After watching the Omega episode of Voyager, this is the behavior that I expect from Starfleet regarding Omega particles.
Do you guys remember how in the episode Voyager's operations became militaristic when the ship detected an Omega particle, even so far as disregarding the Prime Directive if necessary?
Guys the Omega Directive was established for a reason. You think what the romulans were messing with which destroyed the Hobus star was bad.
Omega particles make that look like childs play compared to it's destructive force. Sorry Omega protocol was established for a reason.
Actually if you go by the game "Star Trek: Legacy" it was Kirk himself who helped create the Omega Directive.
Sorry that's one directive I am in FIRM agreement. Hell think back to the Worf Special episode. When it's mentioned there to the Captain of the Enterprise, look at EVERYBODY'S face. Even the Klingon officer's mood suddenly shifts.
Every space faring faction in this game I'm willing to bet has a directive that is pretty much the same as Starfleets.
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I posted this in another thread, but since it's relevant here too:
Other issues notwithstanding, the aspect I don't like here is that Starfleet etc seem to have appointed themselves as some kind of intergalactic Police. I mean, I know how dangerous Omega is presented as being, dangerous - and the sphere contains LOTS of them - but since when did Starfleet and co get to dictate what happens in another quadrant of the galaxy, in/on a Dyson Sphere that doesn't belong to them?
Since omega was discovered there according to stuff when omega is discovered ALL of standing orders and rules are ignored with the sole purpose of neutralizing omega even the prime directive is ignored because that's how important Starfleet finds it.
I guess some simply cannot grasp what a Omega Incident really would mean...
It's not your simple garden variety WMD... it does not simply kill "a bunch of people in a great but still limited range"...
It destroys Subspace!
NO Communication, NO Travel, NOTHING... Everyone would be reduced to Interplanetary Travel AT BEST!
It's not one country's survival that is at stake, it is the whole galaxy that currently is on the edge of becoming a cute little, green headed lemming... uncountable lifeforms on the edge of mass extinction...
And yet, we ONLY know what happens when ONE Molecule gives us the Finger.
There is no telling what would happen if there is a ******n chain reaction, it literally could rip the whole Space-Time Continuum apart and end all life here and now in our Galaxy and if it is really REALLY Bad it could end the whole universe, think of it as... we're the fuel for a nice Big Bang, having our own atoms spread throughout a new universe...
I think that is the same problem with people being completely unable to even grasp the sheer size of our own stellar neighbourhood.
And while I agree that it would have been nice to get at least one message stating that the Voth do no talk to Vermin but I am in full agreement with standing Starfleet Orders regarding Omega and I am not even in Section 31...
"The federation is not perfect but the KDF is corrupt to its core and the Romulans are full of backstabbers..."
well somebody has been drinking the koolaids...
Starfleet and the UFP are just as flawed as the others, as has been proven through the IP from time to time.
Only the Iconic Heroes of the federation have been less flawed and kept to a higher moral footing, but even then some have done things that are heavily flawed.
As to the Voth situation, they are a xenophobic semireligiuos state that see all others as beneath them. Its no wonder negotiations failed.
Aside from the lengthy discussion of the Omega Directive here, it's important to emphasize just how xenophobic the Voth are. I rewatched "Distant Origin" the other day, and at the end, the Voth basically tell Chakotay and Voyager to scram and never come back, the implication being if they ever see them again, it'll be bad. As for Cryptic not showing the diplomatic attempts, I'm guessing that was just lazy content design, as opposed to some intentional imperialistic message. I for one am actually kind of happy they left so much to assumption and background. It's already giving me some cool ideas for Foundry stories. For me, the Voth are cool villains because they represent the dangers of a willfully scientifically ignorant civilization. Following that logic, do you really think they wouldn't use the Omega in some harebrained plot to prevent more heretics to come through Iconian gateways to their precious Delta Quadrant? It seems perfectly conceivable that they would detonate an omega molecule specifically to shut down warp travel. They have already demonstrated that even transwarp travel was abominable in their view. Imagine how they'd feel about instantaneous travel, and how the new arrivals threaten everything in their Doctrine. This conflict makes perfect sense story wise.
"Be humble for you are made of earth; be noble for you are made of stars."
