both escorts and cruiser cant do more then 1 thing well enough to mater at a time. if the actual iconic star trek ships have a wider range of possible disciplines, im not going to have a problem with that.
Well the point was that one ship having this role available to it is infringing on a role that one ship is exclusively designed for.
We can't just go RP reasons and say that because its canon that cruisers are awesome, an entire class of ship should be marginalized by two others (Cruisers owning pressure, Warbirds owning spike).
dps cruisers are not cloneing and doing exactly what escorts are doing beter then escorts. not even battle cruisers or these single cannon and BO cruisers. i know, i run them too.
No they aren't.
They are doing DPS that is close enough, but in an AoE with no need to target and a 360 degree rate of fire that becomes an inescapable damage-zone once you start to stack ships that can do this.
Even when BFAW is not up they have massively better time on target with a 7 to 8 weapons suffering little to no drain - so DEM fires harder & is constant, TG hits harder & is constant, Nukara bleedthrough is constant, Plasmonic leech +/- is constant, placate procs more frequently, weapon procs are constant and damage is constantly applied to one or more targets.
The same doesn't happen with stacking Escorts, they need to work harder - they need to stay close to targets and hammer the same shield facing as the other Escorts. They have massively lower time on target, they can't bring to bear all of those other factors to create this same kind of pressure.
They work in smaller windows but with less tools for spike than a warbird, now that as you mentioned double tap is gone.
The ease of use, ease of design, level of rech reduction (A2B), level of survivability comparable to an escort, ease of cycling EPTx powers (A2B), and ease of firing arc use is all adds up to an output that is too high.
ive run them effectively as well, at least 2 builds in my help thread feature that combo on cruisers. ive seen yours guy's too, i know they are good. oh but, how are those doing since double tap got taken away from them? not so good?
They got a 5th fore weapon now, ask f00k he seems to like his.
I'm sure he'd be happy to take it out for a spin with you in arena.
1 lone escort, pared with anything. another escort, a sci ship, whatever. still is more valuable in a team setting then a cruiser pared with ether of those. beam cruiser + beam cruiser+ beam cruiser, then faw doesn't have the disadvantage it dose when its just 1 or 2 of them. thats when its not so much about how hot you can make beams, but it is actually FAW's 10 shots per cycle thats the problem.
You're missing some combinations in there.
Things like Tac/Faw ships & Heal/Faw hybrids with a high spike warbird.
A 2nd escort becomes unneeded when you can cover the field in beams-fire and have a well piloted spike warbird pick off weakened targets (or any target really, since opposition healing will be stressed).
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] @Aquitaine985 Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre. 2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
PVP use to be fun. Too many aux2cheat users-- Excuse me-- Aux2batt users. Everything can 'tank' now also. As a sci KDF toon (Queen Scora), it's getting a bit much. Too many tricks/Cheese. I'm pretty good at PVP, but I rather just PVE now. I have more fun killing tactical cubes at this point.
I try not use anything near cheese in PVP, but other people don't care. Most have the "it's in the game, so use it" mind set. Yep not fun.
The dress is gold and white. Over 70% people says so. When viewed from a certain screen angle it appears blue and black. The dress displayed on amazon is a blue and black dress, but it's not the same dress in the picture. If you're seeing blue & black you're slightly colored blind. A normal upright screen = white and gold.
i dont know about anyone else, but when i put DHC on a battle cruiser i quickly see that its completely viable and awesome.
everyone is so melodramatic about beams now. flying around in one of these cruisers hitting faw as often as possible only blows up your score, and halfs or worst your effectiveness. only if there 3 or more of you doing that is it a problem. i could name 10 other things that when theres to much of it its a big problem too. like the other elephant in the room, GW.
im really not sure what game you are all playing, but its the escorts with their actual spike damage that still get the best results. you have to blow up your DPS to a huge amount in one of these cruisers to be truly dangerous, and then your more fragile then any escort thats got speed and mobility on its side. the only thing with beams that totally overwhelming is the scimitar, those should be bared from using beam arrays imo.
