seems odd that the only 2 sci ships even at tear 6 are the same one from tier 5 and a falshon almost as if cryptic want all sci caps to fly a scimitar dreadnaught.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
Okay I'm going to be that guy. Romulans dont need dedicated science ships when warbirds with singularity powers that are buffed by sci skills already provide the equivalent of a Commander science BOFF, especially when every single fleet ship and T5 c-store ship has the ability to add at least one LtCmdr Sci BOFF. All warbirds ARE science ships. The Federation and Klingons need actual science vessels because their other ships cant fill that role.
Seriously... a T'varo with a Sci captain and LtCmdr Sci BOFF is one of the best science ships in the game. You get free gravwell and LtCmdr sci boff with 4 DHCs and a battlecloak... stop it.
If you cannot see the opportunities that affords, then yeah there is the Ha'nom whale, it gives you singularty powers, two senior Sci BOFF staitons, and still has DHCs and battlecloak. And you get a huge crew so repair times are shortened too.
If that's not enough, you also have two pure-sci Tal-Shiar ships with custom warp cores so you dont have to be annoyed by the power loss.
What exactly do you think you arent getting? You need a T'varo with Sensor Analysis or something?
What exactly do you think you arent getting? You need a T'varo with Sensor Analysis or something?
Yes, actually, that is the point. A Ship with a dedicated CDR Science BOFF, Sensor Analysis, and the Target Subsystems package.
If it doesn't have those three things, it is not a real science ship. Right now there are only three ships that have that. The Ha'nom(and the fleet version), the Mirror Ha'nom, and the Temporal Science Ship. We need actual science ships, not these escorts in science clothing TRIBBLE.
as far as the singularity abilities go, if you use one it locks you out of all of the powers for up to 60 seconds, AND drops all your power levels back down because you lose the singularity charge. If you made any other science captain lose power out of ALL 4 power levels and not have access to 1/2 his powers for 60 seconds they would be raging on the forums about how that is unfair, better yet make that a Tac captain. Those milk drinkers seem to be incapable of doing anything that isn't PEW PEW PEW and get mad whenever someone else has a stronger power than PEW PEW PEW.
Edit: and as far as the Temporal Science Vessel goes, that is just a reskinned Wells. It has a regular warp core, no singularity core at all.
Having a romulan science captain. I'm perfectly fine flying the adapted tal shiar battlecruiser ( big spikey ) . Ok so it lacks subsystem targetting . Who cares .. that ability is only usefull if your running beams . And most of the time they hardly if ever last long enough to do anything meaningfull in bringing a subsystem offline .
I have no problems with a fleet T'varo or fleet Dhelan for a sci scourt . with singularity powers plus a lt cmdr slot I can use for science . I can make that work in a heart beat. Sensor anaylisis is a nice feature but it's hardly game breaking . Sides alot of science powers sadly just aren't that good , Not all of them but a large portion of them. So not having a so called dedicated sci ship isn't a big issue.
I've flown the temporal sci ship an it's neat , an all but it doesn't bring to the table the things I prefer in a ship. An if outfitted with the temporal warfare kit etc , it takes years to solo kill something . in a group using focus fire , that's a different story .
If I want to fly an OP sci ship I've got fed sci captains with vesta's for that . :P
I'm currently trying to make a Tulwar work as a "Sci-naught" but it is still a work in progress. the BOff stations being carbon copies on the Scimitar pack is another example of lazy Cryptic being lazy.
I'm currently trying to make a Tulwar work as a "Sci-naught" but it is still a work in progress. the BOff stations being carbon copies on the Scimitar pack is another example of lazy Cryptic being lazy.
There is nothing lazy about it, Cryptic's maintaining some form of balance with that monster of a Warbird.
Yes, actually, that is the point. A Ship with a dedicated CDR Science BOFF, Sensor Analysis, and the Target Subsystems package.
If it doesn't have those three things, it is not a real science ship. Right now there are only three ships that have that. The Ha'nom(and the fleet version), the Mirror Ha'nom, and the Temporal Science Ship. We need actual science ships, not these escorts in science clothing TRIBBLE.
You have a very narrow definition of what a Science ship is... That is your problem.
5 singularity abilities and a LtComm sci boff gives you a lot of Science magic to throw around. A Ha'nom has a grand total of 12 science abilities in exchange for SA (which takes too long to stack) and TargSubX (which is stupid outside of FlwC builds).