Do you guys remember how in the episode Voyager's operations became militaristic when the ship detected an Omega particle, even so far as disregarding the Prime Directive if necessary?
Voyager's operations become militaristic when Janeway gets up on the wrong side of the bed. I do not consider her actions valid proof of anything except her own psychopathy (or VOY's abominably inconsistent writing, take your pick). And I consider her promotion to admiral instead of court-martial proof that there's something in the water at Starfleet Command that makes flag officers lose their minds.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
What do you think?
Have I gone pants on head insane?
Have we all accidentally gone to the Mirror Universe and are ignoring the goatees?
Or is Starfleet just becoming evil and desperate?
To be completely frank, and I mean this with no malice intended, while you have not gone pants-on-head insane, you are adhering to specific precepts of Starfleet and the Federation that are simply unworkable in a universe that works by the law of the jungle. This is because canon Star Trek, when it tried to stick with them, often used what amounted to straw men to get the point across. Note that this does not encompass all Star Trek, and I believe there are many episodes that deal with interesting moral issues in a more mature manner, but plenty of them don't, and these seem to be what a lot of Trekkies cling to.
The Voth are essentially dealing with something so dangerous, in the middle of subspace of all places, that I daresay we do not have a proper scale to comprehend, even with the nuclear arsenals currently available with our present-day technology. While I believe attempts at diplomacy are important, I would not be a bit surprised if they were tried and failed miserably. It also doesn't help that with the sudden surge of Romulan arrogance at the beginning of Season 8 ("for now," pfft), it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they somehow ended up kicking off this fight, seeing as how they're toying with potentially planet-obliterating devices months after establishing a new homeland for their broken population.
The Voth, to the best of my knowledge, flat-out state that we do not have any rights (http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Voth). Voth arrogance is supreme and I'd not be surprised if they refused to even talk to the motley crew of mostly mammals that are trying to stop them. Long story short, they are dealing with what is literally the most dangerous substance known to Federation, Klingon and Romulan science, a substance so exotic and powerful the Borg quite literally worship it. This situation also has very obvious ties to the Iconians, who are doing a horrid job of hiding their agenda of trying to enslave and/or kill everyone who is not an Iconian.
That it has come to this is regrettable, but hardly unrealistic, and to ignore what it has become in favor of preaching an obscure moral point makes for poor video gaming, poor drama, and strawman-tastic, preachy attempts at communicating morals.
I half expect flames for this, but I felt it necessary to be said, and please understand I do not hold any malice in this response. However, this is a pretty extreme set of circumstances Our Heroes find themselves in. While there are holes in the story (e.g. attempts at diplomacy failing), they don't have a lot of choice here.
Its the Omega directive there is no bloody talking, the prime directive be damned.
StarFleet has a General order to wipe out all life on a planet....but noooo this is less trek riiight.
Thank you for noting that! I was thinking of that as I composed my own post, but forgot to stick it in the final draft. Yes, Starfleet has its own wonky, genocidal and nonsensically violent bits here and there, many of which are in TOS, of all things.
Omega particles are basically an environmental issue, in that a rupture in one star system could conceivably affect star systems hundreds of light-years away. There's certainly some ambiguity in whether Starfleet should be deciding that Omega's too dangerous for anyone to mess with. But when the sphere is producing massive quantities of omega molecules, a catastrophic reaction could directly harm the Federation and its member worlds.
As for lack of negotiation, datalogs found around the battlezone make it pretty clear the Voth aren't open to that. And the repair ships aren't just rescuing survivors, they're making warships ready to fight again immediately.
Take a look at my Foundry missions! Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
Given the age and power of the Voth (able to survive in the same quadrant as the Borg heartland while maintaining their viewpoint of being the most powerful group around), I wouldn't really put it past them to actually be able to harness Omega.
And to the naysayers harping on about Doctrine being against Transwarp... look at the bloody episode. Doctrine was changed to accommodate Transwarp, or do you think the elder was permitting one form of 'heresy' while decrying another? That alone shows that Doctrine is not as all-encompassing as everyone, including Cryptic, seems to believe. If an idea is beneficial enough (ie, apparently hubless/gateless Transwarp travel), Doctrine will change.