Yeah, except in a PuG match on the federation side these days, you almost always see two or three ships doing it. With cannons, it requires everyone to concentrate fire on one target and the PuG to work together to take someone down, especially a cruiser or science ship. With two or three people spamming FaW, you can get kills just by flying in a circle and mashing the space button with little teamwork or skill needed.
I don't think that Gravity Well is a problem. Gravity well can be easily countered with evasive maneuvers and high engine power, which is something every captain is equiped with. By contrast, not every captain has AMS, Scramble Sensors, feedback pulse, or acetone assimilators to counter FaW.
And my point was not that FaW kills escorts, but that it has gotten so out of hand it is often more effective for escort Captains to switch to beams and adopt the imbalanced mechanisms that cruiser captains have been using, because they can actually do higher damage output than with cannons thanks to the 360 degree firing arc and the boost to beam output.
Well the point was that one ship having this role available to it is infringing on a role that one ship is exclusively designed for.
We can't just go RP reasons and say that because its canon that cruisers are awesome, an entire class of ship should be marginalized by two others (Cruisers owning pressure, Warbirds owning spike).
if a type of ship type isnt able to deal a ton of damage in a way that favors them best, its a poorly designed ship type imo. even sci ships can deal a ton of damage in a way that favors them too. escorts may not have as diverse a selection of possible roles, but they most obviously specialize in the most popular role by default. i can turn my vet ship into quite a healer with a LTC and LT sci though, wile having a COM tactical i can use to start an alpha/beta strike every 30 seconds or so, as apposed to 15 seconds on normal escorts.
these AtB tac cruisers dont tend to be running any more heals or resits then your typical escorts is. this is what these AtB haters fail to realize. in exchange for not being fast and maneuverable, they can use RSP a bit more often. and their sci heals more often, but with a lower total magnitude of heal after lengthy battle.
They are doing DPS that is close enough, but in an AoE with no need to target and a 360 degree rate of fire that becomes an inescapable damage-zone once you start to stack ships that can do this.
Even when BFAW is not up they have massively better time on target with a 7 to 8 weapons suffering little to no drain - so DEM fires harder & is constant, TG hits harder & is constant, Nukara bleedthrough is constant, Plasmonic leech +/- is constant, placate procs more frequently, weapon procs are constant and damage is constantly applied to one or more targets.
The same doesn't happen with stacking Escorts, they need to work harder - they need to stay close to targets and hammer the same shield facing as the other Escorts. They have massively lower time on target, they can't bring to bear all of those other factors to create this same kind of pressure.
They work in smaller windows but with less tools for spike than a warbird, now that as you mentioned double tap is gone.
The ease of use, ease of design, level of rech reduction (A2B), level of survivability comparable to an escort, ease of cycling EPTx powers (A2B), and ease of firing arc use is all adds up to an output that is too high.
you look at that and see a problem, i sort of see things countering each other. escorts are good at shooting cruisers, those cant get a way. and cruisers are good at shooting escorts, they have high fire arcs. escort vs escort and cruiser vs cruiser can end up a stale mate, except in an escorts case if it has good spike potential and makes good use of it. the beam array cruiser may be easier, but it also cant make use of spike in a critical moment because it doesn't have any. even the strongest cruiser has damage that wont kill you so fast that you cant activate a whole mess of counters before it starts taking its toll. them scimitars can beam you to death in about 5 seconds though.
i really dont have a whole lot of sympathy for escorts saying how hard it is to keep DHCs on target, when i use DHCs on battle cruisers, even the avenger, and have what i would call little trouble making use of them. on something like a bug its proboly easier to keep the forward guns pointed when it wants to then it is for a cruiser to get all 8 beams on a target. its also not that hard to keep out of a cruisers broad side arc in an escort, just got to make course corrections in between DHC cycles. i can even do that in my battle cruisers.
They got a 5th fore weapon now, ask f00k he seems to like his.
I'm sure he'd be happy to take it out for a spin with you in arena.
tell him to man up and just use DHCs lol. the avenger is the hardest battlecruiser to use DHCs on, its not really possible to duel some of the faster escorts like bugs or corvettes, but vs everything else it can really drop the hammer.
when you want to save your BO for the DBB, theres little choice but to loose all other beams. singles were better at damage, as long as you had DEM and glider running, in the window between DEM getting fixed so it was actually worked wile FAW and CRF were on, and FAW getting its acc fixed. and since then, creep actually started favoring beams.
