Some of those offering advice for non-sci ship builds might genuinely be trying to be helpful. It's not the solution the OP or many of us want but might help us make the best of a bad situation.
Some of those offering the same advice do so in a snarky, "you don't need any more science vessels" kind of way. There are unfortunately many such posts in these forums.
Looking at aevlom's initial advice re the t'varo I think they're probably the former and not part of the I-hate-Romulan-scientists gang.
Well I guess I owe aevlom an apology. So here it is: Sorry dude. Sometimes it's difficult to separate the genuine form the snark.
A lot of the advice is also very good.
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
What is actually wrong with the Ha'nom? It's a sci ship with 4 (5 on fleet) sci consoles, a battle cloak, and cannons.
The problem is the size of the ship. Its as big as a Vo'Quv. But since it moves around very quickly it feels like its actually a regular sized ship, so the depth-of-field (imagined against a 2D playing surface) is always wrong and you always end up flying past your target because you think they are far away when you are already on top of them. Its just a pain to fly. The Ha'feh suffers from this too, and so does the Ar'Kif--people think its a small ship because of the 16 turn-rate but its as big as a Fed assault cruiser.
Well I guess I owe aevlom an apology. So here it is: Sorry dude. Sometimes it's difficult to separate the genuine form the snark.
A lot of the advice is also very good.
No worries.
I think I'll actually keep flying the T'Varo even when/if we get dedicated RA science ships, that ship is so much fun to fly with a science captain.
Seriously, do half of the tac captains have to chime saying "get an escort its the same"?!?! Would you be content if the only escort we had was the three versions of the ha'feh. I seriously doubt it. Yes we have ONE proper science whale. Having a second choice that is smaller and more manueverable would be quite nice and is long overdue.
Seriously, do half of the tac captains have to chime saying "get an escort its the same"?!?! Would you be content if the only escort we had was the three versions of the ha'feh. I seriously doubt it. Yes we have ONE proper science whale. Having a second choice that is smaller and more manueverable would be quite nice and is long overdue.
I honestly don't think the Ha'nom is that bad.
A Fleet Ha'nom Guardian Warbird has battle cloak, cannons, two tac slots, 3 tac consoles, and 5 sci consoles. Put plasma damage boosting embassy sci consoles in there, put drain abilities in the sci slots, and it'd rock pretty hard.
Romulans need a ship with a Cmdr Science BOff slot. I don't see how this can be argued against. Though existing Warbirds offer an incredible amount of flexibility and Singularity powers are a moderate substitute, the lack of a Cmdr Sci BOff seat on anything that isn'ta slow-as-hell cruiser-esque ship is a clear and painful omission.
The Republic needs something faster, more Vesta-like. Something with a 3/3 weapons layout, something with Sensor Analysis, maybe even able to mount cannons ala Vesta. But as a step to balance it a bit, I think it should lose the built-in subsystem targeting. That's not a major sacrifice, nor is it intended to be - just a small price to pay to help avoid it having too much flexibility.
I don't care how Sci-like you can finagle the various Escorts the Romulans have, that does not make them Science vessels nor does it relieve the need for a Cmdr Sci BOff slot on a more agile ship option. Just one ship would be fine.
The Ha'nam is every bit as good as the Ha'feh, both fine ships. How many people prefer something other than the He'feh though? I personally do not see many He'fehs at all, the other ships are simply more fun. We need the same for Science.
I don't care how Sci-like you can finagle the various Escorts the Romulans have, that does not make them Science vessels nor does it relieve the need for a Cmdr Sci BOff slot on a more agile ship option. Just one ship would be fine.
THIS! Something like a Vesta or a Reconnaissance Science Vessel would be perfect.
I do like the Ha'nom but something smaller and more nimble is very much needed. Currently I have the fleet Dhelan, and though I can equip 1 or 2 offensive science abilities, it is nothing like flying a science vessel.
