Abso
I believe it's because he's vital for an early story mission which is repeatable. Allowing him to be removed would require that mission to be modified to account for his absence if you repeat it after dismissing him. Do-able but maybe they've decided not worth the effort.
I'd say it actually took them MORE programming initially to make Tovan how he is instead of like EVERY other BOFF in the game. Knowing what I do from a Database standpoint they took quite a bit of time making him essential compared to the others and yes it would require work on all the missions now but from a stand point of keeping it 'real' for lack of better phrase at the moment they need to and don't need to make an essential BOFF for every other faction too. Even if they did that make it so we choose our First one like the Fed side. At least that way if we don't want the Tovan Tactical we can get maybe a Sci or Engineer instead.
I think that some of this might just be a 'we screwed up and rather than fix it we're going to make ALL like this one' AKA adding essential boffs to the rest of the factions. I have to say that this issue has really made me not want to play and I haven't played my Romulan's any for a long time. If they add a Tovan to the other factions I'm done probably. I understand bugs and know they take a while to figure out so I've been patient but adding an essential NPC to your crew that there's no story or other means to get rid of totally breaks the command privilege of choosing your own officers.
I'd say it actually took them MORE programming initially to make Tovan how he is instead of like EVERY other BOFF in the game. Knowing what I do from a Database standpoint they took quite a bit of time making him essential compared to the others
What makes you think this?
The only difference I've seen re Tovan is his involvement in the early story missions and from memory (it's been a while since I played them) there's only the one repeatable one for which he's essential.
That's not anything to do with the database. That's story, voice acting etc.
In terms of actually making him undismissable that may not involve the database. There's a bunch of ways you could do it but since he's the ONLY undismissable boff in the entire game a tiny bit of code inserted into the Career Options dropdown script would be sufficient.
IF selected boff = Tovan's boff ID --> Grey out Discrarge option and display "You cannot discharge blah blah".
Very quick and simple. If they decided to add a few more undismissable boffs they'd probably just add their ID's to that script. If they decided to add lots more undismissables (EEEK!) then they might either make a database table to store the IDs of all the essential boffs or (less likely) add a field to the boff table to record essential / not essential.
The only difference I've seen re Tovan is his involvement in the early story missions and from memory (it's been a while since I played them) there's only the one repeatable one for which he's essential.
That's not anything to do with the database. That's story, voice acting etc.
In terms of actually making him undismissable that may not involve the database. There's a bunch of ways you could do it but since he's the ONLY undismissable boff in the entire game a tiny bit of code inserted into the Career Options dropdown script would be sufficient.
IF selected boff = Tovan's boff ID --> Grey out Discrarge option and display "You cannot discharge blah blah".
Very quick and simple. If they decided to add a few more undismissable boffs they'd probably just add their ID's to that script. If they decided to add lots more undismissables (EEEK!) then they might either make a database table to store the IDs of all the essential boffs or (less likely) add a field to the boff table to record essential / not essential.
Depends on how they did it. There could still be a reference to him. If they hardcoded all the missions instead of referring to DBs for actor contents and other relevant materials they made it even harder not easier to remove him. That said though personally I'm just advocating against the essential BOFFS not for them. Or at least a CHOICE like on the fed side.
I don't know your level of experience with databases and programming but mine is in the expert region and I think you're overthinking this. Sometimes these things are a lot simpler than they might seem.
Do any missions need to "know" that Tovan is essential? No. He's undismissable, ergo it is impossible for a Romulan player not to have him in their collection. So there's no need for any of the new LOR missions to have been constructed any differently from other missions in the game just because of Tovan.
They would only need to add such code if they allowed him to be dismissable because then missions in which he would otherwise play a part would need to check for his presence and play / display the appropriate dialogue, and maybe even progress down different paths.
So chaning the code to allow him to be dismissed? Probably dead simple. But they might see the work involved in altering the mission(s) in which he plays a part to be too much effort for too little gain.