Things like Tac/Faw ships & Heal/Faw hybrids with a high spike warbird.
A 2nd escort becomes unneeded when you can cover the field in beams-fire and have a well piloted spike warbird pick off weakened targets (or any target really, since opposition healing will be stressed).
teams seem to do well if there is 1 pure dps beam boat on a team. wile its not annihilating spam, it can prob for weakness and force heals. it still doesn't replace an escort or warbird or sci ship though, a more diverse team make up just became preferable. 3 or more beam boats though is exploitative, as we all know it imbalances itself if theres to much of FAW.
Yeah, except in a PuG match on the federation side these days, you almost always see two or three ships doing it. With cannons, it requires everyone to concentrate fire on one target and the PuG to work together to take someone down, especially a cruiser or science ship. With two or three people spamming FaW, you can get kills just by flying in a circle and mashing the space button with little teamwork or skill needed.
I don't think that Gravity Well is a problem. Gravity well can be easily countered with evasive maneuvers and high engine power, which is something every captain is equiped with. By contrast, not every captain has AMS, Scramble Sensors, feedback pulse, or acetone assimilators to counter FaW.
And my point was not that FaW kills escorts, but that it has gotten so out of hand it is often more effective for escort Captains to switch to beams and adopt the imbalanced mechanisms that cruiser captains have been using, because they can actually do higher damage output than with cannons thanks to the 360 degree firing arc and the boost to beam output.
last few days ive seen less good beam boats and more GW users. especially GW using escorts. only APO and AtD are working counters against GW that someone actually speced into. it tends to just be escorts that have those skills, the cruiser is going to have AtB not AtD, and not all those tac cruisers have an LTC tac. it may just be me, not always using tac cruisers with LTC tacs, but its a big problem for my kdf battlecruisers, fleet heavy, and any of these cruisers that opt to use BO3 and not APO. they are shut down and made incredibly vulnerable by GW, and more often then not are stuck in 1 GW or another for around a minute and a half, if im not killed in that time. and then theres only about a 15 second window were im not using all my focus to try to escape the newest GW, or survive it when its got me. in all that time, im not doing damage, and the team has lost all ground to the overwhelming number of active GW.
these beam escorts suck frankly, ive not seen 1 good one during this whole beam golden age. cruisers are just better at beams due to their overcaping ability, energy drain mitigation options and 8th weapon slot. just yesterday this guy in a beam bug private challenged my breen ship with its 4 DHCs. it ended up being an endless stale mate, i had him on the ropes a few times, but his bug wasn't much of a threat to me.
last few days ive seen less good beam boats and more GW users. especially GW using escorts. only APO and AtD are working counters against GW that someone actually speced into. it tends to just be escorts that have those skills, the cruiser is going to have AtB not AtD, and not all those tac cruisers have an LTC tac. it may just be me, not always using tac cruisers with LTC tacs, but its a big problem for my kdf battlecruisers, fleet heavy, and any of these cruisers that opt to use BO3 and not APO. they are shut down and made incredibly vulnerable by GW, and more often then not are stuck in 1 GW or another for around a minute and a half, if im not killed in that time. and then theres only about a 15 second window were im not using all my focus to try to escape the newest GW, or survive it when its got me. in all that time, im not doing damage, and the team has lost all ground to the overwhelming number of active GW.
these beam escorts suck frankly, ive not seen 1 good one during this whole beam golden age. cruisers are just better at beams due to their overcaping ability, energy drain mitigation options and 8th weapon slot. just yesterday this guy in a beam bug private challenged my breen ship with its 4 DHCs. it ended up being an endless stale mate, i had him on the ropes a few times, but his bug wasn't much of a threat to me.
Again, I don't buy that Gravity Well is unbalanced. Even the heaviest cruiser can escape if it diverts all power to engines and uses evasive maneuvers. That is a pretty basic counter.
