It's always the dilithium contributions that take forever. I contribute half of my daily refined dilithium to my fleet. I think that's pretty generous.
Agreed. Shame Cryptic doesn't see it that way. I often give my entire take. My reward? 8,000 FCs, at best. While the person who was lucky enough to spam the Fleet Marks walks away with better than 26,000, or more.
With doff's for some people the answer can be simply they don't have the space since there roster is full of doff's they need to keep and don't have enough zen to get the expansion, the easiest solution for this would be a option to purchase and send directly to the fleet project and while yes it is possible to toss some into mail limbo for space some people don't realize or like doing this. A option to sort the contributeble doffs by their specialization would probably also up contributions.
Commodities : Not really sure here tho admittedly it is kind of annoying buying insanely large amounts swapping this to EC and giving a reason for those trade freighters to be coming and going would probably work a lot better give the option to donate commodities still and give like double or triple the EC value or something just to give people a reason to donate em still if they pick em up.
Dilithium : this is really the kickier from what I have seen refined dilithium is hard to part with until your character is geared since you need so much of it even after it has plenty of uses. The best fix I can actually think of for this would be to allow un-refined ore to be donated instead of refined, this makes sense as well especially if the fleet has its own mine/refining plant.
buy 4 new character slots make Rom kdf characters level the to level 20 and stop
you get double the doffs with romulans
you get 480 Dilithium for answering 1 question at klingon academy
you can do just a few marauder missins to get contraband to get 5 to 10 contraband takes only about 10 minutes
turn this in at first city for 2000 dilithium every 4 hours
these 4 characters can get you about approx 32 doffs every 3 days X 4 characters
They can get you 4480 dilithium per day if you do more missions you can get a lot more dilithium but it takes a little more time
you can use kdf doffs on fed starbases and the reverese is also true
in a few months you also have 4 level 50 characters just from doing these doff missions
at this time you can get even more rewards doing fast ec foundry missions...a lot more
best thing is you dont have to spend anything on these characters there so powerful all you need are white and green equipment
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
They should make provisions an item that you can purchase one at a time in order to use the fleet store, in addition to having a common pool of provisions to help newer members gear up.
That way, altruistic fleet leaders could keep a provisioned store to help new members gear for STFs/PvP, but people could also be guaranteed the use of fleet holdings they contributed to whenever they want, instead of hoping the store has provisions. (Particularly since contributors to provisioning just made sure they have less dil to use to buy items than people who did not.)
I do not agree with this, as I think controlling access to the store is an acceptable and successful tactic to encourage faster filling up of projects that have doff inputs. So, I support the need for provision projects.
Also, the provision cost is not defrayed amongst two people usually, it's more like ten unless one very enthusiastic fleetie has decided to fill the project up.
* If they won't offer us a mass DOFF grinder, they should let higher quality DOFFs be handed in.
I DOFF a lot in the background while I'm working. As a result, it's pretty trivial for me to get trash blue and purples DOFFs from repeated colony supports, Caitian Field Flight Training, etc. However, grinding them down to whites is prohibitively time consuming. Like a lot of people have complained, you run back and forth between the personnel officer and the mailbox a lot, not to mention clicking on every single stupid one of them.
If Cryptic doesn't want to code in a mass grinder, or the option to grind blue/purple directly down to white, I would love the ability to just hand in higher quality DOFFs for their equivalent value: green should count as 3, blue as 9, purple as 27. (Or they could go like 2/6/18 or something, to reflect imperfect conversions.) Seriously, there are a lot of DOFFs I could be handing in that I don't just because it's such a ridiculous and unnecessary hassle.
They've stated before why contribution for higher quality doffs would not be feasible. The system apparently does not make it easy for you to be able to use a higher quality input and get an equivalent output. So they could set it up to take purple doffs...but you would only get 300 fleet credits in response.
To address your other point on the time consumption of doffcracking: That's why I think the Suliban Cell Ship is worth 100m EC. It offers a personell doff contact right next to the exchange terminal! The amount of *time* it saves has already for me equaled the amount of money I spent on my SCS. At the rate I'm going, I might by a second.
Some of the replies make it sound like "Star Trek: Online" should be approached as an actual job. While I am a firm supporter of the 'work hard to get rewarded' mentality, I also believe that paying customers (f2p zen buyers and subscribers) should have it a little easier.
"Star Trek: Online" is suppose to be a form of entertainment; therefore, the game experience should be fun, exciting, and rewarding. When I have to wait several days to get rewarded, while waiting out cool down timers, I feel like I am completely wasting my time.
Roleplaying games such as "Dragon Age: Origins", "Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic", and "Neverwinter Nights" reward you frequently. Casual players can play those games for two hours, and they can walk away feeling rewarded each day.
When it comes to "Star Trek: Online", the reputation and fleetbase system does not reward you each day. Regardless about how much time, effort, and money you put into the game, "Star Trek: Online's" endgame was designed to prevent you from being rewarded quickly.
Once you actually do get rewarded, the items you obtain are used for completing repetitious tasks. You cannot use 'endgame' content for leveling. Endgame is a treadmill of repetitious tasks, which leads you around a 360 degree circle.
So, why are people looking for shortcuts?
Players have become fatigued from the endless grinding. Even though some people want stuff for free, I personally believe the majority are just looking to lighten the load. Fleetbase, Embassy, Mine, and Spire holdings are piling up on top of the Romulans, Omega, Nukara, and Voth reputation holdings. Players want to help with fleet holdings, but they feel overwhelmed by the endless grinding.
Finally, the question you should be asking is, "are you building a fleet to have fun, or are you doing so for the sole purpose of building a base"? If you are only interested in building a base, at the expense of other players, I would just shutdown the entire fleet. When I want to buy something from the reputation system or c-store, I invest my own time, money, and effort into the system. I am doing that for myself.
Fleetbase masters can be just as selfish as his/her fleet members.