That's the Romulan science vessel right there. 5 singularity abilities in exchange for 5 useless abilities.
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
I agree, if there were some way to please people who cry about powercreep and romulans being overpowered while still giving new content, Devs would have figured it out a long time ago. Maybe adding the Cruiser commands will help appease the people who are griping, since the Romulans don't get those, at all. but then again i'm sure most of the people who are crying foul fly escorts.
This thread is not asking for advice on a Science build for Tulwar, T'Varo, Dhelan or other Tac based ship.
It's not asking which ship and build is best for DPS.
It's asking for a Romulan Warbird - complete with singularity core and battle cloak - that has a Cmdr Sci Boff, SubS Targeting, sensor analysis, sci ship shield modifier, etc. As in, a Romulan Science Warbird.
Other ship classes and sci ships in the other factions - even if it's severly limited - offer a choice when it comes to Boff seating (ie ships). Rom science simply does not have this, not even in the form of a single ensign level universal boff station.
Where is the universal boff slot on the fleet Ha'nom?
Lock Box ships do not count for any faction for the sole reason that their availability is theoretically limited.
As for 'be patient', go talk to the Klingons about that...
First off, you didn't start this thread, so who are you to magically know if the original poster wants suggestions or not. There are no end-game Romulan science vessels, so we're giving suggestions to cope until there are dedicated science vessels.
Whining and berating people trying to give helpful advice isn't adding any content to this thread.
As the OP here, I can say I didn't ask for tips or build ideas. THAT being said I appreciate the ideas, as they helped me to modify the Tulwar into the Sci-mitar. The initial desire of the post was to try and get some attention from Devs or someone who can pass that info on to them. I appreciate good advice, but sometimes people got a little pushy on presenting builds as alternatives or seeming to flame wanting a Science Ship that wasn't something else first.
This has been great discussion so far though, lets try to keep it going.
Frankly, I too find the lack of science Warbirds somewhat sad for Romulans. Especially when I always got the feeling from the shows that combat science was basically the Romulan's "hat" so to speak. They developed things like high yield plasma torpedoes and cloaking devices because they were resource weaker than the other two main factions and so used their "smarts" to keep on the cutting edge.
I think Cryptic should be looking to add ships like this:
Just read the description it practically describes STO science boff abilities on this ship, and the inter-phase cloak would be epic fun for pvp (admittedly a bit overpowered, but where is the fun in NOT being overpowered ).
Frankly, I too find the lack of science Warbirds somewhat sad for Romulans. Especially when I always got the feeling from the shows that combat science was basically the Romulan's "hat" so to speak. They developed things like high yield plasma torpedoes and cloaking devices because they were resource weaker than the other two main factions and so used their "smarts" to keep on the cutting edge.
I think Cryptic should be looking to add ships like this:
Just read the description it practically describes STO science boff abilities on this ship, and the inter-phase cloak would be epic fun for pvp (admittedly a bit overpowered, but where is the fun in NOT being overpowered ).
not so much fun since the warbird retrofit has that. its a godmode.
not so much fun since the warbird retrofit has that. its a godmode.
No, it has advanced battle cloak, lets it fire torpedoes while cloaked (well briefly uncloaking then cloaking again with no cool down). PHASING cloak allows you to go though solid objects. Like moons... :cool:
I think they will release a Carrier and a Science Vessel soon enough, This is a new faction and they haven't released everything yet.
Unfortunately that doesn't fly. You can't expect players to stick around just in case they might one day address this problem. They've given no indication they will and the Klingon faction has been around for years and doesn't have anywhere near the selection of ships available to the Federation.
Personally, I'd love to see a full Romulan science ship that isn't ha'nom or ha'apax based (no offense to the artists, those ships just aren't my thing).
I agree. They're ugly.
If you have bought the haakona then those parts are available for the ha'anom and can be used to drastically improve its appearance. Try:
Hull - Haakona
Nacelles - Ha'apax Type 1
Wings - Ha'apax
Pattern - Lacerta (for all)
Colors - E8
Material - Romulan Type 1
Windows - Type 1
I see a lot of talk about Tac captains being better in a Tac ship, Engi better in an Engi ship, and Science better in a Science ship.
But is not the only functional difference between them the 5 or so space specific abilities you get as a captain (Photonic fleet, Nadion inversion, Fire on my mark, etc) and the two traits unique to each one?
That's not an insignificant difference.