There are no similarly basic counters to FaW. You can spam FaW every 10 seconds yet the confuse immunity lasts much longer than that and confuse is not available to everyone. You can spam FaW a lot more quickly than you can use Feedback pulse, and feedback pulse is not available to everyone. Not everyone has access to acetone assimilators; it is a pay to win console for KDF only..
I just do not think gravity well is unbalanced because everyone has an effective counter to it if they choose to invest in it and use it correctly.
Again, I don't buy that Gravity Well is unbalanced. Even the heaviest cruiser can escape if it diverts all power to engines and uses evasive maneuvers. That is a pretty basic counter.
GW3, or even GW1 with good aux and specing will hold a ship that uses EPtE, an engine battery, and evasive. if i dont have APO or AtD, this is what i try, i just bounce around a lot as a result. and thats just 1 GW. most of the time there are 2 -5 having some pull effect on you.
GW3, or even GW1 with good aux and specing will hold a ship that uses EPtE, an engine battery, and evasive. if i dont have APO or AtD, this is what i try, i just bounce around a lot as a result. and thats just 1 GW. most of the time there are 2 -5 having some pull effect on you.
In my mind, gravity well is balanced if, using evasive maneuvers and the same level of engine power as the aux power used to create the gravity well, you can escape it.
So far, I just have not seen that not happening. I create gravity well's using 130 AUX power and the only ships that cannot escape are usually running less than 130 engine power, which is how it should be.
If I invest in a hold, you should need to invest at least as much to escape it. That is balance.
In fact, in my mind, gravity well is a bit underpowered because it does not give you the same return on investment in high Aux power (over 100) that engine power does in terms of escaping the hold effect.
In my mind, gravity well is balanced if, using evasive maneuvers and the same level of engine power as the aux power used to create the gravity well, you can escape it.
So far, I just have not seen that not happening. I create gravity well's using 130 AUX power and the only ships that cannot escape are usually running less than 130 engine power, which is how it should be.
If I invest in a hold, you should need to invest at least as much to escape it. That is balance.
In fact, in my mind, gravity well is a bit underpowered because it does not give you the same return on investment in high Aux power (over 100) that engine power does in terms of escaping the hold effect.
Aux + Gravitons currently does not equal Engine + ID
In the favor of aux/grav. That is a major imbalance that needs corrected first.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
I've been playing this game almost since the beginning. For the last couple of years, PvP has been what has kept me logging-on, the challenge of trying to outsmart other players.
Lately, it seems like PvP has become people just exploiting the same broken mechanism: beam power overcapping combined with Fire-at-Will.
I am not sure how much I am going to play in the future if it is not rebalanced. It is not fun to join a PuG and watch less experienced players be held helpless by one or two people who are exploiting obvious design flaws in the game to just spam ungodly powerful beams.
Do any other long-time STO players and frequent PvPers feel this way?
imo the majority of pugs are Tac, 2nd in line are sci. there are much fewer engis (or just healers in fact) than the afformentioned two. FAW is not broken, its just that most folks dont have the setup or the backup to get through them. 1) this is because they are pugs and faw is not broken. 2) this is not because they are pugs and faw is broken. bringing back the engi :P
Leech console gives some players an extra 50+ subsystem power. Issue #1.
Attack Pattern Beta destroys hull resists. FaW applies it to everyone. Issue #2.
Some players have a preferred meta and will lobby for it until they get it. Causing a second group of players to lobby for their preferred meta. Reality #1.
Any significant nerf to current beam performance would effect PvE in a similar way any dual heavy cannon nerf would have months ago therefore it will not happen. Reality #2.
With discussions of things, there are often the claims of OP, UP, Fine, or Broken.
Broken in of itself...invalidates any claims of Fine. If something is Broken, it is Broken. That has nothing to do with something being OP or UP.
Once the aspect of something that is Broken is no longer Broken, you know - say it is Fixed...then we could return to our regularly scheduled discussion of whether something is OP, UP, or Fine.
