on All Good Things Top + Split Skirt
http://sdrv.ms/173cf3d
I hope this will be fixed as it was before.
Speaking of changes, the Split Skirt (I think it's called) now has a huge split in it.
Kudos for the explaining part. I always appreciate it when stuff like this gets an elaboration.
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
Yup...and yup.
Ah, that is interesting. I take it that the TOS Nurse Skirt and TOS Split Skirt, as very short skirts, belong to category 2. I'm curious what is meant by "split front and back skirts" though.
I do think the thighs for TOS skirts could use another pass, after you've dealt with more pressing concerns like the clipping and reversions. I find it a bit odd for thighs to be thicker from the front and back than from the sides.
I look forward to this fix, then I shall be able to make more than tolerance edits to my character.
He's a real people-pleaser!
This is the route usually taken because it avoids things like plastic skirts (rigid frames that have to flare outwards to prevent clipping), full cloth physics (expensive to calculate, which raises the minimum standard - undesirable in an MMO setting), or UV/texture maps on side splits instead of front & back splits (a LOT more noticable).
The biggest problem area of skirts is the area between the legs.
I described it in another post, but quick summary, legs are separate solid entities for the most part. But a skirt usually wraps around and has to stretch when the legs take a wide stance or stride while walking and running. It is *extremely* difficult to avoid clipping, especially the longer the skirt is.
Something that hasn't been leveraged as much in STO, due to matching IP uniforms, is split front skirts along these lines: http://images.asos-media.com/inv/media/2/5/3/4/2674352/image4xl.jpg
And basically if the split up the middle is high enough, it makes "skinning" the skirt *much* easier as you don't have to worry about the middle stretching and clipping as the legs animate.
We used them more on Neverwinter. But again, we weren't trying to match costumes exactly from an established show or movie.
That leg geo we're referring to is good for short skirts and split skirts.