In a proper science ship I can GW, tyken's rift, and energy syphon some bad guys while still keeping TBR handy in case I need to push dudes away from something. In a sciscort I can do half of that AT MOST. Turns out it is like flying a tactical vessel without tactical abilities and without science abilities. It is a fun diversion, but I rolled a science toon to play with science powers and only having one ship to choose from is seriously lame.
The worst part is that they have released several escorts and cruisers since LOR's launch, with no thought to science, who started off with the least amount of choices.
They are definitely either too big or badly (3-D) modeled though. The depth of field can be a real issue when trying to effectively use ship centered abilities such as Scattering Field, Charged particle Burst and Photonic Shockwave. Part of the problem is that the ship itself seems to take up half the range of those abilities. I've got no issue with the boff seating or the stats and turn rate though. I just want my decision to fly a Romulan Sci ship to actually involve a decision beyond ship class, such as which sci ship.
There's a very strong case for the KDF deserving a new sci ship before Roms get another, but then again, it's also true that the KDF didn't recently have 6 months of development from the ground up put into it only to find that going 10 levels without a tac ship was apparently so insufferable that yet another Romulan tac ship had to be released.
I get that the D'deridex is not everyone's cup of tea, but a sci ship could have probably solved the problem that is supposed to have resulted in the release of the Ar'kala/Ar'kif just as well. As much as I like the Tactical Warbird Carrier Retrofit, probably soon to be Fleet Tactical Carrier Warbird Retrofit (wth cryptic? shorter names please :P), at the precise moment it was released, there was already a highly disproportionate ratio of new (with LoR) Rom Tac ships and little, if any, need for another.
I think that is the root of a lot, if not most of the sci ship related frustration we see expressed on the forums, especially amid all the 'RomTacScorts Online' talk.
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
I have to question what the real issue is. Is it a need for a "real" science ship, or is it not knowing how a science ship runs?
Science ships should be running high auxiliary and ripping stuff up with their rascally scientific voodoo. Science ships don't do real high damage with their weapons. They have less of them. They are also having to switch constantly between power settings or finding a happy medium on a power setting, unless they are a Vesta using Aux DHCs. Anyone flying a sci ship can attest to the increased effort to set up attacks and the increased time it takes to finish fights. Sci ship captains have a very high skill point investment to be effective at either crowd control, countermeasures, debuffs or disables, or healing. Countermeasures or jamming (mez) is nearly useless in STO so toss that out. Crowd Control is only useful if it can keep up with DPS and make up for lack of weapons or if it increases survivabilty by taking enemies out of the fight until the captain can take some out and reduce the number they are fighting.
The real issue here is the game structure for science. I fly a Ha'nom sci ship. It is slow, but largely the same as any other science ship except the Vesta. I am forcing myself to keep flying the Ha'nom as I find it boring unless I am teamed and able to offer sciency wizardlyness. I would be better off in a carrier or T'varo. So the problem does not seem to actually be the Romans need a science ship. The problem is the science ship and class mechanic.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
The real issue is that mere months into the game after launch, a vast amount of players with tactical captains flying escorts whined so much about "over-powered science abilities" that the devs nerfed them into near uselessness.
Here we still stand today, regardless of any "tweaks" we've gotten over the years.
when cruiser captains could no be bothered to turn of autofire when a sci ship pops fbp ..... next step..... VM can disable shields ... big nono :eek: and it goes donhill from there.
not to dwell on the past.... this is how sci skills stand now imho: Most of the skills are nerfed to uselessness to squeeze a little bit of juice from them ppl need to add doffs. but that has issues too IE deflector doff has no effect on TB and ES.
to get back on topic, there is nothing wrong with the romulan sci ship, ok ... it could use a bit of agility, but the main issue is that sci skills or maybe the whole mechanics need a serous overhaul.
In many posts I read that ppl comparing sci ships to one of the vesta variants, lrsv and rssv are as agile as the vesta something in that range would be more than fine even if it has no hangar bay.
Has anyone yet tried the new Voth science ship with a Romulan science captain?
It looks like it may be just the thing some people were looking for, albeit having to go to the extra effort trying to snag one.