Ok I get where you're going with it It's Tovan's element that's essential and that it wouldn't break the mission if he disappeared. I was just thinking about all the missions he pops down to intrude like when you 'capture' the elachi Beta on Nimbus and other places even if he's not in the away team. To me that says there's a call in the mission somewhere that say's Tovan MUST do this. Even though Fed and Kdf currently don't call one. Hmmm It's been a while I haven't tried it with the non Andorian Tac you get I wonder if it's hard coded that she's the one that shows up too or not in that mission now that I think about it. As to my DB experience last was Dbase years ago and rusty but I'd say mid level not expert by anymeans but yet more than most people and Dbase isn't as powerful as I hope they're using here (probably a SQL flavor or Oracle) so while I can get a lot of the basics yes I admit that I still don't have 100% but to me there's something forcing Tovan on us and ideally it needs to go. My question was trying to figure out if it was as simple as him being flagged essential or if they essentially added code/resource calls to him specifically which would mean more work.
I've spent too much time doing other things the last few years. I'd have been able to figure it out using a different game and one of the editors (Skyrim comes to mind) and playing around with NPC functions and figuring out the problem but way too rusty obviously. /sigh
Anyways, getting back on topic..... Suliban have an easy hook to get them to join the RR. I'm still not quite sure about the Acamarians.
hmm.... it seems likely that they'd do a hook that revolves around the Acamarians needing an ally to avoid getting caught in the crossfire between the KDF and Feds. Acamarians have an obvious reason not to side with KDF, they don't want to end up as yet another subject race. But Fed side? Well we know from canon that the Acamarians actually have some pretty good bioweapons. The Federation objects to the existence of such things and would likely insist on the Acamarians disposing of them before allowing them to be a member. However, the Republic is less concerned with the nature of the weapons they use, and more concerned with the motives of the people using the weapons.
Side note: it'd be really fun if we could get a medic kit with a Microvirus injector.
Anyways, getting back on topic..... Suliban have an easy hook to get them to join the RR. I'm still not quite sure about the Acamarians.
Agreed.
I could see the Suliban. Other's like the Hirogen I'd have a harder time with. I'd suggest that if we were going to add DQ races maybe the DQ should be separate factions again or Fed but not Rom. While we're on the topic of the other quadrants has anything been said about the Gama? Is it off limits or kind of like the DQ they haven't 'gotten' there yet? Just curious since I could see all kinds of things opening up there too though I really don't want ANOTHER Dominion war but sooner or later we're going to have to deal with them and if we do maybe we can get Odo to make an appearance. /just thinking.
I could see the Suliban. Other's like the Hirogen I'd have a harder time with. I'd suggest that if we were going to add DQ races maybe the DQ should be separate factions again or Fed but not Rom. While we're on the topic of the other quadrants has anything been said about the Gama? Is it off limits or kind of like the DQ they haven't 'gotten' there yet? Just curious since I could see all kinds of things opening up there too though I really don't want ANOTHER Dominion war but sooner or later we're going to have to deal with them and if we do maybe we can get Odo to make an appearance. /just thinking.
I suspect that they have yet to decide whether they want to make a playable Dominion faction.
I'd prefer not to see a full-scale war. Especially in light of how Loriss's story ended. But a conflict that is somehow related to the ongoing happenings.... maybe.
I was just thinking about all the missions he pops down to intrude like when you 'capture' the elachi Beta on Nimbus and other places even if he's not in the away team. To me that says there's a call in the mission somewhere that say's Tovan MUST do this. Even though Fed and Kdf currently don't call one.
I did those for the first time just after LOR launched for both rom and fed and my vague recollection is that roms and feds have a few completely different missions in the later stages of the game. That may be how it's handled.
Or since he's undismissable and can only be acquired by Romulan captains it could also be a simple, if captain is romulan --> let Tovan do his thing.
Comments
I'd say it actually took them MORE programming initially to make Tovan how he is instead of like EVERY other BOFF in the game. Knowing what I do from a Database standpoint they took quite a bit of time making him essential compared to the others and yes it would require work on all the missions now but from a stand point of keeping it 'real' for lack of better phrase at the moment they need to and don't need to make an essential BOFF for every other faction too. Even if they did that make it so we choose our First one like the Fed side. At least that way if we don't want the Tovan Tactical we can get maybe a Sci or Engineer instead.