That is my fleet dilithium contribution ratio......I think everyone realizes that dilithium is essential for a multitude of personal reasons (i.e. gear, or ZEN conversion, etc. etc.) To expect all fleet members in any given fleet to relinquish the majority of their dilithium for fleet projects is not only ridiculous, but also unrealistic. That being said, if you want to get things moving in the project queues, someone needs to pony up and hopefully someone in your fleet (like the leader of the fleet) will contribute more than others normally do. Everyone needs to realize that there are players who commit 40, 50, 60 hours or even more every week in STO and that there are many more players that play a lot more casually. There are also some players with a disposable income stream that can deposit massive amounts of dilithium simply by converting ZEN they have purchased with real world $$. More power to them, literally, but they are enigmas.
The rank tier system within a fleet is a great way to encourage players to contribute more if they wish - the reward being a promotion within the fleet.
I decided about a year ago that I would use the 25% ratio to limit my fleet dilithium input, and at the same time alleviate some of my guilt for being a hoarder of dilithium (jk) IMO I think that is not only fair, but entirely equitable within the current fleet system framework.
In any event, thankfully the Fed fleet I am a member of is about three weeks from completing EVERYTHING (est.) and I am eternally grateful to those members who have 1,000,000 Fleet credits or more invested, as I could never reach that level of commitment with my 15-25 hours per week log time.
This all depends on what we want to be more freely available: Fleet Credits or Provisions.
1. If Fleet credits are the issue, then they need to be easier to get in those fleets where there is a lot of competition to contribute while still making actual contributions to the fleet a requirement for getting them.
2. If provisions are the issue, and we make it so that they are individual, then many people are simply not going to bother contributing more than what they need for the next item on their shopping list. Net result is less overall fleet progress. Besides, if you still need Fleet Credit to buy the gear, and you are having issues getting them, see point 1.
1. I would assume that in large fleets getting credits can be a problem and in small fleets getting provisions would be more of a problem. Maybe this would be like a shifting gradient based on how many people are in a fleet and actively contributing and taking provisions. Individual provisioning is not meant to solve the problem of earning fleet credits. It is kind of like putting an animal on the endangered species list is not meant to solve global warming.
2. Most people already simply do not bother contributing more than what they need for the next item on their shopping list. Plus if you need fleet credit to buy your individual fleet provisions how are you going to get them? By contributing to fleet projects and aiding fleet progress. I think many people are only concerned with earning fleet credits when there is something they want to buy.
Either way the problem of getting fleet credits already exists. Adding a personal provisioning system is not meant to address that. It is meant to address the difference between people who contribute valuable resources for fleet provisions and the people who contribute little, but might use the provisions more.
EXAMPLE: Something like a buff provision gives 500 Starbase XP and 5 provisions. Break it down to 1/5 the cost/time for an individual provision project. The fleet would/could still get 100 Starbase XP and the player would get 1 provision. However, they would not earn any fleet credits for the resources they invested.
If they increased the amount of Fleet Credits earned for donating dilithium and lowered the price of dilithium for buying provisions than I believe more people would be willing to donate dilithium and at the same time they would earn more fleet credits. A player can donate 1000 Fleet Marks and get 50000 Fleet credits or they can donate 1000 Dilithium and get 1000 Fleet Credits. Regardless of your intentions in a fleet what sounds like a good deal to you? People don't need Fleet Marks for anything other than fleet projects. For dilithium players need large quantities for just about everything in the game.
I finance 99.9% of all the doff contributions. I don't need to turn the mine into a dilithium sink to do this.
the question wasnt whether or not one needed to, the question was whether or not there was a logical reason to ever do it. and there is indeed a logical reason to do it.
To get anywhere in a fleet,you need a dedicated player base,that thinks of progression in a fleet.My fleet has completed everything and is at tier 5 in all areas.
I think one of the reasons we have done well,is because its adults who use real money to get what they want and to help the fleet progress onwards.
I have noticed that its kids in this game that hold things up,because all they want is an easy time of it,with just shootem ups and none of the work involved.
Also,many kids do not have an income,so they can not use real money in this game.
Sadly this game is not free to play if you want to get anywhere at reasonable speed.
If players stuck to free to play only,then it would be alot slower,and people would be TRIBBLE off and just leave.
For a fleet to succeed,and for all fleet members to get what they want,powerful weapons and equipment,you have to work hard for it and grind to get all resources and currencies.
There are too many freeloaders in this game,that want everything given to them free.
Well think again freeloaders,you will not get what you want,unless you earn it by working hard in a fleet.
QFT
This is the same reason I'm in my fleet. We're having fun and making progress. But most importantly for me we're not "militant" about fleet progress. We're from a previous MMO so we know what we need to do to succeed without being cajoled.
Ex-CoH players, Please add the chat channel "CoX STO"
1. Allow fleet members/owners to see how much each member has contributed specifically in dilithium, doffs, commodities/items and marks/expertise, rather than just total fleet credits received. Then fleet leaders can link promotions to specific types of contributions. No more fleet mark ninjas grabbing all the top ranks.
2. Increase fleet credits received per dilithium crystal. Decrease dilithium cost of fleet items. Greatly increase fleet credit cost of fleet items. The idea is that you spend about the same amount of dilithium per item overall, but you do it by giving the dilithium to your fleet (for credits) rather than hording dilithium away from your fleet.
3. Increase fleet credits received for doffs and commodities as well. Except in very small fleets that struggle to fill mark requirements, I think everyone agrees that fleet mark contributions are overpaid for the effort/sacrifice relative to other contributions.
4. Yes, provisions should be a rep project, not a fleet project. Nobody who has ever had their store privileges taken away from them by a selfish fleet leader will argue with this. Two ways to handle this: A. When you make a contribution to a fleet project, it is double-counted toward your rep project, or B. You fill your rep project, and when a suitable fleet project opens it autofills that project. The current situation in which you can do most of the hard work to fill a provision project only to have some fleet mark ninja use up the provisions when it completes is outrageous. Logically they're better able to do that because they're the ones who have dilithium for items, since they haven't been contributing any.