Has anyone yet tried the new Voth science ship with a Romulan science captain?
It looks like it may be just the thing some people were looking for, albeit having to go to the extra effort trying to snag one.
Im on the fence about it, I have the lobi and have been desperately awaiting a science vessel romulans can use (good thing we got that tactical warbird earlier)
my main issue is,
A I don't care for the look of it
B Its not romulan
C soon as I spend the lobi on it cryptic will announce a vesta like vessel for romulans......
im very confused on which way to go...hold out and hope for season 14 when romulans get a science vessel (for a faction that is deeply rooted in science) or just get it now...altho id rather have the temporal ship...its pretty much the same but at least has a more romulan look to it
I only mentioned it because the Voth science vessel has a cloaking device. Not a battle cloak, and I believe that you need consoles for it, but a cloaking device nonetheless.
Im on the fence about it, I have the lobi and have been desperately awaiting a science vessel romulans can use (good thing we got that tactical warbird earlier)
my main issue is,
A I don't care for the look of it
B Its not romulan
C soon as I spend the lobi on it cryptic will announce a vesta like vessel for romulans......
im very confused on which way to go...hold out and hope for season 14 when romulans get a science vessel (for a faction that is deeply rooted in science) or just get it now...altho id rather have the temporal ship...its pretty much the same but at least has a more romulan look to it
Already confirmed via podcast interview that the next Romulan ship is a "Vesta-Quality" Science Vessel, and that it should be available by end of 13 or early 14.
Already confirmed via podcast interview that the next Romulan ship is a "Vesta-Quality" Science Vessel, and that it should be available by end of 13 or early 14.
im very confused on which way to go...hold out and hope for season 14 when romulans get a science vessel (for a faction that is deeply rooted in science) or just get it now...altho id rather have the temporal ship...its pretty much the same but at least has a more romulan look to it
With no carrier and no sci ships I turned to the recluse. It's perfectly functional. A fine ship. But even with the reman shield (looks very cool) and sporting scorpion fighters I don't feel very Romulan. And that is a bit of a buzzkill.
My advice, especially with a rom sci ship in the works, is pass on the voth one.
Already confirmed via podcast interview that the next Romulan ship is a "Vesta-Quality" Science Vessel, and that it should be available by end of 13 or early 14.
Already confirmed via podcast interview that the next Romulan ship is a "Vesta-Quality" Science Vessel, and that it should be available by end of 13 or early 14.
that is a hell of a wait tho...we could be sitting for another 6 months for something that should have already came out....
but since we like to have tactical with our tactical ships it would be fitting that the "science" vessel comes out with 4 tac consoles 3 sci consoles and 3 eng consoles and a commander tactical bridge slot.....forgive me but I have no faith in the design and implementation of anything cryptic studios does as of late
altho on a hopeful note...I was hoping/thinking that the Christmas ship will indeed be a generic universal science ship for all factions
last winter was a cruiser with tac like abilities, summer was a tac ship that I think most parked in their garages now, and every freebie ship to date (minus the imo ugly carrier we just got) has not been science in theme...
im still debating the damn palisade in the mean time...it does have a nice bridge and console layout regardless....
Already confirmed via podcast interview that the next Romulan ship is a "Vesta-Quality" Science Vessel, and that it should be available by end of 13 or early 14.
Well that is just great news. Maybe the KDF will get one too.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
It has already made it into the game as the "Commander's Gig" also known as the veteran shuttle. That I am happy about. What angers me is that yes, the model was modified and used for the Science Ship (called Apnex in Apocrypha) in "The Next Phase" (TNG). The visual Department specifically used forced perspective to make the ship look like it was about 1/3 the size of the Galaxy-class U.S.S. Enterprise-D. I fail to see why they cannot add that ship. So there would be two ships in the game that look the same just scaled differently. Big freaking deal.
They decided it was a terrible looking ship, which it is, so they released it as a shuttle variant.
Geko has stated they see the need for more Rom Sci ships, so they are coming eventually.