The Voth are an elder species. What we should have done was offer to assist them (maybe just send the Gorn or Saurians to do so) with their efforts on the caveat that we know how to deal with Omega if it starts looking unstable. That way, we at least have a chance of learning something rather important, supposing they really can harness Omega, but if they don't go along with it we at least tried diplomacy. Hell, using the Gorn and/or Saurians as emissaries, we might actually be able to open true diplomacy with the Voth... just keep the damn humans away from them.
This is pretty much spot on. Between the Voth, the Romulans, Iconians, and Omega particles you can easily see how this escalated to where we are now. It would be good if we had a bit more story to this season. :P
I like how this episode is overlooked and completely ignored in the future episodes where they limit warping to certain speeds.
From episode - TNG: 7x09 - Force of Nature
Rabal, the seemingly more reasonable of the two, claims that his and Serova's research shows that warp fields are slowly damaging their region of space and that their homeworld (they are Hekarans, the inhabitants of Hekaras II) will one day be rendered uninhabitable if nothing is done to prevent the damage that they claim is being caused.
Sorry if it's not on topic. It's just something I seem to think about when warping etc.
Omega particles are basically an environmental issue, in that a rupture in one star system could conceivably affect star systems hundreds of light-years away. There's certainly some ambiguity in whether Starfleet should be deciding that Omega's too dangerous for anyone to mess with. But when the sphere is producing massive quantities of omega molecules, a catastrophic reaction could directly harm the Federation and its member worlds.
There's proof that unstable Omega particles are an environmental issue. There is no proof that stable Omega particles, such as the ones that the sphere must be producing if it still exists and subspace powers still work inside it, are an environmental issue. That's only one of the Voth city-ship-sized plot holes in this season.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
This is pretty much spot on. Between the Voth, the Romulans, Iconians, and Omega particles you can easily see how this escalated to where we are now. It would be good if we had a bit more story to this season. :P
I think that's the biggest issue:
if there's a good story behind it...that we're actually TOLD ABOUT, it goes a long way towards making the game enjoyable.:)
There's proof that unstable Omega particles are an environmental issue. There is no proof that stable Omega particles, such as the ones that the sphere must be producing if it still exists and subspace powers still work inside it, are an environmental issue.
I agree. Although what needs to be taken into account is that even Omega particles 'stable' enough to work with have been shown to not really be stable enough to be safe. Starfleet might be jumping to conclusions that the Solanae technology and Voth aren't able to safely manipulate Omega particles, but given the potential consequences, and the lack of examples of any safe use of Omega particles, the approach is understandable.
It's like if somebody built a nuclear power plant that, if it failed, would kill everything in the oceans around the world. Even if it's working fine, governments across the globe would try their best to get it shut down. Nuclear reactors have been known to melt down, and the consequences of this one doing so would be unacceptable. Now would some nations use military strikes to disable the plant, or should they? These are deeper questions posed by the situation, but they don't invalidate the premise or make it less reasonable.
Take a look at my Foundry missions! Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
Ohh look a wormhole, lets see what is o the other side.
Dominion, This is out space, get lost or else.
Starfleet, lalala we can't hear you, lets poke around.
Dominion, slap in the face, wake up morons.
Starfleet, how could they! We are harmeless explorers!
Starfleet is not the noble entity people want to believe it is. I present dialog form Undiscovered Country:
VALERIS: You have betrayed the Federation. ...All of you.
McCOY: And what do you think you've been doing?
VALERIS: Saving Starfleet. Klingons cannot be trusted. Sir, ...you said so yourself. They killed your son. Did you not wish Gorkon dead? 'Let them die.' you said. Did I misinterpret you? ...And you were right. They conspired with us to assassinate their own Chancellor. How trustworthy can they be?
McCOY: Klingons and Federation members conspiring together.
The Federation is no better that KDF or RSE, they just hypocritically preach at others.
There's proof that unstable Omega particles are an environmental issue. There is no proof that stable Omega particles, such as the ones that the sphere must be producing if it still exists and subspace powers still work inside it, are an environmental issue. That's only one of the Voth city-ship-sized plot holes in this season.
Yeah and when's the last time you heard of a stable omega particle praytell? Sorry the threat of losing all warp capability vs "oh hey lets see if we can stabilize this particle", sorry threat is simply too great. Unless you want to go back to the stone age of space exploration?