As things stand now, I will never again donate a single solitary dilithium crystal to a fleet that I don't control. It's too easy for fleet leaders and your fellow members to rob you.
Firstly, the problems I see are that some fleet project 'currencies' are harder to acquire, in limited supply and needed for personal progression, while others are basically free and have no other use than contributing to fleet projects.
The other problem I see is "exchange rates" of each commodity type for fleet credits. Some stuff has such a ridiculously low exchange rate compared to its cost that it almost isn't worth bothering with.
Fleet Marks are the biggest offender - they cost nothing to acquire, and are basically a meaningless currency with no other use than to put into fleet projects - and yet they have probably the highest effective fleet credit exchange rates out of ANY commodity. I can pull 50+ fleet marks from a simple Fleet Alert run, which converts to 2500+ fleet credits. Not only do they cost me nothing to obtain, but I also profit from the process in the gear and expertise that I acquire from the runs. The cap on FMs is ridiculously high for anybody but the most hardcore FM gatherer, and so there is no gating on how much a person can get - for virtually nothing.
I see no need for fleet marks to be in the game at all. They cause issues for both large and small fleets - small fleets can have problems getting enough to complete projects, and big fleets have problems with not enough demand for FMs to allow all players to dump them. They are, simply, a pain in the rear.
On the flip side of this, every other meaningful commodity has a price on it, and costs the player.
Dilithium is probably the biggest issue. For a start, requiring refined dilithium puts a tight squeeze on players who are already trying to get the most bang out of their limited daily quota, considering nearly EVERY fleet and rep item requires dilithium to acquire - often in the tens of thousands. It does smack of being a carrot and whip to "entice" people to use the dilithium exchange and buy zen to pay for starbase upgrades. I agree with previous suggestions in allowing unrefined dilithium to be used.
Secondly, a fleet alert for 50+ FMs takes ten minutes and can generate over 2500 fleet credits plus loot and expertise, and can be done numerous times in a day, but a Doff mission to get 50 Dilithium takes how long??? for a pathetic 1 fleet credit per dilithium. Even dilithium mining missions, which take about 10 minutes to complete, net at most 1500 dilithium, and can only be done once a day. So while theoretically I could pull tens of thousands of fleet credits a day from fleet marks, dilithium donations are nowhere near as cost effective. If anything, the Dil --> FC conversion rate needs to be much higher. I understand that allows people to generate huge amounts of FCs from large dilithium donations, but the current exchange rate is more of a deterrent than an incentive. 1 FC per dilithium is downright insulting.
As for Doff donations - well not all of us run a 400 slot Doff roster, and for those with smaller roster sizes, most of their doffs will be tied up in missions anyway. While Doffs can be generated from missions, they are still gated, and so apart from spending fleet credits (which most developing players will be saving for fleet equipment), the only way to get them is to buy them, and they aren't cheap. The fact that each Doff is only worth 300 FCs is also pretty lame - considering that you can pay upwards of five digits in ECs to buy a single white Doff.
Commodities are the same - again, not everyone is rolling in ECs, and buying stacks of commodities to donate to a fleet project can get insanely expensive. Not to mention the conversion rate of fleet credits for these items also sucks.
TL;DR - Fleet Marks are basically free, a no-brainer to obtain, cost the player nothing other than time, and have a stupidly over-valued fleet credit exchange rate, while everything else is a drain on player's (often limited) resources and their values in fleet credits simply suck.
That said, I do contribute what I can in all areas, but at the end of the day I'm only one (fairly casual) player who doesn't have shedloads of resources just to dump on the starbase hamster-wheel.
Somewhere on the wrong side of insanity.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately be explained by stupidity" ~ Robert Heinlein.
Some ex fleet mates have told me that they don?t like the idea of double dipping into their Dilithium stash, one to actually stock the fleet store and again to purchase the item(s).
I have found this to be true for casual players that spend less than 10 hours a week in the game.
This game is now geared towards the hard core gamer that have more than 3 toons and spend more than 30 hours a week to grind the necessary items to not only donate but still have plenty left over to get all the gear (s)he needs.
This is the way Cryptic (PWE) likes it. they need the players to get overwhelmed with the grind were they feel the need to avoid it by just dropping cold hard cash to buy Zen and exchange it to Dilithium or use the Zen to purchase keys to exchange then into EC and then purchase the required items to get the projects going.
That the whole point of grinding, they want it to be so tedious that you would rather spend the cash than spend the time.
Dilithium is probably the biggest issue. For a start, requiring refined dilithium puts a tight squeeze on players who are already trying to get the most bang out of their limited daily quota, considering nearly EVERY fleet and rep item requires dilithium to acquire - often in the tens of thousands. It does smack of being a carrot and whip to "entice" people to use the dilithium exchange and buy zen to pay for starbase upgrades. I agree with previous suggestions in allowing unrefined dilithium to be used.
Secondly, a fleet alert for 50+ FMs takes ten minutes and can generate over 2500 fleet credits plus loot and expertise, and can be done numerous times in a day, but a Doff mission to get 50 Dilithium takes how long??? for a pathetic 1 fleet credit per dilithium. Even dilithium mining missions, which take about 10 minutes to complete, net at most 1500 dilithium, and can only be done once a day. So while theoretically I could pull tens of thousands of fleet credits a day from fleet marks, dilithium donations are nowhere near as cost effective. If anything, the Dil --> FC conversion rate needs to be much higher. I understand that allows people to generate huge amounts of FCs from large dilithium donations, but the current exchange rate is more of a deterrent than an incentive. 1 FC per dilithium is downright insulting.
Some ex fleet mates have told me that they don?t like the idea of double dipping into their Dilithium stash, one to actually stock the fleet store and again to purchase the item(s).
Even if I am lucky enough to be on when an XO announces a new project has been slotted (you know, due to having a life and all), I can not even get to the Holdings tab, before the Fleet Marks are filled. Leaving nothing but the items that give out pathetic returns. Even those tend to fill up quickly, except for Dil.