I think that some of this might just be a 'we screwed up and rather than fix it we're going to make ALL like this one' AKA adding essential boffs to the rest of the factions. I have to say that this issue has really made me not want to play and I haven't played my Romulan's any for a long time. If they add a Tovan to the other factions I'm done probably. I understand bugs and know they take a while to figure out so I've been patient but adding an essential NPC to your crew that there's no story or other means to get rid of totally breaks the command privilege of choosing your own officers.
My character Tsin'xing
What makes you think this?
The only difference I've seen re Tovan is his involvement in the early story missions and from memory (it's been a while since I played them) there's only the one repeatable one for which he's essential.
That's not anything to do with the database. That's story, voice acting etc.
In terms of actually making him undismissable that may not involve the database. There's a bunch of ways you could do it but since he's the ONLY undismissable boff in the entire game a tiny bit of code inserted into the Career Options dropdown script would be sufficient.
IF selected boff = Tovan's boff ID --> Grey out Discrarge option and display "You cannot discharge blah blah".
Very quick and simple. If they decided to add a few more undismissable boffs they'd probably just add their ID's to that script. If they decided to add lots more undismissables (EEEK!) then they might either make a database table to store the IDs of all the essential boffs or (less likely) add a field to the boff table to record essential / not essential.
Depends on how they did it. There could still be a reference to him. If they hardcoded all the missions instead of referring to DBs for actor contents and other relevant materials they made it even harder not easier to remove him. That said though personally I'm just advocating against the essential BOFFS not for them. Or at least a CHOICE like on the fed side.
Do any missions need to "know" that Tovan is essential? No. He's undismissable, ergo it is impossible for a Romulan player not to have him in their collection. So there's no need for any of the new LOR missions to have been constructed any differently from other missions in the game just because of Tovan.
They would only need to add such code if they allowed him to be dismissable because then missions in which he would otherwise play a part would need to check for his presence and play / display the appropriate dialogue, and maybe even progress down different paths.
So chaning the code to allow him to be dismissed? Probably dead simple. But they might see the work involved in altering the mission(s) in which he plays a part to be too much effort for too little gain.
I've spent too much time doing other things the last few years. I'd have been able to figure it out using a different game and one of the editors (Skyrim comes to mind) and playing around with NPC functions and figuring out the problem but way too rusty obviously. /sigh
hmm.... it seems likely that they'd do a hook that revolves around the Acamarians needing an ally to avoid getting caught in the crossfire between the KDF and Feds. Acamarians have an obvious reason not to side with KDF, they don't want to end up as yet another subject race. But Fed side? Well we know from canon that the Acamarians actually have some pretty good bioweapons. The Federation objects to the existence of such things and would likely insist on the Acamarians disposing of them before allowing them to be a member. However, the Republic is less concerned with the nature of the weapons they use, and more concerned with the motives of the people using the weapons.
Side note: it'd be really fun if we could get a medic kit with a Microvirus injector.
My character Tsin'xing
Agreed.
I could see the Suliban. Other's like the Hirogen I'd have a harder time with. I'd suggest that if we were going to add DQ races maybe the DQ should be separate factions again or Fed but not Rom. While we're on the topic of the other quadrants has anything been said about the Gama? Is it off limits or kind of like the DQ they haven't 'gotten' there yet? Just curious since I could see all kinds of things opening up there too though I really don't want ANOTHER Dominion war but sooner or later we're going to have to deal with them and if we do maybe we can get Odo to make an appearance.
I'd prefer not to see a full-scale war. Especially in light of how Loriss's story ended. But a conflict that is somehow related to the ongoing happenings.... maybe.
My character Tsin'xing
I did those for the first time just after LOR launched for both rom and fed and my vague recollection is that roms and feds have a few completely different missions in the later stages of the game. That may be how it's handled.
Or since he's undismissable and can only be acquired by Romulan captains it could also be a simple, if captain is romulan --> let Tovan do his thing.