Sorry this is one time where I agree with the Omega Directive. It's simply too big of a threat. Hell even the borg are scared of it, that should tell you something.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Yeah and when's the last time you heard of a stable omega particle praytell? Sorry the threat of losing all warp capability vs "oh hey lets see if we can stabilize this particle", sorry threat is simply too great. Unless you want to go back to the stone age of space exploration?
Sorry this is one time where I agree with the Omega Directive. It's simply too big of a threat. Hell even the borg are scared of it, that should tell you something.
Did you even read what I posted, what you quoted? Let me spell it out for you.
1. Unstable Omega particles destroy subspace in a large radius when they decay.
2. Subspace destruction is directly proportional (that is to say, x increases when y increases) to the number of particles involved.
3. The sphere produces Omega particles in large amounts and has for an untold length of time (let's say hundreds of thousands of years if we go with the assumption the Iconians built it).
4. Warp still works near and inside the sphere. Boff powers that use subspace still work inside the sphere.
5. Therefore subspace has not been destroyed.
6. Therefore the Omega particles produced by the sphere must be stable. QED.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I like how this episode is overlooked and completely ignored in the future episodes where they limit warping to certain speeds.
From episode - TNG: 7x09 - Force of Nature
Sorry if it's not on topic. It's just something I seem to think about when warping etc.
I believe somewhere (I can't remember) it is stated that later generations of ships do not damage subspace - i.e. the swept design that looks aerodynamic does not harm space fabric. And ships that predate the designs must comply with the warp limit except in case of emergencies(which is usually the case in episodes)....
But to what the OP was getting at - yeah I think it is tremendously silly how the later iterations of star trek have behaved. Take Janeway for example - she threw species 8472 to the wolves to save her own - and in so doing condemned any and all future races that the Borg would conquer.
The whole Omega particle thing - I'm sure antimatter was viewed the same way at one point - "It's to dangerous!", "We shouldn't use it", "What if something goes wrong?!?" Same thing was said about nuclear. [Besides a way to safely dispose of Omega was shown in one of the episodes (graviton torpedoes or something) so just adapt it to the drive system or something.....] So for Starfleet, on more than one occasion, to say "We know what's best for everybody" does irritate me.......
Maybe the Voth do have a way to use Omega without danger(or at least the widespread devastating effects), who knows?
To argue with myself - maybe a good bloody nose with get the Voth to listen to us primitive psychotic apes....
Did you even read what I posted, what you quoted? Let me spell it out for you.
1. Unstable Omega particles destroy subspace in a large radius when they decay.
2. Subspace destruction is directly proportional (that is to say, x increases when y increases) to the number of particles involved.
3. The sphere produces Omega particles in large amounts and has for an untold length of time (let's say hundreds of thousands of years if we go with the assumption the Iconians built it).
4. Warp still works near and inside the sphere. Boff powers that use subspace still work inside the sphere.
5. Therefore subspace has not been destroyed.
6. Therefore the Omega particles produced by the sphere must be stable. QED.
But you miss one point which nobody knows. How long do they stay stable and how easy is to make them unstable.
Sorry there's simply too much that can go wrong with a particle like that. Don't you think star fleet would have already thought about this.
Sure the dyson's sphere is producing stable particles. But how do we know that it's stability isn't as weak as say water molecules that doesn't take a lot to break them apart?
You're not asking all of the questions that really need to be asked. You are just stating "They are stable so the directive has no value." Sure they are stable for NOW, but answer my questions first.
Oh that's right we don't know, and frankly rather not find out. The consequences far out weigh the benefits.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
6. Therefore the Omega particles produced by the sphere must be stable.
Doesn't mean they'll stay stable when the Voth start mucking around with them.
We don't have details on exactly what stable/unstable means for an omega particle. It isn't necessarily like Omega particles start out 'red' and dangerous, and advanced technology makes them 'green' and ok.
The little evidence we do have would seem to indicate stability could have something to do with the structure of a cluster of particles interacting with each other. Maybe they're only stable in their storage clusters, and moving around individual particles opens them up to destabilizing again. If not, even unstable molecules could be kept for eons at extremely low temperatures or in stasis fields. In absence of definitive technobabble details on the particles' stability, we have to assume they're still dangerous like previously characterized, just like we assume Kirk or Picard is still a good guy each episode until we see evidence otherwise.