The tactical and engineering captain special abilities are unaffected by ship type but this isn't true for the science one. The trait for photonic fleet reduces its cooldown when you use science abilities (cooldown 10 secs). To make the most of that you need lots of science abilities equipped.
You have a very narrow definition of what a Science ship is... That is your problem.
Let's try this on for size.
How would you and all the other tac-happies feel if the devs changed all the tactical ships to have fewer tac console slots and bridge officer slots? Would you still consider them tactical ships?
It is nice that there are a few warbirds with universal bo slots but without a universal commander slot and with tactical console arrangements, those are not science vessels.
First off, you didn't start this thread, so who are you to magically know if the original poster wants suggestions or not. There are no end-game Romulan science vessels, so we're giving suggestions to cope until there are dedicated science vessels.
Whining and berating people trying to give helpful advice isn't adding any content to this thread.
Right, I didn't start the thread, but the inference is pretty clear and giving advice for ship builds that aren't science ships in a thread entitled 'Romulan Science love' that opens by saying we need more Romulan science ships isn't adding much either.
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Right, I didn't start the thread, but the inference is pretty clear and giving advice for ship builds that aren't science ships in a thread entitled 'Romulan Science love' that opens by saying we need more Romulan science ships isn't adding much either.
Some of those offering advice for non-sci ship builds might genuinely be trying to be helpful. It's not the solution the OP or many of us want but might help us make the best of a bad situation.
Some of those offering the same advice do so in a snarky, "you don't need any more science vessels" kind of way. There are unfortunately many such posts in these forums.
Looking at aevlom's initial advice re the t'varo I think they're probably the former and not part of the I-hate-Romulan-scientists gang.
Some of those offering advice for non-sci ship builds might genuinely be trying to be helpful. It's not the solution the OP or many of us want but might help us make the best of a bad situation.
Some of those offering the same advice do so in a snarky, "you don't need any more science vessels" kind of way. There are unfortunately many such posts in these forums.
Looking at aevlom's initial advice re the t'varo I think they're probably the former and not part of the I-hate-Romulan-scientists gang.
Yes, in my experience, you can make a decent Sci-torp setup with a T'Varo.
Yes, in my experience, you can make a decent Sci-torp setup with a T'Varo.
The advantage of the T'varo Retrofit is that you can get away with an AUX heavy power setting to support the Science that a T'varo Torpedoboat is capable of without seriously compromising survivability. The T'varo Retrofit can function effectively as an "almost" Science Ship ... particularly if you get the T'varo set consoles in order to deploy the Destabilized Plasma Torpdeo at a cluster of adversaries that have been herded up together by Gravity Well I and Scramble Sensors I, which can somewhat impressively turn hostile ships into chain reaction popcorn (plasma flavored butter not included).
The "nice" thing about the T'varo Retrofit as a Torpedoboat/Stealth Bomber is that it isn't a One Trick Pony (or at least, it shouldn't be). The "bad" side to that, for Science at least, is that you just don't get a whole lot of BOff slots for Science Skills ... or at least not as many as a "true" Science ship would have. Another downside is that you pretty much wind up "sacrificing" your Engineering Consoles to the T'varo 2 Set and one other Universal Console, just so you can (still) have 3 Science Consoles and 3 Tactical Consoles. So "adequate" and serviceable, but not incredibly impressive.
I'm working on a pair of builds adapting a similar idea to the Scimitar's Tulwar variant. Specifically a TorpWell and a "Juicer" (power drain), neither are ready yet although because of the crystaline reward the drainer is much closer. We shall see as good DOffs are expensive. That being said, I'd love to see Cryptic add more dedicated science vessels to the game, or even a carrier like the Kar'Fi (which I am liking on my KDF toon right now) but you might have guessed that because I did start the thread. It wasn't so much a call for help as much as a plead to the Devs to hook us up with some more science ships.
OK, Cruisers got their Upgrade, so Sci Ships are next (i hope).
That would be an excellent moment to introduce a dedicated Romulan Science Vessel. (and imho...*if* we ever see a Rom Sci Ship i hope it looks more elegant, with a smaller "hitbox", like the "Shadow" from Armada 2, and not as "crude" as the ha'*something* ships or the timeship)
Beta, LTA, CE, Multiple preorder Versions, all Addon Packs except AoY, nearly all KDF/Rom and ~50% of all Fedships, over 25 LockboxShips, Endurer of Atari's "Year of Hell", but...
So "adequate" and serviceable, but not incredibly impressive.