But we can't really have that discussion while something is Broken.
imo the majority of pugs are Tac, 2nd in line are sci. there are much fewer engis (or just healers in fact) than the afformentioned two. FAW is not broken, its just that most folks dont have the setup or the backup to get through them. 1) this is because they are pugs and faw is not broken. 2) this is not because they are pugs and faw is broken. bringing back the engi :P
That explains why the majority of users are from fleet teams then.
Because obviously some fleets would never abuse broken or OP stuff......
Would they?
2 scimitar, 2 other cruisers and a random guy in an avenger.
Not a full premade but 4 members were novacore seeing as you asked.
All abusing the FAW spam.
Not the only fleet team that does it either.
Well if you want to punish FAW boats you can always whip out a cheese wedge group.. (4 Full Wells with a tholian recluse) and stomp them into frustration.. Though I posess a fully cheezed wedge I have never used it in PVP, it was a sci experiment (failed) to try to summon a photonic fleet for massive PVE against hive elite, OFC I didnt know the time rewind does not effect call-ins so Im stuck with a weirdly effective floating cheese...Maybe I should take it PVPing to anger the FAW crowd??:D
Punish schmunish...address the "proc" issue. Ignore the subjective, deal with the objective - a game with as few bugs as possible. Then evaluate the subjective if it's an actual issue...
I really hope you have evidence to back up your claims. From what I've seen, even healers in premades have a hard time healing in faw spam. I think there are a couple of things you don't realize about faw. Everyone agrees that FAW is not broken by itself. It's when you stack it with everything else that you start noticing some very broken things. But you probably meant that anyway. In any case, it's an already established fact that resistance to drain creates wonky effects with faw. Faw registers double damage. Stacks on faw can create very high sustained damage at over 30k dps. And whatever else I forgot. Things like that are very broken.
When you say things like that you make it seem like you've been too comfortable in your NC premade (or facsimile of it). You make it seem like you've been carried all this time in your matches, without having any real understanding of PvP mechanics.
Now, I know it might be possible to counter stacked faw spammage. Heck, I've even suggested a couple of non memorable tactics (different than just bringing heavy heals), but I was promptly told to mind my own business. One thing is certain though, it takes extreme measures to counter such an easy to setup and fly build.
1) Up until maybe a month ago, I've been primary healer on most pugs. On occasion I would see another engi, mostly I saw 4 tacs and myself doing triage. that is my backup to my claim. this is the way it was since open beta. I figure, most folks want to be pew pew kirk, I bet you they're going to need a healer.
2) When I say things like that, I havent been too comfortable in my NC premade. Ask anyone in fleet, more often they will see me pugging rather than fleet premading. That's the way its been for a little over 6 months now.
3) Faw being used on me, is more often nothing I can't handle. That is mostly because I am on an engi. My current engi is a high pressure dps cruiser. I am pretty sure that if I went back to my faithborn/renim only tank/heal build, faw would be even more nothing. My build is a for-pugging build. That might also be why it doesnt seem to have an issue with faw as I am not always reliant on team support.
What faw forces people to do, is step away from min-maxing (unless they're really really really good at it), which most people aren't in all honesty.
2 scimitar, 2 other cruisers and a random guy in an avenger.
Not a full premade but 4 members were novacore seeing as you asked.
All abusing the FAW spam.
Not the only fleet team that does it either.
sto 2013 : buy everything from fleet stores from day one ,make a ship with 1 bind to rule them all and grind 10000 rep systems for buffs....that's pure skill.The game is what people deserve....nothing more or less.
I don't get why threads like this burst into flames at times, yes BFaW is one of those skills when 4 people use can be troublesome but what happened to people trying to stay alive long enough to annoy people who use it? You can't win every match but if I am to lose I still use it as practice in staying alive after all its a game not real life. Oh and on a side note you can get past BFAW spam you just need to be fast and get behind the ships; granted you wont get behind all the ships doing it sometimes but thats what your RSP, TSS and EptS is for to buff you while its on and then you can get cross healed or something.
I find Adapting is easier than crying Nerf most of the time
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
No Drama, No Fuss, Just good old fashioned pew pew!