So my choices are, 1) to have Fleet credits, but no Dil, or 2) to have Dil, but no Fleet credits. Considering all that Dilithium can get me, seems a no-brainer.
I've donated a lot of Dil to fleet projects, but have little to show for it in Fleet credits. This stops now. I've made it this long without Fleet "stuff", I can go longer. Until Cryptic decides to rethink how Fleet Credits are awarded.
It seems to me that the biggest problem is with the members of the fleet. Not everyone wants to work on the same project. I joined my current fleet about a year ago because I wanted a fleet ship. One of the fleets higher members gave me full access to everything when I joined, and I've been putting in more than my fair share for what I joined to get. Unfortunately, everyone in the fleet seems to be doing different projects, and nothing has gone above tier 3 as of yet. Now, buying fleet equipment for my ship was all well and good, but I still don't have the ship I joined to get, because it feels like I'm trying to get omega rep up all over again. One of the big limiting factors is of course the dilithium refining cap. 8k dilithium a day doesn't get you much anymore, especially what with all the new items and ships that are rolling out. There's also the matter of some fleets that willingly give full access to their stores to everyone, and get nothing back for it. Its like the player who took the stuff just skips town once they have what they want. Personally, I think the amount of resources required for certain tiers is ludacrously high. It seems that only fleets with strict terms on purchasing and a ton of active members can possibly achieve tier 5 in a reasonable amount of time.
I gave up reading at page 4 but basically here is how I see it.
- Fleet Credit reward seems a bit low right now for dilithium and to an extent doffs.
- Most players do not play to grind, or are bad at grinding. 8k Dilithium takes very little time invested into the game for someone like me, but ages for others. Ditto for creating an army of white doffs.
These are inherent problems I see. Depending on the type of people in your fleet they may or may not struggle heavily to donate that precious purple rock and bodies.
I must add though that I have been very fortunate as my fleet currently has some top tier contributors and has received several extremely generous donations over it's lifetime. But at the end of the day at the fleet leader if I am not willing to personally fill those slots why should I expect my members to?
*edit addon*
Also try to be, wise, about which projects you slot. It can be demoralizing if every project is slotted and still needs dilithium and/or doffs to progress all the time. Focus your grinding efforts on what the rest of the fleet isn't and cover the gaps yourself.
For reasons known and unknown, the progression in my fleet is going slow.
It is not really an issue, per se. I/We are not in a hurry, but...
...The problem we have, is none other than getting enough fleetmarks.
Grinding for fleetmarks is truly boring in the long run.
A wish:
Make it so that we can get a small amount of fleetmarks 'for free', -much like the fleetmark tribble, (but ofc more than only 1 pr hour.)
We are ahead on all projects, except for finding enough fleetmarks for the projects.
Dil/Doffs/Commodities... ...No problem. I can fill those singlehandedly in a short time.
Fleetmarks... ...I wish people could be a little more generous in contributing those.
For reasons known and unknown, the progression in my fleet is going slow.
It is not really an issue, per se. I/We are not in a hurry, but...
...The problem we have, is none other than getting enough fleetmarks.
Grinding for fleetmarks is truly boring in the long run.
Federation, right? Too bad there's no way to send Fleet Marks to other players, I've got I think something like a couple thousand on one of my Fed characters from the old 'Investigate Officer Report' days I'd be willing to let you have since I'm a solo player.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
Federation, right? Too bad there's no way to send Fleet Marks to other players, I've got I think something like a couple thousand on one of my Fed characters from the old 'Investigate Officer Report' days I'd be willing to let you have since I'm a solo player.
That's an easy enough issue to deal with actually. All you have to do is temporarily join that fleet, donate your marks to whatever project they want, and then leave the fleet when finished. That's the method people use when they sell their marks. It works rather well.
Dil/Doffs/Commodities... ...No problem. I can fill those singlehandedly in a short time.
Fleetmarks... ...I wish people could be a little more generous in contributing those.
I'm sure you're getting all they have, seeing as Fleet marks have absolutely no other use at all. Dilithium has other uses - in fact is required for almost everything - and there's a limit on how much you can refine on one character in one day, as opposed to Flarks.
As for Doffs... Crew cap. You hit it, you can't bring in any new bridge officers to donate. You can't even degrind any uncommons or rares, cause that frees up two fewer slots than you need to collect the reward. So with 400 purple and blue doffs, you kinda stop doing the recruitment missions, or buying fleet doffs. The Doff donation problem would go a long way toward being solved if the Doff system had a 10 doff buffer tacked on, an 'assignment pending' pool, where newly acquired Doffs are held for 24 hours if your regular roster is full, but from which Doffs can be discarded, mailed, auctioned or donated. (Just not sent on assignments, except perhaps the degrinders.)
Donating Doffs is a hassle. Even if you have the crew slots. I'm doing a tier 3 dilithium mine project on my alt-fleet right now, and 910 generic doffs requires a minimum of: 1820 stationary clicks buying 910 Fleet Doffs (UI moved so the item and confirmation button line up), 910 stationary clicks to unpack those Doffs in stages, and then 910 times clicking and scrolling to tag each and every g*****n one for contributing. And I haven't counted the in-betweens and the steadily growing pile of non-contributable Refugees cutting back on the empty space you've got, meaning you contribute fewer every time, and need to buy more packs. I can't for the life of me imagine why the Doff contribution UI, at the top of it, doesn't have a "Select All" button.
Or how about I just give the base commander 455,000 fleet credits - Hell, make it 546,000. Have a 20% markup, 600 for generics, 900 for specific professions, to pay for some blankets and airlocks for any refugees to sleep in - and you hire your own freaking personnel!? :mad:
As for the raw materials, especially on the bigger projects, an option to contribute EC in units of the required commodity's replicator cost could help people along. You know, people who only have one open inventory slot, and would gladly replicate a whole bunch of TRIBBLE for the Starbase, but don't want to do the whole 15K pile in steps of 200 or 250. As an option only, please. We'll still get these things from drops in space and Doff assignments, afterall, and I didn't roll a Ferengi for nothing, thank you.