I too want a new Rom Sci vessel..as long as its not a Har'nom:(...it looks so...flat but its something at least, I have a Tavaro myself so im sticking with that..for now
Comments
Well I guess I owe aevlom an apology. So here it is: Sorry dude. Sometimes it's difficult to separate the genuine form the snark.
A lot of the advice is also very good.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
I don't get what could ruin that, but then it's been ages since I looked at sci ships.
No worries.
I think I'll actually keep flying the T'Varo even when/if we get dedicated RA science ships, that ship is so much fun to fly with a science captain.
I honestly don't think the Ha'nom is that bad.
A Fleet Ha'nom Guardian Warbird has battle cloak, cannons, two tac slots, 3 tac consoles, and 5 sci consoles. Put plasma damage boosting embassy sci consoles in there, put drain abilities in the sci slots, and it'd rock pretty hard.
The Republic needs something faster, more Vesta-like. Something with a 3/3 weapons layout, something with Sensor Analysis, maybe even able to mount cannons ala Vesta. But as a step to balance it a bit, I think it should lose the built-in subsystem targeting. That's not a major sacrifice, nor is it intended to be - just a small price to pay to help avoid it having too much flexibility.
I don't care how Sci-like you can finagle the various Escorts the Romulans have, that does not make them Science vessels nor does it relieve the need for a Cmdr Sci BOff slot on a more agile ship option. Just one ship would be fine.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
The Ha'nam is every bit as good as the Ha'feh, both fine ships. How many people prefer something other than the He'feh though? I personally do not see many He'fehs at all, the other ships are simply more fun. We need the same for Science.
THIS! Something like a Vesta or a Reconnaissance Science Vessel would be perfect.
I do like the Ha'nom but something smaller and more nimble is very much needed. Currently I have the fleet Dhelan, and though I can equip 1 or 2 offensive science abilities, it is nothing like flying a science vessel.
In a proper science ship I can GW, tyken's rift, and energy syphon some bad guys while still keeping TBR handy in case I need to push dudes away from something. In a sciscort I can do half of that AT MOST. Turns out it is like flying a tactical vessel without tactical abilities and without science abilities. It is a fun diversion, but I rolled a science toon to play with science powers and only having one ship to choose from is seriously lame.
The worst part is that they have released several escorts and cruisers since LOR's launch, with no thought to science, who started off with the least amount of choices.
They are definitely either too big or badly (3-D) modeled though. The depth of field can be a real issue when trying to effectively use ship centered abilities such as Scattering Field, Charged particle Burst and Photonic Shockwave. Part of the problem is that the ship itself seems to take up half the range of those abilities. I've got no issue with the boff seating or the stats and turn rate though. I just want my decision to fly a Romulan Sci ship to actually involve a decision beyond ship class, such as which sci ship.
There's a very strong case for the KDF deserving a new sci ship before Roms get another, but then again, it's also true that the KDF didn't recently have 6 months of development from the ground up put into it only to find that going 10 levels without a tac ship was apparently so insufferable that yet another Romulan tac ship had to be released.
I get that the D'deridex is not everyone's cup of tea, but a sci ship could have probably solved the problem that is supposed to have resulted in the release of the Ar'kala/Ar'kif just as well. As much as I like the Tactical Warbird Carrier Retrofit, probably soon to be Fleet Tactical Carrier Warbird Retrofit (wth cryptic? shorter names please :P), at the precise moment it was released, there was already a highly disproportionate ratio of new (with LoR) Rom Tac ships and little, if any, need for another.