I wouldn't even call it adequate. It's just the closest thing Romulans have to an alternative to the Ha'nom.
Eg. for STFs I like to take along tyken's rift 3 and gravity well 1. The former is handy for dropping the shields on borg cubes. Also not terrible with other ships if dropped after the gravity well.
The T'varo only has a lt com and com station available. That means at best I could take tyken's rift 1. And there's less science abilities all round. The T'varo obviously has a lot more firepower instead but it's... well not a science ship.
OK, Cruisers got their Upgrade, so Sci Ships are next (i hope).
ships or the timeship)
Someone reported in another thread that the next Romulan ship will probably be a sci, but there's several non-Romulan ships ahead of it on their to-do list.
OK, Cruisers got their Upgrade, so Sci Ships are next (i hope).
That would be an excellent moment to introduce a dedicated Romulan Science Vessel. (and imho...*if* we ever see a Rom Sci Ship i hope it looks more elegant, with a smaller "hitbox", like the "Shadow" from Armada 2, and not as "crude" as the ha'*something* ships or the timeship)
Well I think the recent rebuff of a lot of the science abilities might have been the science improvement. Who knows though, there was talk of possibly adding a second deflector since most of the science ships do have visuals for 2 deflector arrays. Also in lore many of the science vessels have 2 deflectors.
Comments
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
Seriously... a T'varo with a Sci captain and LtCmdr Sci BOFF is one of the best science ships in the game. You get free gravwell and LtCmdr sci boff with 4 DHCs and a battlecloak... stop it.
If you cannot see the opportunities that affords, then yeah there is the Ha'nom whale, it gives you singularty powers, two senior Sci BOFF staitons, and still has DHCs and battlecloak. And you get a huge crew so repair times are shortened too.
If that's not enough, you also have two pure-sci Tal-Shiar ships with custom warp cores so you dont have to be annoyed by the power loss.
What exactly do you think you arent getting? You need a T'varo with Sensor Analysis or something?
Yes, actually, that is the point. A Ship with a dedicated CDR Science BOFF, Sensor Analysis, and the Target Subsystems package.
If it doesn't have those three things, it is not a real science ship. Right now there are only three ships that have that. The Ha'nom(and the fleet version), the Mirror Ha'nom, and the Temporal Science Ship. We need actual science ships, not these escorts in science clothing TRIBBLE.
Edit: and as far as the Temporal Science Vessel goes, that is just a reskinned Wells. It has a regular warp core, no singularity core at all.
I have no problems with a fleet T'varo or fleet Dhelan for a sci scourt . with singularity powers plus a lt cmdr slot I can use for science . I can make that work in a heart beat. Sensor anaylisis is a nice feature but it's hardly game breaking . Sides alot of science powers sadly just aren't that good , Not all of them but a large portion of them. So not having a so called dedicated sci ship isn't a big issue.
I've flown the temporal sci ship an it's neat , an all but it doesn't bring to the table the things I prefer in a ship. An if outfitted with the temporal warfare kit etc , it takes years to solo kill something . in a group using focus fire , that's a different story .
If I want to fly an OP sci ship I've got fed sci captains with vesta's for that . :P
There is nothing lazy about it, Cryptic's maintaining some form of balance with that monster of a Warbird.
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Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
You have a very narrow definition of what a Science ship is... That is your problem.
5 singularity abilities and a LtComm sci boff gives you a lot of Science magic to throw around. A Ha'nom has a grand total of 12 science abilities in exchange for SA (which takes too long to stack) and TargSubX (which is stupid outside of FlwC builds).
That's the Romulan science vessel right there. 5 singularity abilities in exchange for 5 useless abilities.
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Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
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Have a singularity core, have combat cloak.
1 or 2 more would be fine + a full carrier.
But honestly KDF need new ships before fed or rommies get a new one.
My character Tsin'xing
People would complain about something either way.
My character Tsin'xing
First off, you didn't start this thread, so who are you to magically know if the original poster wants suggestions or not. There are no end-game Romulan science vessels, so we're giving suggestions to cope until there are dedicated science vessels.
Whining and berating people trying to give helpful advice isn't adding any content to this thread.
This has been great discussion so far though, lets try to keep it going.
I think Cryptic should be looking to add ships like this:
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Shadow_class
Just read the description it practically describes STO science boff abilities on this ship, and the inter-phase cloak would be epic fun for pvp (admittedly a bit overpowered, but where is the fun in NOT being overpowered
not so much fun since the warbird retrofit has that. its a godmode.