Federation, right? Too bad there's no way to send Fleet Marks to other players, I've got I think something like a couple thousand on one of my Fed characters from the old 'Investigate Officer Report' days I'd be willing to let you have since I'm a solo player.
That is mighty nice of you. Sadly I am on holiday for 3 more days, and cannot send you an invite to the fleet for the moment being.
Fleet Projects are a heavy drain on the average and casual players. DL is needed for some max level gear, Rep system items, Fleet items, and can be used to convert into ZEN. The rest of the stuff outside of the marks costs players Energy Credits. With PWE making it harder and harder for average and casual players to earn EC and DL, those contributions to Fleet Projects are not as contribution friendly.
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Looking for a new fleet? Drop by the in-game chat channel, "tenforwardforum", and say hi to the members of A Fleet Called Ten Forward (Fed) and The Orion Pirates (KDF). If you already have a fleet you are happy with, please feel free to drop by our chat channel if you are looking for a friendly bunch of helpful people to socialize with.
That is mighty nice of you. Sadly I am on holiday for 3 more days, and cannot send you an invite to the fleet for the moment being.
You might need to send me a forum PM or in-game mail first; I usually keep invites turned off. *Shrugs.*
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
One thing they need to do pretty quickly to prevent more fleets from dying is to increase fleet credits from dilithum to a 5 to 1 rate. People will more likely contribute dilithium then when fleet marks are filled. Especially with more New rep dilithium sinks coming!
For reasons known and unknown, the progression in my fleet is going slow.
It is not really an issue, per se. I/We are not in a hurry, but...
...The problem we have, is none other than getting enough fleetmarks.
Grinding for fleetmarks is truly boring in the long run.
A wish:
Make it so that we can get a small amount of fleetmarks 'for free', -much like the fleetmark tribble, (but ofc more than only 1 pr hour.)
We are ahead on all projects, except for finding enough fleetmarks for the projects.
Dil/Doffs/Commodities... ...No problem. I can fill those singlehandedly in a short time.
Fleetmarks... ...I wish people could be a little more generous in contributing those.
I don't think this is a good idea.
It is true that grinding is kinda BORING. The PVE or the PVP is not the best. It can be sticky,.. people being rude or simply out of their league. The maps are Ok, some of them... but it can be better.
I am personally missing the ground PvP.. it used to be full now its an desert. And there should be more things to do than PvP. Not everyone likes space battles.
But back to the question. The reason why I rarely fill in dilithium is because I am one of those that has none or at least very little of the item called dilithium. The costs for get gear via rep is sky high,.. the fleet gear and costumes are also sky high and to be frank.. I prefer to save for the Zen store, if I am able to keep up with the cost of having a fun time with any rare items. I simply cannot keep up,... I keep saving and its gone just like that to get any kind of sets. I don't even have the space sets yet for any of my rep, its very expensive. I rather buy more character slots to level new character since I like leveling up and experience the missions.
I think they need to review Dilithium costs across the board anyway;
For an example...
VR Advanced Scorpions from the Romulan Rep system; 24,000 Dilithium, 20 DOffs, 2 Perigrine or To'Duj hangers, 20 Warp Coils, 20 Romulan Marks - plus everything it took to get up to Tier III Romulan in the first place.
VR Advanced hanger pets from the Dilithium Store, including Adv. Delta Flyers, Adv. To'Duj and Adv. Orion Slavers, just to name a few; 30,250 dilithium.
6,250 Dilithium more, but less costly overall when the addition costs in DOffs, Commodities, Marks and such, as well as time are factored in.
I don't know about anyone else, but I'd just buy the Dilithium Store Advanced carrier pets - and do. With everything else that are required at some point to be able to access Rep System items like ground gear, space gear, hanger pets... I don't know, maybe I'm just weird, but I think maybe the dilithium costs should be a bit lower still..
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
Thinking about this a bit further,.. I think the biggest mistake is that this rep system is after level 50. They need to incorporate this rep system into the mission and the leveling up system. It needs to be incorporated with a person for each rep, .. an integrated part of the story rather to have it all open up after level 50. I am not saying you should get XII gear at low level.. but make it more useful.
And they really need to review their prices.. its just to steep or review their ways of getting dilithium and EC.. and .. to many currency.
nerfing ways to get every thing to fill projects adding new holds and so on so its now never ending and the fleet system is nothing more then a black hole for resources again my 2 EC
Comments
Agreed. Shame Cryptic doesn't see it that way. I often give my entire take. My reward? 8,000 FCs, at best. While the person who was lucky enough to spam the Fleet Marks walks away with better than 26,000, or more.
Commodities : Not really sure here tho admittedly it is kind of annoying buying insanely large amounts swapping this to EC and giving a reason for those trade freighters to be coming and going would probably work a lot better give the option to donate commodities still and give like double or triple the EC value or something just to give people a reason to donate em still if they pick em up.
Dilithium : this is really the kickier from what I have seen refined dilithium is hard to part with until your character is geared since you need so much of it even after it has plenty of uses. The best fix I can actually think of for this would be to allow un-refined ore to be donated instead of refined, this makes sense as well especially if the fleet has its own mine/refining plant.
buy 4 new character slots make Rom kdf characters level the to level 20 and stop
you get double the doffs with romulans
you get 480 Dilithium for answering 1 question at klingon academy
you can do just a few marauder missins to get contraband to get 5 to 10 contraband takes only about 10 minutes
turn this in at first city for 2000 dilithium every 4 hours
these 4 characters can get you about approx 32 doffs every 3 days X 4 characters
They can get you 4480 dilithium per day if you do more missions you can get a lot more dilithium but it takes a little more time
you can use kdf doffs on fed starbases and the reverese is also true
in a few months you also have 4 level 50 characters just from doing these doff missions
at this time you can get even more rewards doing fast ec foundry missions...a lot more
best thing is you dont have to spend anything on these characters there so powerful all you need are white and green equipment
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I do not agree with this, as I think controlling access to the store is an acceptable and successful tactic to encourage faster filling up of projects that have doff inputs. So, I support the need for provision projects.