I think that is the root of a lot, if not most of the sci ship related frustration we see expressed on the forums, especially amid all the 'RomTacScorts Online' talk.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Well be happy because as I posted here in this thread a few days ago:
I just hope it is true and that we don't get stuck with some BS that won't be worth equipping (would not be the first time)
Science ships should be running high auxiliary and ripping stuff up with their rascally scientific voodoo. Science ships don't do real high damage with their weapons. They have less of them. They are also having to switch constantly between power settings or finding a happy medium on a power setting, unless they are a Vesta using Aux DHCs. Anyone flying a sci ship can attest to the increased effort to set up attacks and the increased time it takes to finish fights. Sci ship captains have a very high skill point investment to be effective at either crowd control, countermeasures, debuffs or disables, or healing. Countermeasures or jamming (mez) is nearly useless in STO so toss that out. Crowd Control is only useful if it can keep up with DPS and make up for lack of weapons or if it increases survivabilty by taking enemies out of the fight until the captain can take some out and reduce the number they are fighting.
The real issue here is the game structure for science. I fly a Ha'nom sci ship. It is slow, but largely the same as any other science ship except the Vesta. I am forcing myself to keep flying the Ha'nom as I find it boring unless I am teamed and able to offer sciency wizardlyness. I would be better off in a carrier or T'varo. So the problem does not seem to actually be the Romans need a science ship. The problem is the science ship and class mechanic.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
The real issue is there's only one proper science ship to fly Rom-side. I don't see how that's at all unclear here.
Which isn't to say the point you raise is untrue or invalid, it's just only marginally related to the issue at hand in this thread.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
Here we still stand today, regardless of any "tweaks" we've gotten over the years.
not to dwell on the past.... this is how sci skills stand now imho: Most of the skills are nerfed to uselessness to squeeze a little bit of juice from them ppl need to add doffs. but that has issues too IE deflector doff has no effect on TB and ES.
to get back on topic, there is nothing wrong with the romulan sci ship, ok ... it could use a bit of agility, but the main issue is that sci skills or maybe the whole mechanics need a serous overhaul.
In many posts I read that ppl comparing sci ships to one of the vesta variants, lrsv and rssv are as agile as the vesta something in that range would be more than fine even if it has no hangar bay.
It looks like it may be just the thing some people were looking for, albeit having to go to the extra effort trying to snag one.
Im on the fence about it, I have the lobi and have been desperately awaiting a science vessel romulans can use (good thing we got that tactical warbird earlier)
my main issue is,
A I don't care for the look of it
B Its not romulan
C soon as I spend the lobi on it cryptic will announce a vesta like vessel for romulans......
im very confused on which way to go...hold out and hope for season 14 when romulans get a science vessel (for a faction that is deeply rooted in science) or just get it now...altho id rather have the temporal ship...its pretty much the same but at least has a more romulan look to it
Already confirmed via podcast interview that the next Romulan ship is a "Vesta-Quality" Science Vessel, and that it should be available by end of 13 or early 14.
Oooh that would be nice.
With no carrier and no sci ships I turned to the recluse. It's perfectly functional. A fine ship. But even with the reman shield (looks very cool) and sporting scorpion fighters I don't feel very Romulan. And that is a bit of a buzzkill.
My advice, especially with a rom sci ship in the works, is pass on the voth one.
Seriously? 12-18 months? WTF!
Last time I checked it is the year 2013 so let me correct your statement:
Also, a new science vessel for Romulans would be so awesome, I hope it's true!
that is a hell of a wait tho...we could be sitting for another 6 months for something that should have already came out....
but since we like to have tactical with our tactical ships it would be fitting that the "science" vessel comes out with 4 tac consoles 3 sci consoles and 3 eng consoles and a commander tactical bridge slot.....forgive me but I have no faith in the design and implementation of anything cryptic studios does as of late
altho on a hopeful note...I was hoping/thinking that the Christmas ship will indeed be a generic universal science ship for all factions
last winter was a cruiser with tac like abilities, summer was a tac ship that I think most parked in their garages now, and every freebie ship to date (minus the imo ugly carrier we just got) has not been science in theme...
im still debating the damn palisade in the mean time...it does have a nice bridge and console layout regardless....
DOH!!!!!!!
Nothin to see here move along
Well that is just great news. Maybe the KDF will get one too.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
They decided it was a terrible looking ship, which it is, so they released it as a shuttle variant.
Geko has stated they see the need for more Rom Sci ships, so they are coming eventually.