My character Tsin'xing
No, it has advanced battle cloak, lets it fire torpedoes while cloaked (well briefly uncloaking then cloaking again with no cool down). PHASING cloak allows you to go though solid objects. Like moons... :cool:
Unfortunately that doesn't fly. You can't expect players to stick around just in case they might one day address this problem. They've given no indication they will and the Klingon faction has been around for years and doesn't have anywhere near the selection of ships available to the Federation.
I agree. They're ugly.
If you have bought the haakona then those parts are available for the ha'anom and can be used to drastically improve its appearance. Try:
Hull - Haakona
Nacelles - Ha'apax Type 1
Wings - Ha'apax
Pattern - Lacerta (for all)
Colors - E8
Material - Romulan Type 1
Windows - Type 1
And you end up with a nice looking Ha'nom.
That's not an insignificant difference.
The tactical and engineering captain special abilities are unaffected by ship type but this isn't true for the science one. The trait for photonic fleet reduces its cooldown when you use science abilities (cooldown 10 secs). To make the most of that you need lots of science abilities equipped.
Let's try this on for size.
How would you and all the other tac-happies feel if the devs changed all the tactical ships to have fewer tac console slots and bridge officer slots? Would you still consider them tactical ships?
It is nice that there are a few warbirds with universal bo slots but without a universal commander slot and with tactical console arrangements, those are not science vessels.
Right, I didn't start the thread, but the inference is pretty clear and giving advice for ship builds that aren't science ships in a thread entitled 'Romulan Science love' that opens by saying we need more Romulan science ships isn't adding much either.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Some of those offering advice for non-sci ship builds might genuinely be trying to be helpful. It's not the solution the OP or many of us want but might help us make the best of a bad situation.
Some of those offering the same advice do so in a snarky, "you don't need any more science vessels" kind of way. There are unfortunately many such posts in these forums.
Looking at aevlom's initial advice re the t'varo I think they're probably the former and not part of the I-hate-Romulan-scientists gang.
My character Tsin'xing
Yeah I've tried it and it's ok. Possibly better for soloing than the ha'nom but I definitely prefer the ha'nom with its sci commander slot for STFs.
The advantage of the T'varo Retrofit is that you can get away with an AUX heavy power setting to support the Science that a T'varo Torpedoboat is capable of without seriously compromising survivability. The T'varo Retrofit can function effectively as an "almost" Science Ship ... particularly if you get the T'varo set consoles in order to deploy the Destabilized Plasma Torpdeo at a cluster of adversaries that have been herded up together by Gravity Well I and Scramble Sensors I, which can somewhat impressively turn hostile ships into chain reaction popcorn (plasma flavored butter not included).
The "nice" thing about the T'varo Retrofit as a Torpedoboat/Stealth Bomber is that it isn't a One Trick Pony (or at least, it shouldn't be). The "bad" side to that, for Science at least, is that you just don't get a whole lot of BOff slots for Science Skills ... or at least not as many as a "true" Science ship would have. Another downside is that you pretty much wind up "sacrificing" your Engineering Consoles to the T'varo 2 Set and one other Universal Console, just so you can (still) have 3 Science Consoles and 3 Tactical Consoles. So "adequate" and serviceable, but not incredibly impressive.
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground
That would be an excellent moment to introduce a dedicated Romulan Science Vessel. (and imho...*if* we ever see a Rom Sci Ship i hope it looks more elegant, with a smaller "hitbox", like the "Shadow" from Armada 2, and not as "crude" as the ha'*something* ships or the timeship)
I wouldn't even call it adequate. It's just the closest thing Romulans have to an alternative to the Ha'nom.
Eg. for STFs I like to take along tyken's rift 3 and gravity well 1. The former is handy for dropping the shields on borg cubes. Also not terrible with other ships if dropped after the gravity well.
The T'varo only has a lt com and com station available. That means at best I could take tyken's rift 1. And there's less science abilities all round. The T'varo obviously has a lot more firepower instead but it's... well not a science ship.
Someone reported in another thread that the next Romulan ship will probably be a sci, but there's several non-Romulan ships ahead of it on their to-do list.
Well I think the recent rebuff of a lot of the science abilities might have been the science improvement. Who knows though, there was talk of possibly adding a second deflector since most of the science ships do have visuals for 2 deflector arrays. Also in lore many of the science vessels have 2 deflectors.