Also, the provision cost is not defrayed amongst two people usually, it's more like ten unless one very enthusiastic fleetie has decided to fill the project up.
They've stated before why contribution for higher quality doffs would not be feasible. The system apparently does not make it easy for you to be able to use a higher quality input and get an equivalent output. So they could set it up to take purple doffs...but you would only get 300 fleet credits in response.
To address your other point on the time consumption of doffcracking: That's why I think the Suliban Cell Ship is worth 100m EC. It offers a personell doff contact right next to the exchange terminal! The amount of *time* it saves has already for me equaled the amount of money I spent on my SCS. At the rate I'm going, I might by a second.
"Star Trek: Online" is suppose to be a form of entertainment; therefore, the game experience should be fun, exciting, and rewarding. When I have to wait several days to get rewarded, while waiting out cool down timers, I feel like I am completely wasting my time.
Roleplaying games such as "Dragon Age: Origins", "Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic", and "Neverwinter Nights" reward you frequently. Casual players can play those games for two hours, and they can walk away feeling rewarded each day.
When it comes to "Star Trek: Online", the reputation and fleetbase system does not reward you each day. Regardless about how much time, effort, and money you put into the game, "Star Trek: Online's" endgame was designed to prevent you from being rewarded quickly.
Once you actually do get rewarded, the items you obtain are used for completing repetitious tasks. You cannot use 'endgame' content for leveling. Endgame is a treadmill of repetitious tasks, which leads you around a 360 degree circle.
So, why are people looking for shortcuts?
Players have become fatigued from the endless grinding. Even though some people want stuff for free, I personally believe the majority are just looking to lighten the load. Fleetbase, Embassy, Mine, and Spire holdings are piling up on top of the Romulans, Omega, Nukara, and Voth reputation holdings. Players want to help with fleet holdings, but they feel overwhelmed by the endless grinding.
Finally, the question you should be asking is, "are you building a fleet to have fun, or are you doing so for the sole purpose of building a base"? If you are only interested in building a base, at the expense of other players, I would just shutdown the entire fleet. When I want to buy something from the reputation system or c-store, I invest my own time, money, and effort into the system. I am doing that for myself.
Fleetbase masters can be just as selfish as his/her fleet members.
Its a two-way street.
That is my fleet dilithium contribution ratio......I think everyone realizes that dilithium is essential for a multitude of personal reasons (i.e. gear, or ZEN conversion, etc. etc.) To expect all fleet members in any given fleet to relinquish the majority of their dilithium for fleet projects is not only ridiculous, but also unrealistic. That being said, if you want to get things moving in the project queues, someone needs to pony up and hopefully someone in your fleet (like the leader of the fleet) will contribute more than others normally do. Everyone needs to realize that there are players who commit 40, 50, 60 hours or even more every week in STO and that there are many more players that play a lot more casually. There are also some players with a disposable income stream that can deposit massive amounts of dilithium simply by converting ZEN they have purchased with real world $$. More power to them, literally, but they are enigmas.
The rank tier system within a fleet is a great way to encourage players to contribute more if they wish - the reward being a promotion within the fleet.
I decided about a year ago that I would use the 25% ratio to limit my fleet dilithium input, and at the same time alleviate some of my guilt for being a hoarder of dilithium (jk) IMO I think that is not only fair, but entirely equitable within the current fleet system framework.
In any event, thankfully the Fed fleet I am a member of is about three weeks from completing EVERYTHING (est.) and I am eternally grateful to those members who have 1,000,000 Fleet credits or more invested, as I could never reach that level of commitment with my 15-25 hours per week log time.
Pigeonslayer- A.N.E.R.S. (Avian Nuisance Eradication & Removal Specialist)
2. Most people already simply do not bother contributing more than what they need for the next item on their shopping list. Plus if you need fleet credit to buy your individual fleet provisions how are you going to get them? By contributing to fleet projects and aiding fleet progress. I think many people are only concerned with earning fleet credits when there is something they want to buy.
Either way the problem of getting fleet credits already exists. Adding a personal provisioning system is not meant to address that. It is meant to address the difference between people who contribute valuable resources for fleet provisions and the people who contribute little, but might use the provisions more.
EXAMPLE: Something like a buff provision gives 500 Starbase XP and 5 provisions. Break it down to 1/5 the cost/time for an individual provision project. The fleet would/could still get 100 Starbase XP and the player would get 1 provision. However, they would not earn any fleet credits for the resources they invested.
If they increased the amount of Fleet Credits earned for donating dilithium and lowered the price of dilithium for buying provisions than I believe more people would be willing to donate dilithium and at the same time they would earn more fleet credits. A player can donate 1000 Fleet Marks and get 50000 Fleet credits or they can donate 1000 Dilithium and get 1000 Fleet Credits. Regardless of your intentions in a fleet what sounds like a good deal to you? People don't need Fleet Marks for anything other than fleet projects. For dilithium players need large quantities for just about everything in the game.
the question wasnt whether or not one needed to, the question was whether or not there was a logical reason to ever do it. and there is indeed a logical reason to do it.
free jkname
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Hey or we could get a system that does not require me to basically become my own asian grindshop?
QFT
This is the same reason I'm in my fleet. We're having fun and making progress. But most importantly for me we're not "militant" about fleet progress. We're from a previous MMO so we know what we need to do to succeed without being cajoled.
Ex-CoH players, Please add the chat channel "CoX STO"
2. Increase fleet credits received per dilithium crystal. Decrease dilithium cost of fleet items. Greatly increase fleet credit cost of fleet items. The idea is that you spend about the same amount of dilithium per item overall, but you do it by giving the dilithium to your fleet (for credits) rather than hording dilithium away from your fleet.