I don't get why threads like this burst into flames at times, yes BFaW is one of those skills when 4 people use can be troublesome but what happened to people trying to stay alive long enough to annoy people who use it? You can't win every match but if I am to lose I still use it as practice in staying alive after all its a game not real life. Oh and on a side note you can get past BFAW spam you just need to be fast and get behind the ships; granted you wont get behind all the ships doing it sometimes but thats what your RSP, TSS and EptS is for to buff you while its on and then you can get cross healed or something.
I find Adapting is easier than crying Nerf most of the time
maybe you care to explain how you keep a escort (or healer ...thou healers are pointless now) alive with rsp when you can't keep a bug ship with jevonite alive due to bleedthrough or get close to faw spam.If a rsp is 11s maybe you have a secret way to pop a cruiser in less than 11 seconds ... cruisers already having rsp III on global cd all the time .
If you say "get 5 scis to sci cheese and subnuc " ...then where is the damn point in having escorts or wanting to play healer?
Comments
Well the point was that one ship having this role available to it is infringing on a role that one ship is exclusively designed for.
We can't just go RP reasons and say that because its canon that cruisers are awesome, an entire class of ship should be marginalized by two others (Cruisers owning pressure, Warbirds owning spike).
No they aren't.
They are doing DPS that is close enough, but in an AoE with no need to target and a 360 degree rate of fire that becomes an inescapable damage-zone once you start to stack ships that can do this.
Even when BFAW is not up they have massively better time on target with a 7 to 8 weapons suffering little to no drain - so DEM fires harder & is constant, TG hits harder & is constant, Nukara bleedthrough is constant, Plasmonic leech +/- is constant, placate procs more frequently, weapon procs are constant and damage is constantly applied to one or more targets.
The same doesn't happen with stacking Escorts, they need to work harder - they need to stay close to targets and hammer the same shield facing as the other Escorts. They have massively lower time on target, they can't bring to bear all of those other factors to create this same kind of pressure.
They work in smaller windows but with less tools for spike than a warbird, now that as you mentioned double tap is gone.
The ease of use, ease of design, level of rech reduction (A2B), level of survivability comparable to an escort, ease of cycling EPTx powers (A2B), and ease of firing arc use is all adds up to an output that is too high.
They got a 5th fore weapon now, ask f00k he seems to like his.
I'm sure he'd be happy to take it out for a spin with you in arena.
Not at the time we were using them.
You're missing some combinations in there.
Things like Tac/Faw ships & Heal/Faw hybrids with a high spike warbird.
A 2nd escort becomes unneeded when you can cover the field in beams-fire and have a well piloted spike warbird pick off weakened targets (or any target really, since opposition healing will be stressed).
But if I didn't enjoy PvP, I wouldn't be here.
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
R.I.P
I try not use anything near cheese in PVP, but other people don't care. Most have the "it's in the game, so use it" mind set. Yep not fun.
Yeah, except in a PuG match on the federation side these days, you almost always see two or three ships doing it. With cannons, it requires everyone to concentrate fire on one target and the PuG to work together to take someone down, especially a cruiser or science ship. With two or three people spamming FaW, you can get kills just by flying in a circle and mashing the space button with little teamwork or skill needed.
I don't think that Gravity Well is a problem. Gravity well can be easily countered with evasive maneuvers and high engine power, which is something every captain is equiped with. By contrast, not every captain has AMS, Scramble Sensors, feedback pulse, or acetone assimilators to counter FaW.
And my point was not that FaW kills escorts, but that it has gotten so out of hand it is often more effective for escort Captains to switch to beams and adopt the imbalanced mechanisms that cruiser captains have been using, because they can actually do higher damage output than with cannons thanks to the 360 degree firing arc and the boost to beam output.
if a type of ship type isnt able to deal a ton of damage in a way that favors them best, its a poorly designed ship type imo. even sci ships can deal a ton of damage in a way that favors them too. escorts may not have as diverse a selection of possible roles, but they most obviously specialize in the most popular role by default. i can turn my vet ship into quite a healer with a LTC and LT sci though, wile having a COM tactical i can use to start an alpha/beta strike every 30 seconds or so, as apposed to 15 seconds on normal escorts.