Take a look at my Foundry missions! Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
Oh that's right we don't know, and frankly rather not find out. The consequences far out weigh the benefits.
That line of thinking is EXACTLY why they must destroy the Omega Particles themselves, safely. It's better than enemy hands getting hold of them, purposefully using or accidentally detonating them to wipe out warp travel across the galaxy.
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
There's proof that unstable Omega particles are an environmental issue. There is no proof that stable Omega particles, such as the ones that the sphere must be producing if it still exists and subspace powers still work inside it, are an environmental issue. That's only one of the Voth city-ship-sized plot holes in this season.
There's proof that uncontrolled fusion reactions are an environmental issue. There is no proof that controlled fusion reactions, like inside a reactor, are an environmental issue.
Ergo: we should give fusion reactors to anyone who wants one, as no possible harm could come from that!
I like how this episode is overlooked and completely ignored in the future episodes where they limit warping to certain speeds.
From episode - TNG: 7x09 - Force of Nature
Sorry if it's not on topic. It's just something I seem to think about when warping etc.
They didn't ignore it, it is just mentioned very slightly on scree.
That episode is the reason why the Intrepid class has the moving warp nacelles to improve engine efficiency at high warp and to reduce the environmental damage.
Plus technically we are all using transwarp now anyway which is different to regular warp travel.
Comments
Do you guys remember how in the episode Voyager's operations became militaristic when the ship detected an Omega particle, even so far as disregarding the Prime Directive if necessary?
Omega particles make that look like childs play compared to it's destructive force. Sorry Omega protocol was established for a reason.
Actually if you go by the game "Star Trek: Legacy" it was Kirk himself who helped create the Omega Directive.
Sorry that's one directive I am in FIRM agreement. Hell think back to the Worf Special episode. When it's mentioned there to the Captain of the Enterprise, look at EVERYBODY'S face. Even the Klingon officer's mood suddenly shifts.
Every space faring faction in this game I'm willing to bet has a directive that is pretty much the same as Starfleets.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Since omega was discovered there according to stuff when omega is discovered ALL of standing orders and rules are ignored with the sole purpose of neutralizing omega even the prime directive is ignored because that's how important Starfleet finds it.
It's not your simple garden variety WMD... it does not simply kill "a bunch of people in a great but still limited range"...
It destroys Subspace!
NO Communication, NO Travel, NOTHING... Everyone would be reduced to Interplanetary Travel AT BEST!
It's not one country's survival that is at stake, it is the whole galaxy that currently is on the edge of becoming a cute little, green headed lemming... uncountable lifeforms on the edge of mass extinction...
And yet, we ONLY know what happens when ONE Molecule gives us the Finger.
There is no telling what would happen if there is a ******n chain reaction, it literally could rip the whole Space-Time Continuum apart and end all life here and now in our Galaxy and if it is really REALLY Bad it could end the whole universe, think of it as... we're the fuel for a nice Big Bang, having our own atoms spread throughout a new universe...
I think that is the same problem with people being completely unable to even grasp the sheer size of our own stellar neighbourhood.
And while I agree that it would have been nice to get at least one message stating that the Voth do no talk to Vermin but I am in full agreement with standing Starfleet Orders regarding Omega and I am not even in Section 31...
well somebody has been drinking the koolaids...
Starfleet and the UFP are just as flawed as the others, as has been proven through the IP from time to time.
Only the Iconic Heroes of the federation have been less flawed and kept to a higher moral footing, but even then some have done things that are heavily flawed.
As to the Voth situation, they are a xenophobic semireligiuos state that see all others as beneath them. Its no wonder negotiations failed.
R.I.P
Voyager's operations become militaristic when Janeway gets up on the wrong side of the bed. I do not consider her actions valid proof of anything except her own psychopathy (or VOY's abominably inconsistent writing, take your pick). And I consider her promotion to admiral instead of court-martial proof that there's something in the water at Starfleet Command that makes flag officers lose their minds.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
StarFleet has a General order to wipe out all life on a planet....but noooo this is less trek riiight.
Makes sense, really.
Peacekeeper High Command
Scorpius - Zelbinion Mk II
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
To be completely frank, and I mean this with no malice intended, while you have not gone pants-on-head insane, you are adhering to specific precepts of Starfleet and the Federation that are simply unworkable in a universe that works by the law of the jungle. This is because canon Star Trek, when it tried to stick with them, often used what amounted to straw men to get the point across. Note that this does not encompass all Star Trek, and I believe there are many episodes that deal with interesting moral issues in a more mature manner, but plenty of them don't, and these seem to be what a lot of Trekkies cling to.
The Voth are essentially dealing with something so dangerous, in the middle of subspace of all places, that I daresay we do not have a proper scale to comprehend, even with the nuclear arsenals currently available with our present-day technology. While I believe attempts at diplomacy are important, I would not be a bit surprised if they were tried and failed miserably. It also doesn't help that with the sudden surge of Romulan arrogance at the beginning of Season 8 ("for now," pfft), it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they somehow ended up kicking off this fight, seeing as how they're toying with potentially planet-obliterating devices months after establishing a new homeland for their broken population.
The Voth, to the best of my knowledge, flat-out state that we do not have any rights (http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Voth). Voth arrogance is supreme and I'd not be surprised if they refused to even talk to the motley crew of mostly mammals that are trying to stop them. Long story short, they are dealing with what is literally the most dangerous substance known to Federation, Klingon and Romulan science, a substance so exotic and powerful the Borg quite literally worship it. This situation also has very obvious ties to the Iconians, who are doing a horrid job of hiding their agenda of trying to enslave and/or kill everyone who is not an Iconian.
That it has come to this is regrettable, but hardly unrealistic, and to ignore what it has become in favor of preaching an obscure moral point makes for poor video gaming, poor drama, and strawman-tastic, preachy attempts at communicating morals.
I half expect flames for this, but I felt it necessary to be said, and please understand I do not hold any malice in this response. However, this is a pretty extreme set of circumstances Our Heroes find themselves in. While there are holes in the story (e.g. attempts at diplomacy failing), they don't have a lot of choice here.
Thank you for noting that! I was thinking of that as I composed my own post, but forgot to stick it in the final draft. Yes, Starfleet has its own wonky, genocidal and nonsensically violent bits here and there, many of which are in TOS, of all things.
As for lack of negotiation, datalogs found around the battlezone make it pretty clear the Voth aren't open to that. And the repair ships aren't just rescuing survivors, they're making warships ready to fight again immediately.
Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
And to the naysayers harping on about Doctrine being against Transwarp... look at the bloody episode. Doctrine was changed to accommodate Transwarp, or do you think the elder was permitting one form of 'heresy' while decrying another? That alone shows that Doctrine is not as all-encompassing as everyone, including Cryptic, seems to believe. If an idea is beneficial enough (ie, apparently hubless/gateless Transwarp travel), Doctrine will change.
The Voth are an elder species. What we should have done was offer to assist them (maybe just send the Gorn or Saurians to do so) with their efforts on the caveat that we know how to deal with Omega if it starts looking unstable. That way, we at least have a chance of learning something rather important, supposing they really can harness Omega, but if they don't go along with it we at least tried diplomacy. Hell, using the Gorn and/or Saurians as emissaries, we might actually be able to open true diplomacy with the Voth... just keep the damn humans away from them.
This is pretty much spot on. Between the Voth, the Romulans, Iconians, and Omega particles you can easily see how this escalated to where we are now. It would be good if we had a bit more story to this season. :P
From episode - TNG: 7x09 - Force of Nature
Sorry if it's not on topic. It's just something I seem to think about when warping etc.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I think that's the biggest issue:
if there's a good story behind it...that we're actually TOLD ABOUT, it goes a long way towards making the game enjoyable.:)
I agree. Although what needs to be taken into account is that even Omega particles 'stable' enough to work with have been shown to not really be stable enough to be safe. Starfleet might be jumping to conclusions that the Solanae technology and Voth aren't able to safely manipulate Omega particles, but given the potential consequences, and the lack of examples of any safe use of Omega particles, the approach is understandable.
It's like if somebody built a nuclear power plant that, if it failed, would kill everything in the oceans around the world. Even if it's working fine, governments across the globe would try their best to get it shut down. Nuclear reactors have been known to melt down, and the consequences of this one doing so would be unacceptable. Now would some nations use military strikes to disable the plant, or should they? These are deeper questions posed by the situation, but they don't invalidate the premise or make it less reasonable.
Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Starfleet is not the noble entity people want to believe it is. I present dialog form Undiscovered Country: The Federation is no better that KDF or RSE, they just hypocritically preach at others.
Yeah and when's the last time you heard of a stable omega particle praytell? Sorry the threat of losing all warp capability vs "oh hey lets see if we can stabilize this particle", sorry threat is simply too great. Unless you want to go back to the stone age of space exploration?
Sorry this is one time where I agree with the Omega Directive. It's simply too big of a threat. Hell even the borg are scared of it, that should tell you something.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Did you even read what I posted, what you quoted? Let me spell it out for you.
1. Unstable Omega particles destroy subspace in a large radius when they decay.
2. Subspace destruction is directly proportional (that is to say, x increases when y increases) to the number of particles involved.
3. The sphere produces Omega particles in large amounts and has for an untold length of time (let's say hundreds of thousands of years if we go with the assumption the Iconians built it).
4. Warp still works near and inside the sphere. Boff powers that use subspace still work inside the sphere.
5. Therefore subspace has not been destroyed.
6. Therefore the Omega particles produced by the sphere must be stable. QED.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I believe somewhere (I can't remember) it is stated that later generations of ships do not damage subspace - i.e. the swept design that looks aerodynamic does not harm space fabric. And ships that predate the designs must comply with the warp limit except in case of emergencies(which is usually the case in episodes)....
But to what the OP was getting at - yeah I think it is tremendously silly how the later iterations of star trek have behaved. Take Janeway for example - she threw species 8472 to the wolves to save her own - and in so doing condemned any and all future races that the Borg would conquer.
The whole Omega particle thing - I'm sure antimatter was viewed the same way at one point - "It's to dangerous!", "We shouldn't use it", "What if something goes wrong?!?" Same thing was said about nuclear. [Besides a way to safely dispose of Omega was shown in one of the episodes (graviton torpedoes or something) so just adapt it to the drive system or something.....] So for Starfleet, on more than one occasion, to say "We know what's best for everybody" does irritate me.......
Maybe the Voth do have a way to use Omega without danger(or at least the widespread devastating effects), who knows?
To argue with myself - maybe a good bloody nose with get the Voth to listen to us primitive psychotic apes....
But you miss one point which nobody knows. How long do they stay stable and how easy is to make them unstable.
Sorry there's simply too much that can go wrong with a particle like that. Don't you think star fleet would have already thought about this.
Sure the dyson's sphere is producing stable particles. But how do we know that it's stability isn't as weak as say water molecules that doesn't take a lot to break them apart?
You're not asking all of the questions that really need to be asked. You are just stating "They are stable so the directive has no value." Sure they are stable for NOW, but answer my questions first.
Oh that's right we don't know, and frankly rather not find out. The consequences far out weigh the benefits.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Doesn't mean they'll stay stable when the Voth start mucking around with them.
We don't have details on exactly what stable/unstable means for an omega particle. It isn't necessarily like Omega particles start out 'red' and dangerous, and advanced technology makes them 'green' and ok.
The little evidence we do have would seem to indicate stability could have something to do with the structure of a cluster of particles interacting with each other. Maybe they're only stable in their storage clusters, and moving around individual particles opens them up to destabilizing again. If not, even unstable molecules could be kept for eons at extremely low temperatures or in stasis fields. In absence of definitive technobabble details on the particles' stability, we have to assume they're still dangerous like previously characterized, just like we assume Kirk or Picard is still a good guy each episode until we see evidence otherwise.
Conjoined, Re-emergence, and . . .
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
There's proof that uncontrolled fusion reactions are an environmental issue. There is no proof that controlled fusion reactions, like inside a reactor, are an environmental issue.
Ergo: we should give fusion reactors to anyone who wants one, as no possible harm could come from that!
They didn't ignore it, it is just mentioned very slightly on scree.
That episode is the reason why the Intrepid class has the moving warp nacelles to improve engine efficiency at high warp and to reduce the environmental damage.
Plus technically we are all using transwarp now anyway which is different to regular warp travel.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Variable_geometry_pylon