3. Increase fleet credits received for doffs and commodities as well. Except in very small fleets that struggle to fill mark requirements, I think everyone agrees that fleet mark contributions are overpaid for the effort/sacrifice relative to other contributions.
4. Yes, provisions should be a rep project, not a fleet project. Nobody who has ever had their store privileges taken away from them by a selfish fleet leader will argue with this. Two ways to handle this: A. When you make a contribution to a fleet project, it is double-counted toward your rep project, or B. You fill your rep project, and when a suitable fleet project opens it autofills that project. The current situation in which you can do most of the hard work to fill a provision project only to have some fleet mark ninja use up the provisions when it completes is outrageous. Logically they're better able to do that because they're the ones who have dilithium for items, since they haven't been contributing any.
As things stand now, I will never again donate a single solitary dilithium crystal to a fleet that I don't control. It's too easy for fleet leaders and your fellow members to rob you.
The other problem I see is "exchange rates" of each commodity type for fleet credits. Some stuff has such a ridiculously low exchange rate compared to its cost that it almost isn't worth bothering with.
Fleet Marks are the biggest offender - they cost nothing to acquire, and are basically a meaningless currency with no other use than to put into fleet projects - and yet they have probably the highest effective fleet credit exchange rates out of ANY commodity. I can pull 50+ fleet marks from a simple Fleet Alert run, which converts to 2500+ fleet credits. Not only do they cost me nothing to obtain, but I also profit from the process in the gear and expertise that I acquire from the runs. The cap on FMs is ridiculously high for anybody but the most hardcore FM gatherer, and so there is no gating on how much a person can get - for virtually nothing.
I see no need for fleet marks to be in the game at all. They cause issues for both large and small fleets - small fleets can have problems getting enough to complete projects, and big fleets have problems with not enough demand for FMs to allow all players to dump them. They are, simply, a pain in the rear.
On the flip side of this, every other meaningful commodity has a price on it, and costs the player.
Dilithium is probably the biggest issue. For a start, requiring refined dilithium puts a tight squeeze on players who are already trying to get the most bang out of their limited daily quota, considering nearly EVERY fleet and rep item requires dilithium to acquire - often in the tens of thousands. It does smack of being a carrot and whip to "entice" people to use the dilithium exchange and buy zen to pay for starbase upgrades. I agree with previous suggestions in allowing unrefined dilithium to be used.
Secondly, a fleet alert for 50+ FMs takes ten minutes and can generate over 2500 fleet credits plus loot and expertise, and can be done numerous times in a day, but a Doff mission to get 50 Dilithium takes how long??? for a pathetic 1 fleet credit per dilithium. Even dilithium mining missions, which take about 10 minutes to complete, net at most 1500 dilithium, and can only be done once a day. So while theoretically I could pull tens of thousands of fleet credits a day from fleet marks, dilithium donations are nowhere near as cost effective. If anything, the Dil --> FC conversion rate needs to be much higher. I understand that allows people to generate huge amounts of FCs from large dilithium donations, but the current exchange rate is more of a deterrent than an incentive. 1 FC per dilithium is downright insulting.
As for Doff donations - well not all of us run a 400 slot Doff roster, and for those with smaller roster sizes, most of their doffs will be tied up in missions anyway. While Doffs can be generated from missions, they are still gated, and so apart from spending fleet credits (which most developing players will be saving for fleet equipment), the only way to get them is to buy them, and they aren't cheap. The fact that each Doff is only worth 300 FCs is also pretty lame - considering that you can pay upwards of five digits in ECs to buy a single white Doff.
Commodities are the same - again, not everyone is rolling in ECs, and buying stacks of commodities to donate to a fleet project can get insanely expensive. Not to mention the conversion rate of fleet credits for these items also sucks.
TL;DR - Fleet Marks are basically free, a no-brainer to obtain, cost the player nothing other than time, and have a stupidly over-valued fleet credit exchange rate, while everything else is a drain on player's (often limited) resources and their values in fleet credits simply suck.
That said, I do contribute what I can in all areas, but at the end of the day I'm only one (fairly casual) player who doesn't have shedloads of resources just to dump on the starbase hamster-wheel.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately be explained by stupidity" ~ Robert Heinlein.
Some ex fleet mates have told me that they don?t like the idea of double dipping into their Dilithium stash, one to actually stock the fleet store and again to purchase the item(s).
I have found this to be true for casual players that spend less than 10 hours a week in the game.
This game is now geared towards the hard core gamer that have more than 3 toons and spend more than 30 hours a week to grind the necessary items to not only donate but still have plenty left over to get all the gear (s)he needs.
This is the way Cryptic (PWE) likes it. they need the players to get overwhelmed with the grind were they feel the need to avoid it by just dropping cold hard cash to buy Zen and exchange it to Dilithium or use the Zen to purchase keys to exchange then into EC and then purchase the required items to get the projects going.
That the whole point of grinding, they want it to be so tedious that you would rather spend the cash than spend the time.
Even if I am lucky enough to be on when an XO announces a new project has been slotted (you know, due to having a life and all), I can not even get to the Holdings tab, before the Fleet Marks are filled. Leaving nothing but the items that give out pathetic returns. Even those tend to fill up quickly, except for Dil.
So my choices are, 1) to have Fleet credits, but no Dil, or 2) to have Dil, but no Fleet credits. Considering all that Dilithium can get me, seems a no-brainer.
I've donated a lot of Dil to fleet projects, but have little to show for it in Fleet credits. This stops now. I've made it this long without Fleet "stuff", I can go longer. Until Cryptic decides to rethink how Fleet Credits are awarded.
- Fleet Credit reward seems a bit low right now for dilithium and to an extent doffs.
- Most players do not play to grind, or are bad at grinding. 8k Dilithium takes very little time invested into the game for someone like me, but ages for others. Ditto for creating an army of white doffs.