these AtB tac cruisers dont tend to be running any more heals or resits then your typical escorts is. this is what these AtB haters fail to realize. in exchange for not being fast and maneuverable, they can use RSP a bit more often. and their sci heals more often, but with a lower total magnitude of heal after lengthy battle.
you look at that and see a problem, i sort of see things countering each other. escorts are good at shooting cruisers, those cant get a way. and cruisers are good at shooting escorts, they have high fire arcs. escort vs escort and cruiser vs cruiser can end up a stale mate, except in an escorts case if it has good spike potential and makes good use of it. the beam array cruiser may be easier, but it also cant make use of spike in a critical moment because it doesn't have any. even the strongest cruiser has damage that wont kill you so fast that you cant activate a whole mess of counters before it starts taking its toll. them scimitars can beam you to death in about 5 seconds though.
i really dont have a whole lot of sympathy for escorts saying how hard it is to keep DHCs on target, when i use DHCs on battle cruisers, even the avenger, and have what i would call little trouble making use of them. on something like a bug its proboly easier to keep the forward guns pointed when it wants to then it is for a cruiser to get all 8 beams on a target. its also not that hard to keep out of a cruisers broad side arc in an escort, just got to make course corrections in between DHC cycles. i can even do that in my battle cruisers.
tell him to man up and just use DHCs lol. the avenger is the hardest battlecruiser to use DHCs on, its not really possible to duel some of the faster escorts like bugs or corvettes, but vs everything else it can really drop the hammer.
when you want to save your BO for the DBB, theres little choice but to loose all other beams. singles were better at damage, as long as you had DEM and glider running, in the window between DEM getting fixed so it was actually worked wile FAW and CRF were on, and FAW getting its acc fixed. and since then, creep actually started favoring beams.
teams seem to do well if there is 1 pure dps beam boat on a team. wile its not annihilating spam, it can prob for weakness and force heals. it still doesn't replace an escort or warbird or sci ship though, a more diverse team make up just became preferable. 3 or more beam boats though is exploitative, as we all know it imbalances itself if theres to much of FAW.
last few days ive seen less good beam boats and more GW users. especially GW using escorts. only APO and AtD are working counters against GW that someone actually speced into. it tends to just be escorts that have those skills, the cruiser is going to have AtB not AtD, and not all those tac cruisers have an LTC tac. it may just be me, not always using tac cruisers with LTC tacs, but its a big problem for my kdf battlecruisers, fleet heavy, and any of these cruisers that opt to use BO3 and not APO. they are shut down and made incredibly vulnerable by GW, and more often then not are stuck in 1 GW or another for around a minute and a half, if im not killed in that time. and then theres only about a 15 second window were im not using all my focus to try to escape the newest GW, or survive it when its got me. in all that time, im not doing damage, and the team has lost all ground to the overwhelming number of active GW.
these beam escorts suck frankly, ive not seen 1 good one during this whole beam golden age. cruisers are just better at beams due to their overcaping ability, energy drain mitigation options and 8th weapon slot. just yesterday this guy in a beam bug private challenged my breen ship with its 4 DHCs. it ended up being an endless stale mate, i had him on the ropes a few times, but his bug wasn't much of a threat to me.
Again, I don't buy that Gravity Well is unbalanced. Even the heaviest cruiser can escape if it diverts all power to engines and uses evasive maneuvers. That is a pretty basic counter.
There are no similarly basic counters to FaW. You can spam FaW every 10 seconds yet the confuse immunity lasts much longer than that and confuse is not available to everyone. You can spam FaW a lot more quickly than you can use Feedback pulse, and feedback pulse is not available to everyone. Not everyone has access to acetone assimilators; it is a pay to win console for KDF only..
I just do not think gravity well is unbalanced because everyone has an effective counter to it if they choose to invest in it and use it correctly.
GW3, or even GW1 with good aux and specing will hold a ship that uses EPtE, an engine battery, and evasive. if i dont have APO or AtD, this is what i try, i just bounce around a lot as a result. and thats just 1 GW. most of the time there are 2 -5 having some pull effect on you.
In my mind, gravity well is balanced if, using evasive maneuvers and the same level of engine power as the aux power used to create the gravity well, you can escape it.