These are inherent problems I see. Depending on the type of people in your fleet they may or may not struggle heavily to donate that precious purple rock and bodies.
I must add though that I have been very fortunate as my fleet currently has some top tier contributors and has received several extremely generous donations over it's lifetime. But at the end of the day at the fleet leader if I am not willing to personally fill those slots why should I expect my members to?
*edit addon*
Also try to be, wise, about which projects you slot. It can be demoralizing if every project is slotted and still needs dilithium and/or doffs to progress all the time. Focus your grinding efforts on what the rest of the fleet isn't and cover the gaps yourself.
It is not really an issue, per se. I/We are not in a hurry, but...
...The problem we have, is none other than getting enough fleetmarks.
Grinding for fleetmarks is truly boring in the long run.
A wish:
Make it so that we can get a small amount of fleetmarks 'for free', -much like the fleetmark tribble, (but ofc more than only 1 pr hour.)
We are ahead on all projects, except for finding enough fleetmarks for the projects.
Dil/Doffs/Commodities... ...No problem. I can fill those singlehandedly in a short time.
Fleetmarks... ...I wish people could be a little more generous in contributing those.
Federation, right? Too bad there's no way to send Fleet Marks to other players, I've got I think something like a couple thousand on one of my Fed characters from the old 'Investigate Officer Report' days I'd be willing to let you have since I'm a solo player.
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
That's an easy enough issue to deal with actually. All you have to do is temporarily join that fleet, donate your marks to whatever project they want, and then leave the fleet when finished. That's the method people use when they sell their marks. It works rather well.
Mine Trap Supporter
I'm sure you're getting all they have, seeing as Fleet marks have absolutely no other use at all. Dilithium has other uses - in fact is required for almost everything - and there's a limit on how much you can refine on one character in one day, as opposed to Flarks.
As for Doffs... Crew cap. You hit it, you can't bring in any new bridge officers to donate. You can't even degrind any uncommons or rares, cause that frees up two fewer slots than you need to collect the reward. So with 400 purple and blue doffs, you kinda stop doing the recruitment missions, or buying fleet doffs. The Doff donation problem would go a long way toward being solved if the Doff system had a 10 doff buffer tacked on, an 'assignment pending' pool, where newly acquired Doffs are held for 24 hours if your regular roster is full, but from which Doffs can be discarded, mailed, auctioned or donated. (Just not sent on assignments, except perhaps the degrinders.)
Donating Doffs is a hassle. Even if you have the crew slots. I'm doing a tier 3 dilithium mine project on my alt-fleet right now, and 910 generic doffs requires a minimum of: 1820 stationary clicks buying 910 Fleet Doffs (UI moved so the item and confirmation button line up), 910 stationary clicks to unpack those Doffs in stages, and then 910 times clicking and scrolling to tag each and every g*****n one for contributing. And I haven't counted the in-betweens and the steadily growing pile of non-contributable Refugees cutting back on the empty space you've got, meaning you contribute fewer every time, and need to buy more packs. I can't for the life of me imagine why the Doff contribution UI, at the top of it, doesn't have a "Select All" button.
Or how about I just give the base commander 455,000 fleet credits - Hell, make it 546,000. Have a 20% markup, 600 for generics, 900 for specific professions, to pay for some blankets and airlocks for any refugees to sleep in - and you hire your own freaking personnel!? :mad:
As for the raw materials, especially on the bigger projects, an option to contribute EC in units of the required commodity's replicator cost could help people along. You know, people who only have one open inventory slot, and would gladly replicate a whole bunch of TRIBBLE for the Starbase, but don't want to do the whole 15K pile in steps of 200 or 250. As an option only, please. We'll still get these things from drops in space and Doff assignments, afterall, and I didn't roll a Ferengi for nothing, thank you.
That is mighty nice of you. Sadly I am on holiday for 3 more days, and cannot send you an invite to the fleet for the moment being.
> <
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You might need to send me a forum PM or in-game mail first; I usually keep invites turned off. *Shrugs.*
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
I don't think this is a good idea.
It is true that grinding is kinda BORING. The PVE or the PVP is not the best. It can be sticky,.. people being rude or simply out of their league. The maps are Ok, some of them... but it can be better.
I am personally missing the ground PvP.. it used to be full now its an desert. And there should be more things to do than PvP. Not everyone likes space battles.
But back to the question. The reason why I rarely fill in dilithium is because I am one of those that has none or at least very little of the item called dilithium. The costs for get gear via rep is sky high,.. the fleet gear and costumes are also sky high and to be frank.. I prefer to save for the Zen store, if I am able to keep up with the cost of having a fun time with any rare items. I simply cannot keep up,... I keep saving and its gone just like that to get any kind of sets. I don't even have the space sets yet for any of my rep, its very expensive. I rather buy more character slots to level new character since I like leveling up and experience the missions.
For an example...
VR Advanced Scorpions from the Romulan Rep system; 24,000 Dilithium, 20 DOffs, 2 Perigrine or To'Duj hangers, 20 Warp Coils, 20 Romulan Marks - plus everything it took to get up to Tier III Romulan in the first place.
VR Advanced hanger pets from the Dilithium Store, including Adv. Delta Flyers, Adv. To'Duj and Adv. Orion Slavers, just to name a few; 30,250 dilithium.
6,250 Dilithium more, but less costly overall when the addition costs in DOffs, Commodities, Marks and such, as well as time are factored in.
I don't know about anyone else, but I'd just buy the Dilithium Store Advanced carrier pets - and do. With everything else that are required at some point to be able to access Rep System items like ground gear, space gear, hanger pets... I don't know, maybe I'm just weird, but I think maybe the dilithium costs should be a bit lower still..
^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
And they really need to review their prices.. its just to steep or review their ways of getting dilithium and EC.. and .. to many currency.
nerfing ways to get every thing to fill projects adding new holds and so on so its now never ending and the fleet system is nothing more then a black hole for resources again my 2 EC
system Lord Baal is dead