So far, I just have not seen that not happening. I create gravity well's using 130 AUX power and the only ships that cannot escape are usually running less than 130 engine power, which is how it should be.
If I invest in a hold, you should need to invest at least as much to escape it. That is balance.
In fact, in my mind, gravity well is a bit underpowered because it does not give you the same return on investment in high Aux power (over 100) that engine power does in terms of escaping the hold effect.
Aux + Gravitons currently does not equal Engine + ID
In the favor of aux/grav. That is a major imbalance that needs corrected first.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
imo the majority of pugs are Tac, 2nd in line are sci. there are much fewer engis (or just healers in fact) than the afformentioned two. FAW is not broken, its just that most folks dont have the setup or the backup to get through them. 1) this is because they are pugs and faw is not broken. 2) this is not because they are pugs and faw is broken. bringing back the engi :P
Chillax. No Ego. No Drama.
Like my alien? Watch THE VIDEO
Need custom graphics for you or your fleet? Click HERE
Attack Pattern Beta destroys hull resists. FaW applies it to everyone. Issue #2.
Some players have a preferred meta and will lobby for it until they get it. Causing a second group of players to lobby for their preferred meta. Reality #1.
Any significant nerf to current beam performance would effect PvE in a similar way any dual heavy cannon nerf would have months ago therefore it will not happen. Reality #2.
Just my personal opinion...
Broken in of itself...invalidates any claims of Fine. If something is Broken, it is Broken. That has nothing to do with something being OP or UP.
Once the aspect of something that is Broken is no longer Broken, you know - say it is Fixed...then we could return to our regularly scheduled discussion of whether something is OP, UP, or Fine.
But we can't really have that discussion while something is Broken.
That explains why the majority of users are from fleet teams then.
Because obviously some fleets would never abuse broken or OP stuff......
Would they?
Chillax. No Ego. No Drama.
Like my alien? Watch THE VIDEO
Need custom graphics for you or your fleet? Click HERE
Not a full premade but 4 members were novacore seeing as you asked.
All abusing the FAW spam.
Not the only fleet team that does it either.
1) Up until maybe a month ago, I've been primary healer on most pugs. On occasion I would see another engi, mostly I saw 4 tacs and myself doing triage. that is my backup to my claim. this is the way it was since open beta. I figure, most folks want to be pew pew kirk, I bet you they're going to need a healer.
2) When I say things like that, I havent been too comfortable in my NC premade. Ask anyone in fleet, more often they will see me pugging rather than fleet premading. That's the way its been for a little over 6 months now.
3) Faw being used on me, is more often nothing I can't handle. That is mostly because I am on an engi. My current engi is a high pressure dps cruiser. I am pretty sure that if I went back to my faithborn/renim only tank/heal build, faw would be even more nothing. My build is a for-pugging build. That might also be why it doesnt seem to have an issue with faw as I am not always reliant on team support.
What faw forces people to do, is step away from min-maxing (unless they're really really really good at it), which most people aren't in all honesty.
Cheers!
Chillax. No Ego. No Drama.
Like my alien? Watch THE VIDEO
Need custom graphics for you or your fleet? Click HERE
Chillax. No Ego. No Drama.
Like my alien? Watch THE VIDEO
Need custom graphics for you or your fleet? Click HERE
While the Connie will always be my favorite Trek ship, I have a certain desire to see more Breen ships...it calls out the Minmatar in me.
sto 2013 : buy everything from fleet stores from day one ,make a ship with 1 bind to rule them all and grind 10000 rep systems for buffs....that's pure skill.The game is what people deserve....nothing more or less.
I find Adapting is easier than crying Nerf most of the time
maybe you care to explain how you keep a escort (or healer ...thou healers are pointless now) alive with rsp when you can't keep a bug ship with jevonite alive due to bleedthrough or get close to faw spam.If a rsp is 11s maybe you have a secret way to pop a cruiser in less than 11 seconds ... cruisers already having rsp III on global cd all the time .
If you say "get 5 scis to sci cheese and subnuc " ...then where is the damn point in having escorts or wanting to play healer?
I think you